Will homelessness ever end?

Graces7 · 02-12-2014 01:12PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

This is the problem: everyone thinks someone else should be repsonsible for solving things. In a lot of cases the family are the ones that put them on the street in the first place.

often because of drug or alcohol abuse and unless the person wants to change nothing can help him

BoJack Horseman · 02-12-2014 01:15PM

BBJBIG wrote: »

NAMA are busy selling the sh1t off to the forrein Vulture guys.
Foooook everyone else.

Soon - Oireland will not be owned by d'Oirish anymore.

The boom time Shysters did not want to build Social Housing ... or, found ways around it.
And even today, scum Landlords do not want to accept Rent Allowance.

What a Foooookin Circus is Oireland !!!

I'm afraid the protests do not go far enough in the roigh direction either in Oireland.
A Tall Tree and a very short Rope would be more suitable for the Traitors who
brought the country to its Knees ... and, continue to keep it on its Knees.

Some people need to be dispatched to meet Jesus much sooner than their
due arrival date.
Instead - in Oireland - we pay em at least 150,000 Shamrocks a year in Pensions.

I say - bring back the Rope.

Post of the day, a work of art.

BoJack Horseman · 02-12-2014 01:17PM

Graces7 wrote: »

My family work with the homeless in Canada where they total nearly three million actually living on the streets

There is no way in hell 1/12th of the Canadian population living on the streets.

That's like 100,000 Dubliners living on the street.

NoCrackHaving · 02-12-2014 01:27PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

There is no way in hell 1/12th of the Canadian population living on the streets.

That's like 100,000 Dubliners living on the street.

While it's unlikely to be that high, it's much worse than in Europe due to the idea of 'community care' in the late 80's and 90's and the policy of de-institutionalisation carried out in the US and Canada (in particular) whereby a lot of seriously ill people were turfed out of hospitals into the community without any support provided to them. A huge number sadly ended up homeless as a result.

seamus · 02-12-2014 02:03PM

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

There is no way in hell 1/12th of the Canadian population living on the streets.

That's like 100,000 Dubliners living on the street.

NoCrackHaving wrote: »

While it's unlikely to be that high, it's much worse than in Europe due to the idea of 'community care' in the late 80's and 90's and the policy of de-institutionalisation carried out in the US and Canada (in particular) whereby a lot of seriously ill people were turfed out of hospitals into the community without any support provided to them. A huge number sadly ended up homeless as a result.

It's an interesting topic to Google - it appears like Canada spends a lot more time and effort talking about their homeless problem than we do, yet it still seems to be far worse than ours.

Which is especially surprising when you consider how their weather so completely does not lend itself to sleeping rough.

That said, they have strange classifications for homelessness. Some counts include "at risk" people in the homeless figure - i.e. people who may be at risk of not paying next month's rent. Which IMO is basically fabricating figures.

Saipanne · 02-12-2014 02:04PM

The One Doctor wrote: »

Politicians do what's popular, not what's right, sadly.

Because voters vote in their own interest, not others.

DarkyHughes · 02-12-2014 02:06PM

If we had a Workers Republic it would end.

BoJack Horseman · 02-12-2014 02:08PM

DarkyHughes wrote: »

If we had a Workers Republic it would end.

Just 18 months to go.

Taoiseach Joe Higgins will right all ills.

yipeeeee · 02-12-2014 02:11PM

seamus wrote: »

It's an interesting topic to Google - it appears like Canada spends a lot more time and effort talking about their homeless problem than we do, yet it still seems to be far worse than ours.

Which is especially surprising when you consider how their weather so completely does not lend itself to sleeping rough.

That said, they have strange classifications for homelessness. Some counts include "at risk" people in the homeless figure - i.e. people who may be at risk of not paying next month's rent. Which IMO is basically fabricating figures.

Its the same here, there is 20,000 people homeless in Ireland according to some people on boards.

Iwasfrozen · 02-12-2014 02:24PM

DarkyHughes wrote: »

If we had a Workers Republic it would end.

anothernight · 02-12-2014 02:28PM

I don't know, in this man's case it seems like he was just refusing help. I'm not sure how that particular case is supposed to highlight the scarcity of emergency accommodation tbh.

He was a bit chaotic. He wasn’t easy to deal with. For instance, he once said he didn’t want to attend the health clinic because he thought he’d be ordered to stop drinking.

While he was encouraged to use emergency beds, some charity workers say he did not take up the offers

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/man-who-died-on-street-slept-rough-for-five-years-1.2022627

seamus · 02-12-2014 02:52PM

anothernight wrote: »

I don't know, in this man's case it seems like he was just refusing help. I'm not sure how that particular case is supposed to highlight the scarcity of emergency accommodation tbh.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/man-who-died-on-street-slept-rough-for-five-years-1.2022627

I guess people see, "Homeless man dies while sleeping rough" and assume it's because he had no choice but to sleep on the street.

Calls for more emergency accommodation and public summits won't solve the problem(s) that lead to this man's death.

I don't know if there's some kind of halfway house to this issue (pun intended). I stayed in a cheap hotel in the south of France for a night and one of the things which struck me was the ingenuity of the bathroom. It was basically a small "wet room", clearly constructed using a large carbon fibre mold. With the exception of a couple of fittings (mirrors, etc), it all seemed to be this one-piece thing that they slot into the corner of the room and hook up to drainage and water, and you're done. Quick, cheap and easy to clean.

We could make entire one-piece bedsits like this, bed and everything. One of the big problems with homeless shelters and emergency accommodation is the security of people and their belongings, and of course being able (or not) to use drink & drugs. So why not have individual emergency accommodation units. A person can go in at 10pm, doesn't matter how much drink or drugs they've taken or they have with them, and they get turfed out again at 10am. The door is locked behind them so they have security (though obviously they can leave at any time).
After they get turfed out, people can go in, take out any sheets, etc, take a powerhose to wash the place down and bingo-bango, ready for the next night.

If they drink themselves to death or OD, you know, sin é. Better there than on the streets. You could possibly even do it prison-style with peepholes for staff to have a quick check in through the night.

It doesn't solve the problem of people finding themselves without permanent accommodation and it certainly doesn't solve the issues of mental illness and substance abuse, but at the very least it provides the dignity of somewhere warm and safe to sleep and tries to keep people in "the system" as much as possible.

Sauve · 02-12-2014 03:30PM

I know you need housing rules and I know that a lot of homelessness is due to alcohol/drug dependency, but jesus the very basic notion of somewhere warm and dry to put your head at night should be there for every single member of any society. Despite what you do with the other 16 hours of your day.

/naive daydreaming

Ole Rodrigo · 02-12-2014 03:45PM

Dont know if anyone caught this article yesterday in the Guardian but its a fascinating story of an educated temporary workers struggle with homelessness.

There are so many factors you cant just say its drink and drugs, although they may become a problem but they are not necessarily a cause.

I am homeless. My worst days now are better than my best days working at Amazon.

According to Amazon’s metrics, I was one of their most productive order pickers – I was a machine, and my pace would accelerate throughout the course of a shift. What they didn’t know was that I stayed fast because if I slowed down for even a minute, I’d collapse from boredom and exhaustion.

During peak season, I trained incoming temps regularly. When that was over, I’d be an ordinary order picker once again, toiling in some remote corner of the warehouse, alone for 10 hours, with my every move being monitored by management on a computer screen.

Superb performance did not guarantee job security. ISS is the temp agency that provides warehouse labor for Amazon and they are at the center of the SCOTUS case Integrity Staffing Solutions vs. Busk. ISS could simply deactivate a worker’s badge and they would suddenly be out of work. They treated us like beggars because we needed their jobs. Even worse, more than two years later, all I see is: Jeff Bezos is hiring.

I have never felt more alone than when I was working there. I worked in isolation and lived under constant surveillance. Amazon could mandate overtime and I would have to comply with any schedule change they deemed necessary, and if there was not any work, they would send us home early without pay. I started to fall behind on my bills.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/nov/28/being-homeless-is-better-than-working-for-amazon

o1s1n · 02-12-2014 03:47PM

NIMAN wrote: »

Where are these people's family/relaties?

Had this guy who died not got any family? If he had, they should be ashamed of themselves,

Two years ago a childhood friend of mine was found frozen to death while sleeping rough on the streets during December. He was only 33. Was actually extremely shocking to be honest.

Thing is, his family were trying to help him at the time. He had mental health issues and really went off the rails, ended up using heroin. Which made trying to help him extremely difficult.

To hold families responsible really shows a level of ignorance to the large variety of situations which can lead to this happening. Every one of them is different.

ardle1 · 02-12-2014 03:55PM

Graces7 wrote: »

My family work with the homeless in Canada where they total nearly three million actually living on the streets and we lose many in winter

Many are drug addicts as this man seems to have been and they cannot be assimilated into hostels if they are drugged up and if they refuse rehab. Men especially quickly become habituated and cannot cope with a house etc.

We care for them where they are. Bales of hay save lives. We dont ask how or why

What do folk realisitically expect the govt to do? so much is what WE can do ourselves with a little human kindness They a re better at this in the US.. one lady I email makes sandwiches and stops on the way to work to chat to them and feed them...

scue typos,, cold day1

Eh, going by this post, Irelands doing a mighty fine job on the homeless situation.

yipeeeee · 02-12-2014 04:02PM

ardle1 wrote: »

Eh, going by this post, Irelands doing a mighty fine job on the homeless situation.

That's the thing they are.

But when someone refuses help and leaves accomodation like this man, what more can they do,?

02-12-2014 04:06PM

Some people can't be helped. That's not to say that we (family/"society") shouldn't try to help them but it's not always possible for positive outcomes.

Sq001 · 02-12-2014 04:07PM

Don't think homelessness will ever end, coz some people are homeless by choice through illness etc. but surely more can be done to give homeless people more help & shelter if they do want it especially in winter. More drug & alcohol treatment centres would probably help too...

yipeeeee · 02-12-2014 04:15PM

Sq001 wrote: »

Don't think homelessness will ever end, coz some people are homeless by choice through illness etc. but surely more can be done to give homeless people more help & shelter if they do want it especially in winter. More drug & alcohol treatment centres would probably help too...

There is hostels for each homeless person but a lot have rules which means they can't do drugs or drunk in them and this puts a lot of people off staying in them

El_Duderino 09 · 02-12-2014 04:20PM

It depends on the reason for homelessness.

Most homelessness people are homeless because they are incapable of living in a home. Living in a home includes concepts like securing an income (employment or benefits) and ensuring the income is greater or equal to expenditure. This includes calculating future expenses like electricity + gas, food, clothes etc. and deferring gratification to ensure you can cover those expenses.

The fact is that some people are incapable of carrying out those calculations and that results in their becoming homeless. Schizophrenia is highly correlated with homelessness can result in the kind of inability to maintain a home. Even when homeless hostels are provided to those people they are incapable of living in a communal home for the homeless.

So no. Homelessness will never end as there will always be people who are incapable of living in a home.

Wompa1 · 02-12-2014 07:00PM

Sclosages wrote: »

You sound like an a-hole, despite your best efforts.

If somebody refuses help. What would you propose?

Chucky the tree · 02-12-2014 07:06PM

It seems people are falling over themselves to offer sympathy and claim how sad it is that this homeless person died. Quite funny when threads about addicts in Dublin generally consisted of people wishing they'd be exterminated or left deserted on an island.

seachto7 · 02-12-2014 07:37PM

I'm sure they homeless would be glad of the Montague Hotel, in Emo, Co Laois.

To go all full on racist for a while, but it has to be thrown out there: how many non nationals do you see homeless? There are a few I know, but in general? How many asylum seekers end up on the streets?

SpaceTime · 02-12-2014 07:45PM

One concern I have having seen the Irish social welfare system second hand is that, while services exist, they're incredibly confusing and messy to access. The amount of unnecessary form filling, reapplying, delays, slow decisions etc could easily cause someone with no resources or support to end up homeless.

The system as it stands is best suited to people who are good at dealing with loopholes. So the smart person who can work the system gets everything while the person who is in most need ; maybe depressed, unable to read, has poor cognitive skills or maybe has other issues that prevent them accessing services just ends up on the street in a sleeping bag.

I think we've some diabolically badly designed systems.

lazeedaisy · 02-12-2014 07:45PM

I would love to help,

we have space and Spare room,

But I can never know where to go,

On another note,

We have a sibling who disappears for years on end, assumes the world owes them and always comes knocking for money, no more. We have no control over them and between seeing them they could be anywhere

Its easy to blame the family when ignorance cals,

Wompa1 · 02-12-2014 07:46PM

seachto7 wrote: »

I'm sure they homeless would be glad of the Montague Hotel, in Emo, Co Laois.

To go all full on racist for a while, but it has to be thrown out there: how many non nationals do you see homeless? There are a few I know, but in general? How many asylum seekers end up on the streets?

Not many I'd bet, alright but I think there's an equal moral obligation to take care of Asylum seekers...either that or don't let them come in, in the first place.

I'll say it again but the people that are homeless also need to want to be helped. If you get a hotel in Laois, do you think they'll flock down there? I'd bet a lot, still would not. If they have addictions that being fed in one location, they may be hesitant to leave.

John_Rambo · 02-12-2014 08:03PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It seems people are falling over themselves to offer sympathy and claim how sad it is that this homeless person died. Quite funny when threads about addicts in Dublin generally consisted of people wishing they'd be exterminated or left deserted on an island.

+ 1. Unbelievable. Where was this poor fella from?

lazeedaisy · 02-12-2014 09:04PM

Carlow

Why?

seachto7 · 02-12-2014 09:05PM

Wompa1 wrote: »

Not many I'd bet, alright but I think there's an equal moral obligation to take care of Asylum seekers...either that or don't let them come in, in the first place.

I'll say it again but the people that are homeless also need to want to be helped. If you get a hotel in Laois, do you think they'll flock down there? I'd bet a lot, still would not. If they have addictions that being fed in one location, they may be hesitant to leave.

Well, the poor guy who died was from Kilkenny, next door to Laois.

Will homelessness ever end?

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