Hard going Springer hard to find.

fiestaman · 31-12-2014 09:24AM

Because most lads went and got there bitch serviced by Hattonswood broc & minted Norman Blakney.

hathcock · 31-12-2014 11:19AM

fiestaman wrote: »

Because most lads went and got there bitch serviced by Hattonswood broc & minted Norman Blakney.

Fair play fiestaman,straight out with the kernel of the problem,no beating about the bush(forgive the pun),there's hardly a pedigree in Ireland that doesn't contain the aforementioned dog or some of his progeny,I call it the celtic tiger breeding programme,everyone and his mother taking their bitch,good or bad, to the latest in vogue ftch.Is it any wonder that there is a real concern among those who care about the breed.

Dawggone · 31-12-2014 11:30AM

fitzy_fitzy wrote: »

Fair point from Irish Setter
Why hasn't the shooting fraternity maintained the old type springer?

For goodness sake man the trialling community are the GUARDIANS of the breed!!
I'm NOT blaming the trialling men for the demise of the shooting dog.
It's the trials are to blame. Ten minutes on a driven shoot with soft cover isn't going to produce too many Woodcock dogs

It's for the trialling community to lead the way.
The nub of the issue is that the breed standard is in the hands of the English and most of the spaniels in the UK are used for beating on driven shoots.
How many trials are held on Woodcock in punishing cover....none.

I repeat. It's not the trialling men at fault. They compete to win trials so why breed a big lump of a headbanger to be the first home from trials every day?
It's the trials that need to change not the people that compete.

Dawggone · 31-12-2014 11:33AM

fiestaman wrote: »

Because most lads went and got there bitch serviced by Hattonswood broc & minted Norman Blakney.

LOL. One man and his dog are to blame for the demise of spaniels.
Pure poppycock.
LOL.

hathcock · 31-12-2014 11:36AM

It's the trials that need to change not the people that compete.[/QUOTE]

How does one change the trials without changing those involved?

dodderangler · 31-12-2014 11:36AM

Dawggone wrote: »

Pure poppycock.
.

I can bet there's a trials champion dog out there called that

Dawggone · 31-12-2014 11:54AM

hathcock wrote: »

It's the trials that need to change not the people that compete.

How does one change the trials without changing those involved?[/quote]

The custodians of the breed can change it i.e. The English Springer Club in conjunction with The Kennel Club.

I wouldn't hold my breath though as there is absolutely no appetite for it in the powers that be!

hathcock · 31-12-2014 11:58AM

Dawggone wrote: »

How does one change the trials without changing those involved?

The custodians of the breed can change it i.e. The English Springer Club in conjunction with The Kennel Club.

I wouldn't hold my breath though as there is absolutely no appetite for it in the powers that be![/QUOTE]

There's the money factor also,up to 400 euro a service,that's not to be sneezed at either.Hard to turn down that kind of money if someone arrives at your door looking for a service,regardless how good or bad the bitch is,

Dawggone · 31-12-2014 12:02PM

hathcock wrote: »

The custodians of the breed can change it i.e. The English Springer Club in conjunction with The Kennel Club.

I wouldn't hold my breath though as there is absolutely no appetite for it in the powers that be!

There's the money factor also,up to 400 euro a service,that's not to be sneezed at either.Hard to turn down that kind of money if someone arrives at your door looking for a service,regardless how good or bad the bitch is,[/quote]

I stand a stud dog now at €1000 (not an ESS), why would I insult a mans bitch by telling him to p1ss off?

hathcock · 31-12-2014 12:06PM

Dawggone wrote: »

There's the money factor also,up to 400 euro a service,that's not to be sneezed at either.Hard to turn down that kind of money if someone arrives at your door looking for a service,regardless how good or bad the bitch is,

I stand a stud dog now at €1000 (not an ESS), why would I insult a mans bitch by telling him to p1ss off?[/QUOTE]

Nice money to be sure,and that is the argument that is used to justify any old breeding,it's old but true still...money is the root of all evil.

blackpearl · 31-12-2014 12:42PM

Have to agree irish setter but not trying to change, the same can be said of red setters hard to find the old type big setter,i have kept this breed myself but it is hard to find bitches or dogs of the same build its all about speed and style now,most of these dogs wont last over a full days hunting.

fiestaman · 31-12-2014 01:54PM

Dawggone wrote: »

There's the money factor also,up to 400 euro a service,that's not to be sneezed at either.Hard to turn down that kind of money if someone arrives at your door looking for a service,regardless how good or bad the bitch is,

I stand a stud dog now at €1000 (not an ESS), why would I insult a mans bitch by telling him to p1ss off?[/QUOTE]

There you go, mans bitch is no good, breeds from your dog, He has a litter and only one make a good one and 4 are out there been bred again because they have your dogs name behind them. I never said one man was to blame I simply said a lot of lads took their bitches to that dog wheatear they were good or bad.

Dawggone · 31-12-2014 03:06PM

fiestaman wrote: »

I stand a stud dog now at €1000 (not an ESS), why would I insult a mans bitch by telling him to p1ss off?

There you go, mans bitch is no good, breeds from your dog, He has a litter and only one make a good one and 4 are out there been bred again because they have your dogs name behind them. I never said one man was to blame I simply said a lot of lads took their bitches to that dog wheatear they were good or bad.[/quote]

So?

fiestaman · 31-12-2014 04:19PM

Dawggone wrote: »

There you go, mans bitch is no good, breeds from your dog, He has a litter and only one make a good one and 4 are out there been bred again because they have your dogs name behind them. I never said one man was to blame I simply said a lot of lads took their bitches to that dog wheatear they were good or bad.

So?[/QUOTE]
Read it again if you don't understand it

thehound · 31-12-2014 04:40PM

lad i know got a springer 3years ago from friends of his in dublin this dog is massive big dog would go all day dont know if he has papers on not but if he does the job thats all you want

Kells1 · 31-12-2014 07:17PM

How many trials are held on Woodcock in punishing cover....none.

I repeat. It's not the trialling men at fault. They compete to win trials so why breed a big lump of a headbanger to be the first home from trials every day?
It's the trials that need to change not the people that compete.[/quote]

Totally agree with this. Dawgone you hit the nail on the head again

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Hard going Springer hard to find.

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