Rogue cyclists set to face on-the-spot fines MOD WARNING in first post

gadetra wrote: »

Really? I did not know about the Sam Browne belt thing or reflective strips. I thought reflectors and front and back lights covered it?

The wording is should tho, I know u can be summonsed for no reflectors as well as no lights.
My point about it is people have been cycling ages, there's always been laws regarding it. Enforcing it is the hard part.
It's just politicians bandwagoning it "look at me I'm great I'm bringing in new law I'm justifying my existence and it costs feck all" people will always do stupid things on bikes and in cars, sometimes u get caught, sometimes u get away with it.....sometimes somebody gets hurt then it becomes a visible problem ....

pedro_colnago wrote: »

Traffic laws that are ALREADY in existence.
We need to get real in relation to how we use the roads. Take responsiblity for how we use the roads on a bike car or otherwise. New laws aren't the issue.
Read the rules of the road, pretty much every eventually is covered already in those.

So what, abolish all enforcement by guards of the traffic laws and leave it up to the citizenry? I don't see what kind of realistic solution or counterpoint you are proposing here... Guards are too busy, yeh, everyone knows that. What's that got to do with FPNs? Or do you mean they should just keep ignoring the laws that are being broken regardless of FPNs?

FPNs are about improving the enforcement of the rules of the road. Rules which are ignored on a daily basis.

odyssey06 wrote: »

So what, abolish all enforcement by guards of the traffic laws and leave it up to the citizenry? I don't see what kind of realistic solution or counterpoint you are proposing here... Guards are too busy, yeh, everyone knows that. What's that got to do with FPNs? Or do you mean they should just keep ignoring the laws that are being broken regardless of FPNs?


FPNs are about improving the enforcement of the rules of the road. Rules which are ignored on a daily basis.

Okayyyyy Yeah that's what I'm saying ..... Rolls eyes
I'm saying there are rules already there, they have been there since people started cycling and driving, if the government were serious about enforcing road traffic laws they would increase garda numbers instead of bringing in "new" laws (the cheap option and the headline grabber)
Secondly my point is people break road traffic laws all the time, they give out when they are caught. If we cycled or drove with more personal responsibility we wouldn't have to rely solely on garda enforcement in the first place. The gardai act as a deterrent they can't be everywhere so when there not on every corner or road then personal responsibilty then comes into it. Does that clarify it a little more for you?

pedro_colnago wrote: »

Read the rules of the road handbook it's all in there... section 17, it relates to pedal cycles. All in black and white

Is it in the legislation though? Reflectors and lights are a legal requirement.

pedro_colnago wrote: »

That's what I said it states should wear these items in addition to the lights and reflectors which are a legal requirement

Wearing those items isnt a legal requirement. Rules of the road handbook is not legislation.

pedro_colnago wrote: »

I'm saying there are rules already there, they have been there since people started cycling and driving, if the government were serious about enforcing road traffic laws they would increase garda numbers instead of bringing in "new" laws (the cheap option and the headline grabber)
Secondly my point is people break road traffic laws all the time, they give out when they are caught. If we cycled or drove with more personal responsibility we wouldn't have to rely solely on garda enforcement in the first place. The gardai act as a deterrent they can't be everywhere so when there not on every corner or road then personal responsibilty then comes into it. Does that clarify it a little more for you?

I don't see any reason why we shouldn't have both. No one is saying that FPNs should be in lieu of actual Gardai. And if we don't have the resources for more Gardai right now (which is a totally separate discussion), legal devices such as FPNs that means Gardai can apply the laws more efficiently are to be encouraged.

If the primary purpose of the Gardai and laws is deterrence, then there's a game of bluff going on to some extent... and if the idea of FPNs helps awaken "a little policeman" in the head of cyclists to encourage them to obey the laws that exist, then they are a good thing.

Similarly, penalty points for motorists where they changed the application of the law on existing motoring offences (I agree with you about ridiculous ones like smoking) were primarily about this deterrence idea through better application. Now, they have a long way to go but they are a vast improvement on what was there before.

Finally, the state of enforcement of cycling laws is so poor in Dublin city centre right now, I don't think it would improve with twice the number of Gardai unless they get some indication from above that it's a priority. FPNs could be a step in that direction.

odyssey06 wrote: »

I don't see any reason why we shouldn't have both. No one is saying that FPNs should be in lieu of actual Gardai. And if we don't have the resources for more Gardai right now (which is a totally separate discussion), legal devices such as FPNs that means Gardai can apply the laws more efficiently are to be encouraged.

If the primary purpose of the Gardai and laws is deterrence, then there's a game of bluff going on to some extent... and if the idea of FPNs helps awaken "a little policeman" in the head of cyclists to encourage them to obey the laws that exist, then they are a good thing.

Similarly, penalty points for motorists where they changed the application of the law on existing motoring offences (I agree with you about ridiculous ones like smoking) were primarily about this deterrence idea through better application. Now, they have a long way to go but they are a vast improvement on what was there before.

Finally, the state of enforcement of cycling laws is so poor in Dublin city centre right now, I don't think it would improve with twice the number of Gardai unless they get some indication from above that it's a priority. FPNs could be a step in that direction.

Good points raised. I do believe that cyclists aren't the problem the vast majority of times, I cycle most days, I encounter drivers that don't have a clue about how to drive a car not to mind how to deal with cyclists on the road. My point is if People drove as per the rules of the road there would never be actually be an accident. The vast majority of accidents are caused by driver (human) error. New laws or streamlined application of old laws won't unfortunately prevent people doing stupid things. It may prevent an idiot cyclist from going out on the road in the dark without taking sensible precautions as regards to reflectors or lights tho

OldBean wrote: »

The handbook you've mentioned is not the law, but appears to be the 'advice and tips' of the RSA handbook. Have a read of this link, which is the actual law:]

I'm well aware it's not the law thank you
At no stage did I say it's the law. I'm well aware of the road traffic legislation. The point I have made is if everyone applied the rules of the road there wouldn't be accidents. As I'm no doubt you are aware you must have a satisfactory knowledge of the rules of the road before you are deemed suitable to hold a full driving licence. You are not required to sit an exam as regards the irish statuettes in relation to road traffic law.
Perhaps you should refer to the rules of the road rather than the road traffic legislation before u either cycle or drive on a public road in Ireland in future?

pedro_colnago wrote: »

OldBean wrote: »

The handbook you've mentioned is not the law, but appears to be the 'advice and tips' of the RSA handbook. Have a read of this link, which is the actual law:]

I'm well aware it's not the law thank you
At no stage did I say it's the law. I'm well aware of the road traffic legislation. The point I have made is if everyone applied the rules of the road there wouldn't be accidents. As I'm no doubt you are aware you must have a satisfactory knowledge of the rules of the road before you are deemed suitable to hold a full driving licence. You are not required to sit an exam as regards the irish statuettes in relation to road traffic law.
Perhaps you should refer to the rules of the road rather than the road traffic legislation before u either cycle or drive on a public road in Ireland in future?

When a guard pulls you over if you're brealing the law, it'll be the relevant aw room you're being charged under that will be in the charge, not the rilea of the road.

pedro_colnago wrote: »

Read it again. It says the law relates to lights and reflectors this should according to the rules of the road be accompanied with reflective clothing.

Lights and reflectors on bike = law
Sam brown belt etc = RSA recommendations

I know it's law because I was done for having no lights or reflectors on the bike when I was kid years ago.

pedro_colnago wrote: »

Read it again. It says the law relates to lights and reflectors this should according to the rules of the road be accompanied with reflective clothing.

Lights and reflectors on bike = law
Sam brown belt etc = RSA recommendations

It would have been helpful to make that distinction in your earlier post, you seemed to imply that both were law.

pedro_colnago wrote: »

It highlights the relevant road traffic legislation. That's why it's called the rules of the road. My point is that if people read the rules of the road there would be less accidents.

You have to read them critically though, as they're written very much from the point of view of the driver of a car. Blindly following the recommendations in the Rules of the Road as a cyclist could get you badly hurt. For example, they recommend to always use cycle tracks where provided; they don't point out that the ones that lead you straight through a junction while leaving you inside the left-turn lane for motorised traffic are better ignored, or at least used with extreme caution.

The relevancy and efficacy of conspicuity aids themselves are discussed in the hiviz megathread.