Do you think Foxes will become fully domesticated?

Riddle101

I've noticed a lot of youtube videos recently, where foxes seem to be taken in or adopted as pets. People in the US for instance, seem to have a lot of foxes living with them or seem to have a very friendly relationship with them. Now granted I don't know to full story behind a lot of these videos. Maybe some of those foxes have been rescued from the wild or found abandoned, but part of me feels there are some who are outright taking foxes in from the wild. Maybe they think a fox is a way cooler pet than a dog or cat. But it's got me thinking though as well.

I wonder if this practice continues, will foxes eventually become domesticated animals like dogs and cat. I mean at one point cats and dogs were wild animals too. But over time they have since become apart of society. Maybe within the next 100 years foxes will follow the same path.

I think if foxes and humans continue to interact more, humans will start domesticating foxes. I could see it possibly happening because foxes build homes so close to humans, or rather we build our homes on lands where foxes roam so they're forced to build near us. I mean I see foxes roaming around my area almost every night and while i'm not saying that it's a clear indicator that foxes will be domesticated. It does makes me believe that human and fox interaction is going to increase to the point where foxes will be accepted as the norm by society, and humans will ultimately take foxes into their households. Farmers might do it too. As an alternative to killing them, they might domesticate them in the hope of preventing them from disrupting their business by attacking and killing their animals for food. But that's just a theory of mine.

Either way, I didn't make this thread to advocate domesticating them. It's just something that's been on my mind, and I wondered if other people felt the same way about it. But maybe I'm wrong, and all those videos i've seen is nothing more then me overreacting.

The One Doctor

Nah, there'll just be a big increase in the number of people with rabies. So if you see an American drooling, run.

BoJack Horseman

Have the kids on the hunting forum not killed them all yet?

The King of Moo

I think in 1,000,000 years, we'll have ears the size of cups, to hear things better, numbers on our fingertips to ring people, and foxes will be 8-foot tall and communicate with each other telepathically.

Mr_Muffin

We need to integrate different animals into Ireland, stuff like Rhinos and Giraffes.

I must say that the animals we currently have are crap, they either hide in the bushes every time you try and go near them or they just don't do anything interesting. Imagine looking out your window in the morning and seeing Giraffes tower over the trees.

Duckworth_Luas

Why stop at domesticating foxes? I say we all get honey badgers as pets.

My name is URL

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

We need to integrate different animals into Ireland, stuff like Rhinos and Giraffes.

I must say that the animals we currently have a crap, they either hide in the bushes every time you try and go near them or they just don't do anything interesting. Imagine looking out your window in the morning and seeing Giraffes tower over the trees.

Bring back the wolf! It'd make going for a walk in the countryside a whole lot more interesting.

kowloon

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Why stop at domesticating foxes? I say we all get honey badgers as pets.

The Honey Badger doesn't give a shit about your efforts at domestication, he's crazy!

Riddle101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipSTntA_Znw

Why stop at domesticating foxes? I say we all get honey badgers as pets.

Maybe even Wolves and Bobcats too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw39mkwi7dg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_d99cw4eqM

dodderangler

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Have the kids on the hunting forum not killed them all yet?

So we are kids now?
Fox population is out of control now more so in towns and cities.

Fr_Dougal

A mate of mine has tried...hard to know who has domesticated who at times...

petrolcan

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-sJ04AmTjf6k/TA6o8cB3HOI/AAAAAAAAQMs/NuZ4_LflhpQ/w954-h636-no/IMG_3605.jpg

the evasion_kid

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Have the kids on the hunting forum not killed them all yet?

That forum is disgraceful

Wibbs

Hmm an interesting one Riddle. It might well happen if what you're describing becomes more widespread. Both dogs and cats (very basically)became domesticated because some of their wild ancestors hung around close to our settlements and over time the more forward, less aggressive(and less fearful) ones preselected themselves as good companions and useful additions. Then we started to further preselect for traits we found useful and the cat and especially the dog came from that(a cat is "wilder" and more close to its wild cousin behaviourally, the dog is very much removed from the wolf). It might well happen with foxes if this kinda interaction continues and becomes more widespread, especially if people start breeding them).

What might be more useful in today's world? Dogs need more interaction and attention than cats(obviously as a general rule). Cats are much more into doing their own thing outside our homes, which is useful in today's world were fewer of us are at home during the day. We bred that independence out of the domestic dog(for the most part), because as an apex predator they're simply more dangerous if left to their own devices without our control. Cats may kill the odd sparrow rat or mouse as solitary hunters, but dogs could and sometimes do take down livestock and feral dogs have been known to take down people and they can form packs. Not so good.

Foxes on the other hand would be about the same danger level as cats and would be pretty independent too as they don't form up into gangs the way dogs do. They'd be a Dogcat(tm) really. An ideal mix of both pets, but more appealing to "dog people".

An uncle of mine had a "pet" fox when I was a kid. Found him as an abandoned cub that hung around his garden for a couple of days. He was hyper as feck, pretty fearful too, only responded to my uncle, but followed him around like a lapdog. In my teens I used to see a woman in the area with a fox on a lead and it was remarkably placid and "trained" looking.

Chris_Heilong

Riddle101 wrote: »

Maybe even Wolves and Bobcats too.

Wolves are already domesticated, they are called dogs. In Russia they have fully domesticated some foxes, it started as an experiment to see if it was possible. The domesticated foxes display different colors to their wild kin, simular to how dogs started to change from wolves.

More examples of seemingly wild animals making the chanfe would be the ferret, which is a domesticated Polecat, Raccoon's are becoming domesticated in America and Canada, who knows whats next.

--LOS--

I think you'll find that all animals are emotional beings, they all have far greater intelligence and capacity for emotion than most people give them credit for. The only thing that's different is we are documenting it more and there's this trend of sharing cute videos of animals online which maybe helps some people have more empathy for them, most people don't actually have genuine empathy for animals. I don't really see what you're talking about in Ireland anyway, foxes are widely hunted in Ireland and still heavily farmed for fur elsewhere. There was always foxes around the house at home but now it is a rare sighting thanks to hunters.

BoJack Horseman

dodderangler wrote: »

So we are kids now?
Fox population is out of control now more so in towns and cities.

No, of course not.

Kids probably don't get a hard on for shooting animals.
(And they certainly wouldn't pretend its some sort of altruistic public service!)

Witcher

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

No, of course not.

Kids probably don't get a hard on for shooting animals.
(And they certainly wouldn't pretend its some sort of altruistic public service!)

Christ...

dodderangler

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

No, of course not.

Kids probably don't get a hard on for shooting animals.
(And they certainly wouldn't pretend its some sort of altruistic public service!)

Oh good god another one

BoJack Horseman

dodderangler wrote: »

Oh good god another one

Another one who doesn't get a chub from sitting in a cold ditch shooting at animals?

Damn straight.

--LOS--

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Wolves are already domesticated, they are called dogs. In Russia they have fully domesticated some foxes, it started as an experiment to see if it was possible. The domesticated foxes display different colors to their wild kin, simular to how dogs started to change from wolves.

More examples of seemingly wild animals making the chanfe would be the ferret, which is a domesticated Polecat, Raccoon's are becoming domesticated in America and Canada, who knows whats next.

Russian experimental domestication of foxes is just Russians selecting and breeding the most easily exploitable foxes for fur farming. Ye, nice 'experiment'

Manach

Offhand, in the book "Defence of Dogs" the author pointed out a Russian project that has been ongoing for several decades. Its aim was the domestication of a type of Arctic Fox. Despite all the various regime changes, tame and friendly variants have been breed. These are apparently popular as pets in Japan and America.

wendell borton

I was something on BBC about the Russian fox domestication experiment, they seem to make great pets but it take nearly fifty years of selective breeding.

dodderangler

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Another one who doesn't get a chub from sitting in a cold ditch shooting at animals?

Damn straight.

Sitting in a ditch?
Shows just how uneducated you are about hunting doesn't it .

The other fella

I read something about a scientist who observed some foxes who different people were trying to domesticate and there were devastating results.The foxes could form no bond to the humans training them and any that were held captive for more than a certain amount of time became physically sick and mentally stressed.

I also read something before about animal domestication that had 6 or 7 points that an animal has to have to be considered able to be domesticated and foxes dont meet the criteria.

Frankie Lee

My Grandmother had a pet hare before. It made a great pet apparently especially with people he knew but would hide around strangers. Extremely intelligent.

Wibbs

Chris_Heilong wrote:

Wolves are already domesticated, they are called dogs.

Exactly. Actually I reckon of all the wild animals like foxes, wildcats, bobcats, lynxes et al, wolves would be about the last one you'd pick, if you were of a mind to pick. It's not so surprising that previous humans to us didn't, or at least we have zero evidence for it(though it's possible there were isolated incidences). They're extremely powerful, unpredictable and potentially very dangerous animals. There's a good reason why they have been feared/admired/respected in many cultures.

Attempts have been made since at least classical times to keep them as pets. They were popular at various times with Roman emperors and such(the Romulus and Remus story no doubt being a draw), but with very variable success.

Funny enough the Irish Brehon laws mention them as pets(though herons of all things appear to be the most popular, badgers and foxes are in there too) and lay down various penalties should your pet wolf eat your neighbour's livestock. Interestingly unlike today they don't say the wolf should be killed, but that the owner is responsible and he or she pays up. IE "Jayzuz Liam it's a wolf FFS *good doggie*, what the hell did you expect leaving him roam? Sure t'isn't his nature like you gobshíte *oh who's a lovely doggie. Yes you are. Oh yes you are*"

The late 19th century types were into it too. The guy who started the German shepherd breed had one as a pet and the early Shepherds had wolf blood in the lines. For some reason they found it easier, maybe because they were the European subspecies(they seem more tractable)? Even crossing wolves with domestic breeds in a controlled manner which has been done a few times in the 20the century(Sarloos/Czech/Lupo Italiano) has led to breeds that are not quite "dog" and either twitchy as fook or real brutes that need expert handling(the Lupo Italiano is illegal to own for civilians). Apparently they do make bloody amazing tracking/mountain rescue dogs with incredible stamina. Though I'm not sure that the best thing to see if you're a lost or injured skier is what looks like a wolf hammering through the snow towards you. I'd poo myself so much the human handler would smell me from two miles away.

The suburban fox would be a much easier bet IMH, if that was your thing. I have noticed in my lifetime them becoming more forward, less fearful, less likely to spook as soon as they see me in the garden.

Wibbs

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Another one who doesn't get a chub from sitting in a cold ditch shooting at animals?

In fairness if you're looking for a chub a trotted maggot in a suitable river or canal might be your better bet, though you may get a bream instead.

dodderangler

Wibbs wrote: »

In fairness if you're looking for a chub a trotted maggot in a suitable river or canal might be your better bet, though you may get a bream instead.

Bread also will work

The other fella

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

We need to integrate different animals into Ireland, stuff like Rhinos and Giraffes.

I must say that the animals we currently have are crap, they either hide in the bushes every time you try and go near them or they just don't do anything interesting. Imagine looking out your window in the morning and seeing Giraffes tower over the trees.

This is definitely true.We need a cooler selection of animals around the place.

Wibbs

dodderangler wrote: »

Bread also will work

The very fact I know that D, will have my dearly departed dry fly "silk lines are better dammit!" trout and salmon fishing dad haunting me from the hereafter.

Sclosages

I had a pet sheep.

Turtwig

--LOS-- wrote: »

Russian experimental domestication of foxes is just Russians selecting and breeding the most easily <insert desired trait here>. Ye, nice 'experiment'

That's how pretty much every animal was domesticated. Heaven forbid if any dog gains enough sentience to learn how his kind came to be such adorable pets in the first place. They might not look to fondly at us. Or I suspect because we've so wonderfully domesticated them they'll love us anyway as that's what we conditioned them to do.

Yep, I believe foxes can become pets.

Wibbs

The other fella wrote: »

This is definitely true.We need a cooler selection of animals around the place.

Well one animal that is often forgotten in the west that was domesticated was the cheetah. Used like hunting dogs in India. Bloody fast hunting dogs mind you. For an Irish angle, back in the 19th century and IIRC the story, an Indian chap brought a couple of prize hunting cheetahs to the Phoenix park in Dublin to show off their prowess in hunting deer. So far so good, however the local Jackeen deer were not aware of the cheetah and likely thought "eh WTF is this overgrown cat think he's doing?" and one was killed and the other injured by a stag who bellowed in Deer "do you know the five lamps, pal".

Sclosages

Wibbs wrote: »

Well one animal that is often forgotten in the west that was domesticated was the cheetah. Used like hunting dogs in India. Bloody fast hunting dogs mind you. For an Irish angle, back in the 19th century and IIRC the story, an Indian chap brought a couple of prize hunting cheetahs to the Phoenix park in Dublin to show off their prowess in hunting deer. So far so good, however the local Jackeen deer were not aware of the cheetah and likely thought "eh WTF is this overgrown cat think he's doing?" and one was killed and the other injured by a stag who bellowed in Deer "do you know the five lamps, pal".

I think that was actually a dog. Called Fenton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU

Wibbs

Sclosages wrote: »

I had a pet sheep.

Sheep are a lot more clever than many believe IMH. It's been proven they recognise faces, both of their own kind and people they know and show affection or not depending. Goats are savvy feckers too.

My mum knew a woman who grew up on a farm and raised a bull from a calf and she and only she could deal with him when he was fully grown. She would call him by name and he'd come a running for a scratch behind the ear and under the chin. I even saw photos of her sitting on his back. :eek: Bulls are, or can be extremely dangerous and unpredictable animals and kill a remarkable amount of people every year. A very real danger for our farming brothers and sisters. Yet with her he was a complete dote. Mad. Maybe it was the mutual respect thing going on? And this bull wasn't one of those lanky Spanish bulls that midgets in spangly spandex "fight" with a cape and an "Ole". Actually I'd love to put one of those heavy hitting Irish mofo's in against Pedro and his cape. See how many "Ole's" you can muster you prancing tool while Podge the two tonne Mayo bull wears you as a ****ing necklace.

The other fella

Wibbs wrote: »

Sheep are a lot more clever than many believe IMH. It's been proven they recognise faces, both of their own kind and people they know and show affection or not depending. Goats are savvy feckers too.

My mum knew a woman who grew up on a farm and raised a bull from a calf and she and only she could deal with him when he was fully grown. She would call him by name and he'd come a running for a scratch behind the ear and under the chin. I even saw photos of her sitting on his back. :eek: Bulls are, or can be extremely dangerous and unpredictable animals and kill a remarkable amount of people every year. A very real danger for our farming brothers and sisters. Yet with her he was a complete dote. Mad. Maybe it was the mutual respect thing going on? And this bull wasn't one of those lanky Spanish bulls that midgets in spangly spandex "fight" with a cape and an "Ole". Actually I'd love to put one of those heavy hitting Irish mofo's in against Pedro and his cape. See how many "Ole's" you can muster you prancing tool while Podge the two tonne Mayo bull wears you as a ****ing necklace.

Not a fan of the old bull fighting then?

Sclosages

Wibbs wrote: »

Sheep are a lot more clever than many believe IMH. It's been proven they recognise faces, both of their own kind and people they know and show affection or not depending. Goats are savvy feckers too.

My mum knew a woman who grew up on a farm and raised a bull from a calf and she and only she could deal with him when he was fully grown. She would call him by name and he'd come a running for a scratch behind the ear and under the chin. I even saw photos of her sitting on his back. :eek: Bulls are, or can be extremely dangerous and unpredictable animals and kill a remarkable amount of people every year. A very real danger for our farming brothers and sisters. Yet with her he was a complete dote. Mad. Maybe it was the mutual respect thing going on? And this bull wasn't one of those lanky Spanish bulls that midgets in spangly spandex "fight" with a cape and an "Ole". Actually I'd love to put one of those heavy hitting Irish mofo's in against Pedro and his cape. See how many "Ole's" you can muster you prancing tool while Podge the two tonne Mayo bull wears you as a ****ing necklace.

I think there can be an element of respect for the master. I reared the lamb and I think when she was a sheep and reared lambs of her own, she adopted me as one of her babies or something. Strange, but you'd have to understand her to understand. Or have seen her or met her. Best sheep ever.

WoollyRedHat

What does the fox say?

Sclosages

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

What does the fox say?

Never believe a word they say.

The other fella

Sclosages wrote: »

I think there can be an element of respect for the master. I reared the lamb and I think when she was a sheep and reared lambs of her own, she adopted me as one of her babies or something. Strange, but you'd have to understand her to understand. Or have seen her or met her. Best sheep ever.

chris.jpg

cerastes

Riddle101 wrote: »

I've noticed a lot of youtube videos recently, where foxes seem to be taken in or adopted as pets.

I wonder if this practice continues, will foxes eventually become domesticated animals like dogs and cat. I mean at one point cats and dogs were wild animals too. But over time they have since become apart of society. Maybe within the next 100 years foxes will follow the same path.
Farmers might do it too. As an alternative to killing them, they might domesticate them in the hope of preventing them from disrupting their business by attacking and killing their animals for food. But that's just a theory of mine.

Either way, I didn't make this thread to advocate domesticating them. It's just something that's been on my mind, and I wondered if other people felt the same way about it. But maybe I'm wrong, and all those videos i've seen is nothing more then me overreacting.

Dogs and cats have been domesticated over millenia, so I dont think its going to happen widespread to foxes over a hundred years, maybe some foxes have traits that make them more suitad for it though.
I doubt farmers would have the time to be dealing with that, I think the reason they are dealt with is as much for concern disrupting their business by diseases and pests they may carry?

Personally, I couldnt bring myself to shoot them, but I dont have livestock and my livliehood doesnt rely on it, although I thought foxes might help to keep other pests down naturally they are more natural here, I could shoot grey squirrels but thats probably an inefficient way to do that, I doubt you could even get them all, one small pocket and they'd reintroduce. Maybe foxes might be encouraged to do this by some means, maybe making access/contact to farm animals less likely, like lambs??

Im happy enough to see foxes in suburbia, and its rare enough, but they always seem shy and wary, and its only ever been the case when I caught them in the headlights or Id never have seen them. Im sure they are providing some usefulness in suburbia, maybe they deter rats? they will eat mice.

Mr_Muffin wrote: »

We need to integrate different animals into Ireland, stuff like Rhinos and Giraffes.

I must say that the animals we currently have are crap, they either hide in the bushes every time you try and go near them or they just don't do anything interesting. Imagine looking out your window in the morning and seeing Giraffes tower over the trees.

How about wooly mammoths or brontosauruses?

The other fella wrote: »

I also read something before about animal domestication that had 6 or 7 points that an animal has to have to be considered able to be domesticated and foxes dont meet the criteria.

Its amazing how close they must be to dogs, but their traits have been bred for a long time. Either we or they lucked out, maybe both and thats why it succeeded, so there is no need for any attempt to do it to foxes, besides feeding an injured animal and re-releasing it.

Frankie Lee wrote: »

My Grandmother had a pet hare before. It made a great pet apparently especially with people he knew but would hide around strangers. Extremely intelligent.

Could do crosswords? converse in many languages? what could it do?

WoollyRedHat

Sclosages wrote: »

Never believe a word they say.

But they talk to me and pay me compliments like how I'm such a magnificient dancer and how I should of been the one to have invented riverdance.

Sclosages

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

But they talk to me and pay me compliments like how I'm such a magnificient dancer and how I should of been the one to have invented riverdance.

Nyess..........

deco nate

Believe it or not I have seen a man with a fox on a lead between kill Kenny and Clonmel, not sure of the name of the town.. Callen? Anyway seen them both many times, first time I saw them I was like Wtf did I just see? A man waiting to cross the road with a fox standing on his shoulders! I thought I had an acid flash back, nope seen him and the Fox a good few times afterwards. This was about 5-6 years ago.

Also I'm near sure their was a thread on here talking about the same man and fox years ago, but it may have been Facebook.

Wibbs

Sclosages wrote: »

I think that was actually a dog. Called Fenton.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GRSbr0EYYU

Ah man that cheered me up no end S. "Fentaaauuuun!!" the poor hound was likely pissed off by being called Fenton, so decided to show his true mettle. And that folks is a perfect example of why we don't let our doggies roam the way we let our cats roam. I mean Fenton(I prefer the name Rasher pal) is only a wee dog and he's making a herd of deer many times his size run away. His hard on must have been dragging on the ground and slowing him down. Actually cats are no angels either, I've seen one do the same thing with a flock of ducks and geese.

Cats can be right hardarses too.

Irish cat versus fox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kzyffAggI4

Cat reckons eagle may be a good meal, but then because of good sense thinks better of it.

Very cool one where a cat saves one of her family(who she adopted years previously) from a vicious dog attack and likely saved that lad's life as that dog was in full prey attack mode looking to drag him away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSG_wBiTEE8

Note how she uses her entire bodyweight to judo the fook outa the much heavier dog. Even after that she pressed on with her attack. Damn cool moggie that one.

Cats can be right cool furry bastids.

naughtysmurf

We have a cat that interacts with the local fox in a playful manner, it's like they are buddies, really strange to watch

deco nate

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055587780/1/#post60614629

Found it, the man with a pet fox!

cerastes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4asZ6LILO4&index=1&list=PLF4B63F0482170B63

Sclosages

Love the cat saving the little boy. Pure maternal instinct there I think.

Sclosages

that's why I believe the sheep loved me until her dotage. she genuinely took me on, even though I was the one who had minded her.