Silage wagon

eric prydz · 28-12-2014 3:20pm #1

Thinking this past while about moveing away from precision chop and buying myself a new or nearly new silage wagon,i have the mower,rake etc,what would ye recommend?

Miname · 28-12-2014 3:25pm

eric prydz wrote: »

Thinking this past while about moveing away from precision chop and buying myself a new or nearly new silage wagon,i have the mower,rake etc,what would ye recommend?

Get a lad to do it. Wagon silage is from 70-100 an acre round here. Unless your cutting massive acres its a ridiculous spend. Labour has to be factored in as well and it's rare to get a good second hand one.

eric prydz · 28-12-2014 3:33pm

Miname wrote: »

Get a lad to do it. Wagon silage is from 70-100 an acre round here. Unless your cutting massive acres its a ridiculous spend. Labour has to be factored in as well and it's rare to get a good second hand one.

Well ive 150 acres of my own to pick up and giving a contractor 100 euros+vat seems like dead money to me have 3 trailers to sell aswell to offset the cost

Timmaay · 28-12-2014 4:27pm

eric prydz wrote: »

Well ive 150 acres of my own to pick up and giving a contractor 100 euros+vat seems like dead money to me have 3 trailers to sell aswell to offset the cost

For 150 acres I really cannot see how it would pay, but anyways do out all of your sums, cost of the wagon, cost to cut /tedder etc, loading it into the pit etc, do you have sufficiently big tractors and a good enough mower/buck rack for that, obviously cost in all labour, then maintainance, any interest if you need to borrow money for machinery. If after all that it still pays over your own contractor then he obviously is charging waaayyy too much.

Greengrass1 · 28-12-2014 4:49pm

eric prydz wrote: »

Thinking this past while about moveing away from precision chop and buying myself a new or nearly new silage wagon,i have the mower,rake etc,what would ye recommend?

Have you got 130/150hp tractor already? Good S/H wagon could be 15/20k .
Have you a loader to push up or another tractor?
You will lots of lads saying doing your own silage is not the way to go but at least you know your silage will be done in ideal condition

eric prydz · 28-12-2014 5:15pm

Timmaay wrote: »

For 150 acres I really cannot see how it would pay, but anyways do out all of your sums, cost of the wagon, cost to cut /tedder etc, loading it into the pit etc, do you have sufficiently big tractors and a good enough mower/buck rack for that, obviously cost in all labour, then maintainance, any interest if you need to borrow money for machinery. If after all that it still pays over your own contractor then he obviously is charging waaayyy too much.

Well if I buy a wagon new and run it over ten years and keep it in good order il still have a resale value on it going by second hand wagon prices,i used to run a trailed machine but joined up with a sp outfit to gain more output and im sort of trying to get out of this type of work because of money differences and id to have three drivers every day silage was on,ive no problem getting a good loader man.

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Have you got 130/150hp tractor already? Good S/H wagon could be 15/20k .
Have you a loader to push up or another tractor?
You will lots of lads saying doing your own silage is not the way to go but at least you know your silage will be done in ideal condition

I have everything in the yard bar the wagon at present.
Im thinking that sort of money to get into any decent sort of a wagon along with a few pound to yoke her for 2015

The thing is with having your own outfit is that you can go on whenever you want and not be depending on other people.

Greengrass1 · 28-12-2014 5:52pm

eric prydz wrote: »

Well if I buy a wagon new and run it over ten years and keep it in good order il still have a resale value on it going by second hand wagon prices,i used to run a trailed machine but joined up with a sp outfit to gain more output and im sort of trying to get out of this type of work because of money differences and id to have three drivers every day silage was on,ive no problem getting a good loader man.

I have everything in the yard bar the wagon at present.
Im thinking that sort of money to get into any decent sort of a wagon along with a few pound to yoke her for 2015
The thing is with having your own outfit is that you can go on whenever you want and not be depending on other people.

Belt on I say. You have everything else and you could pick up a lot if work with the wagon.
Heard of an awful lot of clamps splitting this yr. Ye won't have that prob with a wagon

Bullocks · 28-12-2014 6:00pm

I think if you are already doing your own and have the gear a wagon will be a lot handier than 3 trailers and a self propelled. If you're going to spend 20k you should get a good reliable machine too

eric prydz · 28-12-2014 6:16pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Belt on I say. You have everything else and you could pick up a lot if work with the wagon.
Heard of an awful lot of clamps splitting this yr. Ye won't have that prob with a wagon

Ive been in talks with one farmer already whod get me to pick up with the wagon and hed do all the rest which suits me as I wouldn't be pressed into having extra drivers though im not pushed either way ifykwim.

Bullocks wrote: »

I think if you are already doing your own and have the gear a wagon will be a lot handier than 3 trailers and a self propelled. If you're going to spend 20k you should get a good reliable machine too

Its the organisation of drivers that's my main problem its very hard to find 3 good trailer men.
What are the main things to watch out for on a used wagon,do knifebanks give much trouble and how often do you sharpen the knives?

smokey-fitz · 28-12-2014 6:17pm

Also whats stopping you from doing a bit of contracting yourself if you have all the equipment and the time? Will help the machine pay for itself quicker too.

Edit: just seen your last post.. sounds ideal, if you got a few more just for pick-up it would be ideal.

Bullocks · 28-12-2014 6:25pm

eric prydz wrote: »

Its the organisation of drivers that's my main problem its very hard to find 3 good trailer men.
What are the main things to watch out for on a used wagon,do knifebanks give much trouble and how often do you sharpen the knives?

It was trying to find drivers that made us switch , the father can have it all cut while im at work and it only takes the two of us to pick it up and pit it now .
Last year was our first year with a wagon so I'm no expert but td5man might be good for advice if he pops in

eric prydz · 28-12-2014 6:39pm

smokey-fitz wrote: »

Also whats stopping you from doing a bit of contracting yourself if you have all the equipment and the time? Will help the machine pay for itself quicker too.

Edit: just seen your last post.. sounds ideal, if you got a few more just for pick-up it would be ideal.

Well I suppose I think differently than everyone else but long draws would put me off and id be trying to do everything with just one extra man.

Bullocks wrote: »

It was trying to find drivers that made us switch , the father can have it all cut while im at work and it only takes the two of us to pick it up and pit it now .
Last year was our first year with a wagon so I'm no expert but td5man might be good for advice if he pops in

What sort of a wagon are you running yourself?

onyerbikepat · 28-12-2014 6:39pm

You have to factor in aswell the extra quality, you are more likely to make by having your own kit. This year wasn't the norm for Ireland, chances are with a contractor you'll have the odd year where quality suffers because it was made in wet weather.

Bullocks · 28-12-2014 6:48pm

eric prydz wrote: »

Well I suppose I think differently than everyone else but long draws would put me off and id be trying to do everything with just one extra man.

What sort of a wagon are you running yourself?

A krone 4500 turbo (I think its 4500 anyhow ☺) , got it for €4500 . Its grand for that sort of money for all we have to do . The cam casing broke on the last few loads last year but I think it was the brother was driving the bag out of it to see how quick he could fill a load !

mahoney_j · 28-12-2014 6:57pm

Seriously thinking of going the wagon route as stock much prefer the longer chop length.sp silage is just too finally chopped now .as for quality wether it's sp,wagon or bales has little to do with it it's the type of grass and stage of cutting which determines it.also I'm told with wagon silage you fit a good bit less in the pit and is seemingly afull stuff for a loader man to clamp and roll.at 150 acres I'd question wether it'll be worth ur while .has any local contractor got one ,if so he is all you'd need as you can cut,tedd,rake and clamp ur self as it is without further investment ??

Miname · 28-12-2014 7:37pm

You have everything so why not do everything else and sub in the wagon part.

visatorro · 28-12-2014 7:54pm

I think I change my mind on this every time I go to the pit!! as mahoney said it takes up more space in the pit, I find anyway. I find the loader cant compact the the last few loads because he's kinda bulling them in to fit in the pit, iykwim. im only talkin about my own place here.

OP how long will it take to bring in your silage? id wouldn't take on to do it myself , a self propelled will horse in silage fairly quick, with a good lad on the pit and maybe a second tractor tramping at the same time youll still make good stuff. and youll have a few extra lads to throw up tyres

defo get contractor with wagon to do silage once anyway before buying one.

just an add on a local contractor bought a self propelled off a farmer in the north. he used to do all wagon silage then pick up a few acres with sp and scatter is on top of the pit. reckons it sealed it better,,,,

td5man · 28-12-2014 7:59pm

Bullocks wrote: »

A krone 4500 turbo (I think its 4500 anyhow ☺) , got it for €4500 . Its grand for that sort of money for all we have to do . The cam casing broke on the last few loads last year but I think it was the brother was driving the bag out of it to see how quick he could fill a load !

3500 turbo I think it is. Krone turbos are fairly simple/trouble free.
Bigger/newer krones give trouble, pottinger would be my choice if going for a newer version.
Length of draw dictates the size of wagon you need.

28-12-2014 8:35pm

eric prydz wrote: »

Thinking this past while about moveing away from precision chop and buying myself a new or nearly new silage wagon,i have the mower,rake etc,what would ye recommend?

Strautman. Lad i work for has a strautman supervitesse and a pottinger europrofi. strautman all the way. The pottinger is expensive to keep going and isnt as well built as the strautman. strautman is smaller but weighs a ton more
Strautman chops better , is easier to drive, two wagons in the same field with identical tractors, strautman was picking a gear higher .

Bullocks · 28-12-2014 8:55pm

td5man wrote: »

3500 turbo I think it is. Krone turbos are fairly simple/trouble free.
Bigger/newer krones give trouble, pottinger would be my choice if going for a newer version.
Length of draw dictates the size of wagon you need.

Thanks td5 you are right , I am mixing up the model no. with the money !

frazzledhome · 28-12-2014 8:57pm

9935452 wrote: »

Strautman. Lad i work for has a strautman supervitesse and a pottinger europrofi. strautman all the way. The pottinger is expensive to keep going and isnt as well built as the strautman. strautman is smaller but weighs a ton more
Strautman chops better , is easier to drive, two wagons in the same field with identical tractors, strautman was picking a gear higher .

We mow tedd and pit ourselves with contractor supplying rake and wagon.
He used to have a Strautman Giga Vitesse, not worth a shyte as it only bends grass. Really quick to pick up and clear a field.
Smaller Strautman does a great job. I do the clamping and dread the big machine.
Other contractor we use has a Lely really fantastic machine. It's huge and clears ground aswell as a lovely chop making clamping much easier.

If I were you I'd leave the wagon to someone else and do the rest yourself

stanflt · 28-12-2014 10:22pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

We mow tedd and pit ourselves with contractor supplying rake and wagon.
He used to have a Strautman Giga Vitesse, not worth a shyte as it only bends grass. Really quick to pick up and clear a field.
Smaller Strautman does a great job. I do the clamping and dread the big machine.
Other contractor we use has a Lely really fantastic machine. It's huge and clears ground aswell as a lovely chop making clamping much easier.

If I were you I'd leave the wagon to someone else and do the rest yourself

A big plus one on this

It's grand to have your own mower and Tedder but leave the wagon to a contractor

28-12-2014 11:04pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

We mow tedd and pit ourselves with contractor supplying rake and wagon.
He used to have a Strautman Giga Vitesse, not worth a shyte as it only bends grass. Really quick to pick up and clear a field.
Smaller Strautman does a great job. I do the clamping and dread the big machine.
Other contractor we use has a Lely really fantastic machine. It's huge and clears ground aswell as a lovely chop making clamping much easier.

If I were you I'd leave the wagon to someone else and do the rest yourself

Our strautman has a great chop. Pottinger with a full set of sharp knives cant match it .
If it only bends the grass the blades need sharpening or replacing or he only has half the blades fitted . worth checking at dinner time.
All it takes is a couple of blades in the middle to be missing.
i know a contractor in cork who runs 3 strautman giga vitesse and is serious about chopping grass. When they pull in for dinner they would have a man changing/ sharpening blades/knives. Their reasoning is they are in competition with self propelled harvesters and need a good chop. Their knives are like razor blades

frazzledhome · 28-12-2014 11:35pm

This is the dogs cahones

keep going · 28-12-2014 11:35pm

stanflt wrote: »

A big plus one on this

It's grand to have your own mower and Tedder but leave the wagon to a contractor

I would agree .I myself mow rake and buckrake and hire in wagon.after all you need to hire someone to help anywway and these wwgons like not only power but a bit weight in front of them and isnt better to have them driving their own gear and you are getting good efficentcy out of your own tractor..its nice to be able to mow at the right time and as said earlier the man on the pit is more important than with precision.hire it for one year and see how it goes

Milked out · 28-12-2014 11:40pm

Would a sp with some knives removed give any result similar to a wagon

28-12-2014 11:44pm

Milked out wrote: »

Would a sp with some knives removed give any result similar to a wagon

Hard to say really . The chop varies so much on a wagon.
Some lads on self propelled do remove half the knives trying to get a longer chop

onyerbikepat · 28-12-2014 11:45pm

9935452 wrote: »

.... When they pull in for dinner they would have a man changing/ sharpening blades/knives. Their reasoning is they are in competition with self propelled harvesters and need a good chop. Their knives are like razor blades

They will also use less diesel with sharper blades.

st1979 · 28-12-2014 11:50pm

strautmann super vitesse here. Very simple machine and easy enough to get parts iam have all in stock. pottinger parts are way dearer. used a new krone this year very nice machine maybe little more power required than strautmann. Had contractor pick up with giga was massive performance

28-12-2014 11:58pm

onyerbikepat wrote: »

They will also use less diesel with sharper blades.

I dont think diesel is a factor here. The boys were adamant they were in direct competition with self propelled.
I do think another factor is they need to give the man on the pit some chance . We run 2 wagons and on a short draw in a tight yard the man on the pit would be under pressure.
Could you imagine 3 giga vitesses arriving at the yard together, Roughly 3 acres of silage. At least with trailers they are staggered

eric prydz · 29-12-2014 12:00am

visatorro wrote: »

I think I change my mind on this every time I go to the pit!! as mahoney said it takes up more space in the pit, I find anyway. I find the loader cant compact the the last few loads because he's kinda bulling them in to fit in the pit, iykwim. im only talkin about my own place here.

OP how long will it take to bring in your silage? id wouldn't take on to do it myself , a self propelled will horse in silage fairly quick, with a good lad on the pit and maybe a second tractor tramping at the same time youll still make good stuff. and youll have a few extra lads to throw up tyres

defo get contractor with wagon to do silage once anyway before buying one.

just an add on a local contractor bought a self propelled off a farmer in the north. he used to do all wagon silage then pick up a few acres with sp and scatter is on top of the pit. reckons it sealed it better,,,,

Well id be planning to cut around 50acres a time/pit so il be able to mow it all down I should be able to pick it up the next day with a reasonable wagon, as it all around the pit with no long draws. I don't like the idea of hireing in anyone

frazzledhome · 29-12-2014 12:02am

One thing I'll say is you won't go back to pc silage. Animals love the longer chop. Silage lasts longer in front of them

eric prydz · 29-12-2014 12:16am

Milked out wrote: »

Would a sp with some knives removed give any result similar to a wagon

It would definally result in more hardship picking up with more chockages

st1979 wrote: »

strautmann super vitesse here. Very simple machine and easy enough to get parts iam have all in stock. pottinger parts are way dearer. used a new krone this year very nice machine maybe little more power required than strautmann. Had contractor pick up with giga was massive performance

What are the main areas of wear on your wagon?
I like the look of the krone r50 myself anyone running one?

9935452 wrote: »

I dont think diesel is a factor here. The boys were adamant they were in direct competition with self propelled.
I do think another factor is they need to give the man on the pit some chance . We run 2 wagons and on a short draw in a tight yard the man on the pit would be under pressure.
Could you imagine 3 giga vitesses arriving at the yard together, Roughly 3 acres of silage. At least with trailers they are staggered

What way do you sharpen the knives in a wagon?

Deepsouthwest · 29-12-2014 12:28pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

One thing I'll say is you won't go back to pc silage. Animals love the longer chop. Silage lasts longer in front of them

Starting to convert to this way of thinking. Brought this up at a walk here a few yrs ago, I said that I'm always finding it hard to get cows in better condition when they're dry and on PC silage. Was approached by a v good farmer after who said since he made the switch to bale silage he can't believe improvement it made on cow condition. After last yrs bumper grass growth I'm just finishing feeding nearly 500(normally only have 100) surplus bales here now, and cows in great order. Is it simply down to chop lenght?

Dawggone · 29-12-2014 1:47pm

Used wagon once here and never again.

It may be fine for dry's etc. but for milkers it's crap. Hard to keep the face of the pit from heating also...unless you have a good shear grab I suppose.

frazzledhome · 29-12-2014 2:43pm

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Starting to convert to this way of thinking. Brought this up at a walk here a few yrs ago, I said that I'm always finding it hard to get cows in better condition when they're dry and on PC silage. Was approached by a v good farmer after who said since he made the switch to bale silage he can't believe improvement it made on cow condition. After last yrs bumper grass growth I'm just finishing feeding nearly 500(normally only have 100) surplus bales here now, and cows in great order. Is it simply down to chop lenght?

DSW, just had all drys through race for lice and footbaths. I couldn't get over the condition of the cows. Not 1 to be seperated.

It think its chop length can't back this up though. We're still on bales and I'd say we've enough till Feb. Milkers out then and no pit opened. In calfs are on pit.

Greengrass1 · 29-12-2014 2:51pm

frazzledhome wrote: »

DSW, just had all drys through race for lice and footbaths. I couldn't get over the condition of the cows. Not 1 to be seperated.

It think its chop length can't back this up though. We're still on bales and I'd say we've enough till Feb. Milkers out then and no pit opened. In calfs are on pit.

Cows here you could sleep on there back.
That's not very ideal though

mahoney_j · 29-12-2014 3:04pm

Greengrass1 wrote: »

Cows here you could sleep on there back.
That's not very ideal though

Start putting that diet feeder to use and add straw,fat cows are a bigger problem than thin ones at calving,big calves ,hard calvings and milk fever.ran all cows through crush here this am to be footbathed ,condition excellent also ,on ad lib 74 dmd precision chop silage with 2 kg oaten straw.really getting to hate sp silage ,just too finely chopped,had to use tine grab this am as burst pipe in shear grab and dropped bits all over yard.all young stock on wraps and flying .local guy has bought a big lely wagon,might be giving him a try this year.

Greengrass1 · 29-12-2014 3:09pm

mahoney_j wrote: »

Start putting that diet feeder to use and add straw,fat cows are a bigger problem than thin ones at calving,big calves ,hard calvings and milk fever.ran all cows through crush here this am to be footbathed ,condition excellent also ,on ad lib 74 dmd precision chop silage with 2 kg oaten straw.really getting to hate sp silage ,just too finely chopped,had to use tine grab this am as burst pipe in shear grab and dropped bits all over yard.all young stock on wraps and flying .local guy has bought a big lely wagon,might be giving him a try this year.

I would but I've no way of splitting up ones that need a bit more.
69 DMD silage in out farm. Might switcg to that

Panch18 · 29-12-2014 3:28pm

Been using all bales for the cows at home for the last 10 years now

Never go back to pit silage I'd say - and if we do it will probably be wagon

The longer chop is definitely better for stock

29-12-2014 9:16pm

eric prydz wrote: »

It would definally result in more hardship picking up with more chockages

What are the main areas of wear on your wagon?
I like the look of the krone r50 myself anyone running one?

What way do you sharpen the knives in a wagon?

Take them out , clamp them down . flap disc on the angle grinder to bring up the edge. Hopefully going to convince the boss next year to buy a machine to sharpen them. 2 wagons plus spare knives for each and baler. you could spend the day sharpening them all.

Greengrass1 · 29-12-2014 9:49pm

9935452 wrote: »

Take them out , clamp them down . flap disc on the angle grinder to bring up the edge. Hopefully going to convince the boss next year to buy a machine to sharpen them. 2 wagons plus spare knives for each and baler. you could spend the day sharpening them all.

Flap disk worst yoke you can sharpen knives with. Heats the disk and edge goes after few min.
A purple grind stone on the bench grinder is what ye need. That's what's in the sharpening machine

farm14 · 03-01-2015 8:27pm

eric prydz wrote: »

Thinking this past while about moveing away from precision chop and buying myself a new or nearly new silage wagon,i have the mower,rake etc,what would. ye recommend?

We went away from precision chop silage, cattle not cudding right its cut too short. Alot of contractors make mulch. Stuff made by wagon is a better silage less effluent produced as is gentlier handled & more sugars retained in long grass. A 130hp tractor would pull a big one.

Miname · 03-01-2015 8:45pm

eric prydz wrote: »

It would definally result in more hardship picking up with more chockages

What are the main areas of wear on your wagon?

Theres a couple of grease nipples in under the bottom of them that most lads dont bother with, when they get sticky they can result in too much strain on the gear boxes that usually end up going in sh1te

What way do you sharpen the knives in a wagon?

Theres a machine nearly like a grinder on a frame that has a clamping mechanism that is set to the required angle and cleans it back evenly. the floppy disc on the grinder works too but theres too completly different edges between the too.

kevthegaff · 22-09-2021 9:28am

Are many lads still making wagon silage?

Morris Moss · 22-09-2021 9:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922610#Comment_117922610

Did the second cut with one here, mainly to see if it would suit us in the future

IMG_20210716_190839.jpg

jaymla627 · 22-09-2021 10:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922610#Comment_117922610

Circa 300 acres a year done here with wagons, no bales made as all surplus goes into pit

kevthegaff · 22-09-2021 3:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922822#Comment_117922822

How do u find silage quality

jaymla627 · 22-09-2021 3:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924287#Comment_117924287

It's top quality, but use a additive on all of it here and put a second tractor on pit rolling when loader starts to get under pressure, rolling is the key with it, a badly rolled pit of wagon silage is a disaster for waste and heating versus precision chop

K.G. · 22-09-2021 6:53pm

Yip.no notion of doing anything else.bales....shudders

kevthegaff · 22-09-2021 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924362#Comment_117924362

Pity an extra driver is needed. Throughout? Or just at the end?

Silage wagon

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