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Women's Rights in Islam - UPDATED WITH MOD INSTRUCTION IN FIRST POST

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  • I dont think there are many Muslim women in Board or at least some that are active on this forum however I will direct you to a massage made by a number of western Muslim women discussing the Niqab and not even the Hijab from their perspective.


    I am not interested in what brainwashed women think of being captives.




  • katydid wrote: »
    I am not interested in what brainwashed women think of being captives.

    They look scary :( LOL seriously though




  • looksee wrote: »
    I have read your posts, including the bolded bits, and I cannot see that we are getting anywhere. To discuss your points to your satisfaction, I would have to accept the basic premises that you have repeated and repeated, but which I do not accept.

    I am never going to agree that it is a woman's responsibility to cover herself to save men from their passions.

    I am never going to agree that it is appropriate for a man to be as paternalistic/patronising to women as posters here seem to think is natural.

    I would be interested to know why there are not Muslim women contributing to this thread and expressing their views. The only time I have seen women admitting to being Muslim on Boards was in Personal Issues, where they were warning an Irish woman who was wondering about marrying a Muslim of the restrictive nature of marriage in those circumstances.

    That's fine - I don't expect people to agree with my opinions, but I'd rather people hear our side of the story before forming their conclusions. There's a lot of inaccurate/stereotypical stuff out there and most people don't take the time to thoroughly look into these matters, so thanks for reading.

    Regarding why Muslim women haven't contributed to this thread, well there are about 2 active Muslim users in this forum at any given time (if you're lucky), and whilst we do get the occasional female input - we just don't have the numbers.




  • katydid wrote: »
    I am not interested in what brainwashed women think of being captives.

    Funny enough I think the only person brainwashed her is yourself and no disrespected intended. You have been made to assume that a Hijab is a sign of oppression rather then modesty and when presented with examples of Muslim women who are living in the west meaning!!! that no one is forcing them to wear it! you claim that they are brainwashed without even listening to them.




  • Funny enough I think the only person brainwashed her is yourself and no disrespected intended. You have been made to assume that a Hijab is a sign of oppression rather then modesty and when presented with examples of Muslim women who are living in the west meaning!!! that no one is forcing them to wear it! you claim that they are brainwashed without even listening to them.

    We should also remember that millions of muslim women don't wear the head covering too. :)


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  • They look scary :( LOL seriously though

    No, you're right. There's something weird and unnatural about them. I suppose it is one way to turn men off...




  • HAHAHA loook!!!!! I just talked about the Corinthians verses and how muslims misinterpret them. See my post above. They were directed at Corinthian society!!!
    Read my post again I removed it to avoid this argument but apparently you have read it beforehand.

    While true it was directed at Corinthian society it's not restricted to them.That's according to my knowledge and the sources I used if am wrong feel free to educate me.

    "The veil or covering on the head of a believing Corinthian wife showed that she was under the authority of her husband, and therefore under submission to God..... In today's culture, we no longer view a woman's wearing of a head covering as a sign of submission. In most modern societies, scarves and hats are fashion accessories. A woman has the choice to wear a head covering if she views it as a sign of her submission to the authority of her husband. However, it is a personal choice and not something that should be used to judge spirituality"

    Source: http://www.gotquestions.org/head-coverings.html




  • Funny enough I think the only person brainwashed her is yourself and no disrespected intended. You have been made to assume that a Hijab is a sign of oppression rather then modesty and when presented with examples of Muslim women who are living in the west meaning!!! that no one is forcing them to wear it! you claim that they are brainwashed without even listening to them.

    Hijab IS a sign of oppression since the premise of wearing it is to stop men from being turned on and turning into sex manics. It puts the onus on women to cover up so men don't have to make an effort to exercise self-control. Other women don't need to cover themselves up when interacting with men, because the basis of their relationship with men is mutual respect.

    There are many people who do things that debase and oppress them; it's some kind of masochistic gene, I suppose.

    You may not intend to be disrespectful when calling me brainwashed, but you are being disrespectful, in the same way as you disrespect me by calling me "sister". You are not treating me as an equal, when you try to convince me that I don't understand why women would choose to give in to the weakness of men instead of standing up to them.




  • katydid wrote: »
    I am not interested in what brainwashed women think of being captives.

    Unbelievable. You will consider rights and choices that Muslim women have (and men don't) as discrimination and misogyny, you will strip them of their choices against their will and consider it their "liberation" and when educated Muslim women living in the west stand up to explain their perspectives, you'll very easily dismiss them as being brainwashed.

    It's pointless in me carrying on any further. I have made all the points I wanted to make in starting this thread. Each to their own opinions.




  • Unbelievable. You will consider rights and choices that Muslim women have (and men don't) as discrimination and misogyny, you will strip them of their choices against their will and consider it their "liberation" and when educated Muslim women living in the west stand up to explain their perspectives, you'll very easily dismiss them as being brainwashed.

    It's pointless in me carrying on any further. I have made all the points I wanted to make in starting this thread. Each to their own opinions.

    But of course they are brainwashed. Women who are brought up as equals to men, who turn around and decide to submit to men and cover themselves so that men don't have the effort to show them respect are brainwashed, and not capable of explaining their own oppression.

    It is indeed pointless for you to continue because you have failed to understand that women are not weak creatures who need protection or that men are not weak creatures who are incapable of self-control. If what you portray is Islam, it doesn't have a very high opinion of either men or women...


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  • Burqa Causes Vitamin Deficiency in Ireland...
    MUSLIM women who wear the burqa in Ireland are at increased risk of pelvic fractures during childbirth because of vitamin D deficiency due to a lack of sunlight, a consultant warns.

    Babies born to women with vitamin D deficiency are also more prone to seizures in their first week of life, according to Dr Miriam Casey, of the Osteoporosis Unit in St James’s hospital in Dublin.

    A burqa is an enveloping outer garment worn by some Muslim women. In hot countries, enough sunlight gets through to give them sufficient vitamin D, but this may not happen in countries where there is limited sunshine, such as Ireland and Britain.

    Casey said she was aware of cases involving pelvic fractures, and warned that these could become more frequent as Ireland’s Muslim population increased. “Ireland’s temperate climate doesn’t have the intense sunlight that keeps burqa-clad women from becoming vitamin D-deficient in their own countries,” she said.
    Vitamin D helps the body to absorb calcium and is crucial for making bones strong. The greatest source is sunlight.

    Casey said the fractures occur at sites of particular weakness which develop in under-mineralised pelvic bones. In these women's babies, low calcium can cause “serious complications such as seizures, growth retardation, muscle weakness and fractures”.
    “As a toddler, carrying the weight of the torso can force the development of a bow-legged appearance and a waddling gait,” she said. “Later, there can be rickets, which is caused by vitamin D deficiency, with swollen wrists and bones that fail to fuse in adolescence.”

    Darker skins can produce as little as 1% of the vitamin D that fair skins produce. Moreover, studies have found that the rate of many diseases rises the further north one moves, leading researchers to suspect that vitamin D may play a greater role in health than previously thought.
    Casey said: “As we see a rise in the number of Muslims in Ireland, it’s going to become a massive problem. It’s worse in England whose Muslim community is older. There are already problems in the Rotunda [a maternity hospital in Dublin] and the paediatric hospitals.”
    A spokeswoman for the Islamic community in Ireland said she was unaware of health problems suffered by women wearing burqas.

    Last year, Muslim women in the UK were warned that wearing the hijab could cause poor health for them and their babies. A UK government spokesman said: “We are not interfering in a Muslim woman’s right to wear the hijab, but we are stressing that we all need sunlight on our skins.”





  • Last year, Muslim women in the UK were warned that wearing the hijab could cause poor health for them and their babies. A UK government spokesman said: “We are not interfering in a Muslim woman’s right to wear the hijab, but we are stressing that we all need sunlight on our skins.”

    If they don't care about their own health, they should think of their children.




  • katydid wrote: »
    I am not interested in what brainwashed women think of being captives.

    Do you really think so little of Muslim women?
    What about women of different faiths who dress according to their religious teachings. Women like nuns, mormons, Amish and jewish women?

    Are they all brainwashed.

    Conversely, are women who dress in modern, less conservative clothes brainwashed by, lets say the fashion industry>





  • Last year, Muslim women in the UK were warned that wearing the hijab could cause poor health for them and their babies. A UK government spokesman said: “We are not interfering in a Muslim woman’s right to wear the hijab, but we are stressing that we all need sunlight on our skins.”

    Sufficient natural light enters through the glazing.

    Muslim women do not wear the hijab indoors or in their gardens or courtyards.




  • Sufficient natural light enters through the glazing.

    Muslim women do not wear the hijab indoors or in their gardens or courtyards.

    Sufficient natural light through glazing? How long have you lived in Ireland?




  • Do you really think so little of Muslim women?
    What about women of different faiths who dress according to their religious teachings. Women like nuns, mormons, Amish and jewish women?

    Are they all brainwashed.

    Conversely, are women who dress in modern, less conservative clothes brainwashed by, lets say the fashion industry>

    Have you seen nuns these days? Mormons were the same clothes as everyone else, they just wear weird underwear, Amish women just wear a small headscarf, and Orthodox Jewish women, bizarrely, wear wigs over their own hair. None of them swathe themselves from head to foot in a cloth covering.

    Some of those who wear fashionable clothes are indeed brain washed, but most women dress for themselves, not for men or for other women, and certainly not to pander to men's weaknesses.




  • Sufficient natural light enters through the glazing.

    Muslim women do not wear the hijab indoors or in their gardens or courtyards.

    HAHA it would want to be some glazing in this country for that haha :) I think we are going to get snow soooooooon burrrrrrrrrrrr lol




  • katydid wrote: »
    Have you seen nuns these days? Mormons were the same clothes as everyone else, they just wear weird underwear, Amish women just wear a small headscarf, and Orthodox Jewish women, bizarrely, wear wigs over their own hair. None of them swathe themselves from head to foot in a cloth covering.
    You haven't answered the question, are those people brainwashed to wear the item of clothing you listed? & not seeing Nuns these days doesnt exactly answer the question as to why they dress that way.
    katydid wrote: »
    but most women dress for themselves, not for men or for other women, and certainly not to pander to men's weaknesses.
    A Muslim women wears the Hijab because first and foremost GOD ordered her to do so, I dont think you realized this yet.

    "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof.." Qur'an 24:31

    katydid wrote: »
    Sufficient natural light through glazing? How long have you lived in Ireland?

    He mentioned how Muslim women do not wear the hijab indoors or in their gardens or courtyards, also encase you are unaware Vitamin D can be supplemented easily.




  • You haven't answered the question, are those people brainwashed to wear the item of clothing you listed? & not seeing Nuns these days doesnt exactly answer the question as to why they dress that way.


    A Muslim women wears the Hijab because first and foremost GOD ordered her to do so, I dont think you realized this yet.

    "And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof.." Qur'an 24:31




    He mentioned how Muslim women do not wear the Hijab in the garden or indoor also encase you are unaware Vitamin D can be supplemented easily.
    You obviously don't realise that nuns these days mostly dress in ordinary clothes...

    Nuns freely choose their careers, so they are certainly not brainwashed. As for Amish women and Orthodox women who wear wigs, brainwashed would certainly describe it.

    Can you cite where in the Qur'an where it says that women have to cover themselves from head to toe in a sheet? And how do you know it's God who told them?

    Yes, he mentioned indoors or the garden; I'm still waiting for his answer as to how long he's been living in Ireland. He clearly doesn't know the Irish climate very well...

    Sure, Vitamin D can be supplemented; so that's ok, women can just cover themselves up and take tablets. Perfect solution.




  • katydid wrote: »
    You obviously don't realise that nuns these days mostly dress in ordinary clothes...

    Nuns freely choose their careers, so they are certainly not brainwashed. As for Amish women and Orthodox women who wear wigs, brainwashed would certainly describe it.
    So I take it according to you, that any person who disregard his freedom and chooses to follow what God has ordered him to do is brainwashed?
    katydid wrote: »
    Can you cite where in the Qur'an where it says that women have to cover themselves from head to toe in a sheet?

    And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof (face and palms) ; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.
    katydid wrote: »
    And how do you know it's God who told them?
    Because the Verse is in the Qur'an and we believe that it's the word of God.
    katydid wrote: »
    Sure, Vitamin D can be supplemented; so that's ok, women can just cover themselves up and take tablets. Perfect solution.
    Muslim women do not wear the Hijab in the garden or indoor.


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  • So I take it according to you, that any person who disregard his freedom and chooses to follow what God has ordered him to do is brainwashed?


    And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof (face and palms) ; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers or their brothers' sons, or their sisters' sons, or their women, or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex; and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O ye Believers! turn ye all together towards Allah, that ye may attain Bliss.


    Because the Verse is in the Qur'an and we believe that it's the word of God.


    Muslim women do not wear the Hijab in the garden or indoor.
    Someone who misreads an exhortation about modesty to mean covering your hair with a wig or wearing old fashioned clothes IS, in my opinion, brainwashed.

    Veils? Slaves? This is 2014.




  • katydid wrote: »
    Someone who misreads an exhortation about modesty to mean covering your hair with a wig or wearing old fashioned clothes IS, in my opinion, brainwashed.

    Veils? Slaves? This is 2014.

    I think tbh that you are overly focussed on the more extreme interpretations of Islam tbh.

    My doctor is a Muslim (from Lebanon which appears to be of a less extreme type of Islam) She is extremely highly educated, runs her own business, has her family, dresses quite fashionably and wears a headscarf if she is expecting to have her female patients bring in their partners.

    She and I over the years have discussed the more extreme interpretations of Islam that are out there and she has little time for them, but is very happy to be a Muslim, often I'll mention Ramadan etc if I see her when it's on.




  • And how did you arrive at the conclusion that someone misread something here?

    The design of the hijab.... where does it originate from? is it arabian? like what civilisation? just wondering. :D




  • Stheno wrote: »
    I think tbh that you are overly focussed on the more extreme interpretations of Islam tbh.

    My doctor is a Muslim (from Lebanon which appears to be of a less extreme type of Islam) She is extremely highly educated, runs her own business, has her family, dresses quite fashionably and wears a headscarf if she is expecting to have her female patients bring in their partners.

    She and I over the years have discussed the more extreme interpretations of Islam that are out there and she has little time for them, but is very happy to be a Muslim, often I'll mention Ramadan etc if I see her when it's on.
    Your Doctor is a briliant example of what a normal Muslim women, that follows the actual teaching of Islam is like.

    She is not less extreme or more extreme she's simply a Muslim.




  • Stheno wrote: »
    I think tbh that you are overly focussed on the more extreme interpretations of Islam tbh.

    My doctor is a Muslim (from Lebanon which appears to be of a less extreme type of Islam) She is extremely highly educated, runs her own business, has her family, dresses quite fashionably and wears a headscarf if she is expecting to have her female patients bring in their partners.

    She and I over the years have discussed the more extreme interpretations of Islam that are out there and she has little time for them, but is very happy to be a Muslim, often I'll mention Ramadan etc if I see her when it's on.
    Oh, I know many Muslims who don't take such extreme accounts. My neighbour is a Muslim doctor, and I've never seen her wearing any kind of hijab. And when I taught in the UK there were many Muslim girls who wore the same clothes as everyone else.

    My point is that just like Christianity, there are varied interpretations of Islam. Most Christians accept that the Bible has to be contextualised, and that we don't have to take everything literally. Muslims will admit that there are different interpretations, but insist that since the Qur'an is the direct word of God, it is not open to interpretation. Which is illogical. I just want to get them to admit that they DO interpret...




  • katydid wrote: »

    My point is that just like Christianity, there are varied interpretations of Islam. Most Christians accept that the Bible has to be contextualised, and that we don't have to take everything literally. Muslims will admit that there are different interpretations, but insist that since the Qur'an is the direct word of God, it is not open to interpretation. Which is illogical. I just want to get them to admit that they DO interpret...

    I would imagine each different "branch" of Islam so to speak would have their own interpretation with the Wahhabi (Sp) and Sharia variant being the most harsh, and others being less so.

    You can hardly have all of the differerent branches of Islam in agreement otherwise they would not exist. It's like regular Jews and Hasidics, same basic Torah but very different teaching




  • Stheno wrote: »
    I would imagine each different "branch" of Islam so to speak would have their own interpretation with the Wahhabi (Sp) and Sharia variant being the most harsh, and others being less so.

    You can hardly have all of the differerent branches of Islam in agreement otherwise they would not exist. It's like regular Jews and Hasidics, same basic Torah but very different teaching

    Not in agreement, but acknowledging that they are interpreting the scripture in their own way.




  • The design of the hijab.... where does it originate from? is it arabian? like what civilisation? just wondering. :D
    What design are you talking about? since the design did vary significantly through the Islamic history, however I dont think there's a specific design as long as it comply with the ruling of the Hijab.




  • What design are you talking about? since the design did vary significantly through the Islamic history, however I dont think there's a specific design as long as it comply with the ruling of the Hijab.

    Ahaaaa ok, i was just wondering about the origin of its design, what people it comes from and do you know if the colours mean anything? some are very colourful and others just dark black?


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  • Ahaaaa ok, i was just wondering about the origin of its design, what people it comes from and do you know if the colours mean anything? some are very colourful and others just dark black?

    As far as I know, "hijab" is the generic name for a covering. A headscarf is hijab and a burqa is hijab. I am open to correction


    The burqa originated in Afghanistan, but some very strict Muslim women have taken to wearing niqab, which is the black cloak with the eye slit, which is of Middle Eastern origin.

    And of course, in some parts of India, hijab is just a scarf draped loosely over the hair.

    As I said, I'm open to correction on this...


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