Chris Rock: "White people need to own the actions of their ancestors"

Overheal

http://www.inquisitr.com/1647511/chris-rock-on-white-people-they-must-own-the-actions-of-their-racist-ancestors/

So I came across this because a family member made - colorful, vitriolic comments - in response to it, that they felt appropriate at 2 in the morning to post via facebook. Bourbon, most certainly. Either way I found their comments really vulgar and it bothered me a lot.

But it did get me thinking. Basically in Chris Rock's comments, he wants white people to take responsibility for the actions of their ancestors.

It's easy for Chris Rock and anyone else to see this distinction between white and black. Lets also throw east-asians, hispanics, and native americans into this mix. Because of strong genetic markers, some people can track ancestry better than others. But not so much caucasians, which make up vast swaths of Europe and North America. Anyway, it got me to think about who my ancestors were, and incidentally on my mothers side I'm a descendant of John Wesley of Methodist and Savannah Georgia fame, who was a known abolitionist. And on my father's side, our family lineage is french and french-canadian, and now predominately the name is found in new england and quebec. So in effect, my ancestors had not much ado about what Chris Rock is on about. Chris Rock who, ironically, has a comedy out in theatres with an almost all-black main cast (image). Pot calling the kettle - well, black?

His comments are stirring up plenty of controversy apparently though. The comments section in the link makes for interesting if not occasionally dumb reading. Half of it just boils down to "white people are crazy" and "black people are animals". Sigh.

viztopia

its a well know fact that the people sold into slavery were sold by black people in Africa. also slavery is still widespread in Africa while most other progressive countries have banned it long ago. really fed up with some of these people digging up the past and imo some black people are more racist but get away with it because they are black

Tin Foil Hat

Chris Rock can fukk off. I refuse to carry the white mans burden. It's out and out racist to expect me to take responsibility for the actions of total strangers with whom I share nothing but skin colour.

Micky Dolenz

We were the blacks of Europe etc etc.

Shabra

It seems quite arbitrary to take responsibility for the actions of those who died before you were even born. Ridiculous.

Molester Stallone II

Will Chris Rock also ask for black Africans to take responsibility for the 1 million plus European people sold into slavery in Africa in the 1500 to 1800's?

kippy

Comedian makes controversial, widely general statement about a touchy topic.
Standard stuff from some celebs trying to get more publicity for themselves. Usually works to be fair.

Jamiekelly

Hasn't Chris Rock been basing his entire comedy routine for the past 15 years on colour?

looksee

Shabra wrote: »

It seems quite arbitrary to take responsibility for the actions of those who died before you were even born. Ridiculous.

Unless you are talking about Brits and Ireland.

RWCNT

Not entirely sure its possible for a black person to be racist to a white person, discriminative/prejudiced maybe, but I think it needs to be part of an overall system of marginalization and oppression to be properly considered an "ism". I read this ages ago in an old housemate's uni book, I cant quite remember a lot of it but it was interesting to read. I cant imagine myself bringing thst point up in an argument anyway, prejudice is wrong whatever you want to call it.

Anyway, I cant say I feel any shame for anything my ancestors did and I have people in my immediate family who have gone to prison for violent crime. I do however feel we should be sensitive to other cultures who have been oppressed in the past, I cant stand how the bindhi from Hinduism has become a fashion statement, was in a curry house near my gaff a while ago and some yungwan was rocking one and getting mad evils off an Indian couple for example. Im no fan of religion but I have to say I empathised with them.

I think this thread is gonna be horrible, Id imagine boards userbase is predominantly white and Id say we'll probably get quite a one sided dialogue.

Tin Foil Hat

RWCNT wrote: »

Not entirely sure its possible for a black person to be racist to a white person,

That would make you an absolute dunce.

RWCNT

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

That would make you an absolute dunce.

Naw. Have a google and read a bit. Touchy wouchy.

whisky_galore

Why should I? Grand total of family members that were involved in the trans Atlantic slave trade = 0.

Now, if records showed my policeman granduncle happened to clobber black people around on the streets of Detroit in 1920-squat I'd hold my hands up, but otherwise fcuk right off.

RWCNT

whisky_galore wrote: »

Why should I? Grand total of family members that were involved in the trans Atlantic slave trade = 0.

Now, if records showed my policeman granduncle happened to clobber black people around on the streets of Detroit in 1920-squat I'd hold my hands up, but otherwise fcuk right off.

Not saying you should feel any shame, I certainly don't.

Yurt2

RWCNT wrote: »

Naw. Have a google and read a bit. Touchy wouchy.

He's right you know. Plenty of black people in the States hold what I'd consider 'quare' views on evreyone from Jews to Koreans and everyone else intbetween. Often they get a 'pass' from people like yourself because of white liberal guilt or something they misunderstood from a Sociology textbook. Just because they have had geniune historical grievances and are stuck in a cycle of poverty doesn't mean there isn't rabid racists in their community.

The US at the moment is a place where everyone seems to mistrust everyone else. Race relations are at their lowest point since the LA riots (an event that lest we forget, black mobs went to war on Asian immigrant communities, because... you know, Rodney King)

Shabra

whisky_galore wrote: »

Why should I? Grand total of family members that were involved in the trans Atlantic slave trade = 0.

Now, if records showed my policeman granduncle happened to clobber black people around on the streets of Detroit in 1920-squat I'd hold my hands up, but otherwise fcuk right off.

Why would you hold your hands up, you didn't do anything wrong?


It's arbitrary, if a plumber goes on a murderous rampage should all plumbers apologise?

RWCNT

Yurt! wrote: »

He's right you know. Plenty of black people in the States hold what I'd consider 'quare' views on evreyone from Jews to Koreans and everyone else intbetween. Often they get a 'pass' from people like yourself because of white liberal guilt or something they misunderstood from a Sociology textbook. Just because they have had geniune historical grievances and are stuck in a cycle of poverty doesn't mean there isn't rabid racists in their community.

The US at the moment is a place where everyone seems to mistrust everyone else. Race relations are at their lowest point since the LA riots (an event that lest we forget, black mobs went to war on Asian immigrant communities, because... you know, Rodney King)

I think I remember writing that prejudice in all forms was wrong regardless of what you call it, dont think im giving anyone a pass.

whisky_galore

Shabra wrote: »

Why would you hold your hands up, you didn't do anything wrong?


It's arbitrary, if a plumber goes on a murderous rampage should all plumbers apologise?

I wouldn't feel guilt, no. But I would acknowledge it happened all the same if it were so, not try and paper over the cracks and pretend that we were all a sound bunch of lads. Sh*t happens.

viztopia

RWCNT wrote: »

Naw. Have a google and read a bit. Touchy wouchy.

And everything you read on the internet is correct......

pmasterson95

RWCNT wrote: »

Naw. Have a google and read a bit. Touchy wouchy.

No still a dunce

Amirani

Clearly has aspirations to become the Una Mullaly of the race commentary sphere. Now it's slavery and rape that I'm apparently responsible for, what next?

Greenmachine

Maybe we should be mad at the british for occupying Ireland for some hundreds of years. Actually feel a bit better living in the present.

RWCNT

viztopia wrote: »

And everything you read on the internet is correct......

Im reading quite a bit now I think could be incorrect actually, you may have a point there, pal.

I dont really have a concrete opinion anyway, just lovin debate.

Shabra

whisky_galore wrote: »

I wouldn't feel guilt, no. But I would acknowledge it happened all the same if it were so, not try and paper over the cracks and pretend that we were all a sound bunch of lads. Sh*t happens.

Everyone can acknowledge it happened, but it has nothing to do with people today who did no wrong.

RWCNT

pmasterson95 wrote: »

No still a dunce

No, u.

GerB40

whisky_galore wrote: »

Why should I? Grand total of family members that were involved in the trans Atlantic slave trade = 0.

Now, if records showed my policeman granduncle happened to clobber black people around on the streets of Detroit in 1920-squat I'd hold my hands up, but otherwise fcuk right off.

But why should you? If your policeman uncle did clobber black people for no reason then he was certainly a prick. But you shouldn't take any responsibility for his actions. It's okay to be ashamed of family members but any and all actions taken by them are out of your control.

Amirani

RWCNT wrote: »

Naw. Have a google and read a bit. Touchy wouchy.

The white farming minority in Zimbabwe who are suffering as a result of clearly racist policies that Mugabe tries to mask as anti-colonialism aren't actually victims of racist policies?

The notion that discrimination can only come from the majority, or those that hold power, is bonkers. Discrimination is discrimination.

weisses

If it wasn't for the white man he would have not become as rich as he is now ..... Whats his issue

hfallada

It's weird how Chris rock totally ignores white Europeans have done to each other eg 2 world wars, countless other wars, the Irish famine. This was Europeans just killing Europeans. We could all take his approach and be responsible for our actions. But it will get us no where. Sometimes you have up forgive and forget.

GerB40

He seemed to have changed his tune in less than a month. http://m.motherjones.com/mixed-media/2014/12/chris-rock-daughters%20

"The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced". He's a seriously clever man who understands race very well. It's a shame to hear shyte like this from him..

RWCNT

Diego Simeone wrote: »

The white farming minority in Zimbabwe who are suffering as a result of clearly racist policies that Mugabe tries to mask as anti-colonialism aren't actually victims of racist policies?

The notion that discrimination can only come from the majority, or those that hold power, is bonkers. Discrimination is discrimination.

I actually made it clear that I believe discrimination = discrimination and that its clearly wrong whatever name you put on it. In the instance you just described that would actually be considered racism under the definition I presented as there is systemstic oppression enforced. When I said "not sure if a black person can be racist to a white person" I meant in a society predominantly governed by white people, apologies for not making that clear.

Im only talking about the definition of racism here, which I feel a dictionary definition is a bit light for. As I say anyway, Im not really arsed one way or another and its more of a side note than anythinb to do with the main topic of the thread

Sonderkommando

To hell or Barbados by Sean O'Callaghan is an excellent book detailing the forgotten story of Irish slavery. Also TG4 did a documentary called the redlegs on the ancestors of those slaves still living in Barbados, its a fascinating watch.

Carlos Orange

RWCNT wrote: »

In the instance you just described that would actually be considered racism under the definition I presented as there is systemstic oppression enforced. When I said "not sure if a black person can be racist to a white person" I meant in a society predominantly governed by white people, apologies for not making that clear.

Under that redefinition of what racism is nobody can be racist. Only races can be racist. Which strikes me as racist. In the old school real meaning.

suicide_circus

Dont know why I expected better from chris rock than to come out with such utter nonsense, clearly calculated to capitalised on recent racial tensions in the states. Idiot.

RWCNT

psinno wrote: »

Under that redefinition of what racism is nobody can be racist. Only races can be racist. Which strikes me as racist. In the old school real meaning.

Well yeah, totally. Under that definition the other non dominant races would be condidered bigoted or prejudiced rather than racist. I dont think it makes much of a difference personally what you call it, its all equally evil

Streetwalker

There is a minority of blacks in America who are as racist as anything the white power movement have drummed up. They seem to think its okay to be racist because they are black. I speak as a person who lived in the US for many years so am speaking from experience.

Shabra

Racism is discrimination based on race. Not a fan of the term "race" being used as humans are one race, but there you go.

keithclancy

Load of ****e, if that's the case then why don't Americans own the mistakes of their ancestors and give the land back to the native Americans who were there before them.

Generational guilt is a load of bollocks.

Tony EH

RWCNT wrote: »

When I said "not sure if a black person can be racist to a white person" I meant in a society predominantly governed by white people, apologies for not making that clear.

You're still wrong.

If a person makes statements or actions against me, because of my race, they are indulging in racism.

It really is that simple and it matters not whether the person doing it is black, white, yellow, blue or green.

Racism is not a one way street, no matter who it is that governs.

RWCNT

Tony EH wrote: »

You're still wrong.

If a person makes statements or actions against me, because of my race, they are indulging in racism.

It really is that simple and it matters not whether the person doing it is black, white, yellow, blue or green.

Racism is not a one way street, no matter who it is that governs.

Thats one school of thought and I respect your opinion.

UCDVet

RWCNT wrote: »

Thats one school of thought and I respect your opinion.

It's not an OPINION. Words have meaning. Effective communication requires use to all use the same definitions. That's why we have dictionaries.

Racism
the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

AngeGal

Seems like pretty much nobody commenting here bothered reading the interview. He talks about how it's not black progress that Obama is president but white progress because there have always been black people qualified to be president. Then references how much progress has been made in race relations. Then is asked "It's about white people adjusting to a new reality?"

He says "Owning their actions. Not even their actions. The actions of your dad. Yeah, it’s unfair that you can get judged by something you didn’t do, but it’s also unfair that you can inherit money that you didn’t work for."

He's clearly not suggesting white people today should feel guilty about the slave trade but rather recognise the racism which existed far more commonly in America until recent times. He never mentions ancestors, only familial reference is to 'your dad', he's talking about how each generation needs to improve. Also this was an interview between two Americans for an american magazine so I highly doubt he was thinking of White Europeans at all.

Link in OP is sensationalist nonsense removing context and twisting words.

Son Of A Vidic

Overheal wrote: »

White people need to own the actions of their ancestors

Chris the idiot, needs to go learn some history and educate himself about Irish slaves - the forgotten white slaves.

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70 percent of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves.”

“During the 1650s, over 100,000 Irish children between the ages of 10 and 14 were taken from their parents and sold as slaves in the West Indies, Virginia and New England. In this decade, 52,000 Irish (mostly women and children) were sold to Barbados and Virginia. Another 30,000 Irish men and women were also transported and sold to the highest bidder. In 1656, [Oliver] Cromwell ordered that 2000 Irish children be taken to Jamaica and sold as slaves to English settlers.”

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/history/irish-the-forgotten-white-slaves-says-expert-john-martin-188645531-237793261.html

AngeGal

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Chris the idiot, needs to go learn some history and educate himself about Irish slaves - the forgotten white slaves.

Perhaps, like most posters on here, you should read his remarks in context in the full interview rather than the slanted viewpoint offered in the initial link before you call him an idiot.

Highflyer13

American media is stirring up a lot of s**t lately. Every race is generalised, blacks, whites, latinos, Asians etc and in particular pitching of blacks against whites lately.

RWCNT

UCDVet wrote: »

It's not an OPINION. Words have meaning. Effective communication requires use to all use the same definitions. That's why we have dictionaries.

Some would argue a definition in a dictionary written years ago by the dominants in a society is an inappropriate point of reference in discussions like this. Whomever put pen to paper on your definition was almost certainly not a marginalized person themselves and as such I can absolutely understand why the oppressed would be unwilling to accept a definition passed down by a person of privilege when they have faced the prejudice themselves every day of their lives. I havnt made this up myself on a whim, its a point of view held by many and I think its interesting to think about with an open mind. It makes no practical difference if you are against discrimination in all forms but I am interested in why this theory is so upsetting to many. I generally refer to the sort of thing Im on about as institutionalised racism anyway but Ive found some of the arguments Ive read quite a bit more compelling than than your google definition.

AngeGal

Btw OP Rock never said the quote you attribute to him in the thread title.

Saipanne

Jamiekelly wrote: »

Hasn't Chris Rock been basing his entire comedy routine for the past 15 years on colour?

I know. I don't see why he is so popular.


CR: "Do you remember when everybody had Jerry Curls?"


No Chris. No I don't. That's why I'm not laughing.

Son Of A Vidic

AngeGal wrote: »

Perhaps, like most posters on here, you should read his remarks in context in the full interview rather than the slanted viewpoint offered in the initial link before you call him an idiot.

It looks like you were foolish enough to make the completely stupid assertion that I did not read the article. Now while is is Christmas Day, I certainly am not going to engage in a hand holding exercise for you, so I'll make this brief. My previous post was primarily directed at these comments by Rock....

"White people were crazy."

“Owning their actions. Not even their actions. The actions of your dad. Yeah, it’s unfair that you can get judged by something you didn’t do, but it’s also unfair that you can inherit money that you didn’t work for.”

http://www.inquisitr.com/1647511/chris-rock-on-white-people-they-must-own-the-actions-of-their-racist-ancestors/

No Chris you generalising fool, they certainly were not. Because around the time your ancestors were being the brutalised by the slave trade. Us Irish and our ancestors were amongst the first slaves in the Americas. So I, like most Irish, have certainly no baggage nor do we have anything to apologise for.

Ave Sodalis

RWCNT wrote: »

Some would argue a definition in a dictionary written years ago by the dominants in a society is an inappropriate point of reference in discussions like this.

Oxford dictionary gets reviewed four times a year

http://public.oed.com/the-oed-today/recent-updates-to-the-oed/

AngeGal

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

It looks like you were foolish enough to make the completely stupid assertion that I did not read the article. Now while is is Christmas Day, I certainly am not going to engage in a hand holding exercise for you, so I'll make this brief. My previous post was primarily directed at these comments by Rock....





http://www.inquisitr.com/1647511/chris-rock-on-white-people-they-must-own-the-actions-of-their-racist-ancestors/

No Chris you generalising fool, they certainly were not. Because around the time your ancestors were being the brutalised by the slave trade. Us Irish and our ancestors were amongst the first slaves in the Americas. So I, like most Irish, have certainly no baggage nor do we have anything to apologise for.

As I previously said, it's an interview between two Americans for an American magazine aimed at an American audience, specifically the readers of New York Magazine. If you read it and thought his comments were in reference to white people worldwide, well I don't really know what to say to that.

"White people were crazy" - American reference to when racism was legal, water fountains, etc. He referenced earlier in the interview how his mother had to go to a vet to get her teeth out. Seems fairly crazy.
"Owning their actions" - Saying that white Americans should recognise the racism which was commonplace until a few decades ago.

In the same interview he refers to how "my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced."

Again notice the reference to America, I don't know how an Irish person could take offence to anything in this interview.

PS. You obviously didn't read it close enough to correct Overheal's 'quote' from Chris Rock in your first post.