Women's Rights in Islam - UPDATED WITH MOD INSTRUCTION IN FIRST POST

While I accept that this is an emotive topic for most, no thread in the history of this forum that I have ever seen has generated to many reported posts. With that in mind, and in an effort to keep discussion flowing, I feel I must introduce some ground rules for this thread. Some standard, some rather unorthodox.

• Keep the discussion to an adult level. No "LOLS", "ROFLS" smilie faces or lots of exclamation marks. I hear they are relaunching Bebo where this kind of discussion is more suited.
• I ask that you no longer quote from disreputable sources. All sources must have a reference and if they are deemed invalid/extreme/utterly biased, they will be deleted
• No more copy-paste of more than 10 lines. It's just too painful to read.
• In what is one of the most bizarre moves I have had to ever impose on a forum, from this point onwards there is to be no more discussion of menstruation. Yes, you read me correctly. It is irrelevant, off-topic and one or two posters appear to be obsessed with it
• Back seat modding - do I really need to tell you not to correct other posters? If you have an issue, report it.

I had a look at the very long and protracted "discussion" that took place in the thread entitled "Very young girls wearing the hijab" a few days back and had intended to weigh in, but unfortunately the thread's been closed (although I do agree with Tom that it wasn't going anywhere). I had already started on a response, so I figured I'd start a new thread to share my views and perspective, because although I agree with much of what Defender of Faith had said, I didn't agree with some of his personal explanations and felt it needed a western Muslim's input. I hope that's ok with you Tom?

The main issues raised by katydid to support her argument that Islam is misogynistic were:
1) Women have a stricter dress code than men
2) Women are not permitted to be Imams and lead men in congregations
3) Women are not permitted to pray next to men and often have to pray in a separate section of a mosque away from the main area
4) A woman's testimony in the case of a debt transaction needs a backup, whereas a man's doesn't in the same circumstance
5) Men are allowed to have four wives, but women only one husband

I'll start by quoting what she had said earlier in the thread - "Treating people differently is not the same as treating one gender as inferior." It's important to look at all the issues of how the genders are treated in Islam (and the rationale behind them) before forming conclusions. For example, if the shoe was on the other foot and I was a 'masculinist' making the case the Islam is 'misandrous' (for the record, I'm not, but bear with me), I could cite some of the following examples:

- "And give to the women their Dower with a good heart" (Quran 4:4) (Dower is obligatory bridal-money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage). This could be viewed as a discrimination against men, and a gross inequality.
- "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women" (Quran 4:34)... Err, again, why? Big deal if we're a bit stronger and taller on average, but women are well able to fend for themselves, so why are men singled out to be the maintainers of women? Women are entitled to their husband's wealth, but men have no rights over their wives' wealth, even if they earn less. More discrimination and burdens for men to bear.
- This isn't just confined to marriage: If a marriage ends in divorce, women get certain guarantees during the waiting period, and even beyond for a woman's support, and are also entitled to child support if they have children. This, again, irrespective of whether she may be wealthier than him to start off with.
- Women get more leeway in matters of daily obligatory prayers. From the time a boy hits puberty, it's a sin for him to miss a single prayer for the rest of his life (assuming he remains of sound mind) - even on his death bed, whereas women get a free pass every month during their periods and have no repercussions for missing the 5 daily prayers during those days. There's also a greater onus on men to attend their local mosque for prayers (and all the effort that's entailed with that), whereas women can cash the same reward with much less effort by praying at home. More inequalities.

They're just a few things I can think of - I'm sure I could come up with more if I looked into it further, but that's enough to start off my point, because much in the same vain katydid mentioned "the FACT is that Islam contains these examples of discrimination against women and, if you claim that the Qur'an is the word of God and can't be changed in any way, Islam discriminates against women. It doesn't matter if there are a thousand quotes that say they are equal, if there is even ONE quote that shows discrimination, there is discrimination", I could easily replace 'women' with 'men' to make the opposite claim. So you really can't focus just on the few issues that support your claim, whilst ignoring other issues that do the opposite and not taking them into account before you come to your overall conclusion.

Delving specifically into the points above. First thing I'll say is that women do not have "full rights" (if we choose to define "full rights" as was the other gender get), and I'll add to that that men also do not have "full rights" (going by the same definition). Men and women are alike in many ways and different in many ways. Islam acknowledges as much and assigns each different roles and rights to each.

1) Women having a stricter dress code. Firstly, any physical extra-marital relationships are strictly forbidden in Islam, and many Islamic rules are in place to minimise the chances of such relationships happening. An often quoted saying is "anything that leads to Haram, is itself Haram" (Haram = forbidden). Hijab is part of this - the more both men and women cover up, the less likely they'll be to be attracted to one another. Why women more so? Two reasons - firstly, the effect women have on men outweighs the effect men have on women (a little hormone called testosterone has a thing or two to do with it). Yes women may find a man's chest attractive, but the effect a woman's breasts has on men is far far greater - there's a reason why we have page 3 girls and not page 3 boys. Secondly, it has to with a woman's own safety. Men are stronger than women, and it's a very very sad thing that countless rapes happen right across the world on a daily basis. I'm not saying Hijab gives a woman 100% protection and I'm not saying that any woman who doesn't wear one will be attacked (most will be fine if they are otherwise sensible), but wearing Hijab will reduce the risk of attracting a predator.

2) Why are women not permitted to lead men in prayers. Islam places no restriction on women to teach, preach and guide both women and men. "Men and women are supporters of each other. They command what is right and forbid what is wrong (Al-Tawbah 9:71)" There are many women today who are fully qualified to be jurists (faqihah) and give religious opinions (fatwa's). They teach Qur'an and Hadith in schools, colleges and universities all over the world. However, the specific issue of a woman leading a prayer congregation of men and women is something which was never done at the time of prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), and as Muslims we try to stick with the traditions and ways of our prophet (peace be upon him). In part, it's a means to keep men and woman separate, but it's also a means to protect a woman's modesty - because it's not considered appropriate/decent for a woman to be bent over prostrating on the ground - where men could be potentially looking at her from behind.

3) Women are not permitted to pray next to men and often have to pray in a separate section of a mosque away from the main area. From the "anything that leads to Haram" point above, unnecessary contact between males and females (who aren't close relatives) is disliked in Islam, and this is why gender segregation is encouraged - be it in a mosque, at a wedding, at work etc. Men attend mosques in greater numbers (due to the discrimination men suffer, as highlighted above), and therefore they occupy the main prayer areas, and also leading on from the last sentence of the above point, the lines of men should be in the front area, then the lines of children and women. Katydid did mention in one of her posts that millions and men and women work together side by side without any problems, but it's also a fact that thousands (if not millions) of men and women around the world have extra-marital affairs, and often with co-workers. The more time men and women spend in each other's company, the more likely attractions are to form and affairs to happen. Again, I'm not saying it always happens, but it certainly does contribute, and that's why gender segregation, wherever possible, is encouraged in Islam.

4) A woman's testimony in the case of a financial transaction needs a backup, whereas a man's doesn't in the same circumstance. From what I can gather, the reason for this at the time the verse was revealed was because women didn't deal as much with financial affairs, and a backup was needed more so because of their inexperience. The Islamic jurisprudent Ibn Taimeya clarified that the verse was discussing the condition of transaction not the legal testimony before a judge. He added that a woman’s forgetfulness and hence her need for another woman to confirm her testimony in situations of deals is not a nature in all woman, but it rather has to do with experience and practice (in financial affairs), so if a woman has experience in financial matters and was known to have piety then her testimony alone is accepted. Allah (subhana wa'tala) knows best. Furthermore, another verse relating to women's testimony in court shows that a woman's testimony is at least equal to (if not greater than) her husband's if she is accused of adultery:

"And as for those who accuse their wives but have no witnesses except themselves, let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies (i.e. testifies four times) by Allah that he be one of those who speak the truth. And the fifth (testimony) (should be) invoking the Curse of Allah on him if he be one of those who tell a lie (against her). But it shall avert the punishment from her, if she bears witness four times by Allah, that he (her husband) is telling a lie. And the fifth (testimony) should be that the Wrath of Allah be upon her if (her husband) speaks the truth". (Quran 24:6-9)

5) Men are allowed to have four wives, but women only one husband. There are many practical reasons for this. Children for starters. If and when the woman becomes pregnant, issues of paternity crop up, and which one exactly is the father. If a woman has four husbands, even if you could do DNA paternity testing, the very fact that she's one woman, who can only go through one pregnancy at a time, followed by nursing a newborn and recovering before she could have another, one of the husbands could potentially have to wait 6-8 years (and quite possibly longer depending on how things work out - will all the men just be happy to wait their turn for a child? will the woman want a break at some point?) before having a child of his own. Then if and when the woman does get pregnant, is it ok for her to be having intercourse with one man whilst carrying the baby of another? (I'm not fan of polygamy, I'll add - and whilst people will say it's wrong for a man to be having intercourse with a second wife while number one is expecting, the previous scenario is probably still wronger). Furthermore, I think it's pretty tough on a woman to undergo pregnancy and subsequent nursing whilst trying to satify four husbands at the same time. And finally, as tough as it must be for women to live as co-wives, men by their very nature are competitive, testosterone-driven and prone to head-locking over females, so I'd imagine there would be more likelihood of trouble - esp. as they'll be competing to produce off-spring.

All in all, I think Islam treats women quite well. My own wife says that "we have it easy". Yes they are given some different roles, responsibilities and rights to men, but they are still given plenty of opportunities to pursue jobs/careers etc, they are kept protected, they are cared for, they have rights that men don't, they are even pampered I'd say, and men are explicitly told to live with them in kindness.

“... consort with them in kindness, for if ye hate them it may happen that ye hate a thing wherein Allah hath placed much good” (Quran 4:19)