Will you vote in the gay marriage referendum?

floggg wrote: »

I actually think you insult the intelligence of the undecideds thinking they could be swayed by the comments in response to the ignorant, bigoted nonsense being posted.


If their sympathies lies with the poster spouting that crap, then they aren't that undecided.

I'm not insulting the intelligence of the undecided at all. I was talking about all those people who say they would support marriage equality, but then come referendum day they couldn't be bothered voting because they're sick of the two sides bickering at each other - voter apathy. I don't think anyone will be swayed either way by the "arguments", but I DO worry, like I said, that each time a 'yes' campaigner takes the bait and rises to negative comments from people who were always going to vote 'no' anyway, it doesn't do people campaigning for a 'yes' vote any favours.

My sympathies don't lie with anyone spouting crap, and that includes both people from the 'no' campaign spouting bigoted, ignorant crap, and people from the 'yes' campaign spouting bigoted, ignorant crap.

I can ignore the 'no' campaigns best efforts, but I do hold the 'yes' campaign to a higher standard of having dignity and respect for people who do not share their beliefs or opinions, and it's embarrassing for me personally when I see people in the 'yes' campaign calling people 'closet gays' and implying that if they're a priest they must be a pedophile. It's not so long ago that same slur was being associated with LGBT people, but some people have very short memories. Either that, or they really are just too blinded by their own hatred and prejudice to think that there are many religious people who actually support marriage equality, but they also feel targeted and excluded when they read the opinions of some people in the 'yes' campaign make vicious slurs against their religious beliefs.

This referendum isn't about religion, it's about human beings rights, and equal recognition for all citizens of Ireland in the Constitution, I'd prefer to see people argue the legalities than the moralities, and leave their personal grudges at the door if they're the very same people are talking about making progress in society and moving forward.

I've already stated my position that I am undecided until I see the wording of the referendum, and I'll wait and see what comes of the Children and Families bill before that, because the two are intrinsically linked, and if the wording of the referendum offers anything less than marriage equality, or there are any influences that I think might create a legal quagmire in the future with regard to LGBT families or their children that would not be faced were they not LGBT, then I will be voting no, and will begin campaigning again, rather than be merely 'satisfied' with some half-assed 'limbo-laws' that could mean in the future that LGBT people and their children were given the appearance of being treated equally, but some clause was sneaked into legislation that means they never were, only nobody saw it at the time.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I see people in the 'yes' campaign calling people 'closet gays' and implying that if they're a priest they must be a pedophile. It's not so long ago that same slur was being associated with LGBT people, but some people have very short memories. Either that, or they really are just too blinded by their own hatred and prejudice to think that there are many religious people who actually support marriage equality, but they also feel targeted and excluded when they read the opinions of some people in the 'yes' campaign make vicious slurs against their religious beliefs.

This referendum isn't about religion, it's about human beings rights, and equal recognition for all citizens of Ireland in the Constitution, I'd prefer to see people argue the legalities than the moralities, and leave their personal grudges at the door if they're the very same people are talking about making progress in society and moving forward.

Well said.

jobbridge4life wrote: »

I look forward to the day when I don't have to worry about the hurt feelz of those who believe I deserve to be legally discriminated against. That believe my family deserve less protection. That day I pray for.

Exactly.
That sort of thing, putting words in people's mouths and thoughts in their heads to have a go at them. Not very endearing.
If the Yes side stick to positive arguments as to why people should vote Yes, it should be a comfortable win.

keeponhurling wrote: »

I think it makes sense, hetrosexual couples can have all the legal rights, without having to participate in something with religious connotations.

Civil Marriage has no religious connection either.

In any case unless we remove the part about marriage having a special place and it can't be attacked, civil partnerships will not have the same rights here.

kunst nugget wrote: »

'I'm voting no because I believe in the tradition of marriage and it's better for children like this!'

'Well, this viewpoint is completely outdated and not supported by research'

'

I would say a better answer would be
"You're entitled to your view, but I think it would actually be better for children if you vote Yes, because of <insert reasonable argument(s) here>."

kunst nugget wrote: »

Why?

I don't really. It's just the general answer you get.

Daith wrote: »

No, a child needs a mother and father. I find the idea of two men raising a child to be creepy.

Don't raise a child with a another man, so. Creepiness avoided and problem solved.

endacl wrote: »

I had a lovely rogan josh last night. I hope people who support traditional dinners didn't experience their meat and two veg as being undermined or devalued at all in any way.

Perhaps it made no difference to their dinner at all?

*analogy ends*

This debate is fcucking stupid.

Well, if you are in a debate trying to convince people, the other people might be making arguments to support their view (and generally it's easier to persuade people not to make changes),

and you come out with "this debate is focking stupid", or "this debate isn't relevant to you", then you're not going to be convincing many people of the merit of your arguments.

keeponhurling wrote: »

and you come out with "this debate is focking stupid", or "this debate isn't relevant to you", then you're not going to be convincing many people of the merit of your arguments.

The No have no arguments at all. Not one. Yet it's the Yes side who constantly have to do persuade people?

You either vote yes for equality or you vote no for inequality.

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

The important question is whether your rogan josh consumption:

1. Made Baby Jesus Cry
2. Did Not Make Baby Jesus Cry

Let's get to the crux of the matter here.

Yes, sure rogan josh has been around forever but is it natural?

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Or, y'know, we could just break out the violins, or talk about lovey dovey, rather than discuss complications and legal issues that may arise from whether the referendum passes or fails, since we seem to be gone from taking it seriously to descending to the facetious.

The referendum has nothing to do with children though regardless if it fails or passes.

david75 wrote: »

As usual, your posting is barely legible for being so utterly nonsensical but I'll meet it at its own level. Just for you.

I think you're about to discover it is the view of Ireland's people that they do support gay marriage and they will elect to at last shake off that last hypocritical grasp of a church long since made irellevant and finally be rid of the hateful claptrap of the churches self obsessed and self aggrandising splinter group, them four lonely sad clowns in Iona. I just wonder about what will be the next target for your irrelevant and outdated view once the referendum passes and Ireland's people let their unwillingness to be controlled by such a hateful few be known.
You're not allowed dismiss other religions anymore, or assume superiority over people of different belief(or skin Colour) anymore (wouldn't be very Christian of you if you did).

So where for you next? Are you married? Would any sane woman have you with such a view? The priesthood maybe? You have nobody left to hate, but yourself. And Like most self repressed self loathing closet cases you'll find the closet you've built for yourself is one you revere but despise. You very clearly are a closeted gay. Stop being obsessed with hating gay lifestyle and gay sex, start by loving your life and living it and go have the sex you really want to have. You'll be glad you did(unless you're the priest in which case leave those kids alone)


MOD: Take a few days off.

Yes you see what is quite evident here that every now and then the mask slips and the true feelings and beliefs of people such as this one surfaces.

david75 wrote: »

Forgot to answer your question. Yep. We'll be having kids. As will thousands of gay couples.


All that's really changed is that they'll be brought up to respect faith but ignore hate. Oh wait. That's the same as being Christian. Well I guess you need to go back to Jesus and his main message.
Love one another.

I would highly recommend that this person,not all people,work on his own life and issues before attempting to become a parent as he wishes to do.There probably are some gay couples out there who would make fine parents and that should be dealt with on a case by case basis.However in the case of the average,garden variety type I believe opening up this to all would be a social and civic calamity.
As our law currently stands a couple must be married to make an application to adopt a child and if this referendum is passed then Pandora's box is opened and the people of Ireland need to think long and hard about this.There is far more involved here than marriage.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Perhaps not from your perspective, and that's fair enough, but from my perspective it certainly does, and not in a moralising "won't somebody think of the children" sort of way, as I've already established that anyone, regardless of their gender, race, sexual orientation, religious beliefs, etc, is capable of raising a child to be a healthy and mature and well-rounded adult, but if this referendum fails, then because of the children and families bill, those children are considered members of a 'de facto' family (see the EHCR Austria decision), and are not then offered the equal status as those children in heterosexual marriages, thereby only offered what I would consider legally the same sub-standard status that LGBT people are currently subjected to.

Another good reason to vote yes then?