Commuting by car is king!

18MonthsaSlave

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/01/which-eu-country-prefers-commuting-by.html

...as if Irish Commuters had any other viable alternative.

porsche959

Doesn't look good that we are at 73% and UK is at 57%.

degsie

porsche959 wrote: »

Doesn't look good that we are at 73% and UK is at 57%.

Don't think car dealers would agree.

Del2005

porsche959 wrote: »

Doesn't look good that we are at 73% and UK is at 57%.

Our ribbon development along every boreen in the country means that the other transport options are available to most people, public transport isn't viable and they drive so recklessly that walking or cycling can be dangerous.

Surprised that some continental countries are so high

cgcsb

The problem is our development pattern. 40% rural population, utterly unsustainable when rural dwellers demand equal service provision to urban dwellers below market cost. What we need is towns with sustainable infrastructure and an outright ban on ribbon development.

KevR

Rural population is only part of it.

It's not like the public transport system in Dublin is great. It's not a good alternative to driving for many people in Dublin.

What's crazy is they are now doing some cheaper version of Metro North (shorter trains and platforms). That will definitely result in capacity problems down the line. People will not be encouraged to switch from their car onto an overcrowded public transport system. Why would you want to be squashed on train, tram or bus. There are threads on this forum regularly about unpleasant bus, tram or train journeys in Dublin...

I'm actually visiting Hong Kong at the moment. Their MTR is fantastic - as a result most people don't need to drive (or own a car). Trains run every 2 minutes, they are NEVER overcrowded even at peak times, it's comfortable, it's extremely affordable and there are no scobes hanging around stations or on trains. It's basically everything that the transport system in Dublin is not. I wouldn't dream of owning a car in Hong Kong, I would more than likely be driving to work if I lived in Dublin right now.

Also, just to note that Hong Kong has no bus lanes and no traffic jams. They build good wide roads here. Buses and cars co-exist and move freely on the roads. Hong Kong doesn't seem to subscribe to the same logic as Dublin which is to encourage people to switch to public transport simply by making car use more difficult. Transport is a 'free market' in HK, people choose the best option which is the MTR. Dublin's focus should be on getting the full MN and DU done as soon as possible. Then ditch all of these different brands (DART, Luas, Metro) and have an integrated, single brand transit system which is seamless to use. Realistically that is what it will take to get a large number of people out of their cars (and also reduce the need for diesel fume spewing buses around Dublin).

Nino Brown

porsche959 wrote: »

Doesn't look good that we are at 73% and UK is at 57%.

Yeah but if you consider how many people live in London, where most probably use the underground, the statistics are skewed. Take out London, and I'd say we're much closer.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

KevR

Nino Brown wrote: »

Yeah but if you consider how many people live in London, where most probably use the underground, the statistics are skewed. Take out London, and I'd say we're much closer.

Get Dublin's public transport system right and the figure for Ireland could be similarly skewed. This would be a very good thing obviously.

corktina

i think the use of scooters should be encouraged rather than car use. Many cars only have one occupant anyway and switching to a scooter would free up a lot of road space. Safer and quicker than a bike I would judge

Jawgap

I think housing and development policies have a lot to answer for, as well as public transport options - which are ok in Dublin, but pretty pathetic once you go outside the capital.

But there also remains the fact that Irish people love their cars!

The place I was working in last year had a big push a while ago to get people to give up their cars - mainly because they wanted to save on the car parking bills.

They pushed taxsaver, they pushed the cycle to work scheme and they pushed carpooling. They put a lot of 'soft incentives' in to help - for example, they revamped (and really poshed up) the showers and changing facilities (adding pretty big lockers), they ran a couple of raffles for things like ten journey tickets and Leap Card credit (to encourage people to at least try an alternative to the car) and organised coffee mornings with posh coffee and pastries for the "Commuter Club."

I think after about 6 months of trying only 2 people had switched from cars to public transport - this despite the fact that out of 120+ staff at the start of the process, over 80 were car commuters and of those 80 about 75% lived within 20km of the office and just under half lived within 10km.

elastico

cgcsb wrote: »

when rural dwellers demand equal service provision to urban dwellers below market cost.

People in the country pay more for electricity than those in the city.

As for water the biggest issue seems to be the greater Dublin area with just the small liffey for supply, the rest of the cities have big rivers to supply them and smaller populations.

bk

elastico wrote: »

People in the country pay more for electricity than those in the city.

Yes, they do, but actually not enough to actually cover the extra cost of rural electricity, it is actually still subsisdised by urban dwellers and one of the reasons why we have one of the highest average electricity costs in Europe!

Ireland has a hugely inefficient electricity supply network. The ESB is forced to maintain more than three times the length of distribution circuit per customer as compared to, for example, the UK. To avoid voltage drop over this extended network, at least one transformer for every square kilometre is needed in almost 75% of the area supplied by the ESB. This means that Ireland has almost one third the number of transformers as in the UK despite having a total distribution network of just half the size and 6% of its population. The higher connection charge levied on rural inhabitants (which incidentally applies not only to one-off rural dwellers but all rural areas) only accounts for half the actual cost of connection due to a ceiling imposed by the CER. In addition, unit prices are the same in urban and rural areas and as a consequence rural dwellers do not incur subsequent charges associated with the significant maintenance requirements of the extra length of power line (particularly due to falling trees etc) or the profligate loss of electricity due to the inefficient and lengthy network.

https://oneoffireland.wordpress.com/economic-costs/

bk

Jawgap wrote: »

They pushed taxsaver, they pushed the cycle to work scheme and they pushed carpooling. They put a lot of 'soft incentives' in to help - for example, they revamped (and really poshed up) the showers and changing facilities (adding pretty big lockers), they ran a couple of raffles for things like ten journey tickets and Leap Card credit (to encourage people to at least try an alternative to the car) and organised coffee mornings with posh coffee and pastries for the "Commuter Club."

I think after about 6 months of trying only 2 people had switched from cars to public transport - this despite the fact that out of 120+ staff at the start of the process, over 80 were car commuters and of those 80 about 75% lived within 20km of the office and just under half lived within 10km.

In my office, the major transport issue we have is lack of bicycle parking!

Really, the bike shed is absolutely jam packed every day, to such a great extent that bikes are pretty much locked to every light pole and railing in the business park.

My company is talking about building three new bike sheds to handle demand just for my building alone!!!

corktina

elastico wrote: »

People in the country pay more for electricity than those in the city.

As for water the biggest issue seems to be the greater Dublin area with just the small liffey for supply, the rest of the cities have big rivers to supply them and smaller populations.

define country, I don't live in a City but I don't live in the Countryside either.

elastico

corktina wrote: »

define country, I don't live in a City but I don't live in the Countryside either.

ESB actually define it as urban or rural, its best ask them how they define it, I don't know.

MGWR

18MonthsaSlave wrote: »

http://www.carscoops.com/2015/01/which-eu-country-prefers-commuting-by.html

...as if Irish Commuters had any other viable alternative.

The government keeps ripping up railways and building motorways that people don't want in their back yards. They set the policy, and all the commuters can do is follow...that is, for as long as they put up with the government.

BoJack Horseman

MGWR wrote: »

The government keeps ripping up railways

Where?

cgcsb

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Where?

Rosslare-Waterford was the most recent, before that Mullingar-Athlone, etc. Granted not routes that are competing with motorways in any meaningful way.

Godge

cgcsb wrote: »

Rosslare-Waterford was the most recent, before that Mullingar-Athlone, etc. Granted not routes that are competing with motorways in any meaningful way.

They are not commuter routes.

Tenzor07

bk wrote: »

In my office, the major transport issue we have is lack of bicycle parking!
Really, the bike shed is absolutely jam packed every day, to such a great extent that bikes are pretty much locked to every light pole and railing in the business park.
My company is talking about building three new bike sheds to handle demand just for my building alone!!!

The "bike shed" at the office doubles up as a smoking shed too, and usually only has a small handful of bikes most of the time.
This is despite a number of staff living up to 6 or less Km's away.

I can totally believe this survey though, number 1 reason may be due to lack of proper public transport, though with Pure Laziness being close up behind it..

BoatMad

MGWR wrote: »

The government keeps ripping up railways and building motorways that people don't want in their back yards. They set the policy, and all the commuters can do is follow...that is, for as long as they put up with the government.

motorways are the best ( only ) great thing that came out of the celtic tiger, thank god we built them when we did, cause now wed have been stuck with the sh1Te that passed for a national primary system.

hurray.

View

Godge wrote: »

They are not commuter routes.

In the case of the Mullingar-Athlone route, it could be as it would mean connections to Connolly and the IFSC.

hardanro

Just compare the transport monthly passes in Ireland and other countries in europe and you got your answer, why the car usage for commuting is so high in Ireland.
Most of the countries have 50-100 Euro for a monthly pass. Dublin monthly pass is 132.
Countries with the cheapest public transport also have the lowest car usage percentage.
Pure and simple, it's not worth it to use something which is less comfortable, more time-consuming and often more expensive than a car. Buses have lost their meaning in Ireland

monument

KevR wrote: »

I'm actually visiting Hong Kong at the moment. Their MTR is fantastic - as a result most people don't need to drive (or own a car). Trains run every 2 minutes, they are NEVER overcrowded even at peak times, it's comfortable, it's extremely affordable and there are no scobes hanging around stations or on trains. It's basically everything that the transport system in Dublin is not. I wouldn't dream of owning a car in Hong Kong, I would more than likely be driving to work if I lived in Dublin right now.

And Hong Kong has what population again?

As for no overcrowding at rush hour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Ewf09o0t4

There's lines in Hong Kong where trains run at nearly 1 per min, with 8 carriages and when you're on the right platform you don't have to worry which train to take because both are traveling in the same direction!

KevR wrote: »

Also, just to note that Hong Kong has no bus lanes and no traffic jams. They build good wide roads here. Buses and cars co-exist and move freely on the roads. Hong Kong doesn't seem to subscribe to the same logic as Dublin which is to encourage people to switch to public transport simply by making car use more difficult. Transport is a 'free market' in HK, people choose the best option which is the MTR. Dublin's focus should be on getting the full MN and DU done as soon as possible. Then ditch all of these different brands (DART, Luas, Metro) and have an integrated, single brand transit system which is seamless to use. Realistically that is what it will take to get a large number of people out of their cars (and also reduce the need for diesel fume spewing buses around Dublin).

You might have rose-tinted glasses of Hong Kong: Just look at the Hong Kong artciles here: http://www.scmp.com/topics/traffic-congestion

This is just a snippet of one example:

"All too often we are reminded of worsening congestion or pollution on our roads. The latest example concerns both. The Transport Department says private car ownership in Hong Kong rose 25 per cent in a decade to 63.4 cars per 1,000 people last year, while the length of road per person rose by only 1.7 per cent in the same period. So we waste more time and suffer more stress getting anywhere while we breathe more polluted air."

They already have congestion at peak times and they'll have more fun with it as car ownership grows.

But sure if we pave over the Liffey and knock down a ton of houses and other building we too could have a Hong Kong-style road network.

Muahahaha

corktina wrote: »

i think the use of scooters should be encouraged rather than car use. Many cars only have one occupant anyway and switching to a scooter would free up a lot of road space. Safer and quicker than a bike I would judge

AFAIK a scooter takes up 2sqm of road space and a car 12sqm. Scooters are actually part of a viable solution to Dublins traffic problems but sadly recent law changes from the EU have made getting into riding any kind of moped or motorbike very restrictive and a lot more expensive than it used to be.

Cienciano

cgcsb wrote: »

The problem is our development pattern. 40% rural population, utterly unsustainable when rural dwellers demand equal service provision to urban dwellers below market cost. What we need is towns with sustainable infrastructure and an outright ban on ribbon development.

Not just that. I live and work within the M50 and a 20 minute car journey takes 1.5 hours each way on public transport. I used to work in the city centre and had parking (on the outskirts now) and it was far, far quicker to drive.
Public transport is great if you happen to live and work on a route, or you have no parking. But it's definitely easier to drive in the city on a lot of commutes.

One of the main problems is so few orbital routes. Getting from one edge of the city to another requires a bus into the city centre.

cdebru

Cienciano wrote: »

Not just that. I live and work within the M50 and a 20 minute car journey takes 1.5 hours each way on public transport. I used to work in the city centre and had parking (on the outskirts now) and it was far, far quicker to drive.
Public transport is great if you happen to live and work on a route, or you have no parking. But it's definitely easier to drive in the city on a lot of commutes.

One of the main problems is so few orbital routes. Getting from one edge of the city to another requires a bus into the city centre.

Cycling is by far the easiest way to get around the city, a 10km commute by bike is less than 30minutes, no bus or car can compete with that, and your commute time is regular, besides that it is far cheaper and you can even scrap the gym membership you never use. No parking nightmares you can go directly to whatever part of the city need to get to.

KevR

monument wrote: »

And Hong Kong has what population again?

As for no overcrowding at rush hour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4Ewf09o0t4

There's lines in Hong Kong where trains run at nearly 1 per min, with 8 carriages and when you're on the right platform you don't have to worry which train to take because both are traveling in the same direction!



You might have rose-tinted glasses of Hong Kong: Just look at the Hong Kong artciles here: http://www.scmp.com/topics/traffic-congestion

This is just a snippet of one example:

"All too often we are reminded of worsening congestion or pollution on our roads. The latest example concerns both. The Transport Department says private car ownership in Hong Kong rose 25 per cent in a decade to 63.4 cars per 1,000 people last year, while the length of road per person rose by only 1.7 per cent in the same period. So we waste more time and suffer more stress getting anywhere while we breathe more polluted air."

They already have congestion at peak times and they'll have more fun with it as car ownership grows.

But sure if we pave over the Liffey and knock down a ton of houses and other building we too could have a Hong Kong-style road network.

My main point obviously went straight over your head!! The OP talks about commuting habits and compares it to other countries. People were discussing the rural population. I made a valid point that rural population is only part of the reason why a high percentage of people in Ireland commute by car - the public transport network in Dublin is far from good enough. There is excellent scope for better public transport (rail) in Dublin which will give people there a really great alternative to driving.

I did not suggest that Dublin should have the exact same rail setup as Hong Kong (trains running every minute) so I'm unsure why you are asking about the population. Who is suggesting that we pave over the Liffey? I did highlight that in Dublin they try to encourage public transport use by making car use more difficult. Frankly, that approach can only be described as 'clutching at straws'. They need to invest in proper rail alternatives if there is to be a big switch away from car use in Dublin. That's where Metro North and DART Underground come in.

As for that video - quite possibly there was some sort of an issue on the rail network that day and a disgruntled passenger uploaded that video of the crowded platform. I have been using the Island line (the one shown in that video) at peak times daily for the past month and my experience has been very far removed from what you see in the video.

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/article/1435341/mtr-urged-review-capacity-measures-ease-train-crowding?page=all
The article mentions just one of the lines but it says 70% full based on the old calculation of 6 people per square metre. It is full with the new calculation of 4 people per square metre and they are proactively looking to increase capacity so they can maintain this level of passenger experience. 4 people per square metre is pretty decent!

From my experience, you generally have more personal space (refer to article) on the MTR than you would on the Luas for example. You often have people squashed up against you from every angle on the Luas! I think it is crazy that they are contemplating reducing Metro North platform lengths just to save €70 million. It can't be worth it in the long run. Capacity issues will be a real nightmare in the long term and passenger experience will surely take a hit.

If you don't agree that there is scope for massive public transport improvement in Dublin, how do you suggest that we move forward and improve things?

Regarding the South China Post's road traffic congestion articles - people from every city will always say and think that their traffic is "the worst". For every article you find in Hong Kong / Chinese media about traffic in Hong Kong, you will find an article about traffic congestion in Dublin in its own local media (or any other city for that matter). Of course there are some bottlenecks and pinch points in Hong Kong! However, from my experience traffic in Hong Kong generally flows better than it does in Dublin.

Seaswimmer

Muahahaha wrote: »

AFAIK a scooter takes up 2sqm of road space and a car 12sqm. Scooters are actually part of a viable solution to Dublins traffic problems but sadly recent law changes from the EU have made getting into riding any kind of moped or motorbike very restrictive and a lot more expensive than it used to be.

slightly OT but is there any push to allow scooters and motorbikes use bus lanes? I think if bus lanes were opened up to them then with a bit of advertising and marketing we could switch some people from cars.

Cienciano

cdebru wrote: »

Cycling is by far the easiest way to get around the city, a 10km commute by bike is less than 30minutes, no bus or car can compete with that, and your commute time is regular, besides that it is far cheaper and you can even scrap the gym membership you never use. No parking nightmares you can go directly to whatever part of the city need to get to.

Cycling doesn't suit everyone. My commute comes up with a journey time of 52 minutes on a bike on google. From my experience a motorbike is the best way to get around Dublin city. Quicker than a bicycle, not as miserable, especially in weather like we had the last 10 days, fairly high winds and cold. No need for a shower at work and can wear normal clothes under waterproofs, can cover longer distances easier. Disadvantages is you still need a gym membership and it's far more expensive.

Seaswimmer wrote: »

slightly OT but is there any push to allow scooters and motorbikes use bus lanes? I think if bus lanes were opened up to them then with a bit of advertising and marketing we could switch some people from cars.

You can't use them on a motorbike officially, but no gardai will stop you. Even dedicated gardai bus lane checks will just wave you on.

cdebru

Cienciano wrote: »

Cycling doesn't suit everyone. My commute comes up with a journey time of 52 minutes on a bike on google. From my experience a motorbike is the best way to get around Dublin city. Quicker than a bicycle, not as miserable, especially in weather like we had the last 10 days, fairly high winds and cold. No need for a shower at work and can wear normal clothes under waterproofs, can cover longer distances easier. Disadvantages is you still need a gym membership and it's far more expensive.

You can't use them on a motorbike officially, but no gardai will stop you. Even dedicated gardai bus lane checks will just wave you on.

No one method will suit everyone, weather is overplayed as an excuse not to cycle, I have cycled everyday the last 10 days, nothing miserable about it, it only appears cold and miserable when you're not cycling, you get cold on a motorbike because you are just sitting there cycling you are working cold is not a problem. You don't have to wear lycra to cycle btw,

Pinch Flat

cdebru wrote: »

Cycling is by far the easiest way to get around the city, a 10km commute by bike is less than 30minutes, no bus or car can compete with that, and your commute time is regular, besides that it is far cheaper and you can even scrap the gym membership you never use. No parking nightmares you can go directly to whatever part of the city need to get to.

I agree. I live just outside the m50 and cycle to Dublin City centre daily. Why anyone would drive it is beyond me, but there's a few masochists in the office who wouldn't travel any other way. Some are of a generation where the car was always a part of their lives - even in Dublin. So ferrying to and from school, activities and general areas that are well within walking distance.

Laziness though is a key factor. Some neighbours of mine will drive and park (and pay) at the local train station where It's a 10 minute walk away. Similarly I had a work colleague in a previous job who used to drive 500m from his apartment to the office (and back again at lunch). He complained of having no exercise and putting on weight - my suggestion to walk this was met with horror.

So it's horses for courses - for me a 5km walk to work is doable (have done so in the past - about 50 mins at a brisk pace) and I've looked previously at jobs that would involve a 30km commute by bike.

I cycle 13km to work - have done 20km previously. it's about 40 minutes door to door regardless of traffic and most weather (ie rain).

cgcsb

If people can cycle in their hundreds of thousands in wintery Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Stockholm and Helsinki then there's hardly an excuse in one of Europe's mildest climates. The problem with transport in Dublin is basically two issues:

1) low capacity public transport
2) no integrated ticketing

They are the big issues, everything else is a small technical problem. The NTA have had 6 years to make leap an integrated ticketing solution. So far nadda.

Various governments have dithered on DARTu and MetroN in various forms since 1976, which could add huge capacity through the City Centre, so far nadda.

Jawgap

Cienciano wrote: »

Cycling doesn't suit everyone. My commute comes up with a journey time of 52 minutes on a bike on google. From my experience a motorbike is the best way to get around Dublin city. Quicker than a bicycle, not as miserable, especially in weather like we had the last 10 days, fairly high winds and cold. No need for a shower at work and can wear normal clothes under waterproofs, can cover longer distances easier. Disadvantages is you still need a gym membership and it's far more expensive.

.......

Well it might be the quickest way, but is it the 'best' way? I think for anyone living around Dublin within 10 to 12 km of their workplace the bike is your only man.

Kilometer for kilometer cycling is the cheapest and most effective mode of moving around the city. You don't have to pay for insurance, road tax etc and you don't have to pay for a gym membership.

I agree, however, that it won't be attractive to everyone for a diverse range of reasons. I think though it suffers from the same 'image' problems scooters and motorbikes suffer from - it's dangerous; the weather is unsuitable; sweatiness; helmet hair etc

I used to do a ridiculously long commute (50km each way) which could take up to two hours - that's a long time I hear you say and it is for a commute. I didn't do it every day, but on the days I did it would take a total of about 3.5 hrs - if I drove it would take about 90 mins - however, if I drove and used the gym that would easily take the same time chunk out of my day.

The only added expenditure associated with doing a long commute by bike is food!

KevR

Seaswimmer wrote: »

slightly OT but is there any push to allow scooters and motorbikes use bus lanes? I think if bus lanes were opened up to them then with a bit of advertising and marketing we could switch some people from cars.

Would a motorbike be more efficient from a road space usage point of view than say a car with 3+ occupants?

I would be very much in favor of Galway City doing a trial with a number of its bus lanes. Open them up to cars with 3+ occupants (HOV lanes) for 6 months and see what happens. If it works well, it could be made permanent. If it doesn't work, switch back to bus lanes. The Seamus Quirke Road would be an ideal place to trial it in my opinion. Unfortunately, this idea was proposed and then shot down all too quickly.

BoatMad

KevR wrote: »

Would a motorbike be more efficient from a road space usage point of view than say a car with 3+ occupants?

I would be very much in favor of Galway City doing a trial with a number of its bus lanes. Open them up to cars with 3+ occupants (HOV lanes) for 6 months and see what happens. If it works well, it could be made permanent. If it doesn't work, switch back to bus lanes. The Seamus Quirke Road would be an ideal place to trial it in my opinion. Unfortunately, this idea was proposed and then shot down all too quickly.

Absolutely , bus lanes are a shocking waste of road space, and carry far fewer passengers per sq Km of road area, then peak cars. Additional space as bus lanes isn't a bad idea, but scavenging space from editing roads is nonsense, as is 24 hours bus lanes etc. Imagine suggesting a piece of road should be forbidden to other roads users, let there is no actual other public transport using it at that time.

Utter nonsense, just like the port tunnel, a piece of expensive infrastructure largely empty.

Pinch Flat

Port tunnel takes hundred of lorries off the quays everyday, so not exactly largely empty.

If it was open to the private car on the same pricing as the other tolls around Dublin it would quickly become clogged up.

BoatMad

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Port tunnel takes hundred of lorries off the quays everyday, so not exactly largely empty.

If it was open to the private car on the same pricing as the other tolls around Dublin it would quickly become clogged up.

why not drop the tolls to zero after a certain key time for trucks

I mean have you driven it in the middle of the day, often you are the only vehicle in it.

maninasia

Muahahaha wrote: »

AFAIK a scooter takes up 2sqm of road space and a car 12sqm. Scooters are actually part of a viable solution to Dublins traffic problems but sadly recent law changes from the EU have made getting into riding any kind of moped or motorbike very restrictive and a lot more expensive than it used to be.

Electric scooters and electric bikes are a great alternative to cars for short commutes. Traditional scooters are polluting and can be noisy. But electric scooters and bikes...massive potential and very convenient and cheap too. Problem in Ireland specifically would probably be theft and vandalism related.
Check out gogoro...just one of many innovative electric vehicles being developed worldwide.

http://www.gogoro.com/about/press/

In China electric scooters and bikes are everywhere but there are rumours that some cities will ban them due to poor driving behaviour, which doesn't make sense if you've seen the average Chinese car driver!

Within 10 years a confluence of electric vehicles and autonomous driving vehicles could make things very different in terms of getting around in dispersed areas. But to handle masses of people efficiently at rush hours in urban areas..nothing beats a modern subway system.

BoatMad

maninasia wrote: »

Electric scooters and electric bikes are a great alternative to cars for short commutes. Traditional scooters are polluting and can be noisy. But electric scooters and bikes...massive potential and very convenient and cheap too. Problem in Ireland specifically would probably be theft and vandalism related.
Check out gogoro...just one of many innovative electric vehicles being developed worldwide.

http://www.gogoro.com/about/press/

In China electric scooters and bikes are everywhere but there are rumours that some cities will ban them due to poor driving behaviour, which doesn't make sense if you've seen the average Chinese car driver!

Within 10 years a confluence of electric vehicles and autonomous driving vehicles could make things very different in terms of getting around in dispersed areas. But to handle masses of people efficiently at rush hours in urban areas..nothing beats a modern subway system.

LOL electric scooters, I can see the partner carrying home the weekly shopping in that , and where do the 3 kids go !!!

maninasia

Pinch Flat wrote: »

I agree. I live just outside the m50 and cycle to Dublin City centre daily. Why anyone would drive it is beyond me, but there's a few masochists in the office who wouldn't travel any other way. Some are of a generation where the car was always a part of their lives - even in Dublin. So ferrying to and from school, activities and general areas that are well within walking distance.

Laziness though is a key factor. Some neighbours of mine will drive and park (and pay) at the local train station where It's a 10 minute walk away. Similarly I had a work colleague in a previous job who used to drive 500m from his apartment to the office (and back again at lunch). He complained of having no exercise and putting on weight - my suggestion to walk this was met with horror.

So it's horses for courses - for me a 5km walk to work is doable (have done so in the past - about 50 mins at a brisk pace) and I've looked previously at jobs that would involve a 30km commute by bike.

I cycle 13km to work - have done 20km previously. it's about 40 minutes door to door regardless of traffic and most weather (ie rain).

Most 'lazy' people will remain 'lazy'. So give them a means of propulsion that doesn't involve too much exercise, wouldn't it just make sense that they can use electric bikes?

maninasia

BoatMad wrote: »

LOL electric scooters, I can see the partner carrying home the weekly shopping in that , and where do the 3 kids go !!!

Yes you could carry the weekly shopping on a scooter, millions do. But actually more people these days don't do weekly shopping.

Anyway...a scooter is not designed for carrying lots of people, but for quick trips for one or two people max. It does that very well and very economically.

The electric scooter is a huge advance compared to old scooters due to it's zero tail gate emissions.

Jawgap

BoatMad wrote: »

LOL electric scooters, I can see the partner carrying home the weekly shopping in that , and where do the 3 kids go !!!

The question is not where do the three kids go, the question is if you only have three kids what do you do with all the vacant space

Pinch Flat

BoatMad wrote: »

why not drop the tolls to zero after a certain key time for trucks

I mean have you driven it in the middle of the day, often you are the only vehicle in it.

It's i think €3 off peak - which is reasonable. It still has to get paid for in some shape or form - it is a public private partnership, not a charity that's running it

BoatMad

maninasia wrote: »

Most 'lazy' people will remain 'lazy'. So give them a means of propulsion that doesn't involve too much exercise, wouldn't it just make sense that they can use electric bikes?

perhaps you could reduce their food supply legally too!!

sheeesh talk about justifications

We live in a demand oriented society, people will use the form of transport they like

cgcsb

Provided public transport is sorted out, I'd say a congestion charge is the way forward, ringfencing the money collected for further infrastructure improvements

BoatMad

cgcsb wrote: »

Provided public transport is sorted out, I'd say a congestion charge is the way forward, ringfencing the money collected for further infrastructure improvements

infrastructure improvements

you mean more roads in Dublin , good idea, we definitely need an eastern ring to finish the M50. with all those high sped electric cars in the next 50 years , we need to engineer our roads for better speeds too. I mean the tesla can do 0-60 in 4 secs, and its only at the start of the technology curve.

BoatMad

cgcsb wrote: »

Provided public transport is sorted out, ....

that will never happen

Pinch Flat

BoatMad wrote: »

Absolutely , bus lanes are a shocking waste of road space, and carry far fewer passengers per sq Km of road area, then peak cars.

Do you have anything to back this up? I'm fininding it hard to imagine 80 single occupant cars taking up less road space than a full double decker bus or packed Luas.

Where I do see these as a waste of road space is where we have 24 hour bus lanes for a non existent 24 hour bus services.

BoatMad

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Do you have anything to back this up? I'm fininding it hard to imagine 80 single occupant cars taking up less road space than a full double decker bus or packed Luas.

Where I do see these as a waste of road space is where we have 24 hour bus lanes for a non existent 24 hour bus services.

Its simple logic,

stand beside a busy early morning bus lane , bedside a two carriageway road. say at cabinteely

Count buses in a half hour period, count cars in the same half hour period

assume nominal full bus and 1 person per car for worst case analysis, try it again at a 1.5 people per car average.

Bus lanes make sense where busses are extremely frequent and fill the lanes space. in rush hour traffic cars do fill the same space.

It makes for interesting counting

Do the same thing on say the Nangor road and its even more surprising


essentially far more people pass in cars in a given time period


Luas is actually better because of numberscarried per train set