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Silage wagon

  • 28-12-2014 3:20pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭ eric prydz


    Thinking this past while about moveing away from precision chop and buying myself a new or nearly new silage wagon,i have the mower,rake etc,what would ye recommend?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,984 Miname


    eric prydz wrote: »
    Thinking this past while about moveing away from precision chop and buying myself a new or nearly new silage wagon,i have the mower,rake etc,what would ye recommend?
    Get a lad to do it. Wagon silage is from 70-100 an acre round here. Unless your cutting massive acres its a ridiculous spend. Labour has to be factored in as well and it's rare to get a good second hand one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭ eric prydz


    Miname wrote: »
    Get a lad to do it. Wagon silage is from 70-100 an acre round here. Unless your cutting massive acres its a ridiculous spend. Labour has to be factored in as well and it's rare to get a good second hand one.

    Well ive 150 acres of my own to pick up and giving a contractor 100 euros+vat seems like dead money to me have 3 trailers to sell aswell to offset the cost


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,386 ✭✭✭✭ Timmaay


    eric prydz wrote: »
    Well ive 150 acres of my own to pick up and giving a contractor 100 euros+vat seems like dead money to me have 3 trailers to sell aswell to offset the cost

    For 150 acres I really cannot see how it would pay, but anyways do out all of your sums, cost of the wagon, cost to cut /tedder etc, loading it into the pit etc, do you have sufficiently big tractors and a good enough mower/buck rack for that, obviously cost in all labour, then maintainance, any interest if you need to borrow money for machinery. If after all that it still pays over your own contractor then he obviously is charging waaayyy too much.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 Greengrass1


    eric prydz wrote: »
    Thinking this past while about moveing away from precision chop and buying myself a new or nearly new silage wagon,i have the mower,rake etc,what would ye recommend?

    Have you got 130/150hp tractor already? Good S/H wagon could be 15/20k .
    Have you a loader to push up or another tractor?
    You will lots of lads saying doing your own silage is not the way to go but at least you know your silage will be done in ideal condition


  • Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭ eric prydz


    Timmaay wrote: »
    For 150 acres I really cannot see how it would pay, but anyways do out all of your sums, cost of the wagon, cost to cut /tedder etc, loading it into the pit etc, do you have sufficiently big tractors and a good enough mower/buck rack for that, obviously cost in all labour, then maintainance, any interest if you need to borrow money for machinery. If after all that it still pays over your own contractor then he obviously is charging waaayyy too much.

    Well if I buy a wagon new and run it over ten years and keep it in good order il still have a resale value on it going by second hand wagon prices,i used to run a trailed machine but joined up with a sp outfit to gain more output and im sort of trying to get out of this type of work because of money differences and id to have three drivers every day silage was on,ive no problem getting a good loader man.

    Have you got 130/150hp tractor already? Good S/H wagon could be 15/20k .
    Have you a loader to push up or another tractor?
    You will lots of lads saying doing your own silage is not the way to go but at least you know your silage will be done in ideal condition

    I have everything in the yard bar the wagon at present.
    Im thinking that sort of money to get into any decent sort of a wagon along with a few pound to yoke her for 2015 :D
    The thing is with having your own outfit is that you can go on whenever you want and not be depending on other people.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 Greengrass1


    eric prydz wrote: »
    Well if I buy a wagon new and run it over ten years and keep it in good order il still have a resale value on it going by second hand wagon prices,i used to run a trailed machine but joined up with a sp outfit to gain more output and im sort of trying to get out of this type of work because of money differences and id to have three drivers every day silage was on,ive no problem getting a good loader man.




    I have everything in the yard bar the wagon at present.
    Im thinking that sort of money to get into any decent sort of a wagon along with a few pound to yoke her for 2015 :D
    The thing is with having your own outfit is that you can go on whenever you want and not be depending on other people.
    Belt on I say. You have everything else and you could pick up a lot if work with the wagon.
    Heard of an awful lot of clamps splitting this yr. Ye won't have that prob with a wagon


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,817 ✭✭✭ Bullocks


    I think if you are already doing your own and have the gear a wagon will be a lot handier than 3 trailers and a self propelled. If you're going to spend 20k you should get a good reliable machine too


  • Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭ eric prydz


    Belt on I say. You have everything else and you could pick up a lot if work with the wagon.
    Heard of an awful lot of clamps splitting this yr. Ye won't have that prob with a wagon

    Ive been in talks with one farmer already whod get me to pick up with the wagon and hed do all the rest which suits me as I wouldn't be pressed into having extra drivers though im not pushed either way ifykwim.

    Bullocks wrote: »
    I think if you are already doing your own and have the gear a wagon will be a lot handier than 3 trailers and a self propelled. If you're going to spend 20k you should get a good reliable machine too

    Its the organisation of drivers that's my main problem its very hard to find 3 good trailer men.
    What are the main things to watch out for on a used wagon,do knifebanks give much trouble and how often do you sharpen the knives?


  • Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭ smokey-fitz


    Also whats stopping you from doing a bit of contracting yourself if you have all the equipment and the time? Will help the machine pay for itself quicker too.

    Edit: just seen your last post.. sounds ideal, if you got a few more just for pick-up it would be ideal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,817 ✭✭✭ Bullocks


    eric prydz wrote: »
    Its the organisation of drivers that's my main problem its very hard to find 3 good trailer men.
    What are the main things to watch out for on a used wagon,do knifebanks give much trouble and how often do you sharpen the knives?
    It was trying to find drivers that made us switch , the father can have it all cut while im at work and it only takes the two of us to pick it up and pit it now .
    Last year was our first year with a wagon so I'm no expert but td5man might be good for advice if he pops in


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  • Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭ eric prydz


    Also whats stopping you from doing a bit of contracting yourself if you have all the equipment and the time? Will help the machine pay for itself quicker too.

    Edit: just seen your last post.. sounds ideal, if you got a few more just for pick-up it would be ideal.

    Well I suppose I think differently than everyone else but long draws would put me off and id be trying to do everything with just one extra man.
    Bullocks wrote: »
    It was trying to find drivers that made us switch , the father can have it all cut while im at work and it only takes the two of us to pick it up and pit it now .
    Last year was our first year with a wagon so I'm no expert but td5man might be good for advice if he pops in

    What sort of a wagon are you running yourself?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭ onyerbikepat


    You have to factor in aswell the extra quality, you are more likely to make by having your own kit. This year wasn't the norm for Ireland, chances are with a contractor you'll have the odd year where quality suffers because it was made in wet weather.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,817 ✭✭✭ Bullocks


    eric prydz wrote: »
    Well I suppose I think differently than everyone else but long draws would put me off and id be trying to do everything with just one extra man.



    What sort of a wagon are you running yourself?

    A krone 4500 turbo (I think its 4500 anyhow ☺) , got it for €4500 . Its grand for that sort of money for all we have to do . The cam casing broke on the last few loads last year but I think it was the brother was driving the bag out of it to see how quick he could fill a load !


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,138 ✭✭✭✭ mahoney_j


    Seriously thinking of going the wagon route as stock much prefer the longer chop length.sp silage is just too finally chopped now .as for quality wether it's sp,wagon or bales has little to do with it it's the type of grass and stage of cutting which determines it.also I'm told with wagon silage you fit a good bit less in the pit and is seemingly afull stuff for a loader man to clamp and roll.at 150 acres I'd question wether it'll be worth ur while .has any local contractor got one ,if so he is all you'd need as you can cut,tedd,rake and clamp ur self as it is without further investment ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,984 Miname


    You have everything so why not do everything else and sub in the wagon part.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,998 ✭✭✭ visatorro


    I think I change my mind on this every time I go to the pit!! as mahoney said it takes up more space in the pit, I find anyway. I find the loader cant compact the the last few loads because he's kinda bulling them in to fit in the pit, iykwim. im only talkin about my own place here.

    OP how long will it take to bring in your silage? id wouldn't take on to do it myself , a self propelled will horse in silage fairly quick, with a good lad on the pit and maybe a second tractor tramping at the same time youll still make good stuff. and youll have a few extra lads to throw up tyres

    defo get contractor with wagon to do silage once anyway before buying one.

    just an add on a local contractor bought a self propelled off a farmer in the north. he used to do all wagon silage then pick up a few acres with sp and scatter is on top of the pit. reckons it sealed it better,,,,


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,081 ✭✭✭ td5man


    Bullocks wrote: »
    A krone 4500 turbo (I think its 4500 anyhow ☺) , got it for €4500 . Its grand for that sort of money for all we have to do . The cam casing broke on the last few loads last year but I think it was the brother was driving the bag out of it to see how quick he could fill a load !

    3500 turbo I think it is. Krone turbos are fairly simple/trouble free.
    Bigger/newer krones give trouble, pottinger would be my choice if going for a newer version.
    Length of draw dictates the size of wagon you need.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭ 9935452


    eric prydz wrote: »
    Thinking this past while about moveing away from precision chop and buying myself a new or nearly new silage wagon,i have the mower,rake etc,what would ye recommend?

    Strautman. Lad i work for has a strautman supervitesse and a pottinger europrofi. strautman all the way. The pottinger is expensive to keep going and isnt as well built as the strautman. strautman is smaller but weighs a ton more
    Strautman chops better , is easier to drive, two wagons in the same field with identical tractors, strautman was picking a gear higher .


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,817 ✭✭✭ Bullocks


    td5man wrote: »
    3500 turbo I think it is. Krone turbos are fairly simple/trouble free.
    Bigger/newer krones give trouble, pottinger would be my choice if going for a newer version.
    Length of draw dictates the size of wagon you need.

    Thanks td5 you are right , I am mixing up the model no. with the money !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭ frazzledhome


    9935452 wrote: »
    Strautman. Lad i work for has a strautman supervitesse and a pottinger europrofi. strautman all the way. The pottinger is expensive to keep going and isnt as well built as the strautman. strautman is smaller but weighs a ton more
    Strautman chops better , is easier to drive, two wagons in the same field with identical tractors, strautman was picking a gear higher .

    We mow tedd and pit ourselves with contractor supplying rake and wagon.
    He used to have a Strautman Giga Vitesse, not worth a shyte as it only bends grass. Really quick to pick up and clear a field.
    Smaller Strautman does a great job. I do the clamping and dread the big machine.
    Other contractor we use has a Lely really fantastic machine. It's huge and clears ground aswell as a lovely chop making clamping much easier.

    If I were you I'd leave the wagon to someone else and do the rest yourself


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭ stanflt


    We mow tedd and pit ourselves with contractor supplying rake and wagon.
    He used to have a Strautman Giga Vitesse, not worth a shyte as it only bends grass. Really quick to pick up and clear a field.
    Smaller Strautman does a great job. I do the clamping and dread the big machine.
    Other contractor we use has a Lely really fantastic machine. It's huge and clears ground aswell as a lovely chop making clamping much easier.

    If I were you I'd leave the wagon to someone else and do the rest yourself


    A big plus one on this

    It's grand to have your own mower and Tedder but leave the wagon to a contractor


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭ 9935452


    We mow tedd and pit ourselves with contractor supplying rake and wagon.
    He used to have a Strautman Giga Vitesse, not worth a shyte as it only bends grass. Really quick to pick up and clear a field.
    Smaller Strautman does a great job. I do the clamping and dread the big machine.
    Other contractor we use has a Lely really fantastic machine. It's huge and clears ground aswell as a lovely chop making clamping much easier.

    If I were you I'd leave the wagon to someone else and do the rest yourself

    Our strautman has a great chop. Pottinger with a full set of sharp knives cant match it .
    If it only bends the grass the blades need sharpening or replacing or he only has half the blades fitted . worth checking at dinner time.
    All it takes is a couple of blades in the middle to be missing.
    i know a contractor in cork who runs 3 strautman giga vitesse and is serious about chopping grass. When they pull in for dinner they would have a man changing/ sharpening blades/knives. Their reasoning is they are in competition with self propelled harvesters and need a good chop. Their knives are like razor blades


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,278 ✭✭✭ frazzledhome


    This is the dogs cahones


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,551 ✭✭✭ keep going


    stanflt wrote: »
    A big plus one on this

    It's grand to have your own mower and Tedder but leave the wagon to a contractor

    I would agree .I myself mow rake and buckrake and hire in wagon.after all you need to hire someone to help anywway and these wwgons like not only power but a bit weight in front of them and isnt better to have them driving their own gear and you are getting good efficentcy out of your own tractor..its nice to be able to mow at the right time and as said earlier the man on the pit is more important than with precision.hire it for one year and see how it goes


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 Milked out


    Would a sp with some knives removed give any result similar to a wagon


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭ 9935452


    Milked out wrote: »
    Would a sp with some knives removed give any result similar to a wagon

    Hard to say really . The chop varies so much on a wagon.
    Some lads on self propelled do remove half the knives trying to get a longer chop


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭ onyerbikepat


    9935452 wrote: »
    .... When they pull in for dinner they would have a man changing/ sharpening blades/knives. Their reasoning is they are in competition with self propelled harvesters and need a good chop. Their knives are like razor blades
    They will also use less diesel with sharper blades.


  • Registered Users Posts: 936 ✭✭✭ st1979


    strautmann super vitesse here. Very simple machine and easy enough to get parts iam have all in stock. pottinger parts are way dearer. used a new krone this year very nice machine maybe little more power required than strautmann. Had contractor pick up with giga was massive performance


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,660 ✭✭✭ 9935452


    They will also use less diesel with sharper blades.

    I dont think diesel is a factor here. The boys were adamant they were in direct competition with self propelled.
    I do think another factor is they need to give the man on the pit some chance . We run 2 wagons and on a short draw in a tight yard the man on the pit would be under pressure.
    Could you imagine 3 giga vitesses arriving at the yard together, Roughly 3 acres of silage. At least with trailers they are staggered


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  • Registered Users Posts: 157 ✭✭ eric prydz


    visatorro wrote: »
    I think I change my mind on this every time I go to the pit!! as mahoney said it takes up more space in the pit, I find anyway. I find the loader cant compact the the last few loads because he's kinda bulling them in to fit in the pit, iykwim. im only talkin about my own place here.

    OP how long will it take to bring in your silage? id wouldn't take on to do it myself , a self propelled will horse in silage fairly quick, with a good lad on the pit and maybe a second tractor tramping at the same time youll still make good stuff. and youll have a few extra lads to throw up tyres

    defo get contractor with wagon to do silage once anyway before buying one.

    just an add on a local contractor bought a self propelled off a farmer in the north. he used to do all wagon silage then pick up a few acres with sp and scatter is on top of the pit. reckons it sealed it better,,,,

    Well id be planning to cut around 50acres a time/pit so il be able to mow it all down I should be able to pick it up the next day with a reasonable wagon, as it all around the pit with no long draws. I don't like the idea of hireing in anyone


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