Chris Rock: "White people need to own the actions of their ancestors"

Sonderkommando · 25-12-2014 10:40AM

To hell or Barbados by Sean O'Callaghan is an excellent book detailing the forgotten story of Irish slavery. Also TG4 did a documentary called the redlegs on the ancestors of those slaves still living in Barbados, its a fascinating watch.

Carlos Orange · 25-12-2014 10:48AM

RWCNT wrote: »

In the instance you just described that would actually be considered racism under the definition I presented as there is systemstic oppression enforced. When I said "not sure if a black person can be racist to a white person" I meant in a society predominantly governed by white people, apologies for not making that clear.

Under that redefinition of what racism is nobody can be racist. Only races can be racist. Which strikes me as racist. In the old school real meaning.

suicide_circus · 25-12-2014 10:58AM

Dont know why I expected better from chris rock than to come out with such utter nonsense, clearly calculated to capitalised on recent racial tensions in the states. Idiot.

RWCNT · 25-12-2014 11:04AM

psinno wrote: »

Under that redefinition of what racism is nobody can be racist. Only races can be racist. Which strikes me as racist. In the old school real meaning.

Well yeah, totally. Under that definition the other non dominant races would be condidered bigoted or prejudiced rather than racist. I dont think it makes much of a difference personally what you call it, its all equally evil

Streetwalker · 25-12-2014 11:07AM

There is a minority of blacks in America who are as racist as anything the white power movement have drummed up. They seem to think its okay to be racist because they are black. I speak as a person who lived in the US for many years so am speaking from experience.

Shabra · 25-12-2014 11:08AM

Racism is discrimination based on race. Not a fan of the term "race" being used as humans are one race, but there you go.

keithclancy · 25-12-2014 11:27AM

Load of ****e, if that's the case then why don't Americans own the mistakes of their ancestors and give the land back to the native Americans who were there before them.

Generational guilt is a load of bollocks.

Tony EH · 25-12-2014 11:35AM

RWCNT wrote: »

When I said "not sure if a black person can be racist to a white person" I meant in a society predominantly governed by white people, apologies for not making that clear.

You're still wrong.

If a person makes statements or actions against me, because of my race, they are indulging in racism.

It really is that simple and it matters not whether the person doing it is black, white, yellow, blue or green.

Racism is not a one way street, no matter who it is that governs.

RWCNT · 25-12-2014 11:43AM

Tony EH wrote: »

You're still wrong.

If a person makes statements or actions against me, because of my race, they are indulging in racism.

It really is that simple and it matters not whether the person doing it is black, white, yellow, blue or green.

Racism is not a one way street, no matter who it is that governs.

Thats one school of thought and I respect your opinion.

UCDVet · 25-12-2014 12:56PM

RWCNT wrote: »

Thats one school of thought and I respect your opinion.

It's not an OPINION. Words have meaning. Effective communication requires use to all use the same definitions. That's why we have dictionaries.

Racism
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

AngeGal · 25-12-2014 01:22PM

Seems like pretty much nobody commenting here bothered reading the interview. He talks about how it's not black progress that Obama is president but white progress because there have always been black people qualified to be president. Then references how much progress has been made in race relations. Then is asked "It's about white people adjusting to a new reality?"

He says "Owning their actions. Not even their actions. The actions of your dad. Yeah, it’s unfair that you can get judged by something you didn’t do, but it’s also unfair that you can inherit money that you didn’t work for."

He's clearly not suggesting white people today should feel guilty about the slave trade but rather recognise the racism which existed far more commonly in America until recent times. He never mentions ancestors, only familial reference is to 'your dad', he's talking about how each generation needs to improve. Also this was an interview between two Americans for an american magazine so I highly doubt he was thinking of White Europeans at all.

Link in OP is sensationalist nonsense removing context and twisting words.

Son Of A Vidic · 25-12-2014 01:25PM

Overheal wrote: »

White people need to own the actions of their ancestors

Chris the idiot, needs to go learn some history and educate himself about Irish slaves - the forgotten white slaves.

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70 percent of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.”

“During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, [Oliver] Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.”

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/irish-the-forgotten-white-slaves-says-expert-john-martin-188645531-237793261.html

AngeGal · 25-12-2014 01:27PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Chris the idiot, needs to go learn some history and educate himself about Irish slaves - the forgotten white slaves.

Perhaps, like most posters on here, you should read his remarks in context in the full interview rather than the slanted viewpoint offered in the initial link before you call him an idiot.

Highflyer13 · 25-12-2014 01:29PM

American media is stirring up a lot of s**t lately. Every race is generalised, blacks, whites, latinos, Asians etc and in particular pitching of blacks against whites lately.

RWCNT · 25-12-2014 01:29PM

UCDVet wrote: »

It's not an OPINION. Words have meaning. Effective communication requires use to all use the same definitions. That's why we have dictionaries.

Some would argue a definition in a dictionary written years ago by the dominants in a society is an inappropriate point of reference in discussions like this. Whomever put pen to paper on your definition was almost certainly not a marginalized person themselves and as such I can absolutely understand why the oppressed would be unwilling to accept a definition passed down by a person of privilege when they have faced the prejudice themselves every day of their lives. I havnt made this up myself on a whim, its a point of view held by many and I think its interesting to think about with an open mind. It makes no practical difference if you are against discrimination in all forms but I am interested in why this theory is so upsetting to many. I generally refer to the sort of thing Im on about as institutionalised racism anyway but Ive found some of the arguments Ive read quite a bit more compelling than than your google definition.

AngeGal · 25-12-2014 01:34PM

Btw OP Rock never said the quote you attribute to him in the thread title.

Saipanne · 25-12-2014 01:34PM

Jamiekelly wrote: »

Hasn't Chris Rock been basing his entire comedy routine for the past 15 years on colour?

I know. I don't see why he is so popular.

CR: "Do you remember when everybody had Jerry Curls?"

No Chris. No I don't. That's why I'm not laughing.

Son Of A Vidic · 25-12-2014 02:03PM

AngeGal wrote: »

Perhaps, like most posters on here, you should read his remarks in context in the full interview rather than the slanted viewpoint offered in the initial link before you call him an idiot.

It looks like you were foolish enough to make the completely stupid assertion that I did not read the article. Now while is is Christmas Day, I certainly am not going to engage in a hand holding exercise for you, so I'll make this brief. My previous post was primarily directed at these comments by Rock....

"White people were crazy."

“Owning their actions. Not even their actions. The actions of your dad. Yeah, it’s unfair that you can get judged by something you didn’t do, but it’s also unfair that you can inherit money that you didn’t work for.”

http://www.inquisitr.com/1647511/chris-rock-on-white-people-they-must-own-the-actions-of-their-racist-ancestors/

No Chris you generalising fool, they certainly were not. Because around the time your ancestors were being the brutalised by the slave trade. Us Irish and our ancestors were amongst the first slaves in the Americas. So I, like most Irish, have certainly no baggage nor do we have anything to apologise for.

Ave Sodalis · 25-12-2014 02:03PM

RWCNT wrote: »

Some would argue a definition in a dictionary written years ago by the dominants in a society is an inappropriate point of reference in discussions like this.

Oxford dictionary gets reviewed four times a year

http://public.oed.com/the-oed-today/recent-updates-to-the-oed/

AngeGal · 25-12-2014 02:19PM

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

It looks like you were foolish enough to make the completely stupid assertion that I did not read the article. Now while is is Christmas Day, I certainly am not going to engage in a hand holding exercise for you, so I'll make this brief. My previous post was primarily directed at these comments by Rock....

http://www.inquisitr.com/1647511/chris-rock-on-white-people-they-must-own-the-actions-of-their-racist-ancestors/

No Chris you generalising fool, they certainly were not. Because around the time your ancestors were being the brutalised by the slave trade. Us Irish and our ancestors were amongst the first slaves in the Americas. So I, like most Irish, have certainly no baggage nor do we have anything to apologise for.

As I previously said, it's an interview between two Americans for an American magazine aimed at an American audience, specifically the readers of New York Magazine. If you read it and thought his comments were in reference to white people worldwide, well I don't really know what to say to that.

"White people were crazy" - American reference to when racism was legal, water fountains, etc. He referenced earlier in the interview how his mother had to go to a vet to get her teeth out. Seems fairly crazy.
"Owning their actions" - Saying that white Americans should recognise the racism which was commonplace until a few decades ago.

In the same interview he refers to how "my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced."

Again notice the reference to America, I don't know how an Irish person could take offence to anything in this interview.

PS. You obviously didn't read it close enough to correct Overheal's 'quote' from Chris Rock in your first post.

Wibbs · 25-12-2014 02:42PM

Diego Simeone wrote: »

Now it's slavery and rape that I'm apparently responsible for, what next?

Pretty much the entirety of modern living so I'd not sweat the small stuff.

Karl Stein · 25-12-2014 02:55PM

As has already been said there's a context. There's also the small matter that Chris Rock is a comedian not an African American intellectual.

Saipanne · 25-12-2014 02:58PM

sup_dude wrote: »

Oxford dictionary gets reviewed four times a year

http://public.oed.com/the-oed-today/recent-updates-to-the-oed/

Luckily there is no requirement for us to follow these books.

Shabra · 25-12-2014 03:03PM

RWCNT wrote: »

Thats one school of thought and I respect your opinion.

There is no "school of thought". Racism is discrimination based on race. Discriminating against a Caucasian because they are Caucasian is racist by definition.

Shabra · 25-12-2014 03:04PM

Saipanne wrote: »

Luckily there is no requirement for us to follow these books.

:rolleyes:

Joe prim · 25-12-2014 03:12PM

Never heard of him,is he anything to Dickie (or Barney)?

UCDVet · 25-12-2014 03:15PM

RWCNT wrote: »

Some would argue a definition in a dictionary written years ago by the dominants in a society is an inappropriate point of reference in discussions like this. Whomever put pen to paper on your definition was almost certainly not a marginalized person themselves and as such I can absolutely understand why the oppressed would be unwilling to accept a definition passed down by a person of privilege when they have faced the prejudice themselves every day of their lives. I havnt made this up myself on a whim, its a point of view held by many and I think its interesting to think about with an open mind. It makes no practical difference if you are against discrimination in all forms but I am interested in why this theory is so upsetting to many. I generally refer to the sort of thing Im on about as institutionalised racism anyway but Ive found some of the arguments Ive read quite a bit more compelling than than your google definition.

What makes you think the dictionary was written years ago?

Arguments are fine, justification is fine. Explanation is fine.

But arbitrarily redefining a word, then using it in a non-standard way, and then telling people they are wrong for correcting you....well, to be honest, that's what I'd call *trolling*. It's done solely to inflame and cause disagreements.

TheQuietFella · 25-12-2014 03:20PM

Shouldn't that include Lenny Henry also.
One of his GGG-grandfathers was a slave owner from the Bahamas!

RWCNT · 25-12-2014 03:22PM

sup_dude wrote: »

Oxford dictionary gets reviewed four times a year

http://public.oed.com/the-oed-today/recent-updates-to-the-oed/

I'm on my mobile ATM and Im quite new to smart phones so don't know how to copy and paste links but I read s really interesting article about the diversity within the OED staff. If I'm well enough to get out of bed to the laptop later I'll rocket you the link

Saipanne · 25-12-2014 03:26PM

Shabra wrote: »

:rolleyes:

You're just being affable now.

*now I wait for the Gardai to kick my door in*

Chris Rock: "White people need to own the actions of their ancestors"

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