Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

5starpool · 15-12-2014 07:10PM

If even half of these whispers about Rodgers not wanting players is true why has he gone to lengths i nthe past to stress that he has final say on all players?

Harry Palmr · 15-12-2014 07:16PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

LFC TV FA Youth Cup Bradford

#LFC U18s team v Bradford in the FA Youth Cup: Firth, Polgar, Whelan, Brewitt, Rossiter, Phillips, Canos, Chirivella, Sinclair, Kent, Ojo.

Confirmed #LFC U18s substitutes for the FA Youth Cup game against Bradford tonight: Wheeler, Wilson, Ejaria, Travis, Lewis.

In all the excitement no one has noticed that Liverpool U19s have been drawn against Benfica in the UEFA Youth League

Canos and Sinclair 2-0 after 10 mins. Weird how they play like last years seniors did...just sayin'

For some reason the feed has no commentary.

Turtyturd · 15-12-2014 07:20PM

5starpool wrote: »

If even half of these whispers about Rodgers not wanting players is true why has he gone to lengths i nthe past to stress that he has final say on all players?

Maybe it's a literal final say...as in if they are deadlocked he gets the deciding say.

5live · 15-12-2014 07:22PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

I have asked this question over the last few days to those who stand behind Rodgers. I will ask again.

Why hasn't one of the most highly regarded young managers in the world not been able to set up a defence that won't stop leaking goals after being in the job for 2.5 seasons and £75m spend on goalkeeper and defenders.

He talks the talk but can't/won't coach a defence in any system that will stop them leaking goals.

Why ?

I will take it, as a Rodgers supporter since well before he got the job.

I actually answered a lot of this yesterday but will go again.
We signed a lot of players but no leaders. Take the second goal yesterday. Before the cross came in, there was a good line with Skrtel(RVP), Lovren(Mata) and Moreno(free). As the cross comes in, Skrtel drops back (again) before going forward to challenge for the ball. Lovren sees the ball is going to RVP but doesn't call to Skrtel to mark or that he will challenge but steps forward to challenge but is too late. He ignores Mata without calling to Moreno to pick him up. Moreno totally ignores Mata.
3 simple mistakes,
Skrtel dropping off and being too far off to challenge,
Lovren not trusting Skrtel/seeing Skrtel about to fcuk up and moving to challenge without passing off his man and
Moreno falling asleep again and not picking up the free man.

Skrtel and Lovren are the worst CB pairing probably in the entire league, all 92 teams. They don't trust each other and are at odds over what to do.
The players are fcuking up big time and should be able to sort it out without the managers help but Rodgers simply hasn't knocked their two heads together a good few times and tied them together with electric cable or something to remind them of their jobs.
Toure is a leader, he isn't the best CB by any stretch but he communicates with his partner and, imo, needs to start as many games as he can handle until any combination of the other CBs is able to perform that basic task of talking during the game.

It's not a huge thing, but a solid CB pairing that works is needed and this for me is the huge failing of Rodgers management so far. It's not like some combination of the 4 CBs we have are not of the standard required. The keeper benefits from not being exposed time after time from simple situations and can concentrate on his own job.

JohnDaniels · 15-12-2014 07:26PM

5starpool wrote: »

If even half of these whispers about Rodgers not wanting players is true why has he gone to lengths i nthe past to stress that he has final say on all players?

In the interview James Pearse says he does have final say but when the committee come back with players feasible for a position it might not include Rodgers pick for that position. He then needs to decide if he's OK going with one of the other players on the list which they have decided can be bought.

In the case of Ballotelli it seems they really snooker him into a corner where he had no choice if it played out as Pearse said. Couple of days left in the window, told the only striking option they had left which they could make work was Balo. So Rodgers either took him or no one.

He still had final say though

Gits_bone · 15-12-2014 07:35PM

Why does he not play the players he bought before the committee, i.e Borini? Just insane.

J Mysterio · 15-12-2014 07:39PM

rob316 wrote: »

While everyone picks on trivial stuff like Borini the real issue is Rodgers wasn't allowed sign all the players he wanted.

The Borini situation is hardly trivial.

Borini is a player Rodgers wanted.

Turtyturd · 15-12-2014 07:40PM

Gits_bone wrote: »

Why does he not play the players he bought before the committee, i.e Borini? Just insane.

Bony probably would have come in if Borini was sold, he refused to move so got blacklisted.

Demosthenese · 15-12-2014 07:47PM

5live wrote: »

Lovren sees the ball is going to RVP but doesn't call to Skrtel to mark or that he will challenge but steps forward to challenge but is too late. He ignores Mata without calling to Moreno to pick him up. Moreno totally ignores Mata.
3 simple mistakes,

They don't trust each other and are at odds over what to do.

The players are fcuking up big time and should be able to sort it out without the managers help but Rodgers simply hasn't knocked their two heads together a good few times

Toure is a leader, he isn't the best CB by any stretch but he communicates with his partner and, imo, needs to start as many games as he can handle until any combination of the other CBs is able to perform that basic task of talking during the game.

I think the goal happened too quick to say anything along the lines of "Hey Skrtel i will make this challenge" or "Yo Moreno, go cover Mata" to be honest. It's not a communication thing in my mind - its a total lack of ability and balls to be the man - see the header go and ****ing win it! Would that ball ever have been lost by Terry/Cahill??? Not a chance. One of them would have checked the flight of the ball and rose like a salmon and dealt with it. Totally agree about Moreno not taking his responsibility though.

Also agree totally that the players need to man up and sort it out. This is not about coaching defensively. It's about players taking responsibility. Same with corners, see the ball go and win it - not joust with the opponent and possibly give away a peno. You can't coach a player to NOT DO what Lovren did yesterday. Its just plain crap defending.

When you mention trust alot and communication, truthfully we've no idea how good or bad a communicator Toure is or Lovren isn't. We need a back 5 that will fight to be better. Fight for eachother and cover for a few mistakes. Obviously with Mig being a disaster this season due to insistently trying to deal with the ball on the deck it becomes a different problem for us cos we are the root of our own downfall.

People keep going on about the defence leaking goals ... well, there's 2 holding mids in front of them and 2 wide men around them and 1-2 forwards that also come into play. We need to defend better as a team. Same as attacking as a team.

Mentality has been questioned in recent weeks. Teams see us as a soft touch. We are doing very little to prove them wrong. Alot of this comes from your leaders. Gerard and Hendo should be flying about the pitch trying to influence the game like Captain/VC's do. Instead they have become too used to hiding.

Charlie19 · 15-12-2014 07:47PM

I'd say the issue with Borini might be over him refusing to make his switch to Sunderland permanent. Now Rodgers is showing his stubborn side by freezing him out totally, hoping that Borini will move on in January.

This makes believe that Rodgers is desperate for some money to fund a new signing.

Augmerson · 15-12-2014 07:48PM

The similarities between Trappatoni and Rodgers are scary. Both alienated and isolated players, both played failed and flawed formations and tactics.

If he wants to continue he needs to just do a amnesty. Talk to all the players and wipe the slate clean. Borini isn't a world beater but his pace and workrate are useful. Migs has hit bad form but is still a million times better than Jones. Yet Rodgers will persist with Lovren (and he has been awful), who according to that Pearce article, he definitely wanted, yet he won't persist with Mignolet? Why because he wanted Vorm?

We can't afford to leave any talent on the sidelines. This was a season that many of us thought in pre season that the young guys coming up through the academy would get games in the league cup or FA cup, maybe even some league appearances. Suso has been the only one I've seen come on and I think he is still due to head off to Italy on a free. There's been none of the younger players getting a go.

To be ****ing honest I don't think players like Lovren should get another go when we have talent in the reserves. Van Gaal has done it at Utd, although it's because of injuries and not having proper replacements in key positions. The likes of Wisdom should have been kept. Illori too. Jesus christ, how much was ****ing spent signing Illori?? I suppose he was a Transfer Committee signing then?

At the end of the day, Rodgers agreed to work with the TC. There's no ****ing point complaining about it. You have to make the most of it. The timing of that article by Pearce is most telling. The pressure is obviously on but Rodgers would rather get his side of it rather than knuckle down and change things.

We will probably field mostly first team players against Bournemouth now. I will lose the plot if Sterling plays. I'd love the club to win a cup, any cup (even the International Champions Cup...:pac:) but the focus needs to be on the Arsenal game. Tbh if we get thumped in that Rodgers is done. And he has dug his grave the whole way.

JohnDaniels · 15-12-2014 07:48PM

Duncan Castle isn't really a source worth taking anything from but his latest article has some ridiculous stuff. Where is all this coming from?

Famously enamoured with Billy Beane's sabermetric approach to hiring baseball players, Henry believed that in the young Englishman he had a football equivalent.

Edwards was invited to spend time with Henry at the businessman's Florida mansion. His guidance was taken seriously when Henry and the rest of Fenway Sports Group sought a replacement for former Reds manager Roy Hodgson.

Aware that numbers mattered to FSG's vision for the club, Edwards appointed Ian Graham as Liverpool's director of research. Holder of a PhD in theoretical physics, Graham had developed a computer programme designed to add discriminative value to player performance statistics provided by companies such as ProZone.

When Rodgers, a scout or an agent suggested Liverpool sign a particular player, Edwards would have the player's numbers run through the Graham model. If the computer said no, the deal was off.

When Red Bull Salzburg were looking for a buyer for Sadio Mane in the summer, Liverpool were one of the clubs approached. Graham's analysis indicated the Senegal international wasn't good enough, so Mane ended up at Southampton instead (paid for with a fraction of the money Rodgers channelled to the South Coast club for Adam Lallana, Dejan Lovren and Lambert).

Mane's new club currently sit fifth in the league table, five points ahead of Liverpool.

Edwards' backing of a "moneyball" approach and Rodgers' limited knowledge of non-Premier League players has led to several standoffs.

Oussama Assaidi and Nuri Sahin were Edwards' men whom Rodgers assented to signing then hardly used in their preferred positions.

After seven league appearances in five months, Sahin's loan was terminated. The Turkey international ended the 2012-13 season playing a Champions League final for Borussia Dortmund.

Assaidi, recently identified by Raheem Sterling as his most skilful team-mate, per Sky Sports, was permitted a total of 83 minutes in the league before being loaned to Stoke City for the last two seasons.

In their first summer working together, Edwards pushed for Fiorentina centre-back Matija Nastasic to be recruited. Rodgers wanted a player with Premier League experience, but during the standoff, Manchester City bought the Serb instead.

Nastasic was named Manchester City's Young Player of the Year during his first season in England, while Liverpool still hasn't found a reliable central defender.

For another Premier League manager whose club also utilised the Graham model, part of that comes as no surprise.

"That guy was a serious nerd," he says. "And the program was ridiculous. The parameters were set from his own view of what a defender, midfielder or attacker should do. They were ludicrous and inaccurate."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2296954-inside-line-liverpools-transfer-committee-has-been-a-spectacular-failure

Gits_bone · 15-12-2014 07:50PM

Carra on MNF says B Rod doesn't focus on defending, only on playing nice football basically.

Charlie19 · 15-12-2014 07:56PM

Rodgers "I would like to sign Vorm"

Edwards "Hang on I'll press enter"

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRn9yt16HG_ZYSZx0GjMO5ytinLRmT62hVabRmRzznet7j0BUp8Uw

Agent Coulson · 15-12-2014 08:05PM

5live wrote: »

It's not a huge thing, but a solid CB pairing that works is needed and this for me is the huge failing of Rodgers management so far. It's not like some combination of the 4 CBs we have are not of the standard required. The keeper benefits from not being exposed time after time from simple situations and can concentrate on his own job.

It's not just a soild CB pairing.

2.5 seasons in the manager should have a solid back four and keeper who can at least keep the same offside line.

Thats the killer for me even if he manager wants to play balls to the wall attacking football a consistent back five who have played together over those 2.5 seasons would have some sort of defensive awareness from playing together.

But he chops and changes what should be a constant. (baring injury).

That is where I don't see him growing as a coach/manager and learning from mistakes.

I would love us to play balls to the wall football like last season with some sort of defensive awareness too.

I think the Chelsea & Crystal Palace games destroyed Brendan Rodgers as much as they did Gerrard.

Neither have recovered from those games.

brevity · 15-12-2014 08:05PM

So, to recap what we've learned today.

1. Rodgers and the Transfer Committee are locked in some obscure stand off when it comes to players.

2. Rodgers is willing to risk results by dropping and ignoring players that both he and and the Transfer Committee have signed.Players that have played well and are needed.
3. Despite the propagandaesque "we are a big happy family" team pictures, there is unrest in the squad.

4. Rodgers seems to be overcomplicating everything. WHY **** up the defence by dropping so many players that were helping our defense. This story about Can, that he's not ready for his philosophy of football. WTF?!?

Have I missed anything?

Chucky the tree · 15-12-2014 08:11PM

brevity wrote: »

So, to recap what we've learned today.

1. Rodgers and the Transfer Committee are locked in some obscure stand off when it comes to players.

2. Rodgers is willing to risk results by dropping and ignoring players that both he and and the Transfer Committee have signed.Players that have played well and are needed.
3. Despite the propagandaesque "we are a big happy family" team pictures, there is unrest in the squad.

4. Rodgers seems to be overcomplicating everything. WHY **** up the defence by dropping so many players that were helping our defense. This story about Can, that he's not ready for his philosophy of football. WTF?!?

Have I missed anything?

Isn't he a defensive midfielder? Maybe the problem is that Can has a philosophy of defending and that's the problem.

outsourced_ire · 15-12-2014 08:12PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Isn't he a defensive midfielder? Maybe the problem is that Can has a philosophy of defending and that's the problem.

He'd rather destroy Gerrard in the DM role instead

brevity · 15-12-2014 08:32PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Isn't he a defensive midfielder? Maybe the problem is that Can has a philosophy of defending and that's the problem.

Hah! Could be. As far as I know Can is a "box to box" midfielder.

5live · 15-12-2014 08:42PM

brevity wrote: »

Hah! Could be. As far as I know Can is a "box to box" midfielder.

He has played as a CB in under age internationals for Germany and LB also iirc.

Turtyturd · 15-12-2014 08:42PM

brevity wrote: »

So, to recap what we've learned today.

1. Rodgers and the Transfer Committee are locked in some obscure stand off when it comes to players.

2. Rodgers is willing to risk results by dropping and ignoring players that both he and and the Transfer Committee have signed.Players that have played well and are needed.
3. Despite the propagandaesque "we are a big happy family" team pictures, there is unrest in the squad.

4. Rodgers seems to be overcomplicating everything. WHY **** up the defence by dropping so many players that were helping our defense. This story about Can, that he's not ready for his philosophy of football. WTF?!?

Have I missed anything?

Point 1 and 2 have been obvious for a long time.

On the philosophy thing, he has changed it 3 times in 3 years, Can has no chance of adapting to it.

brevity · 15-12-2014 08:46PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Point 1 and 2 have been obvious for a long time.

On the philosophy thing, he has changed it 3 times in 3 years, Can has no chance of adapting to it.

I dunno, I'm a bit surprised that Rodgers would risk results by ignoring and dropping players. I could almost understand the Borini, but Jones over Mingolet?

I don't think Rodgers knows what his philosophy is anymore and thats part of the problem.

5live · 15-12-2014 08:48PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Point 1 and 2 have been obvious for a long time.

On the philosophy thing, he has changed it 3 times in 3 years, Can has no chance of adapting to it.

Can looks to have it all for the position, reading, pace, strength and ability to pass.

Hangballlouie · 15-12-2014 08:50PM

5live wrote: »

Can looks to have it all for the position, reading, pace, strength and ability to pass.

And when he has played he has looked one of our best players!

Agent Coulson · 15-12-2014 08:50PM

brevity wrote: »

I don't think Rodgers knows what his philosophy is anymore and thats part of the problem.

By all accounts his philosophy at Watford amd Reading was closer to Mourinho's than the Barca way he picked up at Swansea.

The philosophy he has right now seems like a very bad mix of both of them and he doesn't know which one to go with.

Gits_bone · 15-12-2014 08:52PM

5live wrote: »

Can looks to have it all for the position, reading, pace, strength and ability to pass.

Therefore no chance of adapting to it. :pac:

Agent Coulson · 15-12-2014 08:59PM

Can also needs first team games to get his fitness levels up to speed where he can last 90 minutes.

Playing him for 60 minutes once every 7/8 games isn't doing him or the team any favours.

5starpool · 15-12-2014 08:59PM

5live wrote: »

Can looks to have it all for the position, reading, pace, strength and ability to pass.

And the less he plays the better he'll become!

On Jones, I remember a couple of weeks ago there was calls by several people in here for him to come in ahead of Mignolet. I'm half tempted (but too lazy) to go back and see if any of those have expressed any opinions since yesterday on the outcome of that decision.

Turtyturd · 15-12-2014 09:02PM

He stumbled into a philosophy already in place at Swansea.

Agent Coulson · 15-12-2014 09:04PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

He stumbled into a philosophy already in place at Swansea.

The man he took over from at Swansea was manager of Basel.

I was surprised that wasn't played out in the press more to be honest.

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

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