American Sniper - Bradley Cooper - Clint Eastwood Dir

delly · 11-01-2015 03:21AM

Went into this with some high hopes, but was a little disappointed. I do like my conflict set pieces, but as I watched most of the action scenes, I couldn't help but think of how Black Hawk Down did it. The intensity of war, the tension, bullet casings, blood etc., it just didn't grab the same sense of reality.

WHIP IT! · 11-01-2015 10:28AM

I have to say I liked it. Cooper was very good. Some really good tense scenes in Iraq... having read a bit about Kyle beforehand though, I did expect it to contain a lot more detail about his 'post-war' life and accomplishments...

R P McMurphy · 11-01-2015 10:48AM

WHIP IT! wrote: »

I have to say I liked it. Cooper was very good. Some really good tense scenes in Iraq... having read a bit about Kyle beforehand though, I did expect it to contain a lot more detail about his 'post-war' life and accomplishments...

I suppose they couldn't really as a lot of it is unsubstantiated. His claims to have gone to new Orleans and killed dozens of looters during hurricane Katrina, bizarre and if there was any truth to his claims he should have been rotting in a jail cell. I think Eastwood gave his legacy an easy ride

errlloyd · 11-01-2015 01:39PM

I'm holding back from seeing this, because honestly from what I have read the real guy was a murderous thug. A man who seemed to hunt humans as a game and took enjoyment from killing them.

So to people who have seen it, does this movie glamorise and celebrate his life, or is there an element that criticises it?

FloatingVoter · 11-01-2015 03:25PM

errlloyd wrote: »

I'm holding back from seeing this, because honestly from what I have read the real guy was a murderous thug. A man who seemed to hunt humans as a game and took enjoyment from killing them.

So to people who have seen it, does this movie glamorise and celebrate his life, or is there an element that criticises it?

It commemorates his life. You could say glamorises it at a stretch. He's seen as a hero by the guys he's serving with - an absentee dad by his wife. The trouble is this is based on a real person and not viewed though the long lens of history as enough time hasn't passed. So its neither hagiography nor hatchet job - but then again he is a low ranking soldier not a political leader.....he should merit neither.
As a movie, it'll pass two hours of your time and I wouldn't get too upset about it. If you like war movies, Clint serves up a decent actioner while showing that not everybody comes back from war with the same mental issues.
As for the murderous thug bit, he was a professional sniper not a serial killer. His alter ego on the other side is depicted in a similar fashion.

R P McMurphy · 11-01-2015 04:26PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

It commemorates his life. You could say glamorises it at a stretch. He's seen as a hero by the guys he's serving with - an absentee dad by his wife. The trouble is this is based on a real person and not viewed though the long lens of history as enough time hasn't passed. So its neither hagiography nor hatchet job - but then again he is a low ranking soldier not a political leader.....he should merit neither.
As a movie, it'll pass two hours of your time and I wouldn't get too upset about it. If you like war movies, Clint serves up a decent actioner while showing that not everybody comes back from war with the same mental issues.
As for the murderous thug bit, he was a professional sniper not a serial killer. His alter ego on the other side is depicted in a similar fashion.

Well as a sniper you would expect that he would ratchet up a good few deaths. According to himself though he had shot and killed two men that were trying to steal his SUV. Those bodies were never located though so is something wrong there. Now that could be self defence but disposing of the bodies?. His other claim though is that he went to new Orleans and killed a couple of dozen looters. That is definitely in the territory of mass murder if anyway accurate.

FloatingVoter · 11-01-2015 04:49PM

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Well as a sniper you would expect that he would ratchet up a good few deaths. According to himself though he had shot and killed two men that were trying to steal his SUV. Those bodies were never located though so is something wrong there. Now that could be self defence but disposing of the bodies?. His other claim though is that he went to new Orleans and killed a couple of dozen looters. That is definitely in the territory of mass murder if anyway accurate.

I don't know about the book....I read the wiki page on him. Seems he wound up in legal trouble with Jessie Ventura as well. I'd imagine Clint just decided to stick with what was verifiable and proven to have happened.

Royal Legend · 11-01-2015 05:15PM

Brilliant film, very tense, spent the whole film waiting for him to die, did not know the story, did not know the ending, so I suppose it meant something different to me.
The ending was very sad, and I am talking about the "real" video footage at the end.

I have spent time in the states and have witnessed the U S A type, an lot of people buy into it, America is a huge country and some people live fairly remotely and know no different, personally I would not knock them for it, the film portrays this element of American society well. As for being a cold blooded killer, is that not what a Navy seal is trained to be?

R P McMurphy · 11-01-2015 05:34PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

I don't know about the book....I read the wiki page on him. Seems he wound up in legal trouble with Jessie Ventura as well. I'd imagine Clint just decided to stick with what was verifiable and proven to have happened.

Yeah I would imagine Clint Eastwood wanted to stick to the substantiated parts of the story. I would say in all likelihood he made up the stories of his time after leaving the navy seals. Probably felt under pressure to maintain an image.

errlloyd · 11-01-2015 08:39PM

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Yeah I would imagine Clint Eastwood wanted to stick to the substantiated parts of the story. I would say in all likelihood he made up the stories of his time after leaving the navy seals. Probably felt under pressure to maintain an image.

Hmm just watched.

The substantiated parts like when he shot that other sniper from more than a mile away? Eastwood was pretty uncritical of Kyle and American troops in general which is what you expect from a guy so patriotic and republican he probably bleeds oil.

The movie has excellent suspense with well shot scenes. I just don't think it challenged the viewer at all. The Iraqis were completely dehumanised which meant the movie effectively broke down into watching Kyle take down unnamed extras with no depth.

The great villain in the movie had no dialogue, apart from one shot of him in his family home we had no context for his life.

I'd suggest the movie is a lesser version of the hurt locker.

That said, I appreciated Coopers performance, he did lift it somewhat.

Royal Legend · 11-01-2015 08:51PM

Royal Legend wrote: »

Brilliant film, very tense, spent the whole film waiting for him to die, did not know the story, did not know the ending, so I suppose it meant something different to me.
The ending was very sad, and I am talking about the "real" video footage at the end.

I have spent time in the states and have witnessed the U S A type, an lot of people buy into it, America is a huge country and some people live fairly remotely and know no different, personally I would not knock them for it, the film portrays this element of American society well. As for being a cold blooded killer, is that not what a Navy seal is trained to be?

Watched it again, still gets me at the end, even though now I know a bit more about his story.
Brilliant performance from Cooper.

ktulu123 · 11-01-2015 08:54PM

errlloyd wrote: »

The substantiated parts like when he shot that other sniper from more than a mile away?

It's recorded as one of the longest sniper kills so yeah it's real. 1,920 m 8th one down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills

errlloyd · 11-01-2015 08:57PM

ktulu123 wrote: »

It's recorded as one of the longest sniper kills so yeah it's real. 1,920 m 8th one down:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longest_recorded_sniper_kills

In the book he describes it completely differently. It's not a kill against his Major Koenig style arch enemy sniper, he was just taking down a random guy with an rpg.

R P McMurphy · 11-01-2015 09:29PM

errlloyd wrote: »

Hmm just watched.

The substantiated parts like when he shot that other sniper from more than a mile away? Eastwood was pretty uncritical of Kyle and American troops in general which is what you expect from a guy so patriotic and republican he probably bleeds oil.

The movie has excellent suspense with well shot scenes. I just don't think it challenged the viewer at all. The Iraqis were completely dehumanised which meant the movie effectively broke down into watching Kyle take down unnamed extras with no depth.

The great villain in the movie had no dialogue, apart from one shot of him in his family home we had no context for his life.

I'd suggest the movie is a lesser version of the hurt locker.

That said, I appreciated Coopers performance, he did lift it somewhat.

The dehumanizing of the Iraqis is an angle that could have been explored. He was interviewed on Fox or some such news channel and referred to Iraqis as savages and said he had to view them as such in order to kill them. Overall the film was one dimensional. Disappointed as the trailer was enticing. Anyway Clint gets a pass

ireland.man · 11-01-2015 09:49PM

R P McMurphy wrote: »

Well as a sniper you would expect that he would ratchet up a good few deaths. According to himself though he had shot and killed two men that were trying to steal his SUV. Those bodies were never located though so is something wrong there. Now that could be self defence but disposing of the bodies?. His other claim though is that he went to new Orleans and killed a couple of dozen looters. That is definitely in the territory of mass murder if anyway accurate.

He enjoyed killing and killed in different contexts, he was a serial killer. I'll watch the movie but I can't understand why people can stomach such a man.

D'Agger · 12-01-2015 12:02AM

Saying he enjoyed killing is a bold statement, how could one know that unless he's said as much in the media?

What we know is he was a trained SEAL sniper who was very good at his job, granted people tend to enjoy things they're good at but I don't think anybody would enjoy 4 tours to Iraq - I couldn't do that so perhaps I can stomach those who have the balls to do so

That said, I hope you enjoy the movie

Gandalph · 12-01-2015 12:08AM

errlloyd wrote: »

In the book he describes it completely differently. It's not a kill against his Major Koenig style arch enemy sniper, he was just taking down a random guy with an rpg.

Been a good two years since I read it but I thought his longest hit was some guy from across a river that was mooning him, or am I getting this mixed up with something else?

ireland.man · 12-01-2015 01:28AM

D'Agger wrote: »

Saying he enjoyed killing is a bold statement, how could one know that unless he's said as much in the media?

What we know is he was a trained SEAL sniper who was very good at his job, granted people tend to enjoy things they're good at but I don't think anybody would enjoy 4 tours to Iraq - I couldn't do that so perhaps I can stomach those who have the balls to do so

That said, I hope you enjoy the movie

It's how he describes it in his book, including using the term "fun" and mentioned how he took valuables from the homes of Iraqis whom he called "savages".

It's probably the only time I ever wanted a movie to be less based on a real story!!

poeticmakaveli · 12-01-2015 03:44AM

watched it a couple nights ago. I was looking forward to it a while but thought it would have been better! it is still a watch but i wouldn't class it as a very good movie! 'lone survivor' was a similar but far better film!

Looper007 · 12-01-2015 10:06AM

To anyone who has seen American Sniper with some of the reviews on here a bit sniffy. Do you think this could have been a better film in the hands of a younger director rather that of Clint Eastwood?

Otacon · 12-01-2015 10:15AM

Looper007 wrote: »

To anyone who has seen American Sniper with some of the reviews on here a bit sniffy. Do you think this could have been a better film in the hands of a younger director rather that of Clint Eastwood?

I don't think his age has anything to do with it.

I do believe that someone with a different set of political views would have been more critical of Kyle and the US in general though. Whether that would have made for a better film is anyone's guess.

I enjoyed it myself.

ktulu123 · 12-01-2015 10:45AM

errlloyd wrote: »

In the book he describes it completely differently. It's not a kill against his Major Koenig style arch enemy sniper, he was just taking down a random guy with an rpg.

You are correct, sorry! His longest kill was actually the RPG guy that was apparently going to shoot it at a US convoy.

Shiraz 4.99 · 12-01-2015 10:53AM

It was OK, I can see the Hurt Locker, Green Zone Comparisons.
What all these movies do is reinforce what a great movie Black Hawk Down was & has sadly been overlooked in this genre.

errlloyd · 12-01-2015 11:52AM

Looper007 wrote: »

To anyone who has seen American Sniper with some of the reviews on here a bit sniffy. Do you think this could have been a better film in the hands of a younger director rather that of Clint Eastwood?

In as much as age influences politics and a younger director would probably have been less "murica" yeah it would have made a little bit of a difference.

The actual movie I guess has an old style to it, Eastwood isn't trying anything new, again a young director might have. Maybe other posters disagree but to me the movie was paced a lot like enemy at the gates. Obviously enemy at the gates had no background story really.

I guess it should be described as a pure war movie. Like the before mentioned black hawk down (although certainly not as good).

dreamers75 · 15-01-2015 01:05AM

Looper007 wrote: »

To anyone who has seen American Sniper with some of the reviews on here a bit sniffy. Do you think this could have been a better film in the hands of a younger director rather that of Clint Eastwood?

I think an unbiased movie on his life rather than the book being a movie would have been much better.

antodeco · 15-01-2015 02:48PM

I saw the movie last night. I thought it was quite good. Some nice cinema scenes and I think if you are a COD/Batllefield gamer, you will appreciate it!

I felt the end of it was a little abrupt. It just kinda went nowhere. I dont know if that was done purposely based on what happened or not.

Ole Rodrigo · 15-01-2015 03:54PM

Taken on its own terms its a good film. Everything you would expect of Eastwood. Bradley Coopers performance is quite good too.

However it doesn't satisfactorily broach on the nature of Kyles bloodthirstiness . Where is the line between a heroic patriot and a reviled serial killer? Can there be an overlap ? This is something that occurred to me and most have occurred to Clint Eastwood at some point, although his politics might have made it easy to resolve. Having a stern father teach you to protect what you hold dear at all costs is a weak explanation for such guilt free wholesale killing. Its interesting that in the film his PTSD is centered around being attacked rather than any acts he committed himself. A few hundred kills and not a blip on his conscience.

Honey Monster · 15-01-2015 06:43PM

I think a lot of people are confusing a good story with a good movie. The story of this guy is a great one, a controversial one...the movie however plainly taken as a movie is terrible. It's all over the place. The action just doesn't grip you. The whole thing is just...Murica, guns, USA USA USA.. Maybe because Eastwood directs.

FloatingVoter · 16-01-2015 04:42AM

It is a movie about a man who was good at shooting things. He did not have deep inner conflicts about America's place in the world. The subject of the movie drew a paycheque for doing what he was good at and justified it by humming the national anthem. While ignoring the humdrum crap that makes heroes of people they'll never make movies about...like fatherhood.
If Clint had made him a Proust reading, poetry spouting intellectual he would have delivered a lie. Like it or lump it, professional killers tend not to come with doctorates in philosophy.
Of all directors, I wouldn't throw jingoism at Clint - he did Flags of Our Fathers / Letters From Iwo Jima.....he could have just done the first and made a mint. The man can see both sides of a tale. The western made him and he unmade it with Unforgiven. It would surprise me if the tale of Bradley's alter ego isn't in development. I'm an awkward bastard, so is Clint...that'd be my next move.
It beats talking to empty chairs and screwing with Republicans.

Brien · 16-01-2015 09:20AM

I don't think anyone mentioned here that Kyle was one of the producers on the film (largely in name only). It was never going to criticise him harshly, or stray from the book it is based on. The book was very 'Murica, fúck yeah. The film took only what was filmable and in my opinion missed all its beats from attitude and reaction that could have been possible by exploring the war further. My biggest criticism is how little the film focused on actual sniping or the "relationship" with his gun, and the thinking and methodology behind shooting.
Cooper is excellent though and it is worth watching for the most part.

American Sniper - Bradley Cooper - Clint Eastwood Dir

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