Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

steddyeddy · 15-12-2014 12:34PM

cdebru wrote: »

I hate to point out this blindingly obvious but

Ireland car ownership per 1000 people = 500
Kenya car ownership per 1000 people = 24

What makes buses reliable in one place and less reliable in another is the vast gulf in private car ownership, lots of cars hold up buses making them less reliable making people get more cars and making buses even more unreliable, but there is a solution, you just reduce GDP to less than $3000 per capita and make your public transport run like clockwork, now all you have to do is set up a political party promising to make people piss poor but have reliable buses, good luck.

Ah so Kenya = Dublin with less cars? Take a look at google earth and check out the road quality there.

Lucena · 15-12-2014 12:36PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

To be honest I'm amazed at the "we deserve it" attitude in Ireland. No one person I work with thinks Dublin bus is doing a good job. Outside of factors like infrastructure there are massive problems with Dublin bus. I work with a lot of non nationals many of who lm say that this is the worst bus service they have encountered. The general consensus is that the bus drivers seem to think they are doing you a favour by transporting you from A to B.

There are definitely huge improvements to be made. As an infrequent user (once a year at most) I find it a pain trying to figure out when I need to get off, as there's no route map on the bus, no electronic sign saying what the next stop is, and even when I know where I need to get off, the windows are sometimes so dirty I have trouble knowing exactly where I am.

Having said that, if I'm not sure about where I'm getting off, I'll tell the driver and they'll generally give me a shout when it's my stop. I shouldn't have to be like that, but fair play to them, they do their best with the existing system.

LXFlyer · 15-12-2014 12:45PM

Lucena wrote: »

There are definitely huge improvements to be made. As an infrequent user (once a year at most) I find it a pain trying to figure out when I need to get off, as there's no route map on the bus, no electronic sign saying what the next stop is, and even when I know where I need to get off, the windows are sometimes so dirty I have trouble knowing exactly where I am.

Having said that, if I'm not sure about where I'm getting off, I'll tell the driver and they'll generally give me a shout when it's my stop. I shouldn't have to be like that, but fair play to them, they do their best with the existing system.

Virtually every bus now has announcements on board for every single stop.

Every new bus has electronic displays showing the next stop.

LXFlyer · 15-12-2014 12:46PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The last few weeks there have been times on Saturday, generally around 3 when I was waiting 18-30 mins for a bus.

Perhaps there were protests on in town - they are frequent on Saturdays and this will cause knock on effects to buses coming back into the city.

I would find it difficult for there to be any other explanation for a 30 minute gap in the combined 39a, 46a and 145 service.

LXFlyer · 15-12-2014 12:48PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

To be honest I'm amazed at the "we deserve it" attitude in Ireland. No one person I work with thinks Dublin bus is doing a good job. Outside of factors like infrastructure there are massive problems with Dublin bus. I work with a lot of non nationals many of who lm say that this is the worst bus service they have encountered. The general consensus is that the bus drivers seem to think they are doing you a favour by transporting you from A to B.

You must be very unlucky in your drivers.

As someone who uses the bus every day, I do encounter the odd "bad apple" but the vast majority of drivers are decent people.

AlekSmart · 15-12-2014 01:12PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

I lived in Kenya previously which had a more reliable bus service because it was privatised.

I wonder whether the average steadykenyan can post on Boards.co.ke about the awfulness of their public transport ?

If it were a new issue then fair enough,but it's sadly another example of being anti stuff....whether it's Water Charges,Gas Prices,Broadcasting licences,Busdrivers wages,Garda overtime etc etc...the list grows ever longer by the day.

Give us a few facts,such as the actual extent of your journey,as Donnybrook in many peoples minds extends from Appian Way to Merrion Avenue :rolleyes:.

As other posters draw attention to the personal decision to (repeatedly) pay the higher fare,I'm not going to dwell on it,only to draw attention to the alternative Leap Fare of :eek: €2.05:eek:...how often that difference can be ignored,merely to provide fuel for a bonfire is totally in the gift of the OP.

The wages aspect is an interesting one which appears to be connected to the broader Anti-Stuff campaigns.

It seems to revolve around any occupation or individual who earns more than the complainer having to be an overpaid demonic individual in order to bolster the notion that the complainer is being targeted by "The System".

http://www.dublinbus.ie/human-resources/

You will be employed to operate scheduled services covering late shifts on a 4-day week from Thursday to Monday with the opportunity to progress to a 5-day week with rotating shifts.

Salaries begin at €565.95 per week (4-day week inclusive of shift), increasing to €769.74 (5-day week inclusive of shift).

David McWilliams at least took a somewhat broader view...

http://www.davidmcwilliams.ie/2010/12/27/burning-the-bus-drivers

Get over it I'd suggest,because no social system I'm aware of allows for everybody to be paid the same (or nothing) for every task they perform (North Korea may well do so,but it's a secret),so I'd suggest your'e stuck with the Capitalist system for now.

There are also alternatives coming on-stream,such as the expansion of the Dublin Bikes scheme which may yet see a Bike-Station in greater Donnybrook itself,and/or Luas Green Line,although I concede there may well be a walk involved.

To suddenly drop in a comparison between a Western European and an Eastern African situation is verging on eccentric,but it's probably worth noting (and perhaps learning from) Kenya's recent Public Transport experiences as well..?

http://www.kenyabus.net/history.php

http://www.kenyabus.net/history.php

http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0527/619973-kenya-bus/

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/africa/kenya-bus-attack-survivor-tells-how-victims-were-selected-1.2012010

https://wolfganghthome.wordpress.com/2012/05/11/akamba-bus-services-suspend-operations-leaving-thousands-of-travelers-in-a-lurch/

.....so sadly for the Kenyans,their particular Public Transport system is not entirely as tickety-boo as the OP might wish us to believe.

What more can be said on this,except that the OP's options appear to be....
a) Sack the Busdrivers.
Or
b) Get a Leapcard.

15-12-2014 01:16PM

I don't really see why you don't use LEAP tbh, it's not like it'll expire if you don't use it within a week or something, and it's much cheaper, and no worries about counting out change. The cash is quite high to encourage use of leap, as mentioned

AlekSmart · 15-12-2014 01:24PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

To be honest I'm amazed at the "we deserve it" attitude in Ireland. No one person I work with thinks Dublin bus is doing a good job. Outside of factors like infrastructure there are massive problems with Dublin bus. I work with a lot of non nationals many of who lm say that this is the worst bus service they have encountered. The general consensus is that the bus drivers seem to think they are doing you a favour by transporting you from A to B.

Hmmmmm.

I wonder if,in your haste to board any bus,if you paused to note the status of the Busdriver ?

It may surprise you to learn that I also work with "Non-Nationals",Busdrivers all of 'em,from 63 different countries,who comprise c.15% of the DublinBus workforce.

I'm unsure of exactly where you are going with this line of arguement,but it certainly is far away from simply being about having to pay €2.80 for a Bus Trip from Donnybrook.

Trond · 15-12-2014 01:24PM

I use the 83 and to a lesser extent the 140.

Other than the odd occasion where Ive missed the bus by waiting that extra minute in work or at home, using the app Im happy enough with the service.

I don't really know what some people expect especially when the route involves a bus transiting the city centre. Id prefer a higher frequency on the 83 but I also realise that it isn't going to happen as it probably doesn't make sense commercially.

Its think the service on offer today is generally far better than it used to be.

Larbre34 · 15-12-2014 01:29PM

I don't accept the original premise. There are 3 high frequency routes through Donnybrook serving the City Centre. As a 46A user myself I know either it or a 39A or 145 passes Donnybrook Garda Station every 5-6 minutes max right through the day. The only way you would see a 30 minute wait would be due to an incident.

AlekSmart · 15-12-2014 01:39PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

I don't accept the original premise. There are 3 high frequency routes through Donnybrook serving the City Centre. As a 46A user myself I know either it or a 39A or 145 passes Donnybrook Garda Station every 5-6 minutes max right through the day. The only way you would see a 30 minute wait would be due to an incident.

Agreed,with the added reality that Saturday is THE day for a wide variety of "Street-Stuff" to hit-off.

Usually unplanned,and most certainly not advised to Gardai or DCC,these events,even if only lasting for 15 mins themselves then reverberate throughout Bus Services for often hours afterwards.

Much of the Public Transport disturbance problem associated with these incidents comes back down to Dublin Bus's services NOT being seen as an integral part of the functioning city,but rather stuff to be superimposed upon it.

This,added with a non-existent "Plan B" situation all leads far too often to total meltdown (Ref Last Wednesdays disgraceful carry-on) :mad:

Lucena · 15-12-2014 01:40PM

lxflyer wrote: »

Virtually every bus now has announcements on board for every single stop.

Every new bus has electronic displays showing the next stop.

Well, things are improving then. Must be more than a year so since I took the bus.

Trond · 15-12-2014 02:02PM

Not a call to arms but I generally find those who complain the most and the loudest tend not to use buses regularly. Maybe im lucky but the majority of routes Ive ever had the need to use I can generally find a similar alternative (within 10-15mins walk). I've a load of bus stop in the favourites section of the app and just take it from there.

mmmcake · 15-12-2014 02:02PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

The last few weeks there have been times on Saturday, generally around 3 when I was waiting 18-30 mins for a bus.

So you have gone from 30 mins to 18 mins, how long before you are down to 10-12 mins?
Exaggerate to much and you lose all credibility, i would disregard your claim.

Glinda · 15-12-2014 02:02PM

lxflyer wrote: »

You must be very unlucky in your drivers.

As someone who uses the bus every day, I do encounter the odd "bad apple" but the vast majority of drivers are decent people.

I don't use Dublin Bus very often but I have had two very negative experiences in the five or so journeys I have taken in the last couple of years.

The first was in the summer before my eldest started secondary school when we decided to do a 'practice run' of the school journey she would be taking every day from September. Knowing I was a bit out of date, I looked up the stop numbers etc. and the correct fare on the DB website (this was ridiculously complicated, but leaving that aside) I made sure we had the exact amount of the fare and we went out to the bus stop. She was excited and looking forward to the journey and I was happy that I was showing her the way to the new school and introducing her to the bus etc. as she hadn't been on before.

The bus arrived on time and we got on together. I said where we were going and held out the money for the driver. He just stared at me for ages without saying anything (with everyone else in the queue stuck behind me) and without taking the money. I was confused and embarrassed as I didn't have a clue what was wrong. Eventually he mumbled something that I couldn't hear, so I said 'pardon?' he then roared at me "How long are you living in Dublin??!" I think I said "what?" (now completely confused). "How. Long. Have. You. Been. Living. In. Dublin?" Like I was a complete idiot. I answered that I'd lived here all my life. Even more confused. Very embarrassed now almost to the point of tears, lots of people behind me all looking on. My kid wanting to die of shame. "Then you know we DON'T TAKE PAPER MONEY ON BUSES".

Actually, I didn't know. Because the two fares came to over five euro I had a €5 note and some coins. We had to get off and go back to the house and get change. Felt like crap, what was supposed to be a little adventure turned sour.

Second time (some time later as I had been badly put off by the guy above) I hopped on a bus in Merrion Square to go to Ballsbridge. This time I felt fairly safe as I had armed myself with a Leap card. I got on the bus and went up to the driver. He asked where I was going and I said Ballsbridge. He said "where in Ballsbridge? (fair enough) and I replied that I was getting off at Hume House (which is fairly well known). He said sarcastically "Am I supposed to know where that is?". Well, I don't know whether you are supposed to know or not, but if you don't all you have to do is say so politely.

I avoid Dublin Bus now as much as possible as I don't need to encounter this type of individual. My day is tough enough as it is thanks.

Even if it is only a minority of drivers who are rude, it is a fairly substantial minority. Too many to bother using this option when there are other ways to get around.

steddyeddy · 15-12-2014 02:38PM

AlekSmart wrote: »

Hmmmmm.

I wonder if,in your haste to board any bus,if you paused to note the status of the Busdriver ?

It may surprise you to learn that I also work with "Non-Nationals",Busdrivers all of 'em,from 63 different countries,who comprise c.15% of the DublinBus workforce.

I'm unsure of exactly where you are going with this line of arguement,but it certainly is far away from simply being about having to pay €2.80 for a Bus Trip from Donnybrook.

I use non-nationals to point out the fact that they are non nationals. I used them in my argument because they have lived in other countries and are able to compare bus services. Simple as that.

steddyeddy · 15-12-2014 02:41PM

True Glinda. You see guys I hate to be patronising but allowing certain drivers to leave when they like, to pass by people at stops to abuse customers or to have general attitude problems isn't how you run a service.

jd83 · 15-12-2014 02:42PM

I got a bus from Dun laoighre to Carrickmines yesterday and the price was 2.80.

its an absolute rip off but when you add in the rude drivers, absolute crappy service and turn up if when we feel like it approach to timetabling its scandalous.

Its also infuriating when you go on holiday to other countries and you see how efficient their services are and so much cheaper.

steddyeddy · 15-12-2014 02:43PM

mmmcake wrote: »

So you have gone from 30 mins to 18 mins, how long before you are down to 10-12 mins?
Exaggerate to much and you lose all credibility, i would disregard your claim.

18-30 mins is the range of times I have been waiting for a bus at that stop over several weeks.

drumswan · 15-12-2014 02:43PM

Im happy with the price and service of Dublin bus. Inbound buses on Rathmines Rd Lwr are very frequent and a couple of quid to be dropped into town is grand.

drumswan · 15-12-2014 02:44PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

18-30 mins is the range of times I have been waiting for a bus at that stop over several weeks.

Why do you wait at the stop? There are apps to tell you when the bus is coming, its not 1981.

LXFlyer · 15-12-2014 02:47PM

jd83 wrote: »

I got a bus from Dun laoighre to Carrickmines yesterday and the price was 2.80.

its an absolute rip of but when you add in the rude drivers, absolute crappy service and turn up if when we feel like it approach to timetabling its scandolous.

And if you used LEAP, the fare would have been €2.05.

People have to understand that the cash fares are deliberately being set at a higher level to get people to switch to LEAP.

That differential may grow even more.

steddyeddy · 15-12-2014 02:47PM

drumswan wrote: »

Why do you wait at the stop? There are apps to tell you when the bus is coming, its not 1981.

Yes I know that. There is a sign telling me estimates of when the bus is coming but you're missing the point. It's a public bus service and it really should be run better.

OrgasmicBaz · 15-12-2014 02:49PM

I think they should just do a set fare no matter how far the journey. Something around €2.50, keep everyone happy

drumswan · 15-12-2014 02:50PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

Yes I know that. There is a sign telling me estimates of when the bus is coming but you're missing the point. It's a public bus service and it really should be run better.

You wont use LEAP and complain of the prices and you wont use RTPI and complain about standing around at stops waiting for buses. I dont think DB is the issue here.

mmmcake · 15-12-2014 02:52PM

Glinda wrote: »

Very embarrassed now almost to the point of tears,

Me thinks you might be too fragile for public transport

LXFlyer · 15-12-2014 02:53PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

True Glinda. You see guys I hate to be patronising but allowing certain drivers to leave when they like, to pass by people at stops to abuse customers or to have general attitude problems isn't how you run a service.

Let's not carried away here.

Drivers cannot "leave when they like". There is a control system that will flag up this sort of behaviour. They can only depart at different times when this is approved by the controller.

As I said above - the likelihood is that the service was disrupted by protests in the city centre - there is no other explanation for a gap of that magnitude on the N11 corridor.

I would agree that there is no excuse for being rude - but as I say that isn't representative of the vast majority of the drivers that I encounter.

steddyeddy · 15-12-2014 02:55PM

drumswan wrote: »

You wont use LEAP and complain of the prices and you wont use RTPI and complain about standing around at stops waiting for buses. I dont think DB is the issue here.

Are you reading things properly? I said I used to real time information to determine how long the next bus will be.

jd83 · 15-12-2014 03:05PM

lxflyer wrote: »

And if you used LEAP, the fare would have been €2.05.

People have to understand that the cash fares are deliberately being set at a higher level to get people to switch to LEAP.

That differential may grow even more.

I didnt have it with me but 2.05 is still expensive for an 8 km journey. For 2.20 in vienna for example I could travel across the entire city using multiple modes for transport.

ThunbergsAreGo · 15-12-2014 03:09PM

If a driver is rude, people should send in a complaint to Dublin Bus

Dublin Bus - can anyone be happy with the price and service?

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