Lad Culture

UCDVet · 01-12-2014 09:31PM

psinno wrote: »

I always thought what it ignored was that women are shamed for being sluts and men are shamed for not.

I'm not sure this is the result of a sexist culture. Rather, it's the result of biology.

When men and women have sex, the likely outcome is offspring. And, as much as I wish it wasn't this way; our biology makes this very unfair event. The man is only giving up some sperm. That's a trivial thing to do. The woman, if she gets pregnant, is many, many, many times more invested. Not only is pregnancy physically dangerous, it takes nine months and it quite unpleasant for most people. And then, she's got a child.

Now, our modern society has some things that try to balance this out a bit, but the truth is - it will never be balanced, because our biology is inherently unbalanced.

Imagine if you had to collect signatures from people on Grafton street. From the men, you just needed to get a signature. From the women, you needed to get a signature and a bank account number, explaining that there is a 1 in 100 chance you'd bill them 100 euro, each month, for the next 18 years.

It wouldn't be very impressive if you got a bunch of men to sign your paper.
It *would* be very impressive if you got a bunch of women to sign your paper.

You aren't giving them anything, but they are taking on an awful lot of risk.

Beyond that, making things even more unfair, is that STDs are not equally transmittable. If I (a man) have sex with a woman who has AIDS the odds of me catching it from her are significantly lower than the odds of that woman catching AIDS from me (if I have AIDS).

Clearly, sex is unfairly biased. That's just how we are built. And while modern laws (and science) try to adjust for this - there are *far* more single moms raising a child than single fathers. Even with birth control....many people can't seem to have sex without procreating.

Given that our biology is sexist, I'm not entirely sure our culture *shouldn't* be sexist. There are lots of other examples - like sports - where we acknowledge there are biological differences and have entirely different standards. I enjoy lifting weights - but I'm nothing special. But if I were a girl, I'd be an elite level weight lifter. But I'm NOT a girl, so I'm held to different standards. Not because society says so, but because nature did.

UCDVet · 01-12-2014 09:32PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

There was another thread on AH only a few days ago wherea girl sent a male poster a text saying'**** me please`. This was met with responses `real classy bird there' 'real marriage material! ' - all from male posters.

I'm pretty sure if you reversed the gender's people would still respond negatively. They'd call him pathetic and tell OP not to waste her time.

One eyed Jack · 01-12-2014 09:34PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Why will it never happen? Nothing stays the same forever. Why is it the way it is at the minute? Control?

Why will it never happen? Because men and women will always disagree on which gender "has it worse" than the other, and neither gender will ever compromise their advantageous positions. You're right that nothing stays the same forever, and generally the balance will shift either way, and that's why it is the way it is at the minute, because both genders are vying for control over the balance of power between genders.

Banana Strawberry · 01-12-2014 09:36PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Why will it never happen? Because men and women will always disagree on which gender "has it worse" than the other, and neither gender will ever compromise their advantageous positions. You're right that nothing stays the same forever, and generally the balance will shift either way, and that's why it is the way it is at the minute, because both genders are vying for control over the balance of power between genders.

Things do change, women are judged much less now for sleeping around than say 40 years ago.

midlandsmissus · 01-12-2014 09:38PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I'm not sure this is the result of a sexist culture. Rather, it's the result of biology.

When men and women have sex, the likely outcome is offspring. And, as much as I wish it wasn't this way; our biology makes this very unfair event. The man is only giving up some sperm. That's a trivial thing to do. The woman, if she gets pregnant, is many, many, many times more invested. Not only is pregnancy physically dangerous, it takes nine months and it quite unpleasant for most people. And then, she's got a child.

Now, our modern society has some things that try to balance this out a bit, but the truth is - it will never be balanced, because our biology is inherently unbalanced.

Imagine if you had to collect signatures from people on Grafton street. From the men, you just needed to get a signature. From the women, you needed to get a signature and a bank account number, explaining that there is a 1 in 100 chance you'd bill them 100 euro, each month, for the next 18 years.

It wouldn't be very impressive if you got a bunch of men to sign your paper.
It *would* be very impressive if you got a bunch of women to sign your paper.

You aren't giving them anything, but they are taking on an awful lot of risk.

Beyond that, making things even more unfair, is that STDs are not equally transmittable. If I (a man) have sex with a woman who has AIDS the odds of me catching it from her are significantly lower than the odds of that woman catching AIDS from me (if I have AIDS).

Clearly, sex is unfairly biased. That's just how we are built. And while modern laws (and science) try to adjust for this - there are *far* more single moms raising a child than single fathers. Even with birth control....many people can't seem to have sex without procreating.

Given that our biology is sexist, I'm not entirely sure our culture *shouldn't* be sexist. There are lots of other examples - like sports - where we acknowledge there are biological differences and have entirely different standards. I enjoy lifting weights - but I'm nothing special. But if I were a girl, I'd be an elite level weight lifter. But I'm NOT a girl, so I'm held to different standards. Not because society says so, but because nature did.

You have managed to skip over the gaping big hole that women ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO SEXUALLY.I heard so many times as a young girl 'be a good girl' 'being a slut is an awful, bad thing to be' you wont get married if you sleep around''dont give in to men too easily' Girls are controlled by society from a young age about how to act. I think some men tell themselves the above comfortable argument as they cant bear to think of women as having the same high sex drive as them.

One eyed Jack · 01-12-2014 09:43PM

Banana Strawberry wrote: »

Things do change, women are judged much less now for sleeping around than say 40 years ago.

They really aren't. The negative judgment of women based on their sexuality or their sexual behaviour is still as prevalent today as it always was.

EDIT: You actually acknowledged this yourself earlier -

Banana Strawberry wrote: »

Indeed there is shaming of promiscuous women. I fully agree.

DeadHand · 01-12-2014 09:52PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They really aren't. The negative judgment of women based on their sexuality or their sexual behaviour is still as prevalent today as it always was.

Sure the negative judgements still exist but there isn't nearly as much venom poured on women for sleeping around nowadays.

What is seen as normal behaviour now may have landed a woman in a laundry 40 years ago.

Mister Vain · 01-12-2014 09:57PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

women are controlled by society as to what they can or cant do sexually, they are controlled. This imbalance hurts both of us.

How exactly are they controlled? People are more sexually liberated now than ever before and there is far less stigma with casual sex now compared to previous generations.

tritium · 01-12-2014 10:17PM

midlandsmissus wrote: »

You have managed to skip over the gaping big hole that women ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO SEXUALLY.I heard so many times as a young girl 'be a good girl' 'being a slut is an awful, bad thing to be' you wont get married if you sleep around''dont give in to men too easily' Girls are controlled by society from a young age about how to act. I think some men tell themselves the above comfortable argument as they cant bear to think of women as having the same high sex drive as them.

Pretty ironic in a thread about a phenomenon that's used to justify social engineering of young males to change them to how they 'should' be that you complain about people telling women what to do.

BadMoonRising · 01-12-2014 10:19PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

They really aren't. The negative judgment of women based on their sexuality or their sexual behaviour is still as prevalent today as it always was.

I'd agree that there is still judgement of women based on their sexuality but I disagree that its anywhere near what it was in the past. The younger generation have a completely different outlook to this and I say this as an aul one of 22 :P
My sister is 16 and theres an awful lot more girls sleeping around in her year than there was when I was the same age a few years ago, including one night stands after 18ths etc. I know it always went on but even when I was younger it was more hush hush wheras she says now it wouldn't be as shameful..she reckons geordie shore etc. has a lot to do with making it seem more casual.

Im not really sure how liberating it is for the girls tbh, it feels like swapping one expectation for another.Years ago girls were expected to be pure etc even if they didnt want to be, now theres a lot of girls in her year riding because its the done thing and doing it hoping the lads will go out with them, while the lads use them...again I know none of this is new, and I'm not blaming lads for this at all, but I don't think the freedom of choice not to do these things is passing on to a lot of them, its still societal pressure regardless!

Iranoutofideas · 01-12-2014 10:26PM

Focusing on one issue tends to miss the bigger picture.

We have to end apartheid and slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.

Armistice · 01-12-2014 10:39PM

Did you see that ludicrous display last night?

Banana Strawberry · 01-12-2014 10:50PM

BadMoonRising wrote: »

I'd agree that there is still judgement of women based on their sexuality but I disagree that its anywhere near what it was in the past. The younger generation have a completely different outlook to this and I say this as an aul one of 22 :P
My sister is 16 and theres an awful lot more girls sleeping around in her year than there was when I was the same age a few years ago, including one night stands after 18ths etc. I know it always went on but even when I was younger it was more hush hush wheras she says now it wouldn't be as shameful..she reckons geordie shore etc. has a lot to do with making it seem more casual.

Im not really sure how liberating it is for the girls tbh, it feels like swapping one expectation for another.Years ago girls were expected to be pure etc even if they didnt want to be, now theres a lot of girls in her year riding because its the done thing and doing it hoping the lads will go out with them, while the lads use them...again I know none of this is new, and I'm not blaming lads for this at all, but I don't think the freedom of choice not to do these things is passing on to a lot of them, its still societal pressure regardless!

I think too much emphasis is put in the pressure girls to be having sex at a young age, do a girl's friends actually put pressure on her to have lots of casual sex?

BadMoonRising · 01-12-2014 11:01PM

Banana Strawberry wrote: »

I think too much emphasis is put in the pressure girls to be having sex at a young age, do a girl's friends actually put pressure on her to have lots of casual sex?

Yep, otherwise you're dry or fridget..the youth of today! I think a lot of it is the age, at that age you're not as likely to tell you're friends to fupp off and mind their own business so they do what the rest are doing.

Venus In Furs · 01-12-2014 11:17PM

I definitely think there's less hostility towards women in Ireland being sexual beings in the last 25 years.

With regard to younger generations being more promiscuous: I think every generation thinks that. I was a teenager in the 90s and would have thought teenagers in the 2000s were more promiscuous than us, but looking back now, we certainly weren't angels.

I think what someone said about women being harder on women than men ever could be, is a strange thing to say though - I prefer to look at individuals, but if pushed to generalise, to me the law of averages would dictate there are equal numbers of horrible people amidst each gender.

_Kaiser_ · 01-12-2014 11:22PM

Ok I admit it.. I haven't read the whole thread so maybe this was asked but I just have a question: Is "misogyny" the Word of the Month on Boards/AH or something?

Here's a novel idea - how about some people stop looking for offence everywhere and let grown adults get on with their own lives while others do the same?

Bloody PC/nanny state culture is getting ridiculous at this stage.

Mister Vain · 01-12-2014 11:49PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ok I admit it.. I haven't read the whole thread so maybe this was asked but I just have a question: Is "misogyny" the Word of the Month on Boards/AH or something?

Here's a novel idea - how about some people stop looking for offence everywhere and let grown adults get on with their own lives while others do the same?

Bloody PC/nanny state culture is getting ridiculous at this stage.

+ a million. It's getting fecking ridiculous lately. It's like walking on egg shells.

RDM_83 again · 01-12-2014 11:51PM

---

Venus In Furs · 01-12-2014 11:55PM

I did a search for the term "misogyny" on this thread. It's mentioned five times - three times as an objection to how it can be used incorrectly, once in reference to a previous thread about misogyny, once in the opening post as part of a question.

In reference to this thread, I really don't understand the stuff about walking on eggshells/nanny state/PC/looking for offence?

Mister Vain · 01-12-2014 11:59PM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

In reference to this thread, I really don't understand the stuff about walking on eggshells/nanny state/PC/looking for offence?

We were talking about AH in general as of late, not just this particular thread.

The One Doctor · 02-12-2014 12:02AM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

I did a search for the term "misogyny" on this thread. It's mentioned five times - three times as an objection to how it can be used incorrectly, once in reference to a previous thread about misogyny, once in the opening post as part of a question.

In reference to this thread, I really don't understand the stuff about walking on eggshells/nanny state/PC/looking for offence?

It's the Ladies Lounge regulars looking for something new to whine about combined with the Gentlemen's Club regulars who cry into their spritzers about misandry and the alleged anti-men brigade. They should be talking about cognac and cigars, not moaning about misandry.

TLDR: It's both sides' fault. They're equally precious.

tritium · 02-12-2014 12:15AM

Venus In Furs wrote: »

I did a search for the term "misogyny" on this thread. It's mentioned five times - three times as an objection to how it can be used incorrectly, once in reference to a previous thread about misogyny, once in the opening post as part of a question.

In reference to this thread, I really don't understand the stuff about walking on eggshells/nanny state/PC/looking for offence?

haha, saw your post and immediately thought of this for some reason

seems strangely relevant

efb · 02-12-2014 12:31AM

Could we get rid of the word "banter" while we're at it!

chrissb8 · 02-12-2014 12:37AM

Lad culture is stupid. Idiots posturing themselves as beer drinking, loud mouthed idiots who over compensate from talking about inane nonsense like cars, "burds" and stories from when they're "out on the lash". Alpha males who are trying to overcompensate. All revolved about who can be the biggest LAD among their friends. It annoys me more so that people who act like this associate this with being a mans man. In reality they're all carbon copies of each other and it seems like something adopted because most of these lads have absolutely nothing to talk about and a lack of true personality. Don't get me wrong I love football and yes I do like looking at a pretty lady walk by.

But when you're with one of these "lads" around good looking women all you hear is "such a fit bird" "what a cracker". Yes she and she and she are all good looking women do we need to draw light to this for every single one? Why do you keep saying it to me? is this to prove you're sexually interested and just a horndog always looking for it? You come across as a pathetic 16 year old male who is allowed to speak his sexual thoughts whenever he pleases. I do not care for this aspect the most. Or when they talk about how they would "smash" or "deck" someone after hearing a story about something happening to someone and if they were in that situation they'd be having none of it. Thinking someone is a "weirdo" for talking about something not related to ladness. Don't blame them if you have next to no other opinions or tastes different to all the other "lads". It's just that you're boring and extremely annoying.

For the most part though most men are not like this and actually aren't too insecure to think that this pathetic illusion of ladness is how to act as a fully grown man. Basically I hate "LADS" and all the idiot culture around it. This is all from experience of being in an all boys school, male dominated jobs and playing lots of sunday league football over the years. "LAD" culture is for boys not men.

enfant terrible · 02-12-2014 12:40AM

http://i.imgur.com/aWQvCQF.jpg

SteelyDanJalapeno · 02-12-2014 12:41AM

Howay man

CarpeDiem85 · 02-12-2014 01:06AM

That whole Lad, pat on the back culture for objectifying women, being materialistic and just acting dickish has spread like wildfire over the last few years in particular.

I'm not sure if he's been mentioned but the likes of Dan Bilzerian make me sick. He seems to be what a lot of young men aspire to be these days. Why the women pawn over him is beyond me, the money helps obviously.

The whole Wolves of Wallstreet is another phenomenon. Get rich, be materialistic and treat women as disposable objects with no real feelings.

Over the last few years, I've gone out dating and I can honestly say I have met one guy who had impeccable manners and who I didn't feel was trying to bide his time to get me into his bed.

I long for the type of chivalry and just respect that my grandmother was shown when my grandfather was courting her. I've realised that the chances of it happening with my generation is slim to none unfortunately.

suicide_circus · 02-12-2014 01:09AM

efb wrote: »

Could we get rid of the word "banter" while we're at it!

Bants. As in "having the bants"

*cringe*

My name is URL · 02-12-2014 01:12AM

efb wrote: »

Could we get rid of the word "banter" while we're at it!

Most of everything else you've said in this thread I'd disagree with but not that :pac:

TheBeardedLady · 02-12-2014 07:42AM

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

I thought Lad culture was boozing heavily and being loud and obnoxious. I also thought it wasn't gender specific.It is very British media driven term and I wouldn't have heard the reference outside of that. I think I may have heard it being used a few years ago on one of those cop shows, "boozed up Britain" or similar.

There's also the term "Ladette" which got bandied around a lot. I'd agree it's behaviour that's not exclusive to one gender.

Lad Culture

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