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Now Ye're Talking - To A Man With 2 Mothers

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    #62
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    My bad, sorry!

    I took my biological mothers surname when I was born. Uh, I never really asked why the reason was, I just grew up like that. For example, my own children took my surname and not their mothers. I guess it was just decided at some point, or maybe because it was easier.

    Thanks for getting back to me!

    Yeah I was thinking that.

    It's just even with straight couples now some of them have their children take both surnames so I just said I'd ask anyway.


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    #63
    Escapees
    Registered Users Posts: 600 ✭✭✭Escapees


    Thanks Sonic2k for replying earlier - you must be pretty tired at this stage from thinking about and answering all our odd questions!! Anyway, thanks again.


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    #64
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    1. Do you think all children (from adopted/surrogacy/one night stands! whatever) have a legal right to know who their biological parents are. I'm not specifically asking in terms of 'medical family history' , that too, but in general?

    2. If so, should there be an age that they be allowed to find out (e.g. when they reach 18).?

    3.If say you were 14 and you really really wanted to find out, but your parents said no... do you think it would be unjust not to let you find out, or meet this person.

    4. Going along the lines of David Quinn's argument against referendum; do you think gender equality matters? (as he talked about the desire for having gender balance in the workplace/politics etc. and it should translate into the preference for having children raised by a man and a woman). (I'm in a fairly large gender minority in my own job but I think gender quotas are a load of xyz)

    I'm not trying to stir the pot as I know people usually :rolleyes: and throw out the homophobe word when the Iona Institute or David Quinn are mentioned. But just wanted to know your own personal opinion. Thanks.


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    #65
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Armelodie wrote: »
    1. Do you think all children (from adopted/surrogacy/one night stands! whatever) have a legal right to know who their biological parents are. I'm not specifically asking in terms of 'medical family history' , that too, but in general?

    2. If so, should there be an age that they be allowed to find out (e.g. when they reach 18).?

    3.If say you were 14 and you really really wanted to find out, but your parents said no... do you think it would be unjust not to let you find out, or meet this person.

    4. Going along the lines of David Quinn's argument against referendum; do you think gender equality matters? (as he talked about the desire for having gender balance in the workplace/politics etc. and it should translate into the preference for having children raised by a man and a woman). (I'm in a fairly large gender minority in my own job but I think gender quotas are a load of xyz)

    I'm not trying to stir the pot as I know people usually :rolleyes: and throw out the homophobe word when the Iona Institute or David Quinn are mentioned. But just wanted to know your own personal opinion. Thanks.

    Hi Armelodie, I'll be honest and say a few of your questions are hardly my area of expertise, but I'll answer what I can and strictly in my own opinion.

    1. I don't know a good answer to this one. On the one hand, yes. Mostly in the event of needing to know any serious medical news that may impact the child too. On the other hand, no. Not if the biological parent strictly requested not to have it known. Both people have their rights on this.
    I'm sorry to say this is not one I can answer straight up. This would obviously impact question 2.

    3. Again, this is similar. But really there are hundreds of variables, I guess it would depend on the reason why the parents are not willing to tell. My parents were always very open with me and hid nothing, if I asked then I was told. For me, this was great, but may not always be ideal depending on the circumstances.

    4. Gender equality is important to me, but I say this in the sense that people are people and are equal. Society may not always -treat- them equally, but as a species we are the same. I think there should be more focus on that.
    David Quinn is trying to twist the concept of equality in the work place into a mother/father family being the ideal situation, which is a nonsense.
    Equality in the workplace and so on should really be about the right person for the right job, whether they be male, female, black, asian, white or anything else.
    I do think that sometimes we can jump to the sexism claim in some situations, when instead the recruiters simply went with the person they preferred. And yes, in so many many case, they simply don't want to have a woman in the job. That is where the problem is.

    I'm sorry Armelodie, I'm afraid I may not have been great for answering your questions on this one, it's not really my area of expertise!


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    #66
    Shrap
    Registered Users Posts: 3,163 ✭✭✭Shrap


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Equality in the workplace and so on should really be about the right person for the right job, whether they be male, female, black, asian, white or anything else.
    I do think that sometimes we can jump to the sexism claim in some situations, when instead the recruiters simply went with the person they preferred. And yes, in so many many case, they simply don't want to have a woman in the job. That is where the problem is.

    I'm sorry Armelodie, I'm afraid I may not have been great for answering your questions on this one, it's not really my area of expertise!

    I think you totally answered the question. The right person for the job of parenting is one (or two) who can provide the love, care and attention a child needs regardless of gender.

    Hope I'm not going against thread rules by jumping in here with no question for you, but I can clear something up for Armelodie about David Quinn's position on gender quotas, which in 2011 he was totally against and seemed to be based on keeping women in the home. Now he's using the notion of gender balance to suit his needs in 2015.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/david-quinn-forget-corporate-donations-its-gender-quotas-that-worry-me-26738966.html
    "What is more, even if in the future 30pc of TDs are women, many will represent the interests of women like themselves, that is women who want full-time careers, at the expense of all those other women who favour a different mix of home and work."


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    #67
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Brilliant stuff, thanks for doing this man! hope to see yourself and others who grew up in the same situation get to speak in these debates! make the experience of growing up as you did more of a reality to those who are trying to stifle the referendum with their 'think of the children' nonsense.

    fair play!


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    #68
    sniperman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭sniperman


    keep marrige between man and woman,end of.


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    #69
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    sniperman wrote: »
    keep marrige between man and woman,end of.

    Fantastic contribution, do you have a question for me?


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    #70
    amdublin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 20,650 CMod ✭✭✭✭amdublin


    Oh I've thought of a question!

    Re. Panti Bliss/Noble Call/Oppression
    Did you witness any "oppression/bullying" of your parents growing up?


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    #71
    sniperman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭sniperman


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Fantastic contribution, do you have a question for me?
    only question i have is why even put SSM to a vote?it just should not be even thought of,end of


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    #72
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    amdublin wrote: »
    Oh I've thought of a question!

    Re. Panti Bliss/Noble Call/Oppression
    Did you witness any "oppression/bullying" of your parents growing up?

    Never direct bullying or oppression. I do remember times we'd be walking down the street and someone driving past shouts "Dyke" or something, usually my parents just shrugged it off, but I do remember a few times it actually hurt them, but of course like all parents they wouldn't really show it in front of me.

    Most people, and I do mean most people, that knew/know my parents have basically just accepted them for who they are and sexuality has little to do with it. Again, that's over the last 20 years or so, I do know that both of them would have received more hassle/oppression in late 70's and 80's.


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    #73
    seventeen sheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭seventeen sheep


    sniperman wrote: »
    only question i have is why even put SSM to a vote?it just should not be even thought of,end of

    No one is making you marry anyone of the same sex ....

    Unless you are considering marrying someone of the same sex as you, why do you think it affects you, and why do you care what others choose to do?


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    #74
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    sniperman wrote: »
    only question i have is why even put SSM to a vote?it just should not be even thought of,end of

    Y'know what, you are spot on my friend. Why even put it to a vote? We shouldn't even need to think of it, end of!

    It should already be legal, we should not be into the second decade of the 21st century and debating this. Good man yourself, sniperman :pac:


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    #75
    Whosthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Whosthis


    As you're in your 30s I'm guessing your mums are of an age that there sexuality would have been a contentious issue with their parents, was that the case and if so did you have a relationship with your grandparents?

    You've mentioned that your mother was good friends with your father yet you don't know him. Did they sever the friendship or are they still in contact?

    Did you ever steal either or both of your mums Playboys?


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    #76
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Whosthis wrote: »
    As you're in your 30s I'm guessing your mums are of an age that there sexuality would have been a contentious issue with their parents, was that the case and if so did you have a relationship with your grandparents?

    A fair question. My biological mothers mother was, so far as I know, quite accepting of it after some time. Maybe a few years and then she just stopped caring. I believe (but not positive) an early problem was grandkids, but that got sorted out haha. My biological grandfather seemed to drift in and out, I remember years and years of him seemingly not caring at all, and then for a while he denied ever knowing or accepting it, despite all the years at dinner and so on. He is okay and doesn't care about it anymore, I've spoken with him at length in private and know he's sorry for the past things he said. I appreciated his honesty for that.

    My other mothers parents have, as far as I know at all, never really cared at all. They're both delightfully chirpy and stereotyped happy English couple who solve problems with tea and farming.
    Whosthis wrote: »
    You've mentioned that your mother was good friends with your father yet you don't know him. Did they sever the friendship or are they still in contact?
    The friendship was severed a while after I was born. Sadly they basically drifted into different life styles, my parents being completely happy to do the happy family thing for a long time, and he was more up for the partying and general debauchery lifestyle.
    I have, admittedly, in times in my life (like when my daughter was born) how my life would have been had I known him. But honestly, I think it would have been basically the same, with the same upbringing.
    Whosthis wrote: »
    Did you ever steal either or both of your mums Playboys?

    Hah, this does actually remind me of a funny story.
    I was asked when I was about 15 or so by a mate of mine if because my parents were lesbians, did that mean the idea of lesbian porn was of no interest to me. I looked him dead in the eye, in front of all our friends, and said "Let me ask you this, because your parents are straight, does that mean you never look at straight porn?"
    We all laughed and so did he, admitting that was a damn good point.

    In answer to your questions, no I did not steal them! My parents were far too high-brow for that filth! :pac:


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    #77
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Do you call both your mothers 'mam' or have you a variation for each parent?


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    #78
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Do you call both your mothers 'mam' or have you a variation for each parent?

    I call them both by their names honestly. Habit I got into when I was very young and stuck with me, I call all my family by their names. It's like calling my cousin "Cousin". Sounded strange as a kid, still does.

    Probably when I a child I called them mum or mam when I wanted something.


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    #79
    Gloomtastic!
    Registered Users Posts: 8,375 ✭✭✭Gloomtastic!


    Did you have a male role model when you were growing up?


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    #80
    sniperman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭sniperman


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Y'know what, you are spot on my friend. Why even put it to a vote? We shouldn't even need to think of it, end of!

    It should already be legal, we should not be into the second decade of the 21st century and debating this. Good man yourself, sniperman :pac:
    think your missing my point,marrige should only be between a man and woman,it more natural,end of;)


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    #81
    sniperman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭sniperman


    seventeen sheep wrote: »
    No one is making you marry anyone of the same sex ....

    Unless you are considering marrying someone of the same sex as you, why do you think it affects you, and why do you care what others choose to do?
    ask the pope if he cares;)


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    #82
    Whosthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,342 ✭✭✭Whosthis


    sniperman wrote: »
    think your missing my point,marrige should only be between a man and woman,it more natural,end of;)


    Marriage isn't natural, its a human concept.


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    #83
    Mars Bar
    Registered Users Posts: 31,826 ✭✭✭✭Mars Bar


    sniperman wrote: »
    ask the pope if he cares;)

    In all honesty, who should give one flying **** what he thinks?

    Thanks for your fantastic contribution OP.


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    #84
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Gloomtastic! wrote: »
    Did you have a male role model when you were growing up?

    Besides Spiderman? Well I guess there was my grandfather, uncle, and other male friends of my parents. But as I said earlier, my own parents served both roles, exactly the same as a single mother would.


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    #85
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    sniperman wrote: »
    think your missing my point,marrige should only be between a man and woman,it more natural,end of;)

    I didn't miss your point at all, in fact.

    Now, I didn't want to address as you haven't actually asked a question, but what the hell.

    As you mentioned the Pope, well its clear you're a Catholic. The first thing I want to say is I respect that and your right to your belief. I'm not asking you to marry a man, or even that the Church should perform gay marriages.

    Secondly, marriage itself in Ireland and Europe in general has changed massively even in the last 150 years. While it used to largely be about wealth and gaining land (ala Pride and Prejudice), its now more about love and commitment. Even divorce itself is a relatively new concept in Ireland and the Church claimed them that it would ruin marriage. Gosh, up until the 80s I believe it was legal for a husband to rape his wife, because it was his right. And even then, people complained about that.

    Thirdly, the upcoming referendum is really just about legal recognition. Tax rights as a couple for example, and even basic rights of inheritence. For example, a female couple who have been together for let's say 50 years and one dies, sadly they lack proper legal recognition for the other to pass on their belongings.

    Or even of say a lesbian couple had a child, the biological child of one of them. If both parents died when the child was let's say 18, the other mother would not be able to inherit her belongings to the child she'd raised for 18 years without a massive tax penalty.

    I doubt you've read this far, so I'll finish on this. This referendum is not about redefining marriage, or even religion. It is simply about legal rights as a person.

    Nothing more than that.


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    #86
    sniperman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭sniperman


    Mars Bar wrote: »
    In all honesty, who should give one flying **** what he thinks?

    Thanks for your fantastic contribution OP.
    well i think anyone who is catholic might disagree with your comment,if we all thought that about the closest person there is to god,then what would be the point of having a pope?


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    #87
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Can we just not go down the whole religion path? It's so overdone.

    Question for OP (and thank you for your answers so far): Has "officialdom" ever been a problem for you? Like filling out forms where it might say "mother" and "father", that type of thing? Or because one of your mothers is not legally your parent, did Official Ireland just assume you were the child of a single mother?


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    #88
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,239 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Aard wrote: »
    Can we just not go down the whole religion path? It's so overdone.

    Question for OP (and thank you for your answers so far): Has "officialdom" ever been a problem for you? Like filling out forms where it might say "mother" and "father", that type of thing? Or because one of your mothers is not legally your parent, did Official Ireland just assume you were the child of a single mother?

    Funny you mention it, but it never really came up. As I said previously on hospital visits the Doctor always just assumed the one who brought me was my mother and went from there. If the other came to they did the usual eyes glazed thing for a moment and moved on.

    Officially of course, Ireland has always gone with single parent. As I said before, legally they were never recognised as a couple and so, my mother mother was never recognised as a parent by the state. Despite the fact she was raising me.


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    #89
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 47,284 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    sniperman, despite the fact that you're doing a great job of encouraging people to vote yes, I have to insist that you stop derailing this thread. There are loads of SSM threads on the go in other forums if you want to debate the issue, but continuing to do so here will result in a ban.


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    #90
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,017 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    What do you call your Mothers?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #91
    sniperman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,990 ✭✭✭sniperman


    Zaph wrote: »
    sniperman, despite the fact that you're doing a great job of encouraging people to vote yes, I have to insist that you stop derailing this thread. There are loads of SSM threads on the go in other forums if you want to debate the issue, but continuing to do so here will result in a ban.
    hey ,im having my say like all the rest,so i dont give a rats behind what you do,simples:D


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