Breastfeeding in Public places

ash23 · 03-12-2014 04:36PM

kylith wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't find it offensive. They're only body parts. Everyone has either one or the other, I've encountered them in person and I don't see why a picture of them would be any more offensive.

Even assuming that one did find them offensive you can hardly equate a nipple, which is essentially a differently coloured bit of skin with a mucus, urine, or feces producing body part. And that still wouldn't explain why men's nipples are ok and women's aren't.

ETA: I apologise if it seems that I'm getting at you, I am just honestly trying to understand why people might find a breastfeeding woman offensive in any way, even if you can see her nipple. I just, honestly, cannot wrap my head around it.

I can't pinpoint why. It just makes me uncomfortable. I'm not offended by it. I've seen it all at this stage. I think nothing of being half naked at home or wandering around in the nip in the comfort of my own home. I just think that certain places require more decorum than others and that should be respected. What you might do at home isn't necessarily what you should do in public.

I just disagree with the idea that a breastfeeding woman is totally off limits in terms of trying to minimise the amount of boob on show when feeding?

Again I'm not talking about women who at least try to be discreet when feeding. It's the extremists who think that they're beyond reproach because they're breastfeeding that I have a problem with. We're all naked naturally. Doesn't mean modesty is out the window though.

When I breastfed I didn't think I was exempt from being considerate of other people so I tried to keep exposure to the minimum. I don't really think that is too much to be asked of breastfeeding woman.

hoodwinked · 03-12-2014 04:39PM

all it takes is a bit of discretion but that seem's to be lost amongst those trying to make a point,

i managed to breastfeed my child without pulling my boobs out everywhere i went, yes it was a bit of hassle trying to organise which shopping center/restaurants had breast feeding rooms...when and where i could go out...etc but here i am 5 years later and not once was i asked to "put them away" because i was organised and discreet about it!

it was no more constricting me than when i was potty training my child, and had to vet which shopping center/restaurants i went to that had a toilet she could use, (a vast lack of bathrooms in cork city center meant i didn't see the city center for those weeks) but i knew it would not be ok to whip out her potty in the middle of the street/restaurant/shopping center and let her use it, so i just didn't go there or checked they had the facilities we needed!

these are the trials and tribulations of being a parent, and if you can't organise yourself properly thats no reason to dis-regard discretion! these days it seems to be more like people's attitudes are heading in the direction of "it's my right to walk around naked if i want to and if you don't like it thats your problem"

Breast feeding by all means should be encouraged, and it wouldn't bother me seeing it but like everything else in life, use a bit of common sense and don't just whip out your boobs in plain sight of men, women and children!

ToTriOrNot · 03-12-2014 04:47PM

hoodwinked wrote: »

Breast feeding by all means should be encouraged, and it wouldn't bother me seeing it but like everything else in life, use a bit of common sense and don't just whip out your boobs in plain sight of men, women and children!

People need to see breastfeeding as the natural thing it is in order for it to become the norm rather than the exception. When I fed my first, I remembers my inlaws clearing whichever room I was ...it didn't bother me, I was usually left alone in the most comfy room in the house. they weren't use to breastfeeding. Came my second, they didn't bat an eyelid, why? they were used to it.....For something to become normal, people have to be exposed to it!!!

eviltwin · 03-12-2014 04:47PM

ash23 wrote: »

I can't pinpoint why. It just makes me uncomfortable. I'm not offended by it. I've seen it all at this stage. I think nothing of being half naked at home or wandering around in the nip in the comfort of my own home. I just think that certain places require more decorum than others and that should be respected. What you might do at home isn't necessarily what you should do in public.

I just disagree with the idea that a breastfeeding woman is totally off limits in terms of trying to minimise the amount of boob on show when feeding?

Again I'm not talking about women who at least try to be discreet when feeding. It's the extremists who think that they're beyond reproach because they're breastfeeding that I have a problem with. We're all naked naturally. Doesn't mean modesty is out the window though.

When I breastfed I didn't think I was exempt from being considerate of other people so I tried to keep exposure to the minimum. I don't really think that is too much to be asked of breastfeeding woman.

Actually shocked you are a breastfeeding mother yourself with your attitude. The pictures you posted didn't appear on your feed because the link you posted was from google. If you happen to see something you don't like you ignore right? You scroll on by, you don't have to go out of your way to be outraged. Its not like these women get their boobs out and make a fuss so everyone sees, they are discreet and doing it for a reason, their child needs food. Crying children are a lot more of a pain than a flash of breast.

Shrap · 03-12-2014 04:48PM

ash23 wrote: »

Again I'm not talking about women who at least try to be discreet when feeding. It's the extremists who think that they're beyond reproach because they're breastfeeding that I have a problem with. We're all naked naturally. Doesn't mean modesty is out the window though.

I have never once been, nor have ever seen a woman being indiscreet about breast feeding. Not once have I "whipped out my boobs" in a big show of "it's my right as a mother and a woman", and I know of nobody who's ever seen or heard of this attention seeking breastfeeding. I'd be surprised to find it existed at all.

Also, we don't need to think of breast feeding as immodest, still less that mothers who breastfeed in public are "extremists" if they don't use a shawl. I honestly don't understand your discomfort about it, sorry.

volchitsa · 03-12-2014 04:48PM

Don Kedick wrote: »

Masterbating is one of the most natural things in the world but you don't see me doing it in public. Unless women are looking at me through their windows the big perverts.

Jesus. You think a baby being fed is equivalent to you masturbating in public? You do know it's eating, not having sex with its mother, don't you?
You have a sick mind.

As for the point about breastfeeding women being "militant" about it, I would suggest that is because only the most militant ones would put up with the sort of hyper sexualized attitude posters like the one above have. The less determined ones bottle feed, it makes life easier for them. Even though it would be in the baby's interests if that were not the case.

And then Ireland likes to represent itself as "pro-life"! Right - first forced pregnancy and then you have to live like a hermit in case you get criticized for unwittingly exciting men. Why don't these women just wear a burka, while they're at it.

dubstarr · 03-12-2014 04:49PM

Mary63 wrote: »

I think the hotel were totally correct and they should firm up on the unruly children misbehaving too.
Why should my nice quiet sunday lunch be spoiled by screaming children expected to sit too long,who takes a two year old to a restaurant at lunchtime and orders wine which they sip and enjoy while other peoples lunches are spoiled by loud brats who should be on the swings in a playground.

Staff then say nothing because they dont want to cause offence,its just so bad for business.

Staff cant say anything to you its against the law to ask a woman to stop breastfeeding.

The Equality Act 2010 says that it is sex discrimination to treat a woman unfavourably because she is breastfeeding and it applies to anyone providing services, benefits, facilities and premises to the public, public bodies, further and higher education bodies and association. So this includes parks, sports and leisure facilities, public buildings and when using public transport such as buses, trains and planes. You are protected in shops, restaurants, cafes and hotels regardless of how big of small. You are also protected in places like hospitals, theatres, cinemas and petrol stations.

eviltwin · 03-12-2014 04:49PM

hoodwinked wrote: »

all it takes is a bit of discretion but that seem's to be lost amongst those trying to make a point,

i managed to breastfeed my child without pulling my boobs out everywhere i went, yes it was a bit of hassle trying to organise which shopping center/restaurants had breast feeding rooms...when and where i could go out...etc but here i am 5 years later and not once was i asked to "put them away" because i was organised and discreet about it!

it was no more constricting me than when i was potty training my child, and had to vet which shopping center/restaurants i went to that had a toilet she could use, (a vast lack of bathrooms in cork city center meant i didn't see the city center for those weeks) but i knew it would not be ok to whip out her potty in the middle of the street/restaurant/shopping center and let her use it, so i just didn't go there or checked they had the facilities we needed!

these are the trials and tribulations of being a parent, and if you can't organise yourself properly thats no reason to dis-regard discretion! these days it seems to be more like people's attitudes are heading in the direction of "it's my right to walk around naked if i want to and if you don't like it thats your problem"

Breast feeding by all means should be encouraged, and it wouldn't bother me seeing it but like everything else in life, use a bit of common sense and don't just whip out your boobs in plain sight of men, women and children!

The woman at the centre of this story which inspired the thread wasn't whipping her boobs out as you put it. Have you looked at the photo? You'd never know the child was feeding.

Breffnigolfer · 03-12-2014 04:49PM

Why are people getting into a tizzy about an incident in a foreign country?

jezzer · 03-12-2014 04:49PM

i dont understand, why do women want to whip out their boobs in public?

Shrap · 03-12-2014 04:52PM

jezzer wrote: »

i dont understand, why do women want to whip out their boobs in public?

You're same lad equating breastfeeding with whipping out your penis in public, amirite? Again, I'll keep it simple for you. Babies get hungry and can't be kept waiting till they get home. There. Ok?

volchitsa · 03-12-2014 04:53PM

jezzer wrote: »

i dont understand, why do women want to whip out their boobs in public?

Do you mean in general, or when they need to feed a baby with them?

hoodwinked · 03-12-2014 04:53PM

ToTriOrNot wrote: »

People need to see breastfeeding as the natural thing it is in order for it to become the norm rather than the exception. When I fed my first, I remembers my inlaws clearing whichever room I was ...it didn't bother me, I was usually left alone in the most comfy room in the house. they weren't use to breastfeeding. Came my second, they didn't bat an eyelid, why? they were used to it.....For something to become normal, people have to be exposed to it!!!

no they don't,

i never saw anyone breastfeeding, i was bottle fed, so were my siblings, my parents...etc

it was the information given to me by the maternity hospital that led me to deciding to try to breastfeed, and there is plenty of persuasion there to change your mind from the nurses if you don't decide to breast feed,

that information is in the right place, a maternity hospital with expectant mum's, not in a shopping center/restaurant with pensioners, child-less people, children, adults...etc

eviltwin wrote: »

The woman at the centre of this story which inspired the thread wasn't whipping her boobs out as you put it. Have you looked at the photo? You'd never know the child was feeding.

yes i have and i know, she used discretion, but the replies on here is what i was referring to. again though she was in a 5 star hotel with common sense applied we all know these are haughty places where i would feel i'd get in trouble with just wearing jeans in there,and still even with her using discretion she could have organised not to go there until she a: checked out their policies or b: could attend without needing to feed....

eviltwin · 03-12-2014 04:56PM

hoodwinked wrote: »

no they don't,

i never saw anyone breastfeeding, i was bottle fed, so were my siblings, my parents...etc

it was the information given to me by the maternity hospital that led me to deciding to try to breastfeed, and there is plenty of persuasion there to change your mind from the nurses if you don't decide to breast feed,

that information is in the right place, a maternity hospital with expectant mum's, not in a shopping center/restaurant with pensioners, child-less people, children, adults...etc

So what do you do when you come home from hospital then and need to feed your child on the go. Part of our problem is we don't see breasts being used for feeding which is their primary purpose. You can walk into any large newsagents in town and see adult magazines with women posing in bras and skimpy tops and no one gets offended but a baby feeding upsets people. I don't get it myself. I don't understand why people are so freaked out by it.

03-12-2014 04:56PM

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

If you know you're going to a restaurant why not just express some milk into a bottle and bring it with you?

Mary63 wrote: »

Surely you could organise a babysitter and leave your baby and some expressed milk at home.

anonyanony wrote: »

Do you no express milk so the father can bottle feed the baby sometimes and bond with the child?

Nice in theory. Some babies absolutely do _not_ take to bottles though so it simply is not an option.

And that is just from the POV of the baby. For many women it does not work either due to production levels and latching mechanics. For some the latching and "feeding" mechanism simply does not work. For others the amount of milk they produce is only just what is required - so there is no means by which to express more or stock pile in advance between feeds.

Expressing is a luxury option for women that - for numerous reasons - is simply not available to them.

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I can see both sides of the argument

I fail to I am afraid.

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

some women make a point of being as obvious as possible

If you say so - but I have to admit the number of times I have ever experienced such women is - precisely - zero.

Fuzzytrooper wrote: »

if it is going to cause offense then I think it's not unreasonable to ask the mother to use something to cover up a bit.

Not so sure I agree. People do not have a magical right to be protected against offence in general. Expecting X to modify behaviour automatically because Y might be offended does not parse as sensible to me as a general approach.

Take me for example. I cycle a lot. I have a natural - beyond my control - reaction to incredibly over weight people poured into those tight lyrca cycling outfits. It "offends" every fibre of my being to observe it. Yet if I go cycling I see it both on the cycle routes - and in the beer gardens or wherever I stop on those routes to eat and drink.

You know what I do? I realise the problem is mine - not theirs - and I simply look away. Problem solved. At no point has it _ever_ crossed my mind to think that somehow the person offensive to my eyes needs to modify their behaviour or dress to accommodate my distaste. I realise I am the one with the problem. Just me. My eyes are "fattist" and I can do nothing about it except build a bridge and deal with it and get over it.

The idea that I might ever ask _them_ to "cover up" or modify their dress - or that they have any obligation to oblige me if I did - is simply a nonsense to me. My overly sensitive issues are my problem - no one elses.

And my opinion on public breast feeding is - quite simply - identical. If it bothers someone - look away. Problem solved. I have been to plenty of restaurants - I barely notice the other people there at the best of times. I am engrossed in my meal and my company. So I am not even sure what these people are doing or thinking. "Oh god - so offended - must keep looking -otherwise - personal offence - not justified - how dare they compel me to look at - what I do not want to look at - by simply being there!"

ash23 wrote: »

I don't think it's too much to ask for a woman to cover up a bit while feeding.

They already do which is what many other people on threads like this keep forgetting. The VAST majority of the exposed breast is covered up. _By A Baby_.

As another user noted above there is more "breast" exposed in some outfits you see in dublin city on a Saturday night - than what is left exposed by a breast feeding woman sitting at a table.

Mary63 wrote: »

Breastfeeding in public with covering yourself also puts other women especially younger ones off breastfeeding

I can honestly say I have never met a single person fitting this analysis.

jezzer wrote: »

it can cause offence

So can a zillion other things. There is no shortage of people who find ways to get offended at something. If we stopped doing all things that "can cause" offence - what would be left?

Tell me something "can cause" offence therefore is basically white noise to my ears and I am left waiting to see what your point is.

jezzer wrote: »

not everyone wants to be in the vicinity of somebody getting their baps out

And why is it about what _they_ want exactly? I do not want to be in the vicinity of people chewing gum either. Puts me right off. Is this my problem? Or theirs?

WellThen? wrote: »

Why should i have to look at that while im eating my dinner.

Has anyone asked you to? No. No one. You make it sound like somehow they are not just feeding - but somehow compelling you and demanding you to look. Where are you getting this "have to" from?

After all you are in a restaurant eating in front of others. So is the baby. Big deal.

anncoates wrote: »

Maybe it's me, but I've also never seen a woman strip down to the waist, tits akimbo, when feeding a baby in public. You'd have to be lo looking pretty closely to see enough by which to be offended.

Exactly. That is whats baffling me - the way some people describe it you would imagine they are whipping them out in all directions - maybe doing the equivalent of a mammary-belly dance to get everything loosened up and well aired - before sticking it into the babies mouths in an across the room spiral approach method akin to "Here comes the airplane" spoon feeding of a toddler.

Yet what I have experienced in all the times I have ever observed it is a simple subtle - lift and attach - practised manoeuvre that even the most horny pervert desperate to get SOME sight of nipple would be left entirely disappointed by. So just once I would like to witness one of these innumerable women that these people are harping on about. Where do they be going that they see this? Tribal parts of africa where the natives still wear loin cloths??

Speaking of which - I personally find watching other peoples toddlers eating - with food spread across their face and up the sides of the head - a multitude more times more personally offensive and disgusting than breast feeding. There too I simply also stop looking. A rare and magical skill.

ash23 wrote: »

I wasn't saying that I personally have a problem with it but I was just pointing out that it's not true to say that a low cut top is the same as breastfeeding etc.

Do not think a single person has said they are the same. Rather they - and I -are pointing out that if mere breast exposure is the issue for some people - then many tops are actually exposing much more than is left exposed when a baby is actually on the breast.

Mary63 wrote: »

This modern thing of bringing brats everywhere is a pain.

So a beast fed baby is now a "brat" is it?

kylith wrote: »

I think that scientists need to study breasts in more detail. The obviously possess some kind of magnetic or gravitational force which compels people to stare at them.

I think the world of advertising is way ahead of you on that one

anonyanony wrote: »

you need to compromise and taking a noisy baby to some nice restaurant to annoy the other patrons is not a good option.

How did you get from breast feeding in public to noisy children. Do you think the two are synonyms somehow? Or did you just see this as a thread to vent an unrelated rant you had welling up inside about your sensitivity to noise?

The One Doctor · 03-12-2014 04:57PM

jezzer wrote: »

i dont understand, why do women want to whip out their boobs in public?

Because they want to feed their child. It's not rocket science.

Bottom line - preventing or obstructing a nursing mother from breastfeeding in public is illegal, regardless of the amount of boob on show.

It's interesting that the majority of "anti-breastfeeding in public" posters on this thread are women. I wonder why that is. I would have expected women to be supportive of breastfeeding mothers. Men on the other hand tend not to care, and I for once would look away if I saw a mother breastfeeding, out of respect for her privacy of what is a very intimate act between two people. It's bizarre that it's mostly women whinging about it.

LeinsterDub · 03-12-2014 04:57PM

ash23 wrote: »

On a beach....

I mean surely everyone thinks some level of modesty is necessary?

So you are OK with total lack of modesty while lying on a beach not OK with a decreased level of modesty while feeding a child ?

hoodwinked · 03-12-2014 05:01PM

eviltwin wrote: »

So what do you do when you come home from hospital then and need to feed your child on the go.

you do what you do when you are potty training them, when they are sick, when they are tired,

you choose where you go on it's suitability for your child!

if you know your child needs to be fed every 30 minutes, don't go there until the feeds have slowed down,

if your child is fed at 6pm and again at 12am, go for dinner at 6.30pm....

Shrap · 03-12-2014 05:01PM

hoodwinked wrote: »

that information is in the right place, a maternity hospital with expectant mum's, not in a shopping center/restaurant with pensioners, child-less people, children, adults...etc

Oh god, won't somebody think of the children?!

A lovely woman down the road from me, married to a proper muppet and his mother (she married straight out of the Magdalene Laundries I might add) used to visit me regularly, as did her children. They'd call in to play with the baby, and she'd come for a cuppa and bring them home. Anytime I had to feed the baby, mother would get terribly uncomfortable and say she was disturbing me and had to go. To her credit, she never shooed the children home or told them they couldn't be around when I breastfed.

One day, I put it to her that I'd only be a minute or two feeding and she wasn't disturbing me (by way of finding out what was going on) and she said Oh I'm sorry Shrap, my mother in law wouldn't let me breastfeed and I had to bottle feed them all. She said it wasn't right, and I'm sorry but I feel shamed by it. This is a true story

03-12-2014 05:02PM

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

Has anyone actually looked at the photos of this lady? You can barely notice she's breastfeeding without the massive napkin they made her use. With it, it's very obvious what she's doing. Aside from that, apparently nobody in the restaurant actually complained.

Why the fcuk shouldn't she breastfeed in public? It's not a sexual act, she's doing nothing wrong and tbh, you see just as much exposed breast on a walk down O'Connell Street.

And she's SOOOO upset that she can smile for photos? Attention seeker. Nothing wrong with breastfeeding in public as long as it's discreet. She was anything but. She should keep the sensitivities of others in mind and be a bit more considerate. It IS a natural act, as is defecating, peeing and giving birth. Doesn't mean that the general public want it done in front of them.

dubstarr · 03-12-2014 05:03PM

anonyanony wrote: »

Do you no express milk so the father can bottle feed the baby sometimes and bond with the child? Expressing milk so dad can feed the baby is a great way for them to bond.

Haha if this thread wasnt so crass it would be funny.Pumpkinseeds,anonyanony and Mary are talking through your hole.
I bf all my 5 kids and surprising i wasnt arrested for flashing.You can do it with dignity.

1.Your bra
2 a vest top so you can pull your top down a little bit..If you think a nipple is bad you dont want to see my flabby belly.
3.Dont forget the baby.4 no bottles no sterilising and no going through 10 differrent types of formalae to find which one suits the baby.
Also dads can bond wihtout bottles they just do other stuff like bathing and bedtime.

And finally that was some epic rant.:D:D:D

eviltwin · 03-12-2014 05:09PM

hoodwinked wrote: »

you do what you do when you are potty training them, when they are sick, when they are tired,

you choose where you go on it's suitability for your child!

if you know your child needs to be fed every 30 minutes, don't go there until the feeds have slowed down,

if your child is fed at 6pm and again at 12am, go for dinner at 6.30pm....

You pretty much use pants until they are secure enough to go themselves, at least that is what I did. It took months for my kids to be fully trained, staying home was not an option and if there was an odd accident or two then so what? There was never any outrage because my son had to have a wee behind a bush. Its not that big a deal. You have to live your life, you can't stay home just in case something like this happens. Are you really that shocked by the possibility that you may see a small bit of boob?

eviltwin · 03-12-2014 05:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

And she's SOOOO upset that she can smile for photos? Attention seeker. Nothing wrong with breastfeeding in public as long as it's discreet. She was anything but. She should keep the sensitivities of others in mind and be a bit more considerate. It IS a natural act, as is defecating, peeing and giving birth. Doesn't mean that the general public want it done in front of them.

What are you seeing that I am not

Her before photo doesn't show anything at all, if anything, the after pic with that stupid blanket makes it more obvious what she is doing.

The One Doctor · 03-12-2014 05:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It IS a natural act, as is defecating, peeing and giving birth. Doesn't mean that the general public want it done in front of them.

Two of the examples you've given are illegal in public. Breastfeeding in public is perfectly legal.

03-12-2014 05:17PM

eviltwin wrote: »

What are you seeing that I am not Her before photo doesn't show anything at all, if anything, the after pic with that stupid blanket makes it more obvious what she is doing.

I was looking at her face!

cyning · 03-12-2014 05:18PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And she's SOOOO upset that she can smile for photos? Attention seeker. Nothing wrong with breastfeeding in public as long as it's discreet. She was anything but. She should keep the sensitivities of others in mind and be a bit more considerate. It IS a natural act, as is defecating, peeing and giving birth. Doesn't mean that the general public want it done in front of them.

Defecating and peeing are normal, but things done in private. This woman wasn't changing a nappy at a table in the middle of a restaurant but feeding her child. And as for childbirth? If she went into labour I'd hope someone would have gotten her some help not told her she was being immodest and indecent!

She's doing the best by her child. She is doing nothing wrong. Some people need to cop on and realise the hotel acted illegally. It really shocks me how people still think there is something wrong with breastfeeding

03-12-2014 05:22PM

cyning wrote: »

Defecating and peeing are normal, but things done in private. This woman wasn't changing a nappy at a table in the middle of a restaurant but feeding her child. And as for childbirth? If she went into labour I'd hope someone would have gotten her some help not told her she was being immodest and indecent!

She's doing the best by her child. She is doing nothing wrong. Some people need to cop on and realise the hotel acted illegally. It really shocks me how people still think there is something wrong with breastfeeding

There is NOTHING wrong with breastfeeding. I've done it myself. What IS wrong is expecting others to be comfortable with it being done in their presence by total strangers. A little consideration for their (possible) unease would not go astray. From looking at the pictures of this mother, I don't think she was as upset as the article claims. I feel she's just seeking attention and has gotten it!

LeinsterDub · 03-12-2014 05:23PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There is NOTHING wrong with breastfeeding. I've done it myself. What IS wrong is expecting others to be comfortable with it being done in their presence by total strangers. A little consideration for their (possible) unease would not go astray. From looking at the pictures of this mother, I don't think she was as upset as the article claims. I feel she's just seeking attention and has gotten it!

Awe victim blaming a classic one that.

Irish Guitarist · 03-12-2014 05:23PM

I think people are missing the real issue here. Most restaurant owners don't like their customers bringing in their own food and drink. Sure, it's harmless enough when it's just some milk but then it escalates. How would you feel if you owned a restaurant and you saw your customers squeezing tea, coffee and scones from their nipples into each other mouths rather than purchasing them from your establishment?

jezzer · 03-12-2014 05:25PM

volchitsa wrote: »

Do you mean in general, or when they need to feed a baby with them?

Well in general, if you step down temple bar of a saturday night you wont go 5 minutes without some girl flashing her baps at you, in terms of breast feeding, its the same, why do they pull them out knowing anybody can see them?

Breastfeeding in Public places

Comments