Cutting Edge - The Club - 1994 Documentary

dan_ep82 · 02-01-2015 02:56PM

GreeBo wrote: »

I didn't specifically say you did, but you seem to have an issue with others upholding the rules.

They should change when the majority of them want to change, not just when a minority challenges them by flouting them.

Yeah, the pro shop had arand of kids gear.

They are not suitable for adults, the rules are relaxed for kids because it can be off putting for some kids, should are expected to understand.

I own them and wear them too and tracksuits, I also own Speedos, but since they aren't appropriate for golf idon't wear them when playing.

I think some rules are out dated yes but never said I had an issue with someone upholding them. Not having my polo shirt tucked in wouldn't be an issue in my club but I suppose if I was at another club and it was mentioned to me while I probably wouldn't agree with it, I'd still conform to the clubs rules while playing there though.

What detrimental effect could it have though? Sure you'll always have some who see it as a step in the wrong direction, away from tradition but they're will always be others who see it as a step in the right direction, to opening up the game more in any small way possible. I'm not talking about jersey's or metallica t shirt here.

Ah, but new golfers aren't always kids, many more are in they're twenties or thirties, so why allowances for them and not adults? It can be off putting for young adults just in the same way as it is for younger kids. Still no reason why it's not suitable for adults though?

I can understand why you used the metaphor,but I still think its wrong and ill used.

Your trying to make it sound like wearing plain tracksuit bottoms is the same as wearing speedo's on a golf course (you can wear what you want under your clothes btw :pac: )

One would be a very small step away from tradition and definitely wouldn't be seen as a gateway rule that allowed extremes changes to follow it. It would set no precedent for more outlandish rules. The other would never be even considered for a variety of reasons, the main one being decency and practicality.

Norfolk Enchants_ · 02-01-2015 03:28PM

How one dresses says alot about ones character, those who can't be arsed to dress properly are rarely the same ones who go out of their way to keep the course tidy, e.g. they won't rake bunkers at all or when they do it's a half arsed attempt, they won't repair their pitch marks correctly and will almost never repair another besides their own and I can go on and on but you get the picture.

fullstop · 02-01-2015 08:21PM

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Your trying to make it sound like wearing plain tracksuit bottoms is the same as wearing speedo's on a golf course (you can wear what you want under your clothes btw :pac: )

One would be a very small step away from tradition and definitely wouldn't be seen as a gateway rule that allowed extremes changes to follow it. It would set no precedent for more outlandish rules. The other would never be even considered for a variety of reasons, the main one being decency and practicality.

Of course he is, anything for a 'debate'. They wouldn't like to see tracksuit-bottom clad people rocking up to The Grange though in fairness.

GreeBo · 02-01-2015 08:36PM

dan_ep82 wrote: »

I think some rules are out dated yes but never said I had an issue with someone upholding them. Not having my polo shirt tucked in wouldn't be an issue in my club but I suppose if I was at another club and it was mentioned to me while I probably wouldn't agree with it, I'd still conform to the clubs rules while playing there though.

What detrimental effect could it have though? Sure you'll always have some who see it as a step in the wrong direction, away from tradition but they're will always be others who see it as a step in the right direction, to opening up the game more in any small way possible. I'm not talking about jersey's or metallica t shirt here.

Ah, but new golfers aren't always kids, many more are in they're twenties or thirties, so why allowances for them and not adults? It can be off putting for young adults just in the same way as it is for younger kids. Still no reason why it's not suitable for adults though?

I can understand why you used the metaphor,but I still think its wrong and ill used.

Your trying to make it sound like wearing plain tracksuit bottoms is the same as wearing speedo's on a golf course (you can wear what you want under your clothes btw :pac: )

One would be a very small step away from tradition and definitely wouldn't be seen as a gateway rule that allowed extremes changes to follow it. It would set no precedent for more outlandish rules. The other would never be even considered for a variety of reasons, the main one being decency and practicality.

The detrimental effect is people ignoring the rules and etiquette of the game, as I said, idon't mind rules changing, if that's what the majority in the club wants.
you may not be talking metallica t shirts, but others will, that's the nature of people.
Why is relaxing the rules for adults astep in the right direction? What possible barrier is trousers and a polo shirt to entry?

Because i think you make allowances for kids where you shouldn't need to for grown adults. It's not suitable for adults because the rules of the club demand a higher dress standard.

And no I'm not, I wore a plain tracksuit trousers playing as a kid. The key being as a kid. Why would an adult have a problem with a dress code? They can accept no trainers when they go out somewhere nice.

GreeBo · 02-01-2015 08:39PM

fullstop wrote: »

Of course he is, anything for a 'debate'. They wouldn't like to see tracksuit-bottom clad people rocking up to The Grange though in fairness.

Fyp.

Can't do anything about the bigotry though.

fullstop · 02-01-2015 08:41PM

GreeBo wrote: »

Fyp.

Can't do anything about the bigotry though.

Bigots in The Grange? I should hope not.

dan_ep82 · 02-01-2015 08:57PM

GreeBo wrote: »

The detrimental effect is people ignoring the rules and etiquette of the game, as I said, idon't mind rules changing, if that's what the majority in the club wants.
you may not be talking metallica t shirts, but others will, that's the nature of people.
Why is relaxing the rules for adults astep in the right direction? What possible barrier is trousers and a polo shirt to entry?

Because i think you make allowances for kids where you shouldn't need to for grown adults. It's not suitable for adults because the rules of the club demand a higher dress standard.

And no I'm not, I wore a plain tracksuit trousers playing as a kid. The key being as a kid. Why would an adult have a problem with a dress code? They can accept no trainers when they go out somewhere nice.

Now we're jumping to conclusions again, no where did I say ignore/break rules, but a need for a change.

You can still impose/keep rules that dis allow jerseys or t-shirts while allowing more conforming clothing.

Simply put, I didn't own a pair of trousers or polo outside of dress wear and I wouldn't wear it on the course. Before I could play I had to go out and buy new clothes. Not a massive barrier, but its another excuse to for those to not play.

I think your wrong there, kids and grown up's aren't all that different. I'm sure some adults would like to wear tracksuit bottoms over trousers from time to time.

Again, you keep coming back to current rules, can you not at least explain your thoughts on the reasoning behind the rules. I'm saying they could be improved upon, not disregarded and that with a "higher dress standard", the style could change.

In fact I think thats exactly what you were claiming, your metaphor is quite clear.

You'll notice those same places will let you in during day time in trainers, its once it go pasts a certain time it changes from casual wear to evening wear.

And I could understand if a tighter etiquette was enforced upon competitions, the same way you can practice in a tracksuit for football but play the game in the uniform.

ForeRight · 02-01-2015 09:06PM

fullstop wrote: »

Bigots in The Grange? I should hope not.

Keano · 02-01-2015 09:15PM

Not helpful. If you've nothing to add then leave well alone

GreeBo · 02-01-2015 09:19PM

I think you need to stop reading too much into my posts, I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm dying that they're are plenty of people who will push the boundaries.
Again, we allow more confirming clothing for children, iI think it's reasonable to expect an adult can spend 20 on trousers and a polo shirt, don't you? It's add much abarrier as having to buy apair of boots, gum shield, Jersey, helmet, etc etc.

Yes adults want things, but they are supposed to be nature enough to realise that you can't always do what you want in life.

Having adress code works the same as everywhere, it makes people make aminimal effort, one that will hopefully be also made regarding the etiquette of the game. Those unwilling to make that tiny effort are also probably unwilling to do the other things required to play golf. Styles naturally change, a tracksuit isn't astyle change though.

It's not at all what iam claiming. I'm stating that some things are appropriate for different occasions. It's why you don't wear sandals to aformal wedding, or funeral.

My club has relaxed the dress code in the club house, but not on the course, there is absolutely no need to.

Public courses are typically more relaxed, if it's such a problem why not play oons public course?

dan_ep82 · 02-01-2015 09:34PM

GreeBo wrote: »

I think you need to so trading into my posts, I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm dying that they're are plenty of people who will push the boundaries.
Again, we allow more confirming clothing for children, iI think it's reasonable to expect an adult can spend 20 on trousers and a polo shirt, don't you? It's add much abarrier as having to buy apair of boots, gum shield, Jersey, helmet, etc etc.

Yes adults want things, but they are supposed to be nature enough to realise that you can't always do what you want in life.

Having adress code works the same as everywhere, it makes people make aminimal effort, one that will hopefully be also made regarding the etiquette of the game. Those unwilling to make that tiny effort are also probably unwilling to do the other things required to play golf. Styles naturally change, a tracksuit isn't astyle change though.

It's not at all what iam claiming. I'm stating that some things are appropriate for different occasions. It's why you don't wear sandals to aformal wedding, or funeral.

My club has relaxed the dress code in the club house, but not on the course, there is absolutely no need to.

Not sure how to read the first line, could you re-type it for me please, I assume I'm being a bit dense.

But if you want to just play a fottbal game with your friends, outside a competition or offical match, do they dress up in full gear or wear something comfortable yet functional (eg. tracksuit over jeans)

If every adult/sport/community lived their lives without changing rules to suit the times we would still have women who are not allowed to play golf, Kings of Ireland and all other silly laws. If we changed the subject to women golf and went back a few years your answers would fit perfectly. The rules are as is, its tradition, women are adults and can't always have what they want.

Once again, I'm not saying to abolish clothing etiqutee,simply to broaden it. And unfortunately a tracksuit is a style, its generally called casual. In the older ages casual may be a jumper and jeans but both are still casual style.

It depends on the style and gender if sandals are appropriate but thats another issue. A wedding or funeral are formal occasions, where as golf is first and foremost a sport, one that many play casually rather than competitively.

I could actually understand if it was the other way around, it would fall in line with other dining/alcohol outlets.

I'm sure most do, but would it not be better to have more golfers joining clubs, keep clubs alive?

Again, I know its a very minor discouragement, but they all add. If I was to take yourself as a typical Irish golfer its no wonder why things are hard to change when you wouldn't like to allow simple plain tracksuit bottoms on the course.

GreeBo · 02-01-2015 09:47PM

I edited it...auto correct issues!

If I'm playing footie with my mates we stick on boots of done description, astro typically.
tracksuit over jeans does not sound comfortable to me!

The rules are relaxed, styles are more casual, it's not amillion years ago a shirt and tie was worn.
If you allow aplain tracksuit why not a plain t shirt?
maybe allow a single stripe? Where do you draw the line?

Comparing gender equality to a dress code is a bridge too far methinks.

Casual doesn't mean tracksuit to me tbh. What would you call jeans and regular trousers so? What's below tracksuit on your fashion scale? ( other than my Speedos!)

Idon't think relaxing dress codes any further would have any impact at all. If it did then someone would have tried it already.

Personally ithink it would be hell and you certainly wouldn't get people paying top money to join such aclub. Exactly the same way add you don't get top prices or quality in a student bar.

dan_ep82 · 02-01-2015 10:16PM

GreeBo wrote: »

I edited it...auto correct issues!

If I'm playing footie with my mates we stick on boots of done description, astro typically.
tracksuit over jeans does not sound comfortable to me!

The rules are relaxed, styles are more casual, it's not amillion years ago a shirt and tie was worn.
If you allow aplain tracksuit why not a plain t shirt?
maybe allow a single stripe? Where do you draw the line?

Comparing gender equality to a dress code is a bridge too far methinks.

Casual doesn't mean tracksuit to me tbh. What would you call jeans and regular trousers so? What's below tracksuit on your fashion scale? ( other than my Speedos!)

Idon't think relaxing dress codes any further would have any impact at all. If it did then someone would have tried it already.

Personally ithink it would be hell and you certainly wouldn't get people paying top money to join such aclub. Exactly the same way add you don't get top prices or quality in a student bar.

Boots, football shoes would fall under necessary equipment I think, and normal people change into tracksuit bottoms :pac:

You draw the line where the majority would agree on while still trying to meet halfway, like most rules now that some disagree with they still follow them. Its the same reason polo shirts are allowed now over shirt and tie, it was drawn where appropriate.

I was trying not to compare both issues while using them to highlight the problem as I see it, the thinking behind them.

Casual wear is different to many, not everyone adheres to the same styles. For me there's formal wear and casual wear, with a blend of the two at times. Where would you put tracksuits? (this is going off topic ha)

Oh and thats not a style, thats something for after hours :pac:

How can you predict the outcome of a change without trying it though?

The same could be said from the otherside, why would they pay top money to be looked down upon?

Boskowski · 02-01-2015 10:27PM

Its a bit like in a professional environment.
Imposing a dress code is not just there to nag or patronise people or for show. Showering and shaving and putting on a shirt and tie and suit or smart casual as a requirement to enter your workplace puts you a bit into a 'no messing', professional frame of mind.

Golf is a bit like that because the golf course and the game itself shouldn't be approached carelessly. Its not a place to be messing around. Its a bit too dangerous to do so and also the course is expensive to maintain and needs care both from staff and players. I know this will probably sound 'stuffy' too some but I do believe people who slouch onto the course in runners and sweat pants and look like they don't 'respect' (for want of a better word) the place are less likely to treat the place with care and respect and play the game in earnest. Having to follow some sort of formality with regards to attire and the rest promotes proper behaviour and etiquette.

That doesn't mean that people who wear the proper attire always respect the course and the game and it also doesn't mean that all people who would want to wear slouchy attire would disrespect the place but in general I believe the above is true. Its anecdotal, no more, but the only people I've ever seen messing around the place, drinking even, playing 'crazy' golf, well, they looked a bit like they might do just that.

Whats so terribly hard about smarting up a bit anyway? I'm a very casual guy myself but I have no problem dressing up just a tad (and it isn't even that) when I go to work or play golf. As it has been said before you can buy a pair of chinos or cords and a polo for probably under €25 in Penneys.

GreeBo · 02-01-2015 10:28PM

dan_ep82 wrote: »

Boots, football shoes would fall under necessary equipment I think, and normal people change into tracksuit bottoms :pac:

You draw the line where the majority would agree on while still trying to meet halfway, like most rules now that some disagree with they still follow them. Its the same reason polo shirts are allowed now over shirt and tie, it was drawn where appropriate.

I was trying not to compare both issues while using them to highlight the problem as I see it, the thinking behind them.

Casual wear is different to many, not everyone adheres to the same styles. For me there's formal wear and casual wear, with a blend of the two at times. Where would you put tracksuits? (this is going off topic ha)

Oh and thats not a style, thats something for after hours :pac:

How can you predict the outcome of a change without trying it though?

The same could be said from the otherside, why would they pay top money to be looked down upon?

Polo shirts were allowed because people no longer typically wear a suit, there were no other clothes back then! Builders went to work in a 3 piece.

I'd put tracksuits in the realm of something iwear to sweat in, or lounge at home.

So why has no club tried it?

Why are they being looked down on though? Because they can't be bothered to follow the etiquette of the club.
nothing to do with money, a tracksuit is typically far more expensive.

TheDoc · 02-01-2015 10:39PM

As a member golfer of 15 years I can safely say I do not give a **** what people wear on the course. As long as they are there to play golf properly.

I've never had this issue in my club thankfully. As a junior I wore runners into the clubhouse and kept it up as an adult. And few years back they scrapped some ridiculous dress codes and people can wear things like jeans and runners in the clubhouse. And that's fine with me...it gets people into the bar spending money and adding an actual atmosphere.

I get all the sides to the argument. But personally just couldn't care less. As long as the person can play golf.

And considering the absolute garbage they pass for golf attire now...I'm pretty sure dress codes have long since gone. Flourescent colours...white trousers...red toursers?! Get a grip.

FixdePitchmark · 02-01-2015 10:47PM

Boskowski · 02-01-2015 11:00PM

Dress codes have eased up so much. Most golf shoes look like runners anyway and a lot of runners you could actually play with in the summer. A lot of golf tops don't have collars and chinos aren't really required either. Straight cords are fine and my club allows jeans in fact. All what golf dress code is about is to not allow the laziest of garb.

Whats the obsessions with tracksuits and sweat pants and hoodies anyway? On most fellas they do not look cool, they just look pyjama like, unkempt and lazy.

GreeBo · 02-01-2015 11:16PM

Boskowski wrote: »

Dress codes have eased up so much. Most golf shoes look like runners anyway and a lot of runners you could actually play with in the summer. A lot of golf tops don't have collars and chinos aren't really required either. Straight cords are fine and my club allows jeans in fact. All what golf dress code is about is to not allow the laziest of garb.

Whats the obsessions with tracksuits and sweat pants and hoodies anyway? On most fellas they do not look cool, they just look pyjama like, unkempt and lazy.

Apparently is a barrier to entry...

John Divney · 03-01-2015 11:51AM

Tucked in shirt is just normal, if they are the modern polo's they are tight anyway and nobody would say tuck it in because they fit well.

But white socks are hardly the epitome of gentlemen attire. Weird.

Kingswood Rover · 03-01-2015 01:35PM

Norfolk Enchants_ wrote: »

How one dresses says alot about ones character, those who can't be arsed to dress properly are rarely the same ones who go out of their way to keep the course tidy, e.g. they won't rake bunkers at all or when they do it's a half arsed attempt, they won't repair their pitch marks correctly and will almost never repair another besides their own and I can go on and on but you get the picture.

How one dresses says a lot about ones character talk about stereotyping, does this carry into real life for you or just the golf course? judging the person when you get to know them and not the clothes they wear always works for me

GreeBo · 03-01-2015 07:32PM

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

How one dresses says a lot about ones character talk about stereotyping, does this carry into real life for you or just the golf course? judging the person when you get to know them and not the clothes they wear always works for me

its reality.
if someone doesnt make the effort to dress well when its expected of them then you learn something from it.

I take it you never judge an interviewee harshly if they rock up in sweats and a wife beater?

Kingswood Rover · 03-01-2015 09:01PM

GreeBo wrote: »

its reality.
if someone doesnt make the effort to dress well when its expected of them then you learn something from it.

I take it you never judge an interviewee harshly if they rock up in sweats and a wife beater?

I have interviewed people for jobs and i always try and select the most suitable candidate for the position advertised. I can honestly say that i have never had an issue with the way any of the candidates i have interviewed have dressed. ROCKIN UP IN SWEATS AND A WIFE BEATER... WTF.

slave1 · 03-01-2015 10:24PM

Just remembered a hot sunny morning last summer when I arrived in Castleknock and realised I'd forgotten my golf shoes, it being a long drive for me I'd worn my crocs and was ****ting it a bit they'd not let me out, thankfully the guy in the shop had no problem, not so sure too many here would have been impressed with a guy playing golf in crocs...

GreeBo · 03-01-2015 10:36PM

Kingswood Rover wrote: »

I have interviewed people for jobs and i always try and select the most suitable candidate for the position advertised. I can honestly say that i have never had an issue with the way any of the candidates i have interviewed have dressed. ROCKIN UP IN SWEATS AND A WIFE BEATER... WTF.

professionalism being part of suitability.
professionalism demonstrated by ability and willingness to dress appropriately.

if you are saying that you never let a candidates appearance form part of your judgement, honestly i flat out dont believe it.

FixdePitchmark · 03-01-2015 10:41PM

GreeBo wrote: »

professionalism being part of suitability.
professionalism demonstrated by ability and willingness to dress appropriately.

if you are saying that you never let a candidates appearance form part of your judgement, honestly i flat out dont believe it.

But we are not getting into professionalism.

As a good friend of mine from Cork said to me on his 3rd time on a course - who the F**k is going to stop me if I want to wear a sombrero.

:D

the guy has a PHD in Chemical Engineering.

Anyway - as other have said - fashion will determine what people wear. I mean , I honestly would rather a lad in jeans than some of the colours so called golfers are wearing.

Now - I am fairly traditional myself.

GreeBo · 03-01-2015 10:47PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But we are not getting into professionalism.

As a good friend of mine from Cork said to me on his 3rd time on a course - who the F**k is going to stop me if I want to wear a sombrero. :D

the guy has a PHD in Chemical Engineering.

Anyway - as other have said - fashion will determine what people wear. I mean , I honestly would rather a lad in jeans than some of the colours so called golfers are wearing.

Now - I am fairly traditional myself.

no, we are talking about appropriateness.

I could care less if he was Einstein, it has no relevance to dressing appropriately for the situation.

the members who respect their club would stop him wearing it, unless they want their club turning into ibiza.

FixdePitchmark · 03-01-2015 10:49PM

GreeBo wrote: »

no, we are talking about appropriateness.

I could care less if he was Einstein, it has no relevance to dressing appropriately for the situation.

the members who respect their club would stop him wearing it, unless they want their club turning into ibiza.

ANd why are these appropriate ?

Jaysus - GreeBo , you haven't talked to me in a while - New Year resolution ?

0474.IanPoulterDM1107_468x5271-266x300.jpg

GreeBo · 03-01-2015 11:00PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

ANd why are these appropriate ?

Jaysus - GreeBo , you haven't talked to me in a while - New Year resolution ?

because they are golf trousers. the style might not be to your taste, thats a differnt argument than suggesting a completely different article of clothing.

perhaps, and you know how long they typically last.

FixdePitchmark · 03-01-2015 11:14PM

Cutting Edge - The Club - 1994 Documentary

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