Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

Pro. F · 13-01-2015 02:55PM

adox wrote: »

Muller Rooney Mata would be a tasty front 3 in a 433.

It could be very tasty all right, although it would lack pace and defensive work rate imo, so we'd have to have a midfield capable of dominating possession behind them. Di Maria, Herrera (if he realises his potential) and a new DM I suppose. I don't think Carrick or Blind are up to that task.

13-01-2015 02:57PM

v3ttel wrote: »

I'm really hoping with stop with the back 3. I don't think it suits the PL at all, and I'm hoping he reverts to 4, when he gets out and out full backs match fit, as LVG suggested he might.

At this stage, I'd be happy to go back to a traditional 4-4-2:

Rafael, Smalling, Rojo, Blind,
Val, Carrick, Herrera, Di Maria
Rooney, Falcao

with wingers that want to take people on to commit defenders and have the ability to cross the ball, full backs that want to overlap, and a team that are determined enough to create blood and thunder, rather than letting games peter out, if things aren't going well, and outstanding players up front.

Then again, that's what I've watched United teams do for the last 25 years or so.

I really don't understand how people can still have Smalling in the team. Looked poor against a League 1 outfit just a week or so ago and that's worst player on the pitch poor. Evans and Jones far better options, Evans hasn't gotten a go on the right side of defense due to him being a better footballer than the other 2 which is something I want to see with Rojo coming back.

Trond · 13-01-2015 02:58PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

No pace to stretch the defence and all 3 far more comfortable centrally. It would be a terrible front 3, imo.

At least one of the 3 has to be comfortable taking on the full back - you'd need a player like Robben, Ronaldo, Bale etc. I was saying last summer (when 433 looked likely) that Sanchez should have been a top target and Welbeck would be a very usefull player to us.

Really, I know longer claim to have any clue what LVG is trying to create - his signings, imo, lack forward planning. There seems to be no real plan on how to use Falcao, Di Maria or Herrera. It seems those players were signed because they could be, rather than because their talents were required for a particular role.

Looking at the signings in total, I don't see how we are moving towards any particular formation, apart from 442 (diamond) but we don't seem to be going back to that either.

If he wanted to play 352, he needed more defenders. to play 433 he needed wingers.

Agree completely re that front 3 but to be fair none of 3 players mentioned after that were really "his" signings.

Well Mata and Herrera certainly. Not like he was ever going to say no to Di Maria.

TheDoc · 13-01-2015 02:58PM

Pro. F wrote: »

It could be very tasty all right, although it would lack pace and defensive work rate imo, so we'd have to have a midfield capable of dominating possession behind them. Di Maria, Herrera (if he realises his potential) and a new DM I suppose. I don't think Carrick or Blind are up to that task.

Have to disagree.

I thought that the combination of Blind, Herrera and Di Maria looked really promising in the few games they had together. Then Falcao arrived and ****ed it all up with Rooney having to be accommodated.

Mitch Connor · 13-01-2015 02:59PM

Liam O wrote: »

I really don't understand how people can still have Smalling in the team. Looked poor against a League 1 outfit just a week or so ago and that's worst player on the pitch poor. Evans and Jones far better options, Evans hasn't gotten a go on the right side of defense due to him being a better footballer than the other 2 which is something I want to see with Rojo coming back.

personally I think Smalling and Rojo have been the most impressive defenders for us - that isn't saying much, but they have outperformed Jones, Evans, Blacket, McNair.

TheDoc · 13-01-2015 02:59PM

Liam O wrote: »

I really don't understand how people can still have Smalling in the team. Looked poor against a League 1 outfit just a week or so ago and that's worst player on the pitch poor. Evans and Jones far better options, Evans hasn't gotten a go on the right side of defense due to him being a better footballer than the other 2 which is something I want to see with Rojo coming back.

As much as Smalling has done well at times this season, there is something about him. He makes me uneasy, he looks a bit dopey and I get the feeling he's a second away from an absolute howler. Just one of those feelings, must prefer Jones, Rojo above all. Really taken a liking to Rojo.

Blatter · 13-01-2015 03:00PM

I'm not a massive fan of the diamond formation but I prefer it a damn site better than 3 at the back.

With the diamond we played well: v QPR for 90 mins (OK, not saying much!), 60 mins v Leicester, 45 mins v West Ham (Rooney then got sent off early in the 2nd half), 60 mins v Everton, v Hull for 90 mins, v Stoke at home for most of the game bar the last few mins.

Those are all of the occasions we played with the diamond. The team were having problems late on in games for some reason but doing reasonably well for large periods.

With 3 at the back we played well: v Newcastle at home for 90 mins, v Spurs for 45 mins, v Liverpool in parts (although we were horrendous defensively, we were just lucky that they were too and our GK had a stormer!)

We were pretty gash against, Swansea, Sunderland, MK Dons, Burnley, Arsenal, Southampton home and away, Villa, Stoke away and bloody Yeovil (despite having a strong team out their keeper hadn't had to make a save of note for 60 mins, took a wonder strike to break the deadlock)

The fact we had both Rafael and Shaw both on the pitch at the start v Yeovil yet still went with 3 at the back would lead me to believe that it became van Gaal's first choice formaton at that point.

If he doesn't cop on and change we'll struggle to get top 4 imo.

Mitch Connor · 13-01-2015 03:01PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Have to disagree.

I thought that the combination of Blind, Herrera and Di Maria looked really promising in the few games they had together. Then Falcao arrived and ****ed it all up with Rooney having to be accommodated.

Indeed - one of the 3 main forwards should be benched each game, for the sake of balance.

Blind/Carrick
---Herrera

Di Maria

Mata

Rooney--RVP/Falcao

Could, of course, play Rooney in the hole instead of Mata.

Mitch Connor · 13-01-2015 03:04PM

TheDoc wrote: »

As much as Smalling has done well at times this season, there is something about him. He makes me uneasy, he looks a bit dopey and I get the feeling he's a second away from an absolute howler. Just one of those feelings, must prefer Jones, Rojo above all. Really taken a liking to Rojo.

Would have the same feeling about all our defenders, myself. Rojo terrifies me with his love of bombing on and commiting the opposition before passing, splitseconds off losing possesion so much!

Blatter · 13-01-2015 03:10PM

I actually really like Rojo, he's looked better than I expected. In the game against City he was keeping up with Aguero and defended well against him one v one a few times before he had to go off injured.

Obviously he isn't the finished article but at 24 he looks a good buy for £16m in today's market. It's an added bonus that he can play left back too.

Pro. F · 13-01-2015 03:14PM

TheDoc wrote: »

Have to disagree.

I thought that the combination of Blind, Herrera and Di Maria looked really promising in the few games they had together. Then Falcao arrived and ****ed it all up with Rooney having to be accommodated.

I think that was QPR, Leicester and West Ham. Some good signs all right, but I can't say I was anywhere near so impressed that I would think we have any chance of becoming a proper possession dominating team. What I'm talking about - what I think would be needed in order to make a front three of Muller, Rooney and Mata work - is a Guardiola-team-like ability to dominate possession, against any opposition. I certainly haven't seen any signs of that from Blind.

Mitch Connor · 13-01-2015 03:14PM

Blatter wrote: »

I actually really like Rojo, he's looked better than I expected. In the game against City he was keeping up with Aguero and defended well against him one v one a few times before he had to go off injured.

Obviously he isn't the finished article but at 24 he looks a good buy for £16m in today's market. It's an added bonus that he can play left back too.

Was in the last Red Issue (and I had seen it said elsewhere) that of the CBs currently at United - Rojo and the youth team player Tuanzebe are seen as the future at United. Seemingly VERY high hopes for Tuanzebe.

Trond · 13-01-2015 03:16PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Was in the last Red Issue (and I had seen it said elsewhere) that of the CBs currently at United - Rojo and the youth team player Tuanzebe are seen as the future at United. Seemingly VERY high hopes for Tuanzebe.

I reckon Mensah might be a better prospect at the moment. Although maybe they see his future in midfield....

13-01-2015 03:48PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

personally I think Smalling and Rojo have been the most impressive defenders for us - that isn't saying much, but they have outperformed Jones, Evans, Blacket, McNair.

Smalling had a couple of good games in between 2 periods of really poor play at the start and recently. He's not great on the ball and is all over the place positioning wise, 2 things that I thought were his strengths after an impressive first season.

I think Evans is getting the short end of the stick because without Rojo and Blind he was the only one capable of playing the left side of the 3 which an out and out lefty would struggle with too. He's gotten less of a chance than Jones and Smalling to be the standout defender because he hasn't really played with the young lads.

Actually think Blackett should have been given that LCB role, have been impressed with him.

adox · 13-01-2015 04:04PM

Blatter wrote: »

I actually really like Rojo, he's looked better than I expected. In the game against City he was keeping up with Aguero and defended well against him one v one a few times before he had to go off injured.

Obviously he isn't the finished article but at 24 he looks a good buy for £16m in today's market. It's an added bonus that he can play left back too.

He is bar far the most comfortable defender we have with the ball at his feet, very calm and assured with it when pressed and his distribution is excellent, but I still have my doubts about him defensively.

Having said that, since his injury the bar has been set pretty low by the rest unfortunately.

Rayne Wooney · 13-01-2015 04:06PM

Pro. F wrote: »

And neither have the midfielders, nor the forwards playing in midfield.

The few times we played the diamond in there the midfield looked okay with some meaningful possession and passing that didn't always go out wide. I think if 3412/5212 is the set formation LVG may as well get rid of all the players because none look like they are learning or know what they're doing.

Van Gaal's attention to detail was one of the things most heard of when he was appointed, he apparently has a stat man who watches videos of games and reports back to him, it baffles me how he can see how ineffective our attacking is when we solely put the ball out wide but he hasn't changed it in almost 6 months now.

zerks wrote: »

The annoying thing is the forwards making runs & having good movement but then seeing the ball constantly being played wide and them having to fight to win crosses or watch the likes of Val smashing it against defenders or over their heads.The art of the through ball seems to be something we no longer embrace.

It's a shame because all our of our best goals this season have come from direct play rather than just crossing it into the box. The Mata/Falcao/Rooney goal was excellent

Irishcrx · 13-01-2015 04:15PM

I'm honestly starting to think we would be a better team without Rooney, particularly if we signed Falcao and let him get on with playing everygame and scoring goals. He looks to be causing more issues than he is solving trying to accomadate him in the team, I don't think he is going to work out in midfield long term like others, sure that diagnal ball accross to the wingers looks nice when it comes off but I don't see much else happening from him in there.

Rayne Wooney · 13-01-2015 04:18PM

We could get an average enough midfielder and pay him 1/4th of what Rooney gets to do the exact same job he does in midfield. Play him in an attacking role or don't play him at all

Irishcrx · 13-01-2015 04:26PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We could get an average enough midfielder and pay him 1/4th of what Rooney gets to do the exact same job he does in midfield. Play him in an attacking role or don't play him at all

Agree, he isn't earning anywhere near his 300k a week in midfield. He's not earning up front either. Falcao is a far better out and out striker than Rooney..

FutureGuy · 13-01-2015 04:29PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm honestly starting to think we would be a better team without Rooney, particularly if we signed Falcao and let him get on with playing everygame and scoring goals. He looks to be causing more issues than he is solving trying to accomadate him in the team, I don't think he is going to work out in midfield long term like others, sure that diagnal ball accross to the wingers looks nice when it comes off but I don't see much else happening from him in there.

Disagree. Don't sign Falcao and play Rooney up top where he can get 25 a season.

Nolars · 13-01-2015 04:30PM

Just reading on sky sports that we are paying the most wages each week, when you consider our squad v chelsea we have a LOT of deadwood. And do Rooney, Rvp play to the standard of their wages? absolutely not. Big shake up needed in the summer.

sky88 · 13-01-2015 04:32PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm honestly starting to think we would be a better team without Rooney, particularly if we signed Falcao and let him get on with playing everygame and scoring goals. He looks to be causing more issues than he is solving trying to accomadate him in the team, I don't think he is going to work out in midfield long term like others, sure that diagnal ball accross to the wingers looks nice when it comes off but I don't see much else happening from him in there.

if he was playing up front with falcao i think this would be better for the team in general. get the players playing in their correct positions and could solve a lot of the little problems we are having at the minute. Plus i think falcao/ rooney would be the best partnership we could for up top with mata in behind

keeponhurling · 13-01-2015 04:34PM

Still think the focus needs to be on getting the 6 signings from the summer fit and integrated into the team.

Rojo, Shaw and Blind were all signed as players who can play in the back 4/5.

I'd hold off signing anyone new for now

bangkok · 13-01-2015 04:34PM

Nolars wrote: »

Just reading on sky sports that we are paying the most wages each week, when you consider our squad v chelsea we have a LOT of deadwood. And do Rooney, Rvp play to the standard of their wages? absolutely not. Big shake up needed in the summer.

Anderson getting 80k a week for doing nothing

Nolars · 13-01-2015 04:34PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

We could get an average enough midfielder and pay him 1/4th of what Rooney gets to do the exact same job he does in midfield. Play him in an attacking role or don't play him at all

Excatly I would rather sell Rooney and get in 2 midfielders like vidal and strootman for the same wages as Rooney. Stick Falcao up front. happy days

Pro. F · 13-01-2015 04:35PM

Irishcrx wrote: »

I'm honestly starting to think we would be a better team without Rooney, particularly if we signed Falcao and let him get on with playing everygame and scoring goals. He looks to be causing more issues than he is solving trying to accomadate him in the team, I don't think he is going to work out in midfield long term like others, sure that diagnal ball accross to the wingers looks nice when it comes off but I don't see much else happening from him in there.

We should be playing Rooney as a striker, he is our best striker. We should not be playing him out of position or dropping him to accommodate the inferior strikers.

I've advocated trying Rooney in midfield before, but it's clear right now that it's not working out. Just like it's clear that 352 is not working, that playing two centre-forwards is not working and that we need another right-back. Hopefully LVG cops on to all of this soon.

Nolars · 13-01-2015 04:36PM

bangkok wrote: »

Anderson getting 80k a week for doing nothing

Surely the club has to agree some sort of mutual fee to get rid of him, the club should have a zero tolerance to players that are not good enough sticking around.

Spazdarn · 13-01-2015 05:03PM

Pro. F wrote: »

We should be playing Rooney as a striker, he is our best striker. We should not be playing him out of position or dropping him to accommodate the inferior strikers.

I've advocated trying Rooney in midfield before, but it's clear right now that it's not working out. Just like it's clear that 352 is not working, that playing two centre-forwards is not working and that we need another right-back. Hopefully LVG cops on to all of this soon.

He probably is our best striker but he's too prone to dropping deep into the space that Mata is supposed to occupy. He's got to leave the the more creative midfielders do their job and let him keep his energy for scoring goals.

Pro. F · 13-01-2015 05:16PM

Spazdarn wrote: »

He probably is our best striker but he's too prone to dropping deep into the space that Mata is supposed to occupy. He's got to leave the the more creative midfielders do their job and let him keep his energy for scoring goals.

He only drops so deep when he's played behind a CF, and at those times that's what he is supposed to be doing.

The_Kew_Tour · 13-01-2015 05:25PM

Forget about the wages and off the field stuff.

It still seems on the field Rooney is still underrated by some.

I think its only when he retires or leaves that we will truly understand how good he was

Rooney leaving would be disaster. (I not saying he is just making point)

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Read Mod Warning in OP 7/1/15

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