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It’s complicated: the truth about women and porn

2

Comments

  • #32
    ancapailldorcha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,375 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Neyite wrote: »
    See, again, its focusing on what a man finds pleasurable.

    Surely, stamina must come into play. I'm not disagreeing with you but surely most men would tire out well before this point. It's akin to this "I'd go all night" nonsense one hears from time to time.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #33
    beks101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I imagine anyone who sincerely enjoys being banged on like a drum for 30 minutes straight would constitute an infinitesimal minority of people if they even exist.

    Always makes me wince to watch that kinda thing. Just, ow.

    And that's the thing as Neyite mentioned - the physical act itself, pounding away like no-one's business, the visuals of woman bouncing up and down til infinity, the zero-to-100 aspect, whoosh, clothes are off and she's taking it up the ass...that are very obvious components of the male sexual fantasy.

    Whereas for many women it's about the build-up, the foreplay, teasing, all of the stuff that builds libido and desire and that is very clearly omitted from your mainstream videos.

    That and I'll know about 3 seconds in whether or not the woman is faking it (at least 9 times out of 10: most definitely) and that just invalidates the whole thing as far as I'm concerned.


  • #34
    ancapailldorcha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,375 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    beks101 wrote: »
    Always makes me wince to watch that kinda thing. Just, ow.

    And that's the thing as Neyite mentioned - the physical act itself, pounding away like no-one's business, the visuals of woman bouncing up and down til infinity, the zero-to-100 aspect that are very obvious components of the male sexual fantasy.

    Whereas for many women it's about the build-up, the foreplay, teasing, all of the stuff that builds libido and desire and that is very clearly omitted from your mainstream videos.

    That and I'll know about 3 seconds in whether or not the woman is faking it (at least 9 times out of 10: most definitely) and that just invalidates the whole thing as far as I'm concerned.

    Spot on.

    Perhaps oddly, I actually prefer the buildup myself. The actual act gets real old real fast which isn't good when 90% of a half hour video consists of the woman being used like a living sex toy. The moaning's not even remotely convincing. I find it odd that the "actors" barely even look at each other.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #35
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    So it seems like mainstream (often American) porn is what people encounter first, and quite often it's really gross or rough. I suppose that "brand" is quicker and easier to make and it sells.

    I've had a few conversations over the years with guys, and the consensus was that they found the same things off-putting as I do. However, it was said that they could ignore what was annoying them more easily. But, I honestly don't think men and women are that different in general terms.

    I reckon once guys have some real world sexual experience, the porn tropes get left behind.


  • #36
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,612 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Das Kitty wrote: »
    So it seems like mainstream (often American) porn is what people encounter first, and quite often it's really gross or rough. I suppose that "brand" is quicker and easier to make and it sells.

    I've had a few conversations over the years with guys, and the consensus was that they found the same things off-putting as I do. However, it was said that they could ignore what was annoying them more easily. But, I honestly don't think men and women are that different in general terms.

    I reckon once guys have some real world sexual experience, the porn tropes get left behind.
    Exactly. I have yet to meet a man who would enjoy 30 minutes of banging. I think porn as any other erotic literature is very often a fantasy and people understand it as such and not as how to do it manual.

    There is the thing, you often don't know what you enjoy before you try it. I'm old and prefer comfort so a spontaneous sex in the field really isn't my thing. Another one that makes me laugh is sex in a swimming pool which was very popular in mainstream movies and it showed sex in a more gentle female friendly way. It is still very uncomfortable and a good indicator to tell who is talking b.s. I think our fantasies are often waaay of the scale of what are we prepared to do ourselves. There are some things/positions that you need to try to know weather you like them or not and some can be very uncomfortable for men too.


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  • #37
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    TheBeardedLady wrote: »
    And I don't like to see the woman in pain or any kind of torture or really violent stuff where it's obvious the woman doesn't want to be there.

    Hmmm... with BSDM though, that's kinda part of it, acting like you're not enjoying it. Some women involved probably aren't enjoying it, but some are most certainly pretending not to.


  • #38
    TheBeardedLady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    Hmmm... with BSDM though, that's kinda part of it, acting like you're not enjoying it. Some women involved probably aren't enjoying it, but some are most certainly pretending not to.


    That's grand but I don't have a preference for BSDM. I don't click on the BSDM category but still get women looking like they don't want to be there. It's in every category. If they're acting, nice one but it doesn't do anything for me personally.


  • #39
    Lyaiera
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭Lyaiera


    Medication has killed any sexual impulses for me. I still get them but they're prompted by more "erotic" situations rather than just seeing someone, or having them randomly come up on me. So if I'm flirting with them I get sexy butterflies in my stomach, but I'll never just think, "porn would be good."

    With that in mind I find the vast majority of porn horrific, because it just fails to get those sexy butterflies going. Unless I look hard (reviews rather than just randomly clicking on the free websites) I know I'll never find anything. One decent director I found was Erika Lust. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erika_Lust She's won some erotic film awards and some feminist porn awards. I'm not pushed about paying for her stuff (just don't have the need for it.) But the free stuff from her I've liked.


  • #40
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    beks101 wrote: »
    If something is a true reflection of real-life sex and two people getting lost in themselves and genuinely enjoying one another's bodies, I'll probably be into it.
    Yes, that is hot.

    The stuff featuring the woman being aggressively ****ed anally and ejaculation on her eye et al... I despise it; despise the way it's normalised within porn. Is that even hardcore or just standard?


  • #41
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Well, hardcore is just where you see the anatomical bits, so yes, hardcore.

    There does seem to be a disproportionate amount of butt-sex in that awful American stuff. I was wondering if it's because most American men are circumcised and they're desensitised.


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  • #42
    USD Inflation Swap
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 22 ✭USD Inflation Swap


    Candie wrote: »
    I'm probably going to be in a minority of one when I say that porn doesn't appeal to me. I know plenty of women like it and enjoy it as part of their own self satisfaction or as part of a shared sex life, and yes, I know there are many kinds of porn (because someone is bound to say that I just haven't found the sort I like) and no, I'm not repressed or inhibited and I have all the normal urges to enjoy and experiment with sex (because the charge of being prudish is often thrown around when someones tastes are outside the mainstream). Telling me to find some sub genre I like is probably like telling a seven year old that they just haven't found the right variety of brussel sprout to love. Like the seven year old, I'm not likely to find it, but I've still had people tell me that I must be riddled with guilt, or ashamed or somehow repressed, or somehow lacking in imagination (if only they knew!) because I don't like porn. They don't pull out the judgements if I say I don't like pizza though, so it feels a bit reverse-judgemental.

    I get too engaged with the actors. I look at their faces and wonder if they're silently composing the weeks shopping list, if they're going through the motions with a particular bill being ticked off some mental list with the money for the job at hand (pun intended), I wonder if they're coerced, I wonder if they're enjoying it. I don't like the amateur porn for the same reason, I wonder what's going through the participants heads (assuming it's not the penis of the guy behind!), if one of them was keener than the other, if anyone was persuaded...

    Now, I'm well aware that many choose to seek employment in the porn industry, or amateur actors and couples enjoy the voyeuristic aspect of putting their sex lives on the internet, and I absolutely, definitely, 100% do not judge anyone for their choices in the sex lives - why would I? It has nothing to do with me.

    But, it's just not for me. It breaks the moment and brings something other into an intimate experience, that to me is about two people. I know everyone else is different, different people want different things from sex, even in the space of the same day and with the same person or people and that's fine for them.

    Being indifferent to porn, and wanting sex to be within a caring relationship is fine too though. In an increasingly liberated world where we rightly rail against the machines of conformity and repression, of guilt and shame, of stereotypes and expectation, sometimes its good to remind ourselves that choices work every way, and that not liking something is ok too.

    What's your opinion on amateur porn?


  • #43
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,360 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Das Kitty wrote: »
    There does seem to be a disproportionate amount of butt-sex in that awful American stuff. I was wondering if it's because most American men are circumcised and they're desensitised.
    I'd reckon that's a helluva lot of it. Ditto for the pounding away jackhammer style. Not having been mutilated as a baby, I can say that neither would appeal to me. Too damn sore. And going in when the woman is clearly dry... :eek::eek: Pure agony. I'd bet most men built as nature intended would be similar.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #44
    mfceiling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,205 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    Candie wrote: »
    A while ago there was a 'Do you watch porn' type thread in AH, and one girl said she didn't - the vast majority did - and she was rounded on and derided as being a repressed prude, which was pretty judgmental and I chose not to share that I didn't watch porn after reading the comments she got.

    I think it's important not just to acknowledge that women can have a positive relationship with porn, but that it doesn't make you anti-sex if you don't find it appealing. No one should ever feel they 'should' do anything when it comes to sex, it's too personal and individual.

    Same with ONS's, no one should be judged or shamed because they enjoy them, but the same holds true if they're just not your thing either. You'd be surprised how many people throw out the prude card when someones choices don't reflect their own.

    ETA: There's no evidence of that on this thread though!


    I saw that thread also. I'm male and I don't bother with porn. I really don't see the point of it tbh. Why would you watch someone who in all likelihood is better looking than you, probably better endowed than you and is having sex with a reasonably good looking girl who "looks like" she is really enjoying herself!!

    As i said to the missus "do you think a hungry african lad watches movies of a man eating a huge steak"?

    Is it a younger person's thing I wonder?


  • #45
    IvyTheTerrible
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭IvyTheTerrible


    mfceiling wrote: »
    I saw that thread also. I'm male and I don't bother with porn. I really don't see the point of it tbh. Why would you watch someone who in all likelihood is better looking than you, probably better endowed than you and is having sex with a reasonably good looking girl who "looks like" she is really enjoying herself!!

    As i said to the missus "do you think a hungry african lad watches movies of a man eating a huge steak"?

    Is it a younger person's thing I wonder?
    Because it's exciting to watch other people having sex? That you can project your own fantasies onto the actors? That's the attraction of good porn or erotica for me.


  • #46
    shalalala
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭shalalala


    This is a great thread I have to say and I have been trying to work out how to put down what I think about porn.

    So firstly; I watch it when I need to get the deed done. I presume I would like literature better but before this thread I didn't really know where to get it. So thank you girlies :)

    Porn, I hate the acting. I hate the story lines, the jackhammer style, the constant oral performed on men, the fakeness of it all. I like sex slightly rougher but when you watch it it just seems so painful. I cannot help but think that they have been forced into it.

    The women tend to be so manufactured even on the more amateur porn but they are okay looking but the men are just not attractive at all. I hate the way it is just made for men.

    I have seen first hand what watching too much porn CAN do. In some circumstances. I have been with a man that couldn't climax until they were doing something or hearing something that was very porn-esque. Unfortunately I think this is getting more common place. Men expecting anal, the constant heavy thrusting etc. If anyone has ever watched Geordie Shore and seen the sex scenes? That rabbit quick thrusting...


  • #47
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    TheBeardedLady wrote: »
    That's grand but I don't have a preference for BSDM. I don't click on the BSDM category but still get women looking like they don't want to be there. It's in every category. If they're acting, nice one but it doesn't do anything for me personally.


    Was watching a doc on mainstream American porn actors a while back, many came of broken homes and/or desperately poverty-stricken backgrounds. Maybe the docu makers only included those peeps though, things can be skewed. But anyway, for these people, porn seemed like their only option in life.


  • #48
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    When I was a child, I used to think that the main point of sex was taking the other person's clothes off reeeeallly slowly. I had a fairly good working knowledge of what sex was (my mam maybe kind of overreacted against her very conservative Catholic upbringing by giving me and my sister an incredibly detailed version of The Talk), but apart from that actual clinical knowledge my entire erotic universe-which was the much more compelling aspect of sex for me- was gleaned from pre-watershed films and TV, which back then involved a lot of ladies' thighs, men's chests, cheesy music and then a tasteful fade-cut to them lying in each other's arms.

    Anyways, my point is, when I first saw actual hardcore porn I just thought it was rotten, no way as sexy as those PG-13 VHS tapes I used to wear out. I really had no interest in it until I was sexually active myself, and had a real life referent to make the images on screen interesting or exciting. And of course, once you have a real life referent, a lot of mainstream porn becomes unwatchable, or at least boner-killing.

    I have a few tumblrs that I go to when I need to erm...read some articles :D and they are ones that are explicitly aimed at women (hardcore though). I've watched all kinds of porn with partners, and I've never judged or been shocked by what people are into, fantasy is fantasy.

    However. There are certain aspects of the porn industry that I find highly disturbing, such as "revenge porn". Facial Abuse is also worth a google, obviously very NSFW and potentially quite upsetting. I've no problem with BDSM, people finding incest porn hot, whatever fantasies and consensual practices that people find arousing, fair enough. But the corner of the market of porn that markets itself specifically as material where lack of consent (99.9% of the times a woman's consent) is NOT fantasy, and caters to the needs of customers who get off on seeing someone being _actually_ punished through sexual violence and humiliation-that corner of the industry is disgusting, it's worrying, and it's amazing that many of the people involved in it genuinely don't seem to understand how and why what they're at is wrong.


  • #49
    Venus In Furs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Venus In Furs


    Pedro Gifted Sperm wrote: »
    However. There are certain aspects of the porn industry that I find highly disturbing, such as "revenge porn". Facial Abuse is also worth a google, obviously very NSFW and potentially quite upsetting. I've no problem with BDSM, people finding incest porn hot, whatever fantasies and consensual practices that people find arousing, fair enough. But the corner of the market of porn that markets itself specifically as material where lack of consent (99.9% of the times a woman's consent) is NOT fantasy, and caters to the needs of customers who get off on seeing someone being _actually_ punished through sexual violence and humiliation-that corner of the industry is disgusting, it's worrying, and it's amazing that many of the people involved in it genuinely don't seem to understand how and why what they're at is wrong.
    And get super defensive when that point of view is put in front of them.

    Great post.

    When something is not BDSM (consensual) but just a depiction of someone being hurt, not consenting, subjugated... it's beyond disturbing IMO.


  • #50
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    I have to say though, I really hate money shots. :( I have no interest in the seeing that if it's not my boyfriend.


  • #51
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    I don't masturbate often. When I do I find that I need porn to focus me, if I leave it to my imagination I tend to get sidetracked onto clothing, furnishings, weather.


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  • #52
    ancapailldorcha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,375 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    I have to say though, I really hate money shots. :( I have no interest in the seeing that if it's not my boyfriend.

    I honestly can't think of anything less sexy in porn and that's saying something.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #53
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    I honestly can't think of anything less sexy in porn and that's saying something.

    It's just gross.


  • #54
    seventeen sheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 776 ✭✭✭seventeen sheep


    Candie wrote: »
    I get too engaged with the actors. I look at their faces and wonder if they're silently composing the weeks shopping list, if they're going through the motions with a particular bill being ticked off some mental list with the money for the job at hand (pun intended), I wonder if they're coerced, I wonder if they're enjoying it. I don't like the amateur porn for the same reason, I wonder what's going through the participants heads (assuming it's not the penis of the guy behind!), if one of them was keener than the other, if anyone was persuaded...

    Yeah that's pretty much it for me.

    I just look at it objectively. OK there's a woman with her face consciously purposely contorted to show that she's enjoying this so much and this guy is pleasing her so much that she can't help but scream and pant, and who cares if the neighbours hear. And it was all so spur-of-the-moment caught-unawares that she had a full face of make-up on and her legs shaved and bikini area waxed, just in case!

    No in reality, you're looking at a woman and a man who are (maybe? maybe not?) attracted to each other, going through the motions.

    Either the real thing, or else my imagination, will suffice.


  • #55
    beks101
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,802 ✭✭✭beks101


    Tarzana2 wrote: »
    Was watching a doc on mainstream American porn actors a while back, many came of broken homes and/or desperately poverty-stricken backgrounds. Maybe the docu makers only included those peeps though, things can be skewed. But anyway, for these people, porn seemed like their only option in life.

    That's the thing as well for me - I find it hard to not get drawn into the real-life sub-plots for the actual actors involved in any mainstream porn video I watch. It's all so fake and staged and unbelievable that instead of getting turned on, I'm just sitting there thinking 'I wonder how many dudes she had to shag before she met this guy today?' 'Does yer man have a girlfriend or wife and if so, I wonder does she actually watch his videos?' 'How many STD tests has she had this year and how does she cope with the stress of it all?'

    I watched a Louis Theroux doc on this subject once and it was just a very grim glimpse into the sad and sorry backgrounds and life circumstances that can lead someone down this path. Louis hung out with one of the top male porn stars in the industry, a fella in his 40s called Tommy Gunn who has shagged thousands upon thousands of hot women half his age and he just seemed like the loneliest guy in the world.

    Obviously not everyone in the industry is miserable or damaged by it, but I find it hard to switch off to the reality of it all when you're watching these clips for your supposed sexual gratification.


  • #56
    ancapailldorcha
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 44,375 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    beks101 wrote: »
    That's the thing as well for me - I find it hard to not get drawn into the real-life sub-plots for the actual actors involved in any mainstream porn video I watch. It's all so fake and staged and unbelievable that instead of getting turned on, I'm just sitting there thinking 'I wonder how many dudes she had to shag before she met this guy today?' 'Does yer man have a girlfriend or wife and if so, I wonder does she actually watch his videos?' 'How many STD tests has she had this year and how does she cope with the stress of it all?'

    I read once on here that Jenna Jameson has had to find non-sexual ways to be intimate with her partners as treating it as an occupation has essentially ruined it for her. I can easily imagine some of these people barely being able to stand each other akin to people in an office or similar environment. It really does break the illusion along with the other nonsense that's been described before.
    beks101 wrote: »
    I watched a Louis Theroux doc on this subject once and it was just a very grim glimpse into the sad and sorry backgrounds and life circumstances that can lead someone down this path. Louis hung out with one of the top male porn stars in the industry, a fella in his 40s called Tommy Gunn who has shagged thousands upon thousands of hot women half his age and he just seemed like the loneliest guy in the world.

    Obviously not everyone in the industry is miserable or damaged by it, but I find it hard to switch off to the reality of it all when you're watching these clips for your supposed sexual gratification.

    I think this is so sad. I think it comes down to the individual person but most people would find this sort of lifestyle would lead to mental health issues. I mean you're having sex with strangers for money. If watching too much porn can interfere with one's sex life and mental health, I dread to think what making it leads to.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • #57
    TheBeardedLady
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    kylith wrote: »
    I don't masturbate often. When I do I find that I need porn to focus me, if I leave it to my imagination I tend to get sidetracked onto clothing, furnishings, weather.


    I don't know if it's the case for anyone else, but I only got a laptop in 2010, so didn't have access to the internet at home. My ability to create incredibly elaborate plots to provide context for my "self-pleasuring" (I can't bring myself to use the "m" word!) has diminished dramatically since getting private internet access. Again, I don't use porn much but I'm actually trying to stop using it for "quick fixes" to get that imagination going again. Self-pleasuring used to be a lot more fun pre internet for me personally.


  • #58
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    There's mainstream porn, which a lot of it is just depressing garbage, and there is the more ethical well-produced stuff where the people in it are actually enjoying themselves and not acting (and can even be educational), where I don't even like calling it 'porn' because the word immediately brings to mind all the depressing crap out there, and has that as a negative connotation.

    I don't know why anybody would watch the mainstream/acted stuff, given better alternatives - but then, you don't exactly easily stumble upon the better/real stuff, that is also actually well-produced (and they are definitely a minority among producers).

    Reluctant to mention the actual producers, but since I've seen other posters mention them before, might as well: Abby Winters and I Feel Myself would be the more real/well-produced stuff, and the latter in particular, is miles better than anything else I've encountered - though they aren't tailored towards (non-lesbian) women, as there's rarely any men (the latter does do a site with men though).

    Given just how much better they are compared to all the depressing mainstream crap, I'm surprised that mainstream porn isn't being completely overtaken with better-produced stuff like that, by now; it seems to me, to be a relatively 'untapped' market, with huge potential - that would actually make porn way more of an accepted/non-taboo thing (maybe even suitable for use with sex education, if done right).


  • #59
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38,989 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


  • #60
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,745 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Believe it or not, some of us like it. I cant' think of anything more boring than porn where two people look lovingly into each other's eyes as they lay in front of a fire. It'd be like watching a film of people doing the washing up - I want excitement and fantasy, not a film of something I do every day myself.


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  • #61
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,052 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    mfceiling wrote: »
    I saw that thread also. I'm male and I don't bother with porn. I really don't see the point of it tbh. Why would you watch someone who in all likelihood is better looking than you, probably better endowed than you and is having sex with a reasonably good looking girl who "looks like" she is really enjoying herself!!

    As i said to the missus "do you think a hungry african lad watches movies of a man eating a huge steak"?

    Is it a younger person's thing I wonder?

    That's the key word there, men look at porn to get off, when in a relationship there is no need to.


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