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Looting and Rioting in St. Louis (Merged)

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Comments

  • #1382
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    catallus wrote: »
    That is one of the most patronising things I've had to read on here today.

    Maybe you should go and hold those slack-jaws' hands to make sure they read the evidence "the right way" i.e, your way.

    They don't go for outside juries or prosecutors because their institutions are solid enough to deal with this sort of thing.
    they aren't

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1383
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Nodin wrote: »
    I thought I was motivated by racism, according to your last post. Which is it?

    It is both.


  • #1384
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    catallus wrote: »
    You've explained you believe the members of the grand jury and the prosecutors to be irredeemably biased.

    It is not a reasonable explanation. It is in fact an indication of your own racialist tendencies against those people.
    rubbish. its a very reasonable explanation

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1385
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    catallus wrote: »
    It is both.


    Am I racist against white people or black, just as a matter of interest. I'm given to understand that the grand jury was composed of both black and white persons.


  • #1386
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Nodin wrote: »
    Am I racist against white people or black, just as a matter of interest. I'm given to understand that the grand jury was composed of both black and white persons.

    Maybe you orientate your bigotry for whatever suits your purpose? How am I to know? It is of no interest to me. But you are surely promoting your twisted agenda against the white person who was cleared by that grand jury.

    Hope that clarifies that for you.


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  • #1387
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    catallus wrote: »
    Maybe you orientate your bigotry for whatever you suits your purpose? How am I to know? It is of no interest to me. ..........

    Because you alleged it in the first place, and thus, presumably, would have concrete notions as to why you brought it up.

    .......have you any evidence to support the notion that I'm a racist?


  • #1388
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Nodin wrote: »
    Because you alleged it in the first place, and thus, presumably, would have concrete notions as to why you brought it up.

    .......have you any evidence to support the notion that I'm a racist?

    Your satisfaction with the verdict seems predicated on the colour of the accused.


  • #1389
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Nodin wrote: »

    .......have you any evidence to support the notion that I'm a racist?


    This is concrete evidence for me:
    Nodin wrote: »
    The affilliations and leanings of the prosecutor, his office, and the members of the grand jury are the issue.


  • #1390
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    catallus wrote: »
    This is concrete evidence for me:
    yeah. thats nothing to do with racism

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1391
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    end of the road wrote: »
    yeah. thats nothing to do with racism

    Yeah it has everything to do with it, quite clearly.

    Let Nodin lie and obfuscate as much as he likes, but he has revealed himself, clearly, to be taking the institutions to task for his perception of their "affiliations and leanings" in favour of a white man against a black man.

    All that = RACISM.


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  • #1392
    Yarf Yarf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭Yarf Yarf


    Amazingfun wrote: »
    Michael Brown wasn't shot for shoplifting.
    He was shot for attacking a police officer and trying to remove his firearm, as you and everyone capable of digesting facts is only too well aware.

    The poster I was replying to was harping on about shoplifting as if that somehow justifies shooting someone dead.

    Also, who came up with that story? The guy who shot Michael Brown who has been treated with kid gloves since the beginning of this whole fiasco? Excuse me for not believing every word that comes out of his mouth, especially when it goes virtually unchallenged by those who were supposed to objectively assess the situation. The blind willingness of people to just accept everything that authority figures tell them is baffling at times, especially when it comes to cases like this. There are people up on high in this case who had literally zero intention of ever indicting Wilson no matter what happened, that much should be clear. There are plenty of people more qualified to form an opinion than you or me who seem to think there is something inherently corrupt in how this case has been handled. I think I'd be more interested in their views on this rather than the views of some people who seem all too keen to accept the official version of events or think that petty crime is something worth executing someone over.


  • #1393
    Yarf Yarf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭Yarf Yarf


    And it should probably be noted that the greatest villain in all of this is Bob McCulloch. That man has a history of protecting police officers in controversial cases. He had no intention of getting an indictment for Wilson, that much was clear a long time ago, and he has orchestrated it in such a way so that he can now wash his hands of the whole thing. He's a crook of the highest order.


  • #1394
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Yarf Yarf wrote: »
    The guy who shot Michael Brown who has been treated with kid gloves since the beginning of this whole fiasco?

    Seriously? Officer Wilson has been completely hung out to dry. The racism industry pounced on this case and was determined to make an example of him no matter whether he was in the right or the wrong. Now he's been railroaded out of his job by the pitchfork wielding mobs despite a finding of having no case to answer

    Yarf Yarf wrote: »
    The blind willingness of people to just accept everything that authority figures tell them is baffling at times, especially when it comes to cases like this.

    You mean the blind willingness of people to believe that the police are always wrong and always accept what those in the racism industry proclaims is baffling at times.

    Yarf Yarf wrote: »
    There are plenty of people more qualified to form an opinion than you or me who seem to think there is something inherently corrupt in how this case has been handled. I think I'd be more interested in their views on this rather than the views of some people who seem all too keen to accept the official version of events or think that petty crime is something worth executing someone over.

    Like who? Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? The NAACP?


  • #1395
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    catallus wrote: »
    This is concrete evidence for me:

    How? Do you know what the word "affiliation" means?


  • #1396
    Yarf Yarf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭Yarf Yarf


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Seriously? Officer Wilson has been completely hung out to dry. The racism industry pounced on this case and was determined to make an example of him no matter whether he was in the right or the wrong. Now he's been railroaded out of his job by the pitchfork wielding mobs despite a finding of having no case to answer

    Officer Wilson is a free man who didn't even have to stand trial and that is in no small part thanks to Bob McCulloch's fiddling about, something he has a history of. I don't think we need to feel too sorry for him. The odds were in his favour from the get-go due to how the justice system is set up. Cops rarely go to prison for misconduct, regardless of the circumstances.
    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    You mean the blind willingness of people to believe that the police are always wrong and always accept what those in the racism industry proclaims is baffling at times.

    What's this "racism industry" you speak of? Do you mean the generations of institutionalized and systematic racism in the US that has meant that deadly force is used disproportionately against minorities, or acts against minorities so that they inevitably don't get the same opportunities as white people? You know, I find it amazing how white people always manage to make these things about themselves. Like I said before, it's quite Orwellian to try and convince people that it's not the oppressors who are at fault, but the oppressed.
    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Like who? Jesse Jackson? Al Sharpton? The NAACP?

    Try various law professors in universities across the States from Harvard to California, many of whom seem to agree that there is something at the very least peculiar about how the case has been handled if not corrupt.


  • #1397
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Nodin wrote: »
    How? Do you know what the word "affiliation" means?

    And the poor man is cock of all his jests....

    You ask a lot of rhetorical questions don't you?
    Yarf Yarf wrote: »
    Try various law professors in universities across the States from Harvard to California, many of whom seem to agree that there is something at the very least peculiar about how the case has been handled if not corrupt.

    Could you give a link to one or two of these?


  • #1398
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    catallus wrote: »
    And the poor man is cock of all his jests....

    You ask a lot of rhetorical questions don't you?

    That wasn't a rhetorical question, as you don't seem to understand the meaning of the word.


  • #1399
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Nodin wrote: »
    That wasn't a rhetorical question, as you don't seem to understand the meaning of the word.

    Are you having a laugh? :rolleyes:

    Are you so blind to yourself that you cannot see you're bouncing from facetiousness to fallacy in order to justify your craven defence of the indefensible?

    Open your eyes.


  • #1400
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    catallus wrote: »
    Are you having a laugh? :rolleyes:

    Are you so blind to yourself that you cannot see you're bouncing from facetiousness to fallacy in order to justify your craven defence of the indefensible?

    Open your eyes.

    You might stop talking nonsense.

    You're accusing me of something. You have provided no proof of it.


  • #1401
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Nodin wrote: »
    You might stop talking nonsense.

    You're accusing me of something. You have provided no proof of it.

    It is not nonsense, Nodin, to assert that your comments on here are spinning in a void of ignorance and self-deception.

    Wake up to yourself, man. Growth is only painful if you resist it.


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  • #1402
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    catallus wrote: »
    It is not nonsense, Nodin, to assert that your comments on here are spinning in a void of ignorance and self-deception.

    Wake up to yourself, man. Growth is only painful if you resist it.


    I'm not interested in your waffle. You accused me of racism - I'd like to see some evidence of this, or a withdrawal of the remark.


  • #1403
    Yarf Yarf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 289 ✭✭Yarf Yarf


    catallus wrote: »
    Could you give a link to one or two of these?

    Ronald S. Sullivan Junior, director of the Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard University:
    "This was a strategic and problematic use of a grand jury to get the result he wanted," said Ronald S. Sullivan Jr., director of the Harvard Criminal Justice Institute at Harvard University. "As a strategic move, it was smart; he got what he wanted without being seen as directly responsible for the result."
    Sullivan called the case "the most unusual marshaling of a grand jury's resources I've seen in my 25 years as a lawyer and scholar."

    James A. Cohen, law professor at Fordham University:
    "A prosecutor has an obligation to ask questions and clarify testimony for grand jurors," he said. "This prosecutor did worse than abdicate his responsibility: He structured the presentation so the jurors would vote no true bill."

    and
    "There is an enormous disconnect between how the officer describes the events in his car versus the 'injuries' he suffered," said Cohen, the Fordham professor.
    Nor did prosecutors press Wilson on why he got out of his car and pursued Brown if he was afraid that Brown might kill him.
    "He was frightened for his life — that's what he said," Cohen said of Wilson. "So why did he get out of the car? Why did he chase Brown? Why didn't he wait for [police] backup, which he knew was on the way?"

    http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-ferguson-da-analysis-20141126-story.html

    Ben Trachtenburg of the University of Missouri:
    Ben Trachtenberg, a University of Missouri law professor, stopped short of saying McCulloch laid out an overwhelming amount of evidence to keep the grand jury from charging Wilson.
    "I'm not prepared to say it's improper, but it's certainly unusual," he said. "It certainly looks like he put on a much greater amount of evidence than we're used to."
    Normally, Trachtenberg said, a grand jury sees and hears much less evidence before being asked to vote on indicting a suspect.
    "In many cases, the grand jury can see evidence in a few minutes and take a vote," he said.
    That's because prosecutors simply need to establish probable cause, he said. They don't have to try the entire case.
    On the other hand, prosecutors bringing what they consider a weak case before a grand jury might present more evidence because that could save them from losing in court.
    "Nobody wants to get an indictment that you just barely get, because you get smacked around in the real trial," he said.
    Trachtenberg noted that the grand jury saw evidence that helped bolster Wilson's version of events, not secure an indictment.


    Pace law professor:
    Pace law professor McLaughlin suggests Wilson had an alternative course of action after Brown ran 8 to 10 feet from the police vehicle.
    "He had already called for backup, but the officer made the decision to get out of his car and give chase," he said.
    McLaughlin says such a high profile case should have gone to trial in an open court so everyone could see the evidence as it was presented. "They wanted to do it in secret, and I don't trust any process done in secret," he said.
    The grand jury process presents a conflict of interest for prosecutors, who have to work day in and day out with police to make their cases stick. Prosecutors may not present their strongest case against an officer as a result, he said. The prosecutor rarely interrupted Wilson during his grand jury testimony, McLaughlin noted.
    "At a trial, the prosecutor would go after the officer," McLaughlin said. "He would poke holes in his testimony. Here, the prosecutor basically just let him tell his story.
    "So a grand juror puts himself in the shoes of the officer and thinks, 'What would I have done?' " he said.


    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/25/ferguson-grand-jury/70098616/


    There's plenty of debate out there about whether this was handled properly or not, and there seems to be some reason to believe that it wasn't.


  • #1404
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'm not interested in your waffle. You accused me of racism - I'd like to see some evidence of this, or a withdrawal of the remark.

    Have you not being following this thread?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93268726&postcount=1391

    Like I said, wake up to yourself.


  • #1405
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    catallus wrote: »
    Have you not being following this thread?
    .

    You clearly don't understand the meaning of 'affiliations and leanings' if you think that's evidence of racism. You also seem to have forgotten that the grand jury was drawn from different races.

    Now - please present some evidence or withdraw the remark.


  • #1406
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Nodin wrote: »
    Now - please present some evidence or withdraw the remark.

    http://totalpict.com/images/50/503379953503402a7c8bed.jpeg


  • #1407
    catallus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭catallus


    Nodin wrote: »
    You clearly don't understand the meaning of 'affiliations and leanings' if you think that's evidence of racism. You also seem to have forgotten that the grand jury was drawn from different races.

    Now - please present some evidence or withdraw the remark.

    You shouldn't make up your own meanings for words to make you feel better about yourself. That's literally self-deception.

    I couldn't live with that kind of self inflicted blindness, though.


  • #1408
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    catallus wrote: »
    Yeah it has everything to do with it, quite clearly.

    quite clearly, it doesn't.
    catallus wrote: »
    Let Nodin lie and obfuscate as much as he likes

    he isn't lying and obfuscating.
    catallus wrote: »
    he has revealed himself, clearly, to be taking the institutions to task for his perception of their "affiliations and leanings" in favour of a white man against a black man.

    he has revealed himself as nothing. he is taking the institutions to task for having a conflict of interest, which could mean bias being shown, causing them to lean toards the side of the police officer, on the basis of that bias rather then evidence

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1409
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,006 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Seriously? Officer Wilson has been completely hung out to dry. The racism industry pounced on this case and was determined to make an example of him no matter whether he was in the right or the wrong. Now he's been railroaded out of his job by the pitchfork wielding mobs despite a finding of having no case to answer

    he wasn't railroaded out of his job by the pitchfork wielding mobs. he would have been a high risk to keep as a police officer, that was why he no longer has a job in the police.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1410
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    end of the road wrote: »
    he wasn't railroaded out of his job by the pitchfork wielding mobs. he would have been a high risk to keep as a police officer, that was why he no longer has a job in the police.

    Wilson and his family receive constant death threats. If that's not being forced out of his job, then what is?


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  • #1411
    Amazingfun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Amazingfun


    Yarf Yarf wrote: »
    The poster I was replying to was harping on about shoplifting as if that somehow justifies shooting someone dead.

    Also, who came up with that story? The guy who shot Michael Brown who has been treated with kid gloves since the beginning of this whole fiasco? Excuse me for not believing every word that comes out of his mouth, especially when it goes virtually unchallenged by those who were supposed to objectively assess the situation. The blind willingness of people to just accept everything that authority figures tell them is baffling at times, especially when it comes to cases like this. There are people up on high in this case who had literally zero intention of ever indicting Wilson no matter what happened, that much should be clear. There are plenty of people more qualified to form an opinion than you or me who seem to think there is something inherently corrupt in how this case has been handled. I think I'd be more interested in their views on this rather than the views of some people who seem all too keen to accept the official version of events or think that petty crime is something worth executing someone over.

    Every word of this is absolute provable horsesh1t. No wonder it was *liked* by three who practice the same kind of delusional play regarding this case.

    ***No surprise the author of this garbage has fled the building lol ;)
    Yarf Yarf
    Closed Account


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