Will you vote in the gay marriage referendum?

a person. wrote: »

What happens someone if they vote no ?

a person. wrote: »

These answers don't match for some reason . . .

One eyed Jack wrote: »

EVERYTHING, is about perception. I simply can't stress that enough, and how people react when they are being baited will very much colour people's perception of them. It's one of the reasons why even though I read through this thread, I was reluctant to contribute because the course of the thread had simply taken the same template course they always do. Right now, the default position in Ireland is that LGBT people are discriminated against in a number of areas in Irish law. In order to change that default position, the burden is on the people who want to change the laws, to come up with the compelling arguments. There is no burden on people who want to maintain the status quo - they simply have to turn up at the booth and vote 'no'. They don't have to convince anyone of anything, so looking for arguments against marriage equality is simply a futile exercise and a waste of energy IMO.





You wouldn't though, at all, and up until recently you'd probably only have been sanctioned in the Christianity forum for expressing such an opinion. There are numerous posts in this thread that fail to make the distinction between the opinions of the Hierarchy within the Irish RCC, and the opinions of the congregation. Even when Joey called people on it early on in the thread, it continued unabated, and same goes for elderly people in this country - the perception that they are generally bigoted and would vote no in a referendum on marriage equality. Clearly the posters espousing such views haven't really engaged with ordinary members of the RCC or elderly people (I can't help but wonder are they languishing under the ignorant and misguided perception that there are no elderly LGBT members of the RCC. They'd be wrong, but I prefer to pick my battles than engage with those who absolutely will not be moved from their position).





People aren't going to be able to see their own flaws and biases any clearer when you call them out on what you perceive to be their misguided perceptions without first making the effort to understand where they might be coming from, and deciding based on that whether it is worth your time and energy engaging with them. If they're already so rooted in their beliefs that you're likely to aggravate them, then IMO they're not worth engaging with. You would be better IMO to concentrate on supporting those people who already agree with you and encouraging them to come out and vote in favour of marriage equality for LGBT people.





Have you considered the point that people who disagree with your opinion don't particularly care for your opinion? Have you considered that while there may be no argument against marriage equality (in your opinion), that doesn't necessarily mean that there are no reasons to reject a referendum on marriage equality? Politicians aren't known for their honesty and their straightforward manner, and this has been evidenced time and again with the wording of the divorce referendum, the abortion referendum, and successive legislation that has been brought forward as a result of both those issues.

We're currently in a legal quagmire with regard to both divorce and abortion in this country, and do you honestly think the proposed wording of any referendum on marriage equality will be any less ham fisted and arse covering than previous referenda? I wouldn't hold my breath that it will be anything as straightforward as a simple 'yes' or 'no', and if it's aims are anything less than what it says on the tin, I can tell you right now that I will be voting 'no', if only to send a message back to politicians that anything less than true equality in line with the EHCR guidelines on the issue is simply not good enough, and they need to go back to the drawing board until they can come up with copper fastened wording that will legislate for true marital equality regardless of the gender or sexual orientation of the parties involved in the marriage -





(Now I know some of these issues are being addressed under the recent CHILDREN AND FAMILY RELATIONSHIPS BILL 2014 which I think itself will require careful examination as it's being done in an arse about face fashion. IMO we should be legislating for marriage equality first, and then drafting legislation with regard to the rights of children and families afterwards, based on the outcome of a referendum on marriage equality. By putting the cart before the horse, politicians are again simply paving the way for far more complicated suffering and heartache, instead of legislation that could have been so bloody simple.





You're setting yourself up there on the back foot with the expression "as a gay man", it carries as much weight as anyone else who says "as a parent". If you truly want to make the point that there is no difference to a child regardless of the sexuality or gender of their parents, then I'd drop the "as a gay man" point of argument. Being a gay man doesn't confer you with any special powers that would differentiate your parenting ability from anyone else's potential ability to care for a child, including the biological parents of said children (and I say that as someone whose neighbour did a better job of raising me than my own parents did, and my neighbour was an elderly widow!).





Jesus, enough with the labelling already. I never meant to insinuate you were "closed minded" or any of the rest of that nonsense. Short-sighted perhaps, but that's hardly the same thing, as you're unwilling to acknowledge even at this point that what you think, isn't as important as thinking about the way your opponent thinks. You're unwilling to acknowledge any opinion that to you is bigoted or stupid, and that's fine, if your future weren't dependent on that person seeing things from your point of view. Call them bigoted and stupid all you want, but the day of the referendum, you may regret that you didn't extend an olive branch instead of beating them with a thorny stick.





See you can make all the protests you want equating racism and homophobia, and the arguments may hold up in an abstract sense, but arguing that way fails to acknowledge that the two are based on very different motivations, not the least of which being that with racism the differences are present immediately on the exterior, whereas with homophobia, the differences are interior and not immediately evident. Even attempts to equate interracial marriage with same sex marriage, simply ignores the intrinsic components of both in order to make that equation. That does both a disservice IMO.





You're entitled of course to hold fast to that position, and nothing I can say will change your mind I don't think at this point, but you're not going to like what I'm going to say next -

This referendum is more than just about you and what you want or what you will and won't accept, and you have to try and see the bigger picture rather than personalising the discussion as a gay man as if only you will be affected by whether the referendum passes or doesn't. While you're busy reminding everyone else that the outcome of this referendum affects everyone and even future generations, it might be worth keeping that in mind for yourself.

fran17 wrote: »

That depends if your talking about the traditional true marriage that all faiths recognise or the "redefined"version that we're talking about here.If your talking about one then everything and if the other then nothing.But you could have asked this question about 90% of the posts here.Why choose this post,exactly?

porsche959 wrote: »

I'm undecided, personally, as to how I will vote, but the idea that anyone opposed is automatically a troglodyte homophobe needs to be knocked on the head, it is most unfair and wrong - not least to the gay people that have reservations themselves about being pressured into voting for this referendum. Indeed there are at least two prominent gay Irish political commentators that are on the record as being opposed, for moral/theological reasons.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Marriage is regulated AND by the Church

We are asking for access to Equal civil marriage. Not religious marriage.