Do you think Foxes will become fully domesticated?

Sclosages · 01-12-2014 12:07AM

I had a pet sheep.

Turtwig · 01-12-2014 12:10AM

--LOS-- wrote: »

Russian experimental domestication of foxes is just Russians selecting and breeding the most easily <insert desired trait here>. Ye, nice 'experiment'

That's how pretty much every animal was domesticated. Heaven forbid if any dog gains enough sentience to learn how his kind came to be such adorable pets in the first place. They might not look to fondly at us. Or I suspect because we've so wonderfully domesticated them they'll love us anyway as that's what we conditioned them to do.

Yep, I believe foxes can become pets.

Wibbs · 01-12-2014 12:11AM

The other fella wrote: »

This is definitely true.We need a cooler selection of animals around the place.

Well one animal that is often forgotten in the west that was domesticated was the cheetah. Used like hunting dogs in India. Bloody fast hunting dogs mind you. For an Irish angle, back in the 19th century and IIRC the story, an Indian chap brought a couple of prize hunting cheetahs to the Phoenix park in Dublin to show off their prowess in hunting deer. So far so good, however the local Jackeen deer were not aware of the cheetah and likely thought "eh WTF is this overgrown cat think he's doing?" and one was killed and the other injured by a stag who bellowed in Deer "do you know the five lamps, pal".

Sclosages · 01-12-2014 12:14AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Well one animal that is often forgotten in the west that was domesticated was the cheetah. Used like hunting dogs in India. Bloody fast hunting dogs mind you. For an Irish angle, back in the 19th century and IIRC the story, an Indian chap brought a couple of prize hunting cheetahs to the Phoenix park in Dublin to show off their prowess in hunting deer. So far so good, however the local Jackeen deer were not aware of the cheetah and likely thought "eh WTF is this overgrown cat think he's doing?" and one was killed and the other injured by a stag who bellowed in Deer "do you know the five lamps, pal".

I think that was actually a dog. Called Fenton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU

Wibbs · 01-12-2014 12:23AM

Sclosages wrote: »

I had a pet sheep.

Sheep are a lot more clever than many believe IMH. It's been proven they recognise faces, both of their own kind and people they know and show affection or not depending. Goats are savvy feckers too.

My mum knew a woman who grew up on a farm and raised a bull from a calf and she and only she could deal with him when he was fully grown. She would call him by name and he'd come a running for a scratch behind the ear and under the chin. I even saw photos of her sitting on his back. :eek: Bulls are, or can be extremely dangerous and unpredictable animals and kill a remarkable amount of people every year. A very real danger for our farming brothers and sisters. Yet with her he was a complete dote. Mad. Maybe it was the mutual respect thing going on? And this bull wasn't one of those lanky Spanish bulls that midgets in spangly spandex "fight" with a cape and an "Ole". Actually I'd love to put one of those heavy hitting Irish mofo's in against Pedro and his cape. See how many "Ole's" you can muster you prancing tool while Podge the two tonne Mayo bull wears you as a ****ing necklace.

The other fella · 01-12-2014 12:28AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Sheep are a lot more clever than many believe IMH. It's been proven they recognise faces, both of their own kind and people they know and show affection or not depending. Goats are savvy feckers too.

My mum knew a woman who grew up on a farm and raised a bull from a calf and she and only she could deal with him when he was fully grown. She would call him by name and he'd come a running for a scratch behind the ear and under the chin. I even saw photos of her sitting on his back. :eek: Bulls are, or can be extremely dangerous and unpredictable animals and kill a remarkable amount of people every year. A very real danger for our farming brothers and sisters. Yet with her he was a complete dote. Mad. Maybe it was the mutual respect thing going on? And this bull wasn't one of those lanky Spanish bulls that midgets in spangly spandex "fight" with a cape and an "Ole". Actually I'd love to put one of those heavy hitting Irish mofo's in against Pedro and his cape. See how many "Ole's" you can muster you prancing tool while Podge the two tonne Mayo bull wears you as a ****ing necklace.

Not a fan of the old bull fighting then?

Sclosages · 01-12-2014 12:29AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Sheep are a lot more clever than many believe IMH. It's been proven they recognise faces, both of their own kind and people they know and show affection or not depending. Goats are savvy feckers too.

My mum knew a woman who grew up on a farm and raised a bull from a calf and she and only she could deal with him when he was fully grown. She would call him by name and he'd come a running for a scratch behind the ear and under the chin. I even saw photos of her sitting on his back. :eek: Bulls are, or can be extremely dangerous and unpredictable animals and kill a remarkable amount of people every year. A very real danger for our farming brothers and sisters. Yet with her he was a complete dote. Mad. Maybe it was the mutual respect thing going on? And this bull wasn't one of those lanky Spanish bulls that midgets in spangly spandex "fight" with a cape and an "Ole". Actually I'd love to put one of those heavy hitting Irish mofo's in against Pedro and his cape. See how many "Ole's" you can muster you prancing tool while Podge the two tonne Mayo bull wears you as a ****ing necklace.

I think there can be an element of respect for the master. I reared the lamb and I think when she was a sheep and reared lambs of her own, she adopted me as one of her babies or something. Strange, but you'd have to understand her to understand. Or have seen her or met her. Best sheep ever.

WoollyRedHat · 01-12-2014 12:33AM

What does the fox say?

Sclosages · 01-12-2014 12:34AM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

What does the fox say?

Never believe a word they say.

The other fella · 01-12-2014 12:36AM

Sclosages wrote: »

I think there can be an element of respect for the master. I reared the lamb and I think when she was a sheep and reared lambs of her own, she adopted me as one of her babies or something. Strange, but you'd have to understand her to understand. Or have seen her or met her. Best sheep ever.

chris.jpg

cerastes · 01-12-2014 12:40AM

Riddle101 wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of youtube videos recently, where foxes seem to be taken in or adopted as pets.

I wonder if this practice continues, will foxes eventually become domesticated animals like dogs and cat. I mean at one point cats and dogs were wild animals too. But over time they have since become apart of society. Maybe within the next 100 years foxes will follow the same path.
Farmers might do it too. As an alternative to killing them, they might domesticate them in the hope of preventing them from disrupting their business by attacking and killing their animals for food. But that's just a theory of mine.

Either way, I didn't make this thread to advocate domesticating them. It's just something that's been on my mind, and I wondered if other people felt the same way about it. But maybe I'm wrong, and all those videos i've seen is nothing more then me overreacting.

Dogs and cats have been domesticated over millenia, so I dont think its going to happen widespread to foxes over a hundred years, maybe some foxes have traits that make them more suitad for it though.
I doubt farmers would have the time to be dealing with that, I think the reason they are dealt with is as much for concern disrupting their business by diseases and pests they may carry?

Personally, I couldnt bring myself to shoot them, but I dont have livestock and my livliehood doesnt rely on it, although I thought foxes might help to keep other pests down naturally they are more natural here, I could shoot grey squirrels but thats probably an inefficient way to do that, I doubt you could even get them all, one small pocket and they'd reintroduce. Maybe foxes might be encouraged to do this by some means, maybe making access/contact to farm animals less likely, like lambs??

Im happy enough to see foxes in suburbia, and its rare enough, but they always seem shy and wary, and its only ever been the case when I caught them in the headlights or Id never have seen them. Im sure they are providing some usefulness in suburbia, maybe they deter rats? they will eat mice.

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

We need to integrate different animals into Ireland, stuff like Rhinos and Giraffes.

I must say that the animals we currently have are crap, they either hide in the bushes every time you try and go near them or they just don't do anything interesting. Imagine looking out your window in the morning and seeing Giraffes tower over the trees.

How about wooly mammoths or brontosauruses?

The other fella wrote: »

I also read something before about animal domestication that had 6 or 7 points that an animal has to have to be considered able to be domesticated and foxes dont meet the criteria.

Its amazing how close they must be to dogs, but their traits have been bred for a long time. Either we or they lucked out, maybe both and thats why it succeeded, so there is no need for any attempt to do it to foxes, besides feeding an injured animal and re-releasing it.

Frankie Lee wrote: »

My Grandmother had a pet hare before. It made a great pet apparently especially with people he knew but would hide around strangers. Extremely intelligent.

Could do crosswords? converse in many languages? what could it do?

WoollyRedHat · 01-12-2014 12:40AM

Sclosages wrote: »

Never believe a word they say.

But they talk to me and pay me compliments like how I'm such a magnificient dancer and how I should of been the one to have invented riverdance.

Sclosages · 01-12-2014 12:45AM

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

But they talk to me and pay me compliments like how I'm such a magnificient dancer and how I should of been the one to have invented riverdance.

Nyess..........

deco nate · 01-12-2014 12:48AM

Believe it or not I have seen a man with a fox on a lead between kill Kenny and Clonmel, not sure of the name of the town.. Callen? Anyway seen them both many times, first time I saw them I was like Wtf did I just see? A man waiting to cross the road with a fox standing on his shoulders! I thought I had an acid flash back, nope seen him and the Fox a good few times afterwards. This was about 5-6 years ago.

Also I'm near sure their was a thread on here talking about the same man and fox years ago, but it may have been Facebook.

Wibbs · 01-12-2014 12:51AM

Sclosages wrote: »

I think that was actually a dog. Called Fenton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU

Ah man that cheered me up no end S.

"Fentaaauuuun!!" the poor hound was likely pissed off by being called Fenton, so decided to show his true mettle. And that folks is a perfect example of why we don't let our doggies roam the way we let our cats roam. I mean Fenton(I prefer the name Rasher pal) is only a wee dog and he's making a herd of deer many times his size run away. His hard on must have been dragging on the ground and slowing him down.

Actually cats are no angels either, I've seen one do the same thing with a flock of ducks and geese.

Cats can be right hardarses too.

Irish cat versus fox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kzyffAggI4

Cat reckons eagle may be a good meal, but then because of good sense thinks better of it.

Very cool one where a cat saves one of her family(who she adopted years previously) from a vicious dog attack and likely saved that lad's life as that dog was in full prey attack mode looking to drag him away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSG_wBiTEE8

Note how she uses her entire bodyweight to judo the fook outa the much heavier dog. Even after that she pressed on with her attack. Damn cool moggie that one.

Cats can be right cool furry bastids.

naughtysmurf · 01-12-2014 12:52AM

We have a cat that interacts with the local fox in a playful manner, it's like they are buddies, really strange to watch

deco nate · 01-12-2014 12:54AM

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055587780/1/#post60614629

Found it, the man with a pet fox!

cerastes · 01-12-2014 01:02AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4asZ6LILO4&index=1&list=PLF4B63F0482170B63

Sclosages · 01-12-2014 01:24AM

Love the cat saving the little boy. Pure maternal instinct there I think.

Sclosages · 01-12-2014 01:25AM

that's why I believe the sheep loved me until her dotage. she genuinely took me on, even though I was the one who had minded her.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 01-12-2014 01:42AM

the evasion_kid wrote: »

That forum is disgraceful

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Have the kids on the hunting forum not killed them all yet?

The knowledge the lads and ladies in the hunting forum have, will always surpass that of the ignorant "hunting is bad, mmkay" type.

mountsky · 01-12-2014 01:44AM

Good grief,I couldn't ever imagine taking a fox on a lead or having it sleep in the house, something very wrong about that in all fairness

deco nate · 01-12-2014 01:59AM

mountsky wrote: »

Good grief,I couldn't ever imagine taking a fox on a lead or having it sleep in the house, something very wrong about that in all fairness

He saved it from dying in a shredder it was just a few weeks old, it knows no other life and bonded with the man.
What is wrong with that?
It has a loving bond with him, same thing can happen with a feral cat. Tbf

Edit:sorry, also at that stage it would be very hard to return it to the wild after taking care of it, feeding it... It would see humans as friends and look upon them as a non risk, some people would look at that as a threat. I see no problem with keep it like that gent I linked to. Seems to me they are happy together.

Gavin duck · 01-12-2014 03:55AM

A fox will never truly become a tame house pet it's called nature it is always has the call of the wild in it instinct and even though it might seem happy it always has the erge to be free as they say it will fly the nest when it wants to and return when it needs to .that is why the saying goes As clever as a fox

Ardillaun · 01-12-2014 05:31AM

The fox breeding program of Belyaev was conducted under the guise of a commercial venture but was actually a profoundly significant scientific experiment. Belyaev risked his life to show that Darwinian evolution was correct and the officially sanctioned Russian doctrine of Lysenkoism completely wrong.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitri_K._Belyaev

Urban foxes may gradually acquire traits that make them more domesticable but it will take a long time. Wolf pups resemble dogs until about 3-6 months, although there are differences much earlier

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16136572

Then their lack of interest in humans, particularly facial expressions, becomes obvious.

http://www.canidae.com/blog/2009/12/what-is-left-gaze-bias-how-does-it-relate-to-dogs.html

http://eprints.lincoln.ac.uk/2423/1/LGB-revision1109.pdf

https://bonebrokeblog.wordpress.com/2014/02/18/can-you-teach-a-wolf-brain-new-tricks-some-thoughts-on-artificial-selection-and-brain-evolution-in-canids/

Cesar Milan had an episode where he attempted to train wolf-dog hybrids and he had to adopt a whole different set of strategies to do so.

Kim Kardashi Un · 01-12-2014 07:53AM

I'm holding out for domesticated beaver.

Badly Drunk Boy · 01-12-2014 08:04AM

Why would you want to domesticate an animal as smelly as a fox. A neighbour of mine used to have two of them, and the smell was woeful.

Even this lovely fox is probably smelly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCuUnTJgD9M

For Forks Sake · 01-12-2014 08:40AM

Kim Kardashi Un wrote: »

I'm holding out for domesticated beaver.

Aren't we all?

conorhal · 01-12-2014 09:59AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Hmm an interesting one Riddle. It might well happen if what you're describing becomes more widespread. Both dogs and cats (very basically)became domesticated because some of their wild ancestors hung around close to our settlements and over time the more forward, less aggressive(and less fearful) ones preselected themselves as good companions and useful additions. Then we started to further preselect for traits we found useful and the cat and especially the dog came from that(a cat is "wilder" and more close to its wild cousin behaviourally, the dog is very much removed from the wolf). It might well happen with foxes if this kinda interaction continues and becomes more widespread, especially if people start breeding them).

What might be more useful in today's world? Dogs need more interaction and attention than cats(obviously as a general rule). Cats are much more into doing their own thing outside our homes, which is useful in today's world were fewer of us are at home during the day. We bred that independence out of the domestic dog(for the most part), because as an apex predator they're simply more dangerous if left to their own devices without our control. Cats may kill the odd sparrow rat or mouse as solitary hunters, but dogs could and sometimes do take down livestock and feral dogs have been known to take down people and they can form packs. Not so good.

Foxes on the other hand would be about the same danger level as cats and would be pretty independent too as they don't form up into gangs the way dogs do. They'd be a Dogcat(tm) really. An ideal mix of both pets, but more appealing to "dog people".

An uncle of mine had a "pet" fox when I was a kid. Found him as an abandoned cub that hung around his garden for a couple of days. He was hyper as feck, pretty fearful too, only responded to my uncle, but followed him around like a lapdog. In my teens I used to see a woman in the area with a fox on a lead and it was remarkably placid and "trained" looking.

Naa I think it's unlikely.

The animal in question has to be adaptable to domestication in the first place.
We didn't breed independence out of dogs as you suggest, but rather bread beta animals from a pack enviornment to accept humans as the alpha pack animal and thus it accepts it's place in the household.
This would be tricky to do with foxes they, like cats, are not pack animals so there in't a pack instinct to work with.

cerastes · 01-12-2014 10:15AM

Kim Kardashi Un wrote: »

I'm holding out for domesticated beaver.

Like the vixen, its not truly tamable, eventually it reverts to its wild state.

Do you think Foxes will become fully domesticated?

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