Commuting by car is king!

Pinch Flat · 13-01-2015 10:03PM

cdebru wrote: »

24 hour bus lanes are normally where they wouldn't be a road lane if it wasn't a bus lane so there is no loss of road space, besides if you can do without it all day you are hardly likely to need to drive in it at 3am are you ?

Ah yeah fair enough. I just can't get the logic of them. There's on on the old n3 outside clonee. Fair enough for getting buses into town at rush hour, but pointless outside of this

Muahahaha · 13-01-2015 10:25PM

cdebru wrote: »

Cycling is by far the easiest way to get around the city, a 10km commute by bike is less than 30minutes, no bus or car can compete with that, and your commute time is regular, besides that it is far cheaper and you can even scrap the gym membership you never use. No parking nightmares you can go directly to whatever part of the city need to get to.

I'd largely agree with this, I live 9km from town and can cover it in about 24-26 minutes. The 140 bus takes about 30-33 minutes to get to town from where I am. I think any cyclist of average fitness can beat the speed of Dublin Bus over a 10km commute. Huge amounts of commuters inside the m50 could actually get quicker to their destination cycling than they can by car or bus. Just this morning when cycling on my way into town a red car passed me outside the Lidl at the junction of St.Margarets Road, the car stood out as it had snow on the roof. Roll on 6km later and I overtook him in Phibsboro. It really stood out to me how driving inside the m50 is more or less the same average speed of cycling.

I own a mototbike too and it is marginally quicker over my commute than cycling, mainly as motorbikes have such good acceleration that you often skip through traffic light sequences that are timed for cars, often on a motorbike in the city I'll get four green lights in a row whereas that just wouldn't happen in a car, you'll get two greens and the next set you meet will be red.

But in general these days I'm more likely to take the bicycle as doing so means no need to be spending 3-4 hours down the gym every week. Cycling uses my commuting time to kill two birds with the one stone- getting to where I need to go and keeping in shape.

Jawgap · 13-01-2015 10:32PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'd largely agree with this, I live 9km from town and can cover it in about 24-26 minutes. The 140 bus takes about 30-33 minutes to get to town from where I am. I think any cyclist of average fitness can beat the speed of Dublin Bus over a 10km commute. Huge amounts of commuters inside the m50 could actually get quicker to their destination cycling than they can by car or bus. Just this morning when cycling on my way into town a red car passed me outside the Lidl at the junction of St.Margarets Road, the car stood out as it had snow on the roof. Roll on 6km later and I overtook him in Phibsboro. It really stood out to me how driving inside the m50 is more or less the same average speed of cycling.

I own a mototbike too and it is marginally quicker over my commute than cycling, mainly as motorbikes have such good acceleration that you often traffic light sequences that are timed for cars, often on a motorbike in the city I'll get four green lights in a row whereas that just wouldn't happen in a car, you'll get two greens and the next set you meet will be red.

But in general these days I'm more likely to take the bicycle as doing so means no need to be spending 3-4 hours down the gym every week. Cycling uses my commuting time to kill two birds with the one stone- getting to where I need to go and keeping in shape.

It's fairly easy to maintain a 30 km/hr average on a bike in the city centre. I used to live in Rathfarnham and from the city centre to there rare took more than 25 mins over 9.5 km. Took less than 20 mins going the other way because it was down hil

Usually took 30 to 40 mins in the car during rush hour.

Alias G · 14-01-2015 12:31AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Ah yeah fair enough. I just can't get the logic of them. There's on on the old n3 outside clonee. Fair enough for getting buses into town at rush hour, but pointless outside of this

Used by taxis aircoach and other private operators 24/7

Geuze · 14-01-2015 01:03AM

Jawgap wrote: »

I think housing and development policies have a lot to answer for, as well as public transport options - which are ok in Dublin, but pretty pathetic once you go outside the capital.

But there also remains the fact that Irish people love their cars!

The place I was working in last year had a big push a while ago to get people to give up their cars - mainly because they wanted to save on the car parking bills.

They pushed taxsaver, they pushed the cycle to work scheme and they pushed carpooling. They put a lot of 'soft incentives' in to help - for example, they revamped (and really poshed up) the showers and changing facilities (adding pretty big lockers), they ran a couple of raffles for things like ten journey tickets and Leap Card credit (to encourage people to at least try an alternative to the car) and organised coffee mornings with posh coffee and pastries for the "Commuter Club."

I think after about 6 months of trying only 2 people had switched from cars to public transport - this despite the fact that out of 120+ staff at the start of the process, over 80 were car commuters and of those 80 about 75% lived within 20km of the office and just under half lived within 10km.

Good point.

Very difficult to convince Irish people to give up the car.

lucernarian · 14-01-2015 02:52AM

Worth bearing in mind that after a cycle >10 minutes or so, I would end up looking for a shower. It's not something I had access to in most of the jobs I worked or indeed in college if time wasn't a luxury. I found I would have to allow an extra ten minutes for a shower and drying off etc. The time might vary by a few minutes either way but I doubt it's an uncommon experience. I hate traffic congestion and enjoy cycling as a whole but I regularly felt sweaty and this had its pitfalls:( Maybe it was different specifically because I tried to cycle more often while I was in college and the facilities provided were not ideal.

Jawgap · 14-01-2015 06:59AM

Geuze wrote: »

Good point.

Very difficult to convince Irish people to give up the car.

The programme they ran to help people quit smoking was many times more successful!!

LXFlyer · 14-01-2015 08:01AM

Jawgap wrote: »

I think housing and development policies have a lot to answer for, as well as public transport options - which are ok in Dublin, but pretty pathetic once you go outside the capital.

But there also remains the fact that Irish people love their cars!

The place I was working in last year had a big push a while ago to get people to give up their cars - mainly because they wanted to save on the car parking bills.

They pushed taxsaver, they pushed the cycle to work scheme and they pushed carpooling. They put a lot of 'soft incentives' in to help - for example, they revamped (and really poshed up) the showers and changing facilities (adding pretty big lockers), they ran a couple of raffles for things like ten journey tickets and Leap Card credit (to encourage people to at least try an alternative to the car) and organised coffee mornings with posh coffee and pastries for the "Commuter Club."

I think after about 6 months of trying only 2 people had switched from cars to public transport - this despite the fact that out of 120+ staff at the start of the process, over 80 were car commuters and of those 80 about 75% lived within 20km of the office and just under half lived within 10km.

Can I ask, was this company located in the city centre or in the suburbs?

Jawgap · 14-01-2015 09:04AM

lxflyer wrote: »

Can I ask, was this company located in the city centre or in the suburbs?

City centre - we were in a shared facility with a number of tenants, and were paying for car parking spaces under the building, the cost of which jumped dramatically.

I doubt the organisation would have been as motivated if there wasn't the prospect of a decent financial saving

LXFlyer · 14-01-2015 09:43AM

Jawgap wrote: »

City centre - we were in a shared facility with a number of tenants, and were paying for car parking spaces under the building, the cost of which jumped dramatically.

I doubt the organisation would have been as motivated if there wasn't the prospect of a decent financial saving

That really says a lot about people to be honest - it's rather shocking that they got such a poor response.

I could understand it in the suburbs where people are coming from a multitude of destinations, but not in the city centre, unless many of those people required their car during the day for work?

It does sort of suggest that some kind of penalties are going to be needed to force people onto public transport in the city centre, or else simply remove the parking spaces!

Hotblack Desiato · 14-01-2015 09:43AM

KevR wrote: »

Would a motorbike be more efficient from a road space usage point of view than say a car with 3+ occupants?

Yes. The amount of road space in fast flowing traffic isn't the issue, the issue is what happens when the traffic congests. Motorcycles filter through so take up effectively zero space, whereas the car remains an obstacle to everything behind it (including buses, if there are no or poorly designed bus lanes.)

Jawgap wrote: »

City centre - we were in a shared facility with a number of tenants, and were paying for car parking spaces under the building, the cost of which jumped dramatically.

I doubt the organisation would have been as motivated if there wasn't the prospect of a decent financial saving

The obvious answer there is pass the full cost onto those using the car spaces.

Pinch Flat · 14-01-2015 09:54AM

lxflyer wrote: »

That really says a lot about people to be honest - it's rather shocking that they got such a poor response.

I could understand it in the suburbs where people are coming from a multitude of destinations, but not in the city centre, unless many of those people required their car during the day for work?

It does sort of suggest that some kind of penalties are going to be needed to force people onto public transport in the city centre.

I worked in city west for about 2 years - Luas stop about 400 metres from the office. Firstly, people thought that was too far to walk to get a Luas into town. Was offered a lift many a time, which was nice. So there was already an excuse.

In the time I worked there, not one of my colleagues used it to get to the City centre - where they vast majority of our clients and projects were based, instead we had scenarios where sometimes 4 of my colleagues would show up in their own cars. Faffing with parking and the usual excuse for being late ("traffic is mental").

So even where quality transport is available ( I know the red line Luas has its own social issues, but no different than what I saw living I other cities abroad) people refuse to use it.

Jawgap · 14-01-2015 10:24AM

lxflyer wrote: »

That really says a lot about people to be honest - it's rather shocking that they got such a poor response.

I could understand it in the suburbs where people are coming from a multitude of destinations, but not in the city centre, unless many of those people required their car during the day for work?

It does sort of suggest that some kind of penalties are going to be needed to force people onto public transport in the city centre, or else simply remove the parking spaces!

Some of us would need our cars for some days during the week, but it was fairly predictable.

My own view is that people shouldn't be 'forced' to give up their cars, but they should be lured into using a mix of options - some days you take the car, or hop on the bus or when the weather improves use a bike or scooter. In short, people should encouraged to develop a mix that suits themselves - then maybe once they try a different mode they might drift towards that.

In my own case, I hopped on a bike to lose a bit of weight and decided to cycle to work. The first morning I did it I was sold! As lardy-arsed and all as I was on my ancient mountain bike, I was in work in less than 20 minutes instead of the usual 40 it took me in the car!

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

The obvious answer there is pass the full cost onto those using the car spaces.

Generally, I'd agree but if people have been recruited and signed job contracts that provided with them with 'perks' that include free parking, it's difficult to turn around and suddenly start charging them for it.

The alternative was to buy people out of their space and (I think) that was mooted but deemed to be too expensive - again probably because of the affinity the people felt for their car.

Another idea, which was suggested but died, was taxing spaces as BIK - it's done in lots of other countries (I know from experience it's done in the UK) - but for some reason we seem incapable of implementing a similar scheme here.

Dravokivich · 14-01-2015 10:33AM

Jawgap wrote: »

Some of us would need our cars for some days during the week, but it was fairly predictable.

My own view is that people shouldn't be 'forced' to give up their cars, but they should be lured into using a mix of options - some days you take the car, or hop on the bus or when the weather improves use a bike or scooter. In short, people should encouraged to develop a mix that suits themselves - then maybe once they try a different mode they might drift towards that.

In my own case, I hopped on a bike to lose a bit of weight and decided to cycle to work. The first morning I did it I was sold! As lardy-arsed and all as I was on my ancient mountain bike, I was in work in less than 20 minutes instead of the usual 40 it took me in the car!

I'd agree with you on that. You don't incentivise people, by penalising them for not doing what you want them to do. It needs to be more appealing, not forced onto'em.

cdebru · 14-01-2015 11:15AM

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'd largely agree with this, I live 9km from town and can cover it in about 24-26 minutes. The 140 bus takes about 30-33 minutes to get to town from where I am. I think any cyclist of average fitness can beat the speed of Dublin Bus over a 10km commute. Huge amounts of commuters inside the m50 could actually get quicker to their destination cycling than they can by car or bus. Just this morning when cycling on my way into town a red car passed me outside the Lidl at the junction of St.Margarets Road, the car stood out as it had snow on the roof. Roll on 6km later and I overtook him in Phibsboro. It really stood out to me how driving inside the m50 is more or less the same average speed of cycling.

I own a mototbike too and it is marginally quicker over my commute than cycling, mainly as motorbikes have such good acceleration that you often skip through traffic light sequences that are timed for cars, often on a motorbike in the city I'll get four green lights in a row whereas that just wouldn't happen in a car, you'll get two greens and the next set you meet will be red.

But in general these days I'm more likely to take the bicycle as doing so means no need to be spending 3-4 hours down the gym every week. Cycling uses my commuting time to kill two birds with the one stone- getting to where I need to go and keeping in shape.

It is a bit mad that people sit in their cars in traffic for an hour or more, for a journey that could be done in 20/30 twice a day then pay a gym hundreds of euro a year to sit on a stationary bike for a few hours a week.

lucernarian · 14-01-2015 12:51PM

cdebru wrote: »

It is a bit mad that people sit in their cars in traffic for an hour or more, for a journey that could be done in 20/30 twice a day then pay a gym hundreds of euro a year to sit on a stationary bike for a few hours a week.

+1

N.B. Paid-membership gyms always have showers!

Banjoxed · 14-01-2015 01:11PM

Geuze wrote: »

Good point.

Very difficult to convince Irish people to give up the car.

Time to resurrect the "Cooked Breakfast on the Luas" meme from 2003..

cgcsb · 14-01-2015 01:15PM

BoatMad wrote: »

you mean more roads in Dublin , good idea, we definitely need an eastern ring to finish the M50. with all those high sped electric cars in the next 50 years , we need to engineer our roads for better speeds too. I mean the tesla can do 0-60 in 4 secs, and its only at the start of the technology curve.

No I mean public transport infrastructure. It is the goal of DCC and the NTA to reduce car traffic not encourage it.

Pinch Flat · 14-01-2015 01:15PM

lucernarian wrote: »

+1

N.B. Paid-membership gyms always have showers!

Some lads in work here cycle and use the gym beside us to shower - membership is heavily subsidised so it's sbout €20/month membership.

Being honest it's no big deal not having a shower - I'm commuting by bike since 2009 and only once had an office with a shower. If you invest in decent breathable cycling clothes (especially a jacket / Jersey) sweating will be minimal. I've cycle up to 20km and work in a job where a suit is required, so no issue for me.

Chemical Byrne · 14-01-2015 01:21PM

corktina wrote: »

i think the use of scooters should be encouraged rather than car use. Many cars only have one occupant anyway and switching to a scooter would free up a lot of road space. Safer and quicker than a bike I would judge

Not really practical for most people. It's extra hassle having to put on/take off rain gear etc.

Any you could hardly expect a solicitor or accountant to turn up to a client meeting on a friggin vespa!

lucernarian · 14-01-2015 01:22PM

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Not really practical for most people. It's extra hassle having to put on/take off rain gear etc.

Any you could hardly expect a solicitor or accountant to turn up to a client meeting on a friggin vespa!

It's a damn sight more convenient than having showers after every commute! Also people have little to be worrying about if they're looking at someone's brand of scooter in a car park outside! Why would anyone even bring that up at a meeting?

Pinch Flat · 14-01-2015 01:24PM

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

Not really practical for most people. It's extra hassle having to put on/take off rain gear etc.

Any you could hardly expect a solicitor or accountant to turn up to a client meeting on a friggin vespa!

Why? It's no hassle at all just takes a bit of planning and ensuring you have the correct gear.

I wouldn't see any issue with a professional turning up on a scooter - this is common place and normal in continental Europe. I would prefer this than someone arriving late by car and blaming it on lack of parking or heavy traffic. Why are we different here?

Chemical Byrne · 14-01-2015 01:36PM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Why? It's no hassle at all just takes a bit of planning and ensuring you have the correct gear.

I wouldn't see any issue with a professional turning up on a scooter - this is common place and normal in continental Europe. I would prefer this than someone arriving late by car and blaming it on lack of parking or heavy traffic. Why are we different here?

I work for a consultant's and I was told about a guy there previously who was nicknamed the "Greyhound" cos he had no car and used to get around on the buses for going to meetings etc.
He was pulled aside one day by management who told him in no uncertain terms to go and get a car as you can't be rocking up to meetings with clients on a bus as it makes him and the company look bad.
It's not about practicality, it's just a cultural thing.

Pinch Flat · 14-01-2015 01:39PM

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I work for a consultant's and I was told about a guy there previously who was nicknamed the "Greyhound" cos he had no car and used to get around on the buses for going to meetings etc.
He was pulled aside one day by management who told him in no uncertain terms to go and get a car as you can't be rocking up to meetings with clients on a bus as it makes him and the company look bad.
It's not about practicality, it's just a cultural thing.

I work for a professional consultancy myself - if my boss was worried about the impression I'd be making given my chosen mode of transport to arrive at meetingS or appointments I'd work elsewhere tbh.

Chemical Byrne · 14-01-2015 01:53PM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I work for a professional consultancy myself - if my boss was worried about the impression I'd be making given my chosen mode of transport to arrive at meetingS or appointments I'd work elsewhere tbh.

You have a point of course, it's a trivial thing to pull someone up on.

But I can only guess that the bosses rationale was something like: this guy is supposed to be a professional and expert in his field. Our client is expecting to see someone successful, mature and professional. To be seen hopping off a bus doesn't convey that and would portray the Co. in a bad light.

Now hopping out of a dirty 2001 Corsa wouldn't convey that either would it?
Maybe he was expecting him to pull up in an S class.

Yeah it is totally stupid but that attitude is out there, a lot. This was in Cork, maybe things are different in Dublin. I was without a car for a while there last year and people would be almost taken aback and say things like "what do you mean you don't have a car?" And I later found out that people were speculating that I was off the road. "done for the bag" was the term that was used I believe. Nonsense.

lucernarian · 14-01-2015 01:55PM

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

I work for a consultant's and I was told about a guy there previously who was nicknamed the "Greyhound" cos he had no car and used to get around on the buses for going to meetings etc.
He was pulled aside one day by management who told him in no uncertain terms to go and get a car as you can't be rocking up to meetings with clients on a bus as it makes him and the company look bad.
It's not about practicality, it's just a cultural thing.

I know attitudes like this exist but that is genuinely over the top and tbh it doesn't seem professional to comment on anything to do with personal etiquette and perception unless the guy was showing up late while using buses... Also if the company gave a damn about particular clients that much then taxis could be used and expenses paid surely?? I don't know what kind of company you work for but this doesn't reflect the reality of my own experiences at least. Especially not in Dublin.

Edit: I see, I figured this story was from somewhere outside Dublin. I've used bus services that serve me well in rural Ireland but that doesn't stop people there looking at you almost sympathetically (if you ever told them).

Jawgap · 14-01-2015 02:03PM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Some lads in work here cycle and use the gym beside us to shower - membership is heavily subsidised so it's sbout €20/month membership.

Being honest it's no big deal not having a shower - I'm commuting by bike since 2009 and only once had an office with a shower. If you invest in decent breathable cycling clothes (especially a jacket / Jersey) sweating will be minimal. I've cycle up to 20km and work in a job where a suit is required, so no issue for me.

Plus.......

.......baby wipes

Chemical Byrne · 14-01-2015 02:07PM

The work atmosphere in my workplace is toxic to say the least. The stress has made me lose weight and can hardly sleep worrying about stuff some nights. Constant aggression, intimidation and manipulation, jealousy, bullying. Everyone seems to be seething and itching to have a go all the time. I've seen a 6'6"ish man cry like a baby at his desk when a female colleague squared up and roared at him literally half an inch in front of his face. Even between the graduates. I'd say 30% of employees have left within the last year, even very senior people. Even management is split in two and the 2 schisms don't speak to eachother and are in a constant power struggle.

So it's hardly surprising this sort and commenting stuff goes on.

lucernarian · 14-01-2015 02:13PM

Chemical Byrne wrote: »

The work atmosphere in my workplace is toxic to say the least. Constant aggression, intimidation and manipulation. Even between graduates. I'd say 30% of employees have left within the last year, even very senior people. Even management is split in two and the 2 schisms don't speak to eachother and are in a constant power struggle.

So it's hardly surprising this sort and commenting stuff goes on.

Off topic I know but is it a multinational or Irish owned/listed company?

Chemical Byrne · 14-01-2015 02:20PM

lucernarian wrote: »

Off topic I know but is it a multinational or Irish owned/listed company?

Mutlinational.
To look at the HR bit of the website you'd think it was a great place to work.

Commuting by car is king!

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