What salary are you on?

doc11 · 21-01-2015 11:44PM

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Thats fair enough, that's a typical enough setup in the country(like myself). But when I hear the same "ordinary" upbringing story from son and daughters of "middle class" professionals and I think to myself if my family had that income growing up we'd think we were millionaires.

There an element if you have the ability you can succeed in life no matter what but there's definitely a bit of cultural privilege involved too.

coolemon · 21-01-2015 11:47PM

doc11 wrote: »

Yeah, how many sons of guards become guards, teachers becomes teachers and doctors become doctors etc. Cultural, nepotism and financial ability all play apart of getting ahead. The guards will put a word in for his son, same with the principles son, while the doctors son will receive the best private education/grinds and head to eastern Europe/expensive post grads when that fails(at daddys expense).

Even in my time UCD commerce like many other professional courses made new students buy specifically expensive laptops,which was a major barrier to entry for the disadvantaged from the country going there. There's little point reaching for the stars if Daddy can't afford the spaceship.

I bumped into a fella from my primary school last week who I hadn't seen about 15 years. His father was a fire-man.

Guess what he is doing now?

He was getting out of a Dublin Fire Brigade Ambulance to attend a
scene when I bumped into him.

candytog · 21-01-2015 11:57PM

My salary was 30k when I was in my early 20s but I hated the work so I left to do a degree in Psychology.

I finished college in the middle of the recession with a bunch of debt and a nice piece of paper.

I had the option to further my education (and debt along with it) but I was sick of academia so I set up a business.

I'll be 2 years in business in April and it looks like I'll earn around 30k this year

But at least now I like what I do and my business is growing so happy days

Gongoozler · 22-01-2015 12:07AM

Jack Nana wrote: »

It would be interesting if you could outline where you think I was aggressive - this may explain your timidity in seeking other employment with better remuneration and prospects.

You don't really get things do you? You said no need to be scared, I said I wasn't, and you said you weren't implying I was. Oh.. I actually don't have the energy for this.

Jack Nana · 22-01-2015 12:13AM

Gongoozler wrote: »

You don't really get things do you? You said no need to be scared, I said I wasn't, and you said you weren't implying I was. Oh.. I actually don't have the energy for this.

And that was agressive how? Genuinely did I frighten you? I honestly didn't mean to.

doc11 · 22-01-2015 12:48AM

coolemon wrote: »

Its well understood that people are prepared for social roles.

http://www.pasadena.edu/files/syllabi/mihogan_20068.pdf

Your particular disposition might have equipped you to pursue other non-farming paths. Indeed we know that farmers have the highest percentage of children going to third level.

There's a mixture of factors at play in farming.There's one farm and many children so they can't all farm. There is also the extremes too, well of farmers can afford to send there children to college but there's is also the poverty aspect of a child living in an isolated area looking at a dozen sheep on a smallholding and thinking I going to get as far away from this as possible(not going to live property here/ no future)

SuperO'B · 22-01-2015 01:14AM

28 and making just over €150k. It doesn't matter how much you earn, it's about being a nice person and whether it's enough for the individual person. Some people will never be happy and some people will be perfectly happy on a lower wage. It's all relative, money doesn't equal happiness.

coolemon · 22-01-2015 01:16AM

doc11 wrote: »

There's a mixture of factors at play in farming.There's one farm and many children so they can't all farm. There is also the extremes too, well of farmers can afford to send there children to college but there's is also the poverty aspect of a child living in an isolated area looking at a dozen sheep on a smallholding and thinking I going to get as far away from this as possible(not going to live property here/ no future)

I cant seem to find it, but I read an article that said that the urbanisation and lack of employment prospects during the mid-20th century produced a particular cultural 'emphasis' and pressure on children from rural backgrounds to go to college. A survival strategy of sorts. From this many went on to join the Irish civil service for which they were over-represented. Indeed you might find that a substantial amount of those living in the 1960's and onward housing in South County Dublin are from rural backgrounds originally.

These pressures were not on the urban working classes as there was a more plentiful supply of jobs and trades within reach. The "culture", aspirational and familial pressures did not exist and develop to the same extent as for those from rural backgrounds.

The remnants of this would remain even to this day.

Ill see if I can find where I read that.

animum · 22-01-2015 01:18AM

coolemon wrote:

The ones where, say, 99% of people from Dublin 6 go to 3rd level vs 11% in Ballyfermot. Or the ones where 1% of those from single parent families go on to third level.

I understand I am possibly not the norm, but I have friends who are the same as I am, my sons Godmother took a free fas course in computer studies, as we were from a disadvantaged area. multinational companies had to take students on as part of some scheme, she is now very high up in this company, has 3 properties and new cars etc..hard work and ambition..single parent home is where she came from, she now supports her mother, who hasnt much.

The government gave me my opportunity, they gave me a grant, and I was able to get into ucc through a programme, as I was from a disadvantaged area.

I had to work and hand up money, I had to help with my siblings.
I had sh*t going on at home, again, plenty of excuses, as to why I shouldn't or couldn't have went to college.
I am a single mother now, again another excuse.
but I don't have, nor ever had a sense of entitlement, that some people have.

my son asked me only the other day..do I know what the dole is, and do I know anyone on it?
I jumped class right there I think, by simply taking what is out there, and being grateful for the chance and working hard at it.

it's a vicious cycle, if you don't know any different, but there are opportunities out there for every child in this country.

and it's the parents and teachers job to encourage them to go to college,

every parent should want their child to reach for the stars and in my opinion, if daddy can't buy the rocket, then we learn how to build our own rocket.

rant over, sorry for going off topic

tastyt · 22-01-2015 01:22AM

SuperO'B wrote: »

28 and making just over €150k. It doesn't matter how much you earn, it's about being a nice person and whether it's enough for the individual person. Some people will never be happy and some people will be perfectly happy on a lower wage. It's all relative, money doesn't equal happiness.

Fair play to you man. Sound attitude. Any chance you can tell us what field your in?

SuperO'B · 22-01-2015 01:36AM

tastyt wrote: »

Fair play to you man. Sound attitude. Any chance you can tell us what field your in?

I work offshore in the oil and gas industry. Scraped a 2.2 in mechanical engineering &#55357;&#56836;

It's easy come out with the righteous stuff if you're making good money but it is true. I would've been as guilty as the next for chasing the big figures and so on but being content is more important. Luckily I like my job but some people get hung up on the figures. Again, when you've enough to pay the bills without any hassle then there's no everyday pressure but a lot of people are nowhere near as happy as the person who makes a modest wage and is happy and content in how their life is progressing.

I think people who are nice and have a positive attitude will always see the bright side of a situation and then money becomes a much smaller factor of being happy overall.

coolemon · 22-01-2015 01:47AM

animum wrote: »

it's a vicious cycle, if you don't know any different, but there are opportunities out there for every child in this country.

and it's the parents and teachers job to encourage them to go to college,

Well you see "equal opportunities" was the mantra of the PD's.

I came from a single parent and unskilled background and from a disadvantaged area. From a family with very little social capital and with little economic resources.

I am in a good position to see the myriad of complex barriers which limited (and continues to limit) my own potential.

I was thrown into a school system incapable of "developing" its pupils beyond their pre-existing disposition.

I was put in the bottom class due to the second level entry exam. In that class were a whole load of other pupils from the same disadvantaged areas and backgrounds. I see this only retrospectively now, that those who were placed in middle and top (school) classes were mainly from "posher" areas. From the more privileged backgrounds. Perhaps they had two parents, an immediate advantage.

They were being 'prepped' for a different social role than we were in the bottom class.

Only for I and my parent fought against the school for me to do transition year (as I had the notion of doing a mechanic placement for two weeks) I wouldn't have even got the notion or idea to go to college. I was placed in a class with those from the top and middle classes who, since entering second level, were being directed towards and prepared for college. I picked up the idea and notion of going to college from sitting beside them in class. Their aspirations were transferred in this way.

Access to a particular cultural capital - was gained.

had I no done transition year, the idea of college would not have entered my head. I would have been focused on an apprenticeship - which was all that I knew.

I then went on to do a college course which, at the time, I was not prepared for and I dropped out.

To most people "the idea" of going to college is an obvious one. But those from lower class backgrounds are faced with lots of hidden barriers and a lack of cultural prerequisites that would seem obvious to someone from a higher class background.

SuperO'B · 22-01-2015 01:55AM

coolemon wrote: »

Well you see "equal opportunities" was the mantra of the PD's.

I came from a single parent and unskilled background and from a disadvantaged area. From a family with very little social capital and with little economic resources.

I am in a good position to see the myriad of complex barriers which limited (and continues to limit) my own potential.

I was thrown into a school system incapable of "developing" its pupils beyond their pre-existing disposition.

I was put in the bottom class due to the second level entry exam. In that class were a whole load of other pupils from the same disadvantaged areas and backgrounds. I see this only retrospectively now, that those who were placed in middle and top classes were mainly from "posher" areas. From the more privileged backgrounds. Perhaps they had two parents, an immediate advantage.

They were being 'prepped' for a different social role than we were in the bottom class.

Only for I and my parent fought against the school for me to do transition year (as I had the notion of doing a mechanic placement for two weeks) I wouldn't have even got the notion or idea to go to college. I was placed in a class with those from the top and middle classes who, since entering second level, were being directed towards and prepared for college. I picked up the idea and notion of going to college from sitting beside them in class. Their aspirations were transferred in this way.

Access to a particular cultural capital - was gained.

I then went on to do a course which, at the time, I was not prepared for and I dropped out.

To most people "the idea" of going to college is an obvious one. But those from lower class backgrounds are faced with lots of hidden barriers and a lack of cultural prerequisites that would seem obvious to someone from a higher class background.

I couldn't agree more with this. I come from a middle class family where my parents both came from disadvantaged areas but drilled it into us that we had to work hard at school. I still to this day look at school mates who came through the 'lower' classes due mainly to where they came from and managed to do really well for themselves.

I always think about whether I would've been able to climb out of the sh!t bucket class like they did but I reckon I probably would've succumbed and gone with the flow of messing around in class, living for the moment and having no aspirations because nobody sitting around you did so it was ok.

I've also always said that the most important exam a lot of people do is at 11/12 years old when you do your entrance exam. That assigns your class level and it's very hard climb out of the lower classes unless you've got some real class and maturity beyond your years. That can therefore determine how your school goes and therefore your future career.

coolemon · 22-01-2015 02:14AM

SuperO'B wrote: »

I've also always said that the most important exam a lot of people do is at 11/12 years old when you do your entrance exam. That assigns your class level and it's very hard climb out of the lower classes unless you've got some real class and maturity beyond your years. That can therefore determine how your school goes and therefore your future career.

Spot on.

And how well someone does in the entrance exam is based on a whole lifetime of cultural inputs and socialisation very much out of the childs control.

I remember trying to cheat in the IQ test looking at the next persons answers. Crazy. But I hadn't a notion about anything back then. Nobody to tell me or inform me, or to prepare me.

And then, as with above, I chose a college course with my meagre points which I dropped out of for reasons linked to my whole life's past. Years and years then wasted and go by.

I have an honours degree now, although a lot older than those who had it more privileged. But its a battle. A slave-bridge job of drudgery as I have limited insight as to paths to take. Little useful social capital to advise me.

The conditions are reproducing my parent and familial class position albeit with the now equivalent of the leaving cert (a degree) and a different employment landscape. But forces largely outside of my control are reproducing my class position.

The goalposts continuously move. The middle classes find ways to maintain their social privilege over those lower than them through their greater social, cultural and economic capital.

You can even see it with the blacks in America. Deep rooted social forces reproducing their underprivileged class position over generations. And not all due to racism either.

This reminds me of the film Machuca, if anyone has watched it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubAv6ZmWxEk

SuperO'B · 22-01-2015 02:29AM

coolemon wrote: »

Spot on.

The goalposts continuously move. The middle classes find ways to maintain their social privilege over those lower than them through their greater social, cultural and economic capital.

I disagree with how you put this forward. I think that changing 'class' is hard for the reasons already mentioned as a lot of what happens is what you're born into but I disagree that it's some kind of active goal of a middle class. Saying that Middle class people 'find ways to maintain their privilege over those lower' is a bit extreme. It's not some active thought and daily goal. People just want to do the best they can and generally provide the best opportunities for their families. I don't think there is any collective goal to keep lower classes at bay and out of the 'club'. I think it's just a fact of Middle class people doing the best they can given their opportunities.

I also don't think its the responsibility of the average middle class family to work harder so that the class gap gets smaller. That's a governance issue of which this thread really doesn't need to go into and a topic which I avoid.

coolemon · 22-01-2015 02:38AM

SuperO'B wrote: »

I disagree with how you put this forward. I think that changing 'class' is hard for the reasons already mentioned as a lot of what happens is what you're born into but I disagree that it's some kind of active goal of a middle class. Saying that Middle class people 'find ways to maintain their privilege over those lower' is a bit extreme. It's not some active thought and daily goal. People just want to do the best they can and generally provide the best opportunities for their families. I don't think there is any collective goal to keep lower classes at bay and out of the 'club'. I think it's just a fact of Middle class people doing the best they can given their opportunities.

I also don't think its the responsibility of the average middle class family to work harder so that the class gap gets smaller. That's a governance issue of which this thread really doesn't need to go into and a topic which I avoid.

Its not, for the most part, some active thought. They are dispositional movements by social classes, witting or unwittingly, in an attempt to maintain social position.

For example "cosmopolitan capital" is being used increasingly by the middle classes. The Chinese middle classes are sending their children abroad to learn English despite them being able to learn English at home. This to acquire "cultural capital" over the increasing amounts of people from working class backgrounds attending university there.

This is a well studied area.

Field theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FXPnkwSCyE

punk_one82 · 22-01-2015 04:08AM

24 and in the €50,001 - €55,000 bracket. Granted I live in Sydney, so it's not exactly relative to the cost of living in Ireland.

christy02 · 22-01-2015 04:18AM

Is it possible to support a family on 35k a year? Operators in my company earn 45k + overtime + 8% bonus.
Earn significantly more as management and find it difficult to live on with a family with only one income.

Panda_Turtle · 22-01-2015 04:50AM

Sure look, its not all about the money.

You could be on over 200k a year, beautiful wife, nice house, two dogs and two cats.

Maybe you work crazy hours to maintain this lifestyle, your wife is banging another dude(s) while your at work or off on business trips. The dogs know about this but struggles to put it into words for you. You can`t understand why the dogs hate your wife but love you. Although maybe you are banging other women(s) so you even that score.

Else you are on 25k a year, live in a tiny one bed place with your partner, no kids, don`t work more than 8 hours a day, and have lots of free time.

Gits_bone · 22-01-2015 09:04AM

In my experience the big salary guys, management etc...they have to think about their job all the time. Always checking emails, always have their mind thinking of work.

I like leaving work and not having to think about it until I go in the next day.

Elessar · 22-01-2015 09:35AM

I'm 29, on 30k in IT. Very few benefits. Company I work for are heavily regulated so there are no pay reviews etc. I work next to guys younger than me earning 70-100k (developers/DBAs). Annoys me that I earn comparatively so little. But it's so difficult to move into a new IT area, which I'm trying to do (development).

CarpeDiem85 · 22-01-2015 09:35AM

Yeah so not worth it. I don't live to work. Anyone I know in a leadership role in my job has some kind of health issues. The money just doesn't make up for stress that goes with the job for me.

Elessar · 22-01-2015 09:49AM

Gits_bone wrote: »

In my experience the big salary guys, management etc...they have to think about their job all the time. Always checking emails, always have their mind thinking of work.

I like leaving work and not having to think about it until I go in the next day.

This. I would never get into management. You are practically always working, more stress, more pressure. No amount of money in the world could persuade me to get into management.

I see an ideal scenario as having a good skillset and experience which will earn you a nice living, and/or contracting with those skills. You work well, get paid well, go home.

greendom · 22-01-2015 09:53AM

From looking at the poll results it appears that there needs to be a few categories in the under 35k section

Permabear · 22-01-2015 12:14PM

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txt_mess · 22-01-2015 12:30PM

I'd have to agree with the positive outlook I come from a background of hardworking parents (but not for much money) and was always told if you work hard at it things will come.

Being 35 now and having worked officially since I was 16 I can say that's true worked hard made the best choices got lucky once or twice but that could also be down to taking a risk or two and I have worked my way up the ladder.

I'm far from the top end of the scale but I am holding my own and supporting a family.

I think you can sit there all day and complain or just try and do something about it and no that's not easy and it won't happen overnight either I get a pain in my head when I hear folks complaining about wages no one is paid what they want to be but that's life get over it.

Also the focus in here on degrees and post grads only comes into play in certain industries the experience you build up goes a long way in my opinion.

Permabear · 22-01-2015 12:33PM

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Jude13 · 22-01-2015 12:34PM

My salary is directly related to billable hours for which it is quite easy for the client to know if I am over charging. I was in the 140 - 150 category last year however I am going quite grey.
May be setting up my own firm where my pre tax salary will be circa 60K however some months if the Client doesn't pay on time I will have no income. If there is a profit at the end of the year it will be split with my partner.

Big risk, big reward.

Thargor · 22-01-2015 12:47PM

Im 30 with a decent chunk of savings, pissed off with the current job and would love to retrain for something with higher wages.

If money were no object what field would people recommend retraining in right now? If I'm working in a sh1t job I might as well be getting paid for it...

The Cool · 22-01-2015 01:09PM

I'm 25 and I've just finished my first year as a freelancer, and have totted up a total of €20k this year.
It's been a tough run, particularly seeing my friends in their 3rd or 4th year of good jobs, going on holidays and starting to save towards a mortgage (!) while my boyfriend is helping me pay the rent, I have no social life, etc. But I love what I do, have a great work-life balance as it's all on my own terms and feel like I'm on the right track. Before this I had an office job for a year which paid €23k and between commuting in and out to work etc it just didn't feel worth it.
Insanely jealous of the people my age on €50k+ but hopefully I won't be too far behind you!

What salary are you on?

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