Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

Gbear

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Oh dry your eyes. He's a big personality manager who loves to talk to the media and discuss his philosophies and outlook on the game in detail. Such a manager will be loved and hated. Managers live and die by results, and if he consistently loses football matches and consistently makes poor signings he'll lose his job. The club is a lot bigger than Brendan Rodgers.



Regarding the supposedly "mixed" record of Benitez:

2012 / 13: 3rd in Premier League; Europa League Winners
2013 / 14: 3rd in Seria A; Coppa Italia Winners

Pretty solid.

And the failure at Inter. And the failure to get into the CL this season.

Getting 3rd in that league with that team is the minimum that you'd expect. This season they've been very flaky.

Part of me would love to have him back because I don't think he deserved to be treated the way he was but he hasn't been pulling up trees since and I don't think we'd be better off this season.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

We have less points than Hodgson gained over the same stretch of games. Everyone agreed Hodgson needed to be moved on however and we just needed someone else in to steady the ship - that there was no point having a man in charge over a transfer window when the owners wouldn't back him in same.

A huge part of Hodgson's loss of popularity was down to his apparent contempt for the club, it's values and the fans.

At worst, Rodgers is just bad at his job.
Like I said, I don't even want to argue that Rodgers should be supported, but there's a difference between withdrawing support and putting the boot in.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

At the end of the day, sometimes you have to pull the trigger. We're doing poorly in the league; we're out of the CL; performances have been awful and basic errors show no signs of improvement; the more he invests in the squad the worse it seems to be.

I don't know what the long term manager answer is, but once you stop thinking Rodgers is capable of improving the situation he must go.

Incorrect. You need to plan what to do after he goes. And it can't just be "**** it, stick Colin Pascoe in".
This isn't a uniquely Liverpool problem - sacking the manager without thought for what comes after is endemic in football.
I can understand it if his position becomes untenable for non-football reasons (like Malky Mckay or something).

The desperation bollocks relegation fodder get up to usually doesn't work. And when they just about get away with it, it doesn't have the staying power.

We're bad, ergo sack Rodgers isn't a good plan. It's just a knee jerk.

If we're sacking Rodgers tomorrow we need to have been planning who he's going to be replaced with for months.

ASOT

It actually breaks my heart that Lacazette scored another two at the weekend, would have been having a field day for us with some of the chances sterling etc has been misssing.

MD1990

We should give Rodgers until the end of the season he deserves that. If things don't improve like they did in 12/13 we should look for a new manager. I would be targetting.

- Klopp
- Rudi Garcia
- Frank De Boer
- Conte
- Benitez
- Montella
- Rjikaard

klose

We got besiktas in the draw for the europa league if anyone cares :pac:

Lord Trollington

Nothing but a win against Arsenal in my opinion is acceptable. A loss there and 4th is without doubt out of our reach and Rodgers will probably deserve to be removed.

And it pains me to say that as I am a big Rodgers fan, Him being Irish I wanted LFC to do well as much for him as I did for the club and the fans.

4th is wide open. It's between us, spurs and Arsenal. West Ham should fall off soon and Southampton already have begun to. Question is can we put some sort of run together to mount a challenge for 4th.

Arsenal Home
Burnley Away
Swansea Home
Leicester Home.

12 points from above is a must all before Jan 2nd

5starpool

Gbear wrote: »

And the failure at Inter. And the failure to get into the CL this season.

Getting 3rd in that league with that team is the minimum that you'd expect. This season they've been very flaky.

Part of me would love to have him back because I don't think he deserved to be treated the way he was but he hasn't been pulling up trees since and I don't think we'd be better off this season.



A huge part of Hodgson's loss of popularity was down to his apparent contempt for the club, it's values and the fans.

At worst, Rodgers is just bad at his job.
Like I said, I don't even want to argue that Rodgers should be supported, but there's a difference between withdrawing support and putting the boot in.



Incorrect. You need to plan what to do after he goes. And it can't just be "**** it, stick Colin Pascoe in".
This isn't a uniquely Liverpool problem - sacking the manager without thought for what comes after is endemic in football.
I can understand it if his position becomes untenable for non-football reasons (like Malky Mckay or something).

The desperation bollocks relegation fodder get up to usually doesn't work. And when they just about get away with it, it doesn't have the staying power.

We're bad, ergo sack Rodgers isn't a good plan. It's just a knee jerk.

If we're sacking Rodgers tomorrow we need to have been planning who he's going to be replaced with for months.

I agree with all of this (except the Inter line - that's more complex than just saying he flopped).

Gbear

5starpool wrote: »

I agree with all of this (except the Inter line - that's more complex than just saying he flopped).

I think the biggest criticism there was getting back into management too quickly.

It was a hiding to nothing and he didn't have the control he wanted.

I just felt like it wasn't fair to ignore it if you're talking about his recent record.

Magico Gonzalez

Benitez would not get Liverpool to a where we want to be.

As much as Rogers was totally reliant on Suarez and to an extent Sturridge last season he was utterly reliant on Gerrard and Torres. His record in the transfer market at Liverpool was not great either.

His best days are behind him. As i see it we have 2 options.

1. Stick with Rogers and sack off the season. Do it on the basis that we have some support come in and de-centralise the decision making - especially around transfers. I cannot see Rogers accepting that.

2. Cut him at the end of the season, Klopp is the only coach I could get excited about in that list.

The squad is littered with average players who lived off the success of Suarez and Sturridge last year. Gerrard is a busted flush and needs to be an impact sub, it's only going to get worse.

Ferguson's genius was his lack of sentimentality, when it was time, players went.

5starpool

The away leg of the Besiktas tie takes place either 3 days before our tie with Man City or 3 days before we play in the league cup final. Not ideal prep either way, but shouldn't be used as an excuse not to try to win the bloody thing.

gafferino

klose wrote: »

We got besiktas in the draw for the europa league if anyone cares :pac:

Last time we played them we lost 2-1 away and won 8-0 at home

Gits_bone

Agent Coulson wrote: »

So you want Pardew as manager with a strike force of Robbie Keane and Jordan Rhodes.

I think I can see what you are at and where you are coming from.

Show me where I want a strikeforce of Keane and Rhodes. What else will you make up?

Robbie Keane would score more goals than Balotelli in this team I am certain.

Augmerson

We won't beat Besiktas.

We don't look like we have the beating of anyone these days.

klose

Magico Gonzalez wrote: »

Benitez would not get Liverpool to a where we want to be.

As much as Rogers was totally reliant on Suarez and to an extent Sturridge last season he was utterly reliant on Gerrard and Torres. His record in the transfer market at Liverpool was not great either.

His best days are behind him. As i see it we have 2 options.

1. Stick with Rogers and sack off the season. Do it on the basis that we have some support come in and de-centralise the decision making - especially around transfers. I cannot see Rogers accepting that.

2. Cut him at the end of the season, Klopp is the only coach I could get excited about in that list.

The squad is littered with average players who lived off the success of Suarez and Sturridge last year. Gerrard is a busted flush and needs to be an impact sub, it's only going to get worse.

Ferguson's genius was his lack of sentimentality, when it was time, players went.

The squad is littered with huge potential and players at the right age to build a solid squad out of rodgers however seems hellbent on using the old guard who should have been moved on some time ago. Tell johnson/enrique/ skrtel/lovren/mignolet/jones to go find new clubs, there time here for me anyways should be coming to an end. Id tell gerrard to accept he will not be a guaranteed starter. Build a team around the likes or moreno/manquillo/sakho/can/markovic/sterling and sturridge. I agree with lloyds post yesterday where he said the club needs a top class keeper, a good inderstudy. A defensive mid whod be an upgrade on lucas and one more quality pacey striker. Theres plenty of player to fill out the squad with them

Magico Gonzalez

Benitez transfers in (only those over 5m to guage the impact of his big money signings. Basically pretty good, then for reasons I cannot fathom in 2008 he tied a noose around his neck with the signings of Keane and Aquilani. Johnson was at one stage a good player for us so we can't complain, Dossena wasn't great and Riera wasn't much use either.

Actually up to that point his record was fairly good. Morientes never really worked out, nor did Babel, but there are some players in there who would walk into today's team (Mascherano, Torres, Alonso), even Dirk Kuyt would be an upgrade on Balotelli (never wanted him or rated him) and the plodding Lambert ´n Butler.

I take it back, but I still wouldn't want Rafa back.

Xabi Alonso
Real Sociedad £10,700,000 20 August 2004
Luis Garcia
Barcelona £6,000,000 20 August 2004

Fernando Morientes
Real Madrid £6,300,000 13 January 2005


Pepe Reina
Villarreal £6,000,000 4 July 2005

Momo Sissoko
Valencia £5,600,000 14 July 2005
Peter Crouch
Southampton £7,000,000 20 July 2005







Daniel Agger
Brondby £5,800,000 12 January 2006

Craig Bellamy
Blackburn £6,000,000 1 July 2006


Jermaine Pennant
Birmingham £6,700,000 26 July 2006
Dirk Kuyt
Feyenoord £9,000,000 18 August 2006







Lucas
Gremio £5,000,000 11 May 2007



Fernando Torres
Atletico Madrid £20,200,000 4 July 2007

Yossi Benayoun
West Ham £5,000,000 12 July 2007
Ryan Babel
Ajax £11,500,000 13 July 2007



Martin Skrtel
Zenit St Petersburg £6,500,000 11 January 2008
Javier Mascherano
Media Sports Investment £18,600,000 29 February 2008

Andrea Dossena
Udinese £7,000,000 4 July 2008


Robbie Keane
Tottenham £19,000,000 28 July 2008
Albert Riera
Espanyol £8,000,000 31 August 2008
Glen Johnson
Portsmouth £17,500,000 26 June 2009
Alberto Aquilani
Roma £17,100,000 7 August 2009

pmy.murphy

Gits_bone wrote: »

Show me where I want a strikeforce of Keane and Rhodes. What else will you make up?

Robbie Keane would score more goals than Balotelli in this team I am certain.

Very ambitious signings there I have to say, why not get relegated to the Championship altogether too

JohnDaniels

Just on Suarez/Barcelona. I think he'll be successful for them to a point as he has too much talent for it not to shine through but he's a players whose best game is built around chaos. It's the antithesis of how Barcelona play. Having seem him play a couple of times he looks constricted in his movement which isn't surprising considering he now has to fit into a very structured playing style at Barcelona.

Messi/Neymar are already ahead of him in the pecking order which means he's playing third fiddle to a large degree having to sacrifice much of his explosive, creative freedom he enjoyed at other clubs. He'll win loads of stuff no doubt but I wonder at what personal cost. Madrid probably would have suited him better as a player although he exerts such influence when the main man that a team created purely for him still maximises his talent.

I think it's a wider interesting question with the big two in Spain sucking up all the very top tier talent in the world.

Agent Coulson

Gits_bone wrote: »

Show me where I want a strikeforce of Keane and Rhodes. What else will you make up?

Robbie Keane would score more goals than Balotelli in this team I am certain.

There you go.

Gits_bone wrote: »

Jordan Rhodes worth a gamble anyone? Would always sell him on if it didn't work...

Jordan Rhodes here

Gits_bone wrote: »

Robbie Keane would be a shrewd signing until Origi comes back.

Robbie Keane here.



.

Magico Gonzalez

klose wrote: »

The squad is littered with huge potential and players at the right age to build a solid squad out of rodgers however seems hellbent on using the old guard who should have been moved on some time ago. Tell johnson/enrique/ skrtel/lovren/mignolet/jones to go find new clubs, there time here for me anyways should be coming to an end. Id tell gerrard to accept he will not be a guaranteed starter. Build a team around the likes or moreno/manquillo/sakho/can/markovic/sterling and sturridge. I agree with lloyds post yesterday where he said the club needs a top class keeper, a good inderstudy. A defensive mid whod be an upgrade on lucas and one more quality pacey striker. Theres plenty of player to fill out the squad with them

I'd agree except for Lovren and Skrtel. Lovren has great ability if we would put a system in place which gives him cover. Mignolet and his decision making has destabilised everything and the mf offer little protection unless Lucas has a good day. All our Cbs have looked shakey in this team and I have to think it is a systemic issue rather than we have got 4 poor defenders.

Gits_bone

Agent Coulson wrote: »

There you go.



Jordan Rhodes here



Robbie Keane here.



.

Yeah but I missed the post where I say I want them as our strikeforce with Pardew managing them..

Or are you going to continue combining every post I've made?

Next thing you'll be saying I want Ray D'arcy signed aswell.

kingshankly

if Rodgers persists with Jones he is out the door hilarious watching him yesterday jumping out of the way for the first goal

J Mysterio

Having slept on it and thinking about it today, i'm even more incredulous on that team selection yesterday.

I just can't get over Mignolet being dropped 'indefinately' and ****ing Brad Jones installed as no.1. I just can't get over it.

Look at the highlights again from the game yesterday. The first goal would actually be hilarious if it wasnt so tragic - Jones actually dives the wrong way before Rooney shoots. If he had actually stayed in his feet he should have had time to dive and catch it as it was hardly a rasper and was to the middle of the right side of the goal. What keeper does that when its not a penalty? Wtf?

The third goal was a total laugh too.

This is really just the worst decision ever. What the **** is Rodgers doing? He's lost his mind. 'It's all Mignolet's fault'.

Timmyctc

kingshankly wrote: »

if Rodgers persists with Jones he is out the door hilarious watching him yesterday jumping out of the way for the first goal

In Fairness he was absolutely shocking for the 3rd goal. 1st was bad but Mata didn't even convincingly sell his dummy for 3rd yet Jones was already committing himself to the "save"

Magico Gonzalez

I don't hear him saying anything about making mistakes, sheltering the players etc. He seems a bit too keen to throw players under the bus and protect his own ego.

Gits_bone

J Mysterio wrote: »

Having slept on it and thinking about it today, i'm even more incredulous on that team selection yesterday.

I just can't get over Mignolet being dropped 'indefinately' and ****ing Brad Jones installed as no.1. I just can't get over it.

Look at the highlights again from the game yesterday. The first goal would actually be hilarious if it wasnt so tragic - Jones actually dives the wrong way before Rooney shoots. If he had actually stayed in his feet he should have had time to dive and catch it as it was hardly a rasper and was to the middle of the right side of the goal. What keeper does that when its not a penalty? Wtf?

The third goal was a total laugh too.

This is really just the worst decision ever. What the **** is Rodgers doing? He's lost his mind. 'It's all Mignolet's fault'.

3rd goal was the most embarrassing piece of goalkeeping I've seen in a long while.

It was even a shot fake by Mata, just a disguised pass.

magma69

The only saving grace is that Arsenal have been dropping lots of points this season also. Most other seasons gone by and Liverpool's season would effectively been written off. 4th is still within grasp if the team gets their shít together after Xmas. That means getting in an effective striker.

If the form continues the way it has been so far this season, giving Rodgers the chop in May wouldn't be a rash decision imo.

JohnDaniels

I'm not crisitising it specifically but I do find it odd that Rodgers spent a good deal of time talking about his youth coaching background and we as fans were sold someone who would do huge amounts to develop grass roots talent from within the club. Who has really got a chance? Sterling was already introduced under Kenny. Flanagan was forced upon him due to lack of options but admittedly worked out well. Beyond that first season the academy players have hardly had a look in. It wouldn't matter if he was winning football matches as that is ultimately his main priority but at the moment his position means all areas are under the microscope. Specific reasons for this can of course explain why we have had a lack of youth involvement but it's just another facet on which I feel he's failing no matter the reasons behind it.

J Mysterio

magma69 wrote: »

The only saving grace is that Arsenal have been dropping lots of points this season also. Most other seasons gone by and Liverpool's season would effectively been written off. 4th is still within grasp if the team gets their shít together after Xmas. That means getting in an effective striker.

If the form continues the way it has been so far this season, giving Rodgers the chop in May wouldn't be a rash decision imo.

No... Now we need a striker and a keeper. Whatever confidence Mignolet may have had has been thrown of a mountain, driven over and then smashed with rocks. I'll be amazed if Origi does not arrive in January.

Gits_bone

J Mysterio wrote: »

No... Now we need a striker and a keeper. Whatever confidence Mignolet may have had has been thrown of a mountain, driven over and then smashed with rocks. I'll be amazed if Origi does not arrive in January.

He got booed by his own fans recently I think.
Hasn't scored in near 1000 minutes.

Magico Gonzalez

4th place would be nothing short of miraculous to be honest.

We have problems defensively, in midfield and up front. We'd need one hell of a transfer window to be in with the smallest chance.

Don't see it, sadly.

Daemonic

Gits_bone wrote: »

Yeah but I missed the post where I say I want them as our strikeforce with Pardew managing them..

Or are you going to continue combining every post I've made?

Next thing you'll be saying I want Ray D'arcy signed aswell.

I'm sure he left the Pardew bit out to save you further embarassment.