Ireland's biggest sporting embarrassment?

23-12-2014 12:02PM

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

Championships rather than grand slams matter. And the All Blacks are the worlds best team. And some say the world's second best team in their reserves.

Neither of these are huge embarrassments -- the 6 nations has two traditional rugby countries with much larger populations, one country where rugby is the largest sport, and scotland and italy.

Historically you would expect us to be mid table. We've over achieved recently. In rugby in general.

Bang on.
Scotland should be our rivals to be honest. England and France have a huge playing population, rugby is the national sport in Wales and then you have Ireland (up to recently a very distant 4th, in terms of team sports)

There is no reason at all that we should expect to be ranked 3rd in the world and certainly not to expect the way that we are one of the dominant club game nations.

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 12:03PM

Don't want to be bashing the rugger lads even more but what about the time they let Martin Johnston bully them on the red carpet before the president.

Granted half the team don't consider themselves irish (which is their right) but you would think the likes of BOD would have had some balls if not for their country and president at least for their professional pride. The English knew they were weak and made sure the game was won before a ball was even kicked.

****e and all as the soccer lads can be I can't see Robbie, Roy or even mick mccarthy capitulating like that.

23-12-2014 12:04PM

That was stupid indeed and a valid embarrassment comment but the comment about them not considering themselves Irish is not valid.

They are not from RoI but the do consider themselves Irish. Rugby one of the few areas where we all actually get on, let's not throw comments like that around

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 12:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Bang on.
Scotland should be our rivals to be honest. England and France have a huge playing population, rugby is the national sport in Wales and then you have Ireland (up to recently a very distant 4th, in terms of team sports)

There is no reason at all that we should expect to be ranked 3rd in the world and certainly not to expect the way that we are one of the dominant club game nations.

Realistically the irish rugby team are more like the English soccer team, they win a few games and are talked up as world elite, lose a few games and they are the worst of all time. The reality is they are somewhere in between.

For all their recent success who can't help but think that when push comes to shove and game is there to be taken and they have put them selves into the winning position as favourite they will fall flat on their face.

No one expected them to compete with the all blacks last year yet they won the 1st half well yet with the game there for them they failed to score in the second half, at home to a side that wasn't at full strength and had come off a long season.

Wc in NZ they beat the Aussies (only time they a beaten a top team in the WC) in the group game to top the group yet failed to show up against wales.

Back in the time of the foot and mouth they had 3 authunm games to win the title yet flopped against a rubbish scotish team.

Granted o gara kicked a fantastic drop goal to win the grand slam a few years ago but on the whole when the game has to be won they fail.

TelePaul · 23-12-2014 12:19PM

Definitely the misplaced self-belief that precedes any international football game (qualifier or tournament). Can't believe the stick Irish Rugby is getting given the absolute mediocrity that is our performance on the soccer pitch and the shambles that is the FAI.

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 12:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

That was stupid indeed and a valid embarrassment comment but the comment about them not considering themselves Irish is not valid.

They are not from RoI but the do consider themselves Irish. Rugby one of the few areas where we all actually get on, let's not throw comments like that around

I have no issue with lads from northen ireland considering themselves British or irish it is their right but your not going to tell me they will hand over their British passports for irish ones? Just because you play for the irish rugby team dosent mean you have to consider yourself irish.

Like I say I have no issue with the ulster lads not showing some pride in the irish jersey or not singing the irish national anthem but it the lads from down here not having and real pride to play for their country that annoys me. To be honest I have a lot of sympathy for the ulster lads as they are caught between a rock and a hard place probably shows why playing for ulster means so much to them.

23-12-2014 12:25PM

You are missing the point. They are representing Irish rugby, a combination of the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland. They are NOT representing RoI and, honestly, neither is the IRFU.

Politically they are not of the Republic of Ireland and are British but they are from the Island of Ireland, which makes them Irish.
Scottish and Welsh lads are also British along with being Scottish and Welsh (or are they British only, as your view would have them)

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 12:26PM

TelePaul wrote: »

Definitely the misplaced self-belief that precedes any international football game (qualifier or tournament). Can't believe the stick Irish Rugby is getting given the absolute mediocrity that is our performance on the soccer pitch and the shambles that is the FAI.

I don't think anyone thinks the fai is a well run organisation.

One has to take your hat off to the IRFU and the GAA hard to find 2 better run national sporting organisations in the world. As long as they can keep the fai out of the bid for the rugby World Cup they have a great chance of pulling it off.

TelePaul · 23-12-2014 12:29PM

grazeaway wrote: »

As long as they can keep the fai out of the bid for the rugby World Cup

Oh Jesus, didn't think of that...

23-12-2014 12:32PM

The FAI have nothing to offer the bid at all. They don't own any stadium capable of hosting a match, which is another embarrassment TBH

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 12:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You are missing the point. They are representing Irish rugby, a combination of the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

Politically they are not or the Republic of Ireland and are British but they are from the Island of Ireland.
Scottish and Welsh lads are also British

I think this is irish rugbys biggest problem it has no real sense of identity. Is it the island of Ireland?, the Republic of Ireland & northen Ireland, the irish nation? Or is it just an IRB franchise?

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 12:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The FAI have nothing to offer the bid at all. They don't own any stadium capable of hosting a match, which is another embarrassment TBH

They have a share in the aviva and have numerous commercial partnerships with big business and have a number of training grounds that some of the teams may look to use.

If it happens it will be the biggest sporting event in the country ever so everyone will be looking for a piece of the action.

TelePaul · 23-12-2014 12:40PM

grazeaway wrote: »

I think this is irish rugbys biggest problem it has no real sense of identity.

:eek:

23-12-2014 12:41PM

grazeaway wrote: »

Realistically the irish rugby team are more like the English soccer team, they win a few games and are talked up as world elite, lose a few games and they are the worst of all time. The reality is they are somewhere in between.

For all their recent success who can't help but think that when push comes to shove and game is there to be taken and they have put them selves into the winning position as favourite they will fall flat on their face.

No one expected them to compete with the all blacks last year yet they won the 1st half well yet with the game there for them they failed to score in the second half, at home to a side that wasn't at full strength and had come off a long season.

Wc in NZ they beat the Aussies (only time they a beaten a top team in the WC) in the group game to top the group yet failed to show up against wales.

Back in the time of the foot and mouth they had 3 authunm games to win the title yet flopped against a rubbish scotish team.

Granted o gara kicked a fantastic drop goal to win the grand slam a few years ago but on the whole when the game has to be won they fail.

You talk as if the other teams are not able to play. Munster and Leinster have shown repeatedly that they can grind out results. International is a completely different animal

23-12-2014 12:42PM

grazeaway wrote: »

They have a share in the aviva and have numerous commercial partnerships with big business and have a number of training grounds that some of the teams may look to use.

If it happens it will be the biggest sporting event in the country ever so everyone will be looking for a piece of the action.

They have a share in the management company of the Aviva.
The stadium will revert back to ownership of IRFU, once that lease is up

23-12-2014 12:43PM

grazeaway wrote: »

I think this is irish rugbys biggest problem it has no real sense of identity. Is it the island of Ireland?, the Republic of Ireland & northen Ireland, the irish nation? Or is it just an IRB franchise?

Nope, that's just your problem (and the problem of those that try to force their politics onto rugby). It is Ireland... that's identity enough

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 12:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You talk as if the other teams are not able to play. Munster and Leinster have shown repeatedly that they can grind out results. International is a completely different animal

Maybe playing for Munster and Leinster means more then playing for Ireland. It's like the bumper sticker down here

"Irish by birth, Munster by the grace of god"

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 12:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

They have a share in the management company of the Aviva.
The stadium will revert back to ownership of IRFU, once that lease is up

Didn't know that thought they bought into it when the place was done up.

ButtersSuki · 23-12-2014 01:02PM

grazeaway wrote: »

Maybe playing for Munster and Leinster means more then playing for Ireland. It's like the bumper sticker down here

"Irish by birth, Munster by the grace of god"

I recently saw a "modified" version of that car sticker on the boot of a Limerick reg car that had been over-stickered to read:

"Irish by birth, Munster by inbreeding."

I found it somewhat amusing given the drivers obliviousness to the fact that his sticker had been over-stickered.

23-12-2014 01:05PM

grazeaway wrote: »

Maybe playing for Munster and Leinster means more then playing for Ireland. It's like the bumper sticker down here

"Irish by birth, Munster by the grace of god"

And maybe you are reaching and don't actually know what you are talking about (honestly trying not to sound harsh there)

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 01:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Nope, that's just your problem (and the problem of those that try to force their politics onto rugby). It is Ireland... that's identity enough

Is not really. In most countries the main symbols of the country are its flag and anthem, both of these are side stepped in rugby or pushed into the corner out of sight. It's as if the tricolour and the national anthem are something to be ashamed of. Both predate partition and independence but are universally seen as symbols of Ireland.

I for one would love to live in a country that lives by the ideals of the tricolour where both traditions live in peace. In fact the tricolour is more of representation of irish rugby then the IRFU logo.

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 01:07PM

ButtersSuki wrote: »

I recently saw a "modified" version of that car sticker on the boot of a Limerick reg car that had been over-stickered to read:

"Irish by birth, Munster by inbreeding."

I found it somewhat amusing given the drivers obliviousness to the fact that his sticker had been over-stickered.

We will have to pin the blame on that at the boys in D4. :pac::pac:

23-12-2014 01:10PM

grazeaway wrote: »

Is not really. In most countries the main symbols of the country are its flag and anthem, both of these are side stepped in rugby or pushed into the corner out of sight. It's as if the tricolour and the national anthem are something to be ashamed of. Both predate partition and independence but are universally seen as symbols of Ireland.

I for one would love to live in a country that lives by the ideals of the tricolour where both traditions live in peace. In fact the tricolour is more of representation of irish rugby then the IRFU logo.

The IRFU is not aligned to the State of Ireland. The national flag and anthem of the State are not representative of Northern Ireland.... problem?

Honestly the barstooling of non rugby people when they can not comprehend that Irish rugby is not linked to the State "Ireland" is embarrassing in and of itself

jmayo · 23-12-2014 01:11PM

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

Championships rather than grand slams matter. And the All Blacks are the worlds best team. And some say the world's second best team in their reserves.

I actually don't think they are always the world's best team and the WC goes to prove that.
And it is that mentality that gives the All Blacks a fecking big advantage before a ball is even kicked.
Thankfully people like Joe Schmidt is probably not going to feed into that fecking mindset and use it as an excuse.

They always have a team in the top 4, but always the best ?
And as for their reserves, see the last world cup to see how poor their out halves were once they lost Carter and second choice Slade, granted Carter was probably the best one in the world at the time.

NoMore MrNiceGuy wrote: »

Neither of these are huge embarrassments -- the 6 nations has two traditional rugby countries with much larger populations, one country where rugby is the largest sport, and scotland and italy.

Historically you would expect us to be mid table. We've over achieved recently. In rugby in general.

We are on a par with Scotland in terms of results, but we have only achieved that over the last 10/15 odd years where they have regressed since the advent of the professional era.

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 01:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And maybe you are reaching and don't actually know what you are talking about (honestly trying not to sound harsh there)

Used to live in limerick and playing Munster rugby means a lot to people there and dare I say it more then playing for Ireland. Worked in Belfast too for while and it was the same with the ulster lads. Know a few ex Munster lads from cork and they would be the same but playing for Ireland meant more to them then some of the limerick lads. The pro contract had nothing to do it with. Not sure about the lads in Connacht or Leinster

23-12-2014 01:15PM

jmayo wrote: »

We are on a par with Scotland in terms of results, but we have only achieved that over the last 10/15 odd years where they have regressed since the advent of the professional era.

Exactly coincides with our "golden generation". It is always going to be cyclical with us (and with Scotland to be fair)

grazeaway · 23-12-2014 01:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The IRFU is not aligned to the State of Ireland. The national flag and anthem of the State are not representative of Northern Ireland.... problem?

Honestly the barstooling of non rugby people when they can not comprehend that Irish rugby is not linked to the State "Ireland" is embarrassing in and of itself

The what is it linked to? It's as if there was something wrong with been seen as irish

The boxing, gaa and serval other sports are all island but they use the irish flag and anthem

jmayo · 23-12-2014 01:19PM

grazeaway wrote: »

I don't think anyone thinks the fai is a well run organisation.

One has to take your hat off to the IRFU and the GAA hard to find 2 better run national sporting organisations in the world. As long as they can keep the fai out of the bid for the rugby World Cup they have a great chance of pulling it off.

I have a feeling that the IRFU and GAA will try try and make sure delaney is kept a million miles away.
They probably will open a bar tab for him somewhere, preferably somewhere with no mobile coverage.

People moan and whine about the GAA and they may do the same about the blazers in the IRFU, but if it wasn't for them this country would have shag all stadia.
When they set their mind to things they actually get things done.

23-12-2014 01:23PM

grazeaway wrote: »

The what is it linked to? It's as if there was something wrong with been seen as irish

The boxing, gaa and serval other sports are all island but they use the irish flag and anthem

We get it, you can not comprehend that the State of Ireland is not linked to the IRFU.
When you can wrap your head around that things will be much easier.

Seeing as this is gone completely off topic, I am out. Before a mod slaps me down

irelandrover · 23-12-2014 01:32PM

grazeaway wrote: »

The what is it linked to? It's as if there was something wrong with been seen as irish

The boxing, gaa and serval other sports are all island but they use the irish flag and anthem

Do you really not see why a team that is representing the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland do not compete under the flag and anthem of only one of those countries?

Ireland's biggest sporting embarrassment?

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