Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

punisher5112 · 28-12-2014 07:59PM

It seems to be a huge hole we have been left in by previous government.

Free travel for pensioners is fine as most would have contributed to society also disabled and impaired etc.

But the ones that should not have ever been given passes and the tons of fraudsters that are travelling for free should be stamped out.

We all pay for these wasters as I would call them including transport staff as we are the ones that have to deal with them also while they get anywhere and everywhere they want at our expense.

Carawaystick · 28-12-2014 08:36PM

end of the road wrote: »

great. fantastic. how is it being payed for?

.

Water charges;)

In Pyrenees Orientals department in France the co council subsidise the coach service so the equivalent of bus Éireann services are a euro
Perpignan city doesn't subsidise city bus services as much
So these shorter trips are dearer

Aard · 28-12-2014 10:41PM

For every city/region that offers cheap public transport, there's a counter example of where it is expensive.

If you look at any OECD or EU stats on inflation, transport is generally one of the higher levels of inflation, no matter the country. A developed country with an average level of inflation of 2% might still see transport price inflation of 7% or more. That's part of averaging.

The Tallinn free travel has been studied to show that it had insignificant impact in terms of increasing passenger numbers. While reducing fares slightly can have a positive impact on ridership numbers, reducing fares beyond a certain point (in this case to zero) leads to diminishing returns.

Lucena · 31-12-2014 12:03PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Virtually every bus now has announcements on board for every single stop.

Every new bus has electronic displays showing the next stop.

Just back from Dublin, and this was my experience:

From the airport into town (n° 16 bus IIRC) there were announcements for the stops, and no electronic display. The announcements weren't very clear, but they were there. The bus driver was an absolute gent, though. We were staying off the top of O'Connell Street, so told us where to get off, and also took a bit of time to help a young French couple with directions to their hotel.

Got the 41 from the city centre to the airport a week later. Driver seemed a bit gruff when we got on. However lots of foreigners, between non-native English speakers living in Ireland to a massive group of young Spanish tourists, got on the bus, and in spite of much confusion regarding prices (or so it seemed from where I was sitting) he remained calm and neutral. I know it's his job, but still, it must be hard.

No electronic display and no stops announced.

We were staying in the Carlton, so when we were getting near the airport, we asked him to drop us off at the stop nearest to the hotel. He actually dropped us off directly outside, even though there's no official stop there!

So I'd had to say I'm quite admirative of the drivers (Well done lads!!) who went above and beyond the call of duty, but still seem to get a lot of bad press, in spite of the fact that they do a good job under difficult circumstances.

Where I live in France, city bus drivers drive buses, and generally don't have to deal with money (apart from the odd single-journey ticket, sold at a standard price) or worry about people not paying. It'd certainly make Dublin Bus drivers' job a lot easier if that was the case in Dublin.

n97 mini · 31-12-2014 01:12PM

The announcements for the stops are hit and miss, with quite a lot of misses. Where there are two lines in a stop name, only one gets announced: Leixlip Road, Spa Hotel just gets announced as "Leixlip Road", no mention of the hotel. In other cases the stop description is poor, e.g. "Leixlip Waterworks" should be "Leixlip Salmon Leap Inn"

As we're being encouraged to use the bus stop numbers (as part of the RTPI etc) use really should be made of them by the onboard information system.

In London the stop name/description is actually on the stop along with it's number (which is usually a letter) and the onboard announcements match the name on the stop.

AlekSmart · 31-12-2014 01:24PM

Lucena wrote: »

So I'd had to say I'm quite admirative of the drivers (Well done lads!!) who went above and beyond the call of duty, but still seem to get a lot of bad press, in spite of the fact that they do a good job under difficult circumstances.

Where I live in France, City bus drivers drive buses, and generally don't have to deal with money (apart from the odd single-journey ticket, sold at a standard price) or worry about people not paying. It'd certainly make Dublin Bus drivers' job a lot easier if that was the case in Dublin.

Good post Lucena,and well made points

I have some Bus Driver accquaintances in France,Germany and Belgium,who after spending a few Busdrivers holidays in Dublin have made exactly the same point.

The French lads in particular,are incredulous at the amount of interaction a DublinBus driver is required to have AT EVERY STOP with customers and assorted other folks.

thomasj · 31-12-2014 03:48PM

I didn't expect this but I got a reply to complaint I made a while back. Better than expected.

Dear

You contacted us recently with a complaint you had about our service. While we acknowledged your complaint, we have been unable to progress the issue to a full resolution due to a technical problem with our complaints system which has resulted in full responses to customers being delayed.

We are conscious that extended delays in responding to complaints can often exacerbate the situation, so I would like to outline what action we are taking to improve bus services and in this way, clarify how the reasons which generated your complaint are being dealt with at source.

Dublin Bus has in recent months made significant progress in improving the operation of bus services. Since September, we have recruited 120 additional bus drivers and added an additional 20 buses to cater for growing demand. These buses have been deployed across the city; Swords, Ballymun, Finglas, Blanchardstown, Lucan, Tallaght/Ballycullen, Bray/Stillorgan Road and Merrion Road.

These extra drivers and buses will also allow us deliver a major improvement in reliability and punctuality by mid/end January 2015 on Routes 11, 14, 27, 39/a, 46a/47, 77a and 145 which will all have new schedules. Other routes which will receive improved schedules early in 2015 will include routes 4, 83 and 150.

Finally, operating the bus service during all the Luas Cross City works have been challenging and we are hopeful that after the next change in mid-January, that the level of service disruption will level off.

Should you feel that you require a more specific reply to your complaint, and you think it may not be dealt with by the above improvements, I will be happy to investigate it further for you.

In the meantime, thank you for your comments and we look forward to delivering a much improved service in 2015.

Kind regards,

Customer Comment Desk

devnull · 31-12-2014 03:59PM

Looks like a cut and paste bulk reply to me.

LXFlyer · 31-12-2014 04:06PM

But it does give some hope for the new year in terms of revised schedules to deal with the problems of reliability and increases in demand.

dfx- · 31-12-2014 04:22PM

Aren't the 'additional' buses actually SGs and aren't they just replacing withdrawn AVs? So not necessarily adding to the bus total

thomasj · 31-12-2014 04:55PM

dfx- wrote: »

Aren't the 'additional' buses actually SGs and aren't they just replacing withdrawn AVs? So not necessarily adding to the bus total

No I think the 20 additional buses are Avs gone into storage that were meant to be withdrawn.

LXFlyer · 31-12-2014 05:16PM

dfx- wrote: »

Aren't the 'additional' buses actually SGs and aren't they just replacing withdrawn AVs? So not necessarily adding to the bus total

thomasj wrote: »

No I think the 20 additional buses are Avs gone into storage that were meant to be withdrawn.

Correct - 20 AVs that were due to be withdrawn are now going to be reinstated and thereby expand the fleet.

This will allow for extra departures on some routes, and for increased running times on other routes where reliability is really going out the window at certain times (e.g. the 11 and 14) - hence the new timetables in January.

dfx- · 31-12-2014 05:21PM

Aren't those AVs by definition in storage though?

17A will find most of them I'd say, doesn't necessarily help the 39s though

thomasj · 31-12-2014 05:44PM

dfx- wrote: »

Aren't those AVs by definition in storage though?

17A will find most of them I'd say, doesn't necessarily help the 39s though

Time will tell with the new timetables, we'll know Monday.

I've been told less 39s, more 39as

LXFlyer · 31-12-2014 06:29PM

dfx- wrote: »

Aren't those AVs by definition in storage though?

17A will find most of them I'd say, doesn't necessarily help the 39s though

The AVs have been withdrawn as the new SGs have been delivered. However, 20 of them will now be reinstated.

By the sounds of things they've been deployed of late adding capacity where needed on a temporary basis.

In the new year, they will be formally reallocated.

Where the actual 20 AVs physically end up is really a moot point - the point is the fleet is expanding by 20 vehicles.

Adding 20 vehicles to the fleet will facilitate the timetable changes outlined above which means:

- Improving reliability on certain routes by allowing for longer running times on certain departures on certain routes but maintaining frequency - that by definition requires more buses

- Increasing frequency on other routes to cater for extra demand

They list the routes that will have new timetables which will benefit from the additional vehicles:
4, 11, 14, 27, 39/a, 46a, 47, 77a, 83, 145 and 150

mmmcake · 31-12-2014 07:24PM

I think a lot of the complainers here are just miserable penny pinchers, no matter what the fare was they would be on here complaining.

eejoynt · 31-12-2014 11:41PM

mmmcake wrote: »

I think a lot of the complainers here are just miserable penny pinchers, no matter what the fare was they would be on here complaining.

Got it in one and some of the worst Are the mods on other forums

dfx- · 01-01-2015 01:50AM

lxflyer wrote: »

The AVs have been withdrawn as the new SGs have been delivered. However, 20 of them will now be reinstated.

By the sounds of things they've been deployed of late adding capacity where needed on a temporary basis.

In the new year, they will be formally reallocated.

What AVs are left to be reinstated? There are lots of 00 AVs that have worked through regular service.

There's only about nine in storage I think. A few in Donnybrook, AV75-AV80, AV89 and AV90. AV91 is in service, AV92 has emigrated. AV112 is in Harristown and maybe a few from AV26-AV28 and AV45-AV50 in Broadstone Phibsboro.

AlekSmart · 01-01-2015 02:55AM

dfx- wrote: »

Aren't the 'additional' buses actually SGs and aren't they just replacing withdrawn AVs? So not necessarily adding to the bus total

One part of the issue,although not exactly said aloud,is the significant reduction in capacity,due to the NTA's design specification.

With each SG having only 64 seats as opposed to 72 on an AV,it can be seen that replacing 100 AV's with 100 SG's leaves a shortfall of 800 seats (I'm disregarding the 3 tip-up seats as they are dependent upon disability/buggy use).

This level of shortfall,coming at a time of rapidly increasing peak-time demand,has presented the NTA with a bit of an issue to address.

To their credit,the NTA rapidly accepted BAC's reduced capacity point,and acted quickly to prevent the disposal of the surplus vehicles.

There has been some discussion of late on the optimum fleet size for Dublin Bus,with some referring back to the Forum on Dublin Public Transport report prepared for Mary O Rourke in 2001.

This report suggested a figure of 1,500 vehicles as a minimum to meet the projected demand.

At the time the BAC fleet was approx 980,and the proposal was to increase this by 400 vehicles over 4 years,with an additional 100 vehicles ring-fenced for private sector operators taking up new route options.

The report was eventually completed and delivered to the,then new Minister for Transport Seamus Brennan,who decided to ignore it,in favour of his particular approach,involving the immediate privatization of 25% of BAC's route structure on a rolling annual basis until it was fully privatized.

With the current NTA 10% route-tender proposal not actually going to result in any additional capacity,it remains to be seen what longer term response the NTA will formulate to address the,by now,pressing need for additional service capacity.

dfx- · 01-01-2015 05:03PM

Not just the SGs reducing capacity, 160 GTs before them replaced the first batch of 00 AVs too and the final RVs. 230 buses reducing capacity, should've been keeping more AVs.

thomasj · 01-01-2015 05:49PM

The 20 Additional buses are AVs that were already withdrawn and were being stored pending sale.

They are now in Harristown fwih and apart from running the odd euro on blanchardstown and swords corridors they haven't fully come back into service yet until the new year.

lucernarian · 01-01-2015 09:02PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

One part of the issue,although not exactly said aloud,is the significant reduction in capacity,due to the NTA's design specification.

With each SG having only 64 seats as opposed to 72 on an AV,it can be seen that replacing 100 AV's with 100 SG's leaves a shortfall of 800 seats (I'm disregarding the 3 tip-up seats as they are dependent upon disability/buggy use).

This level of shortfall,coming at a time of rapidly increasing peak-time demand,has presented the NTA with a bit of an issue to address.
~~~~~
With the current NTA 10% route-tender proposal not actually going to result in any additional capacity,it remains to be seen what longer term response the NTA will formulate to address the,by now,pressing need for additional service capacity.

Isn't that a little misleading? Actually i will go as far as to say very misleading.What are the pax capacities as written on the plates for the SG? Doesn't it have a much larger standee capacity of 27? Which is perfect for some routes that involve shorter/cross city journeys or where more people enter with strollers and shopping bags and cases etc. E.g. 123. Or for quieter routes that don't need massive seat capacity like the 56a, 17, 41b, 33, 104. Now admittedly putting them on the 7 doesn't help all that much but the reality is they have a greater overall capacity than the AVs. A very important detail to leave out. And more centre doors means lower dwell times in particular for the many cross-city routes in Dublin. The engine capacity is naturally an issue but all the bus has to do is 67 kph on a gentle uphill incline and the bus will be capable of most routes in Dublin.

I would presume it's "not exactly said aloud" because it's a completely false assertion?!?!

It's a red herring. The SG class does NOT represent a loss in total pax capacity, whatever its flaws. It can carry more pax than most other 2 axle classes in Dublin Bus.

KD345 · 01-01-2015 09:43PM

lucernarian wrote: »

Isn't that a little misleading? Actually i will go as far as to say very misleading.What are the pax capacities as written on the plates for the SG? Doesn't it have a much larger standee capacity of 27? Which is perfect for some routes that involve shorter/cross city journeys or where more people enter with strollers and shopping bags and cases etc. E.g. 123. Or for quieter routes that don't need massive seat capacity like the 56a, 17, 41b, 33, 104. Now admittedly putting them on the 7 doesn't help all that much but the reality is they have a greater overall capacity than the AVs. A very important detail to leave out. And more centre doors means lower dwell times in particular for the many cross-city routes in Dublin. The engine capacity is naturally an issue but all the bus has to do is 67 kph on a gentle uphill incline and the bus will be capable of most routes in Dublin.

I would presume it's "not exactly said aloud" because it's a completely false assertion?!?!

It's a red herring. The SG class does NOT represent a loss in total pax capacity, whatever its flaws. It can carry more pax than most other 2 axle classes in Dublin Bus.

The maximum capacity of the GT/SG class is 83 passengers (69 seats and 14 standing). Compare this to the capacity of the AV/AX which is 90 (75 seats and 15 standing), and it's a reduction of 7 passengers per bus. This might not seem a lot, but on the Rock Road between 7-9am, this equates to 238 less passengers. If you observe this corridor, you'll see every bus passing full.

You're correct in saying these buses suit quieter routes, but from the NTA contract issued last month, these buses are to be used on

Routes 4,9,13,14,15,16,27,37 39a.,40,46a,83,140,145

In my opinion, none of these routes can really afford any reduction in capacity. The NTA contract does specify that larger VT style vehicles can be used at peak time, but with only 70 of these vehicles in the fleet, their use is limited to the 39/a, 46a and 145.

joegriffinjnr · 01-01-2015 09:48PM

Those GT and SG class should of been delivered without centre doors. We simply can not do the whole centre door thing in Dublin, its a waste of space and a loss of 8 seats. The original SG allocation from the NTA must of changed because the 17A and a few other routes were on it. The AV,s were withdrawn far too early, with a bit of a refurb they could of easy doing another few years. They are far more comfortable than the buses that replaced them. Dont get me started with the decision a few years ago to take the bendy buses of the 4.

devnull · 01-01-2015 10:44PM

The SG and GT class may have less seats, but they have also resulted in attracting new passengers to the bus or former passengers back that had bad experiences in the past.

They have changed peoples negative perceptions in part, which is exactly what the company needed to do since the on bus environment had not changed for many years.

Sure some existing passengers prefer the older buses, but DB needed to attract new customers, and the extra things the new vehicles offer have done just that.

To the average person, show then a 1993 Olympian and a 2008 EV and nothing has changed inside in 15 years to a large degree and there are negative perceptions with that. The GT/SG meanwhile looks a totally different bus.

LXFlyer · 02-01-2015 01:10AM

KD345 wrote: »

The NTA contract does specify that larger VT style vehicles can be used at peak time, but with only 70 of these vehicles in the fleet, their use is limited to the 39/a, 46a and 145.

That's not what the NTA contract says.

It says that the VT class (tri-axle) buses are to be used on Type 1 Routes, which are:

On Routes with highest recorded passenger numbers per service at peak times, including Type 2 Routes or other Routes where appropriate

In other words the VT class are to be used on the routes that, at peak times, have the highest recorded passenger numbers. In other words they are to be put on the busiest routes in the city.

It does not mean that they are to be only used at peak times on those routes.

In addition, they may also be used on Type 2 routes at peak times (namely those from the following list that are not Type 1 routes):

4,9,13,14,15,16,27,37, 39a,40,46a,83,140,145.

So they can stay out all day on the Type 1 routes, and be supplementary peak vehicles on Type 2 routes.

joegriffinjnr wrote: »

Those GT and SG class should of been delivered without centre doors. We simply can not do the whole centre door thing in Dublin, its a waste of space and a loss of 8 seats. The original SG allocation from the NTA must of changed because the 17A and a few other routes were on it. The AV,s were withdrawn far too early, with a bit of a refurb they could of easy doing another few years. They are far more comfortable than the buses that replaced them. Dont get me started with the decision a few years ago to take the bendy buses of the 4.

The centre doors can and must start to be used in order to speed up the service. Now personally I believe that a proper safety audit of every stop in the city is needed to get this up and running. Many stops have either too many routes or are appallingly designed from a safety perspective.

The allocation of vehicles to date has been a Dublin Bus internal matter. The NTA are now (quite correctly) in my view stating that the busy core cross-city routes are where dual door buses need to go into operation. They are being crippled by long dwell times caused by the single door operation. The only one of that list that I've have misgivings about using them is the 16 due to the need for luggage space.

As for keeping the AV/AX fleet, some are now being kept for 16 years as a stop gap measure. However, I think it would be a mistake to move away from a 12 year replacement cycle. This is an industry standard across major operators. Do we seriously want to risk going back to the regular sight of Dublin Bus vehicles breaking down every day as we had in the 1980s and 1990s? Nowadays, seeing a broken down bus is very much the exception to the rule, and that's down to keeping the fleet modern.

devnull wrote: »

The SG and GT class may have less seats, but they have also resulted in attracting new passengers to the bus or former passengers back that had bad experiences in the past.

They have changed peoples negative perceptions in part, which is exactly what the company needed to do since the on bus environment had not changed for many years.

Sure some existing passengers prefer the older buses, but DB needed to attract new customers, and the extra things the new vehicles offer have done just that.

To the average person, show then a 1993 Olympian and a 2008 EV and nothing has changed inside in 15 years to a large degree and there are negative perceptions with that. The GT/SG meanwhile looks a totally different bus.

I'd agree - part of getting more people to use the bus is putting the right image out - and hanging onto old vehicles does not do that.

KD345 · 02-01-2015 01:51AM

lxflyer wrote: »

That's not what the NTA contract says.

It says that the VT class (tri-axle) buses are to be used on Type 1 Routes, which are:

In other words the VT class are to be used on the routes that, at peak times, have the highest recorded passenger numbers. In other words they are to be put on the busiest routes in the city.

It does not mean that they are to be only used at peak times on those routes.

In addition, they may also be used on Type 2 routes at peak times (namely those from the following list that are not Type 1 routes):

So they can stay out all day on the Type 1 routes, and be supplementary peak vehicles on Type 2 routes.

Of course. In the context of the discussion I was referring to the GT/SG routes (Type 2 routes). As I mentioned, these routes can be supplemented with VT buses, but as you know, with only 70 such vehicles operating out of two/three depots, they will only ever run on the 39/a, 46a and 145 from that list of routes mentioned as Type 2.

This may change if similar sized vehicles are ordered in the future, but the likelihood of a VT popping up on the 16 anytime soon is very small!

AlekSmart · 02-01-2015 03:56AM

lucernarian wrote: »

Isn't that a little misleading? Actually i will go as far as to say very misleading.What are the pax capacities as written on the plates for the SG? Doesn't it have a much larger standee capacity of 27? Which is perfect for some routes that involve shorter/cross city journeys or where more people enter with strollers and shopping bags and cases etc. E.g. 123.

Or for quieter routes that don't need massive seat capacity like the 56a, 17, 41b, 33, 104. Now admittedly putting them on the 7 doesn't help all that much but the reality is they have a greater overall capacity than the AVs.

A very important detail to leave out. And more centre doors means lower dwell times in particular for the many cross-city routes in Dublin.

The engine capacity is naturally an issue but all the bus has to do is 67 kph on a gentle uphill incline and the bus will be capable of most routes in Dublin.

I would presume it's "not exactly said aloud" because it's a completely false assertion?!?!

It's a red herring. The SG class does NOT represent a loss in total pax capacity, whatever its flaws. It can carry more pax than most other 2 axle classes in Dublin Bus.

Not misleading at all,in fact.

The key to understanding this is to be aware that those capacity figures for standees,are based upon the vehicles plated weight capacity,both total and individual axle related.

The GT and SG class are both constructed to the European Whole of Vehicle Type Approval (WVTA) standard which significantly differs from the old UK based "Construction & Use" regulations.

Probably the most visible manifestation of this is the lack of seprate Emergency Exits on Dual Doored bus models,plus the absence of Legal Lettering from the side of the vehicles.

In the case of the NTA spec Volvo B5TL/Super Gemini 3 Body,it is some 650 Kg lighter than the B9Tl Gemini 2 GT class.

In 2012,the notional weight for a PSV passsenger,under WVTA, was increased to 65KG,which therefore,allows for an extra 10 Passengers to be accomodated before reaching the Max Gross Vehicle Weight figure.

The Passenger Capacity Figures quoted on the plate are accurate only in so far as seating capacity is provided,in the case of the SG 67 total (Inc the 3 flip-downs).

The 27+ Standing Capacity as outlined is therefore an entirely notional figure.

The regulations governing this can be found here....(NB:The Road Traffic Acts classify Standing Passengers as "Additional Passengers" throughout )

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1963/en/si/0190.html#zzsi190y1963a80

Number of passengers.

80. (1) A person shall not, subject to the provisions of sub-articles (2) and (3) of this article, cause or permit the number of passengers carried on a vehicle to exceed the number of persons for which passenger accommodation is provided.

(2) If and so long as three or more children under the age of 15 years are being carried on the vehicle, the number of such children shall be deemed to be reduced by one-third for the purposes of calculating the number of passengers carried.

(3) During hours of peak traffic, or in circumstances in which undue hardship would be caused to intending passengers if they were not carried, a greater number of passengers than that permissible under sub-article (1) of this article may be carried on an omnibus, subject to the following limitations:

(a) no additional passengers may be carried by virtue of this sub-article in the upper deck of a double deck omnibus, or in an omnibus having passenger accommodation for less than 15 persons;

(b) no additional passengers may be carried by virtue of this sub-article at any time while the omnibus is exceeding a speed of 40 miles per hour;

(c) the additional number of passengers carried in a single deck omnibus by virtue of this sub-article shall not exceed in number 8, or one-quarter of the passenger accommodation of such omnibus, whichever is the less;

(d) the additional number of passengers carried in the lower deck of a double deck omnibus by virtue of this sub-article shall not exceed in number 8, or one-quarter of the passenger accommodation of such lower deck, whichever is the less.

The RSA also offers a simplified explanation here....(Top of Page 9)

http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Vehicle%20Std%20Leg/Vehicle%20regs/Weights_Dimensions_Leaflet.pdf

I hope you can see therefore that my post was neither "slightly or very misleading",nor containing "false assertions".

The reality is,that 67 seats is less than 72,with an additional element being the further reduction of available seating in the lower saloon,a consideration which was one of the prime reasons for Dublin Bus specifing the single door layout of the original AV class.

dfx- · 02-01-2015 04:35PM

238 passengers equates to a conservative estimate of 50,000 passengers per year...on just one corridor

lucernarian wrote: »

Isn't that a little misleading? Actually i will go as far as to say very misleading.What are the pax capacities as written on the plates for the SG? Doesn't it have a much larger standee capacity of 27? Which is perfect for some routes that involve shorter/cross city journeys or where more people enter with strollers and shopping bags and cases etc. E.g. 123. Or for quieter routes that don't need massive seat capacity like the 56a, 17, 41b, 33, 104. Now admittedly putting them on the 7 doesn't help all that much but the reality is they have a greater overall capacity than the AVs. A very important detail to leave out. And more centre doors means lower dwell times in particular for the many cross-city routes in Dublin. The engine capacity is naturally an issue but all the bus has to do is 67 kph on a gentle uphill incline and the bus will be capable of most routes in Dublin.

Except the GTs and SGs are all over the 4, 7, 46A at weekends, 11, 13, 37 etc. The Merrion Rd corridor has only had these types all day every day for two/three years now.

Donnybrook to seem to agree with you. When the 7 went to SG operation, the GTs they had were sent out far and wide to find a suitable route. They've ended up on the 45A and 17, as far away as possible.

Harristown are still trying to find a new home for their GTs. Since leaving the 4 - as SGs came in - they've been everywhere, spending a day each in turn on the 83, 15, 13, 40D, 27B. They'll end up on the 83 probably, which already had GTs.

devnull wrote: »

The SG and GT class may have less seats, but they have also resulted in attracting new passengers to the bus or former passengers back that had bad experiences in the past.

They have changed peoples negative perceptions in part, which is exactly what the company needed to do since the on bus environment had not changed for many years.

Sure some existing passengers prefer the older buses, but DB needed to attract new customers, and the extra things the new vehicles offer have done just that.

To the average person, show then a 1993 Olympian and a 2008 EV and nothing has changed inside in 15 years to a large degree and there are negative perceptions with that. The GT/SG meanwhile looks a totally different bus.

I would suggest that frequency and not being left to wait for the next one is uppermost on the average person's opinion of the service. Deliver old AVs (and some of them already gone were excellent) to take them off the pavement, they'd be more than happy.

Also the average person has an excuse not to look beyond the appearance of a bus, but what is the NTA's excuse. Aren't they the ones who should know what they're buying in a bit more detail. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't look much deeper either.

end of the road · 02-01-2015 04:53PM

dfx- wrote: »

I would suggest that frequency and not being left to wait for the next one is uppermost on the average person's opinion of the service. Deliver old AVs (and some of them already gone were excellent) to take them off the pavement, they'd be more than happy.

absolutely. for example, i wasn't mad about the old step buses as the bench seats at the front if i had to use them weren't my thing, but better then standing around.

dfx- wrote: »

what is the NTA's excuse. Aren't they the ones who should know what they're buying in a bit more detail. I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't look much deeper either.

that would be an ecumenical matter

Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

Comments