Countering religious extremism in Ireland

Zebra3 · 30-11-2014 11:06AM #1

RTÉ and the rest of the mainstream media seem delighted that a bunch of religious extremists have vandalised Carrauntoohill by placing a divisive religious symbol on top of it.

Why are the guards not moving against these vandals who were openly breaking the law on tv yesterday? Are the local council going to do anything?

Why do some Christians think they have the right to conquer public space with their propaganda?

RobYourBuilder · 30-11-2014 11:18AM

The Cross was sited on private land.

Why are the guards not moving against these vandals who were openly breaking the law on tv yesterday?

They had the land owners permission to reinstate the Cross.

Are the local council going to do anything?

No, why would they?

longshanks · 30-11-2014 11:21AM

Question asked. Question answered. Lock it up.

keeponhurling · 30-11-2014 11:23AM

My blood is boiling with anger at the thought of people having different religious beliefs than the OP

Mr. Incognito · 30-11-2014 11:24AM

I see no difference between militant atheists and religious fundamentalists.

Its humans nature to declare " their" label / belief the only one and belittle /scorn / mock attack anyone with a different opinion be that religion, music, politics, economic ideas.

We are a petty violent race. Even your opening post is a sneer advocating your own view and welcoming people to agree or disagree.

Personally, who gives a monkeys.

RobertKK · 30-11-2014 11:27AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

RTÉ and the rest of the mainstream media seem delighted that a bunch of religious extremists have vandalised Carrauntoohill by placing a divisive religious symbol on top of it.

Why are the guards not moving against these vandals who were openly breaking the law on tv yesterday? Are the local council going to do anything?

Why do some Christians think they have the right to conquer public space with their propaganda?

lol, it was not religious extremism.

The only people with a problem are those who view a cross as a problem.

The Gardai were involved and investigated the site as a crime scene when the cross was cut down.

The only extremism is from people who see a cross as being a form of religious extremism.
Must be terrible going around the country, into town and cities where you see crosses on some buildings, maybe where somebody died on the side of the road, graveyards must be highly offensive.

The land on the mountain is privately owned and the owners gave the go-ahead for the cross to be put back up, everyone from that area wanted it back up.

It is ridiculous how a cross offends some people.

bodice ripper · 30-11-2014 11:27AM

Ireland's most elderly graffiti taggers go 3d...

corner of hells · 30-11-2014 11:28AM

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I see no difference between militant atheists and religious fundamentalists.

Its humans nature to declare " their" label / belief the only one and belittle /scorn / mock attack anyone with a different opinion be that religion, music, politics, economic ideas.

We are a petty violent race. Even your opening post is a sneer advocating your own view and welcoming people to agree or disagree.

Personally, who gives a monkeys.

What type of monkey would you like ? It just so happens I have a spider monkey and a squirrel monkey for sale , both should make excellent Christmas presents for the loved one in your life.

Riamfada · 30-11-2014 11:32AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

RTÉ and the rest of the mainstream media seem delighted that a bunch of religious extremists have vandalised Carrauntoohill by placing a divisive religious symbol on top of it.

Why are the guards not moving against these vandals who were openly breaking the law on tv yesterday? Are the local council going to do anything?

Why do some Christians think they have the right to conquer public space with their propaganda?

This is hilarious. And obviously quite trollish and ignorant.

Red Pepper · 30-11-2014 11:37AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

RTÉ and the rest of the mainstream media seem delighted that a bunch of religious extremists have vandalised Carrauntoohill by placing a divisive religious symbol on top of it.

Why are the guards not moving against these vandals who were openly breaking the law on tv yesterday? Are the local council going to do anything?

Why do some Christians think they have the right to conquer public space with their propaganda?

Explain and prove the bit in bold Mr Zebra by the time the Angelus rings.

Bubbaclaus · 30-11-2014 11:38AM

Living in a country that is becoming more diverse all the time I do find it a bit concerning as to why we need a crucifix up there. Would people have an issue if Jewish, Muslim or other religious symbolism was also put up there?

It's the tallest mountain in Ireland. Having a symbol that only represents a certain demographic on top of it doesn't sit easy with me.

RobertKK · 30-11-2014 11:43AM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Living in a country that is becoming more diverse all the time I do find it a bit concerning as to why we need a crucifix up there. Would people have an issue if Jewish, Muslim or other religious symbolism was also put up there?

It's the tallest mountain in Ireland. Having a symbol that only represents a certain demographic on top of it doesn't sit easy with me.

It is private property, you can erect those on your own property if you wish.

These particular owners are happy to have a cross on their property. We shouldn't be telling people what religious symbols they can or can't have on private property.

I suspect planning permission was not needed due to the height not being over regulations for a feature.
A person can put up a wind turbine on their property without planning permission if it is under a certain height.

Bubbaclaus · 30-11-2014 11:47AM

RobertKK wrote: »

It is private property, you can erect those on your own property if you wish.

These particular owners are happy to have a cross on their property. We shouldn't be telling people what religious symbols they can or can't have on private property.

I suspect planning permission was not needed due to the height not being over regulations for a feature.
A person can put up a wind turbine on their property without planning permission if it is under a certain height.

Private property or not it is still a national landmark and it doesn't seem right to have a big symbol right at the top of it only representing a certain demographic.

Just my opinion.

Tail Docker · 30-11-2014 11:52AM

It makes people cross, but I think they're marking a mountain out of an oldhill.

MRnotlob606 · 30-11-2014 11:52AM

All religions are wrong and I am definitely right about everything.Militant atheist worldview.

keithclancy · 30-11-2014 11:52AM

Atheists can be as bad as Religious types.

Forcing a belief of non belief on others is just as bad as the opposite.

I'm in the camp of believing whatever i choose to believe (and not pushing it on others) up until the point that it conflicts with other beliefs/religions on the basic fair treatment of human beings.

E.G.
Education for women
The choice of joining a religion when you are old enough to do so and not when you are a child
The right to live and have children with someone without the need to have some sort of religious contract.
The right for women to wear whatever without being deemed dirty or evil.

For me that thing was just a metal cross that some men put on a hill many years ago.

It wasn't a Swastica or something

MRnotlob606 · 30-11-2014 11:53AM

Just leave the cross there !Christ it never caused any offence.

Riamfada · 30-11-2014 11:53AM

Those who call for it to be taken down are religious extremists, they just dont see it.

fran17 · 30-11-2014 12:02PM

I'm just home from mass and I noticed that those bloody extremists put one of those symbols on the building and also on three other buildings on my drive home!

looksee · 30-11-2014 12:04PM

I would consider myself to be more atheist than anything else, and I do not have a great deal of time for religion. I can't get worked up about this cross though. It was put up when attitudes were rather different, and individuals do not have a right to vandalise anything. It has to be replaced or the vandals have won. What next, celtic crosses all around the country? They are all part of the history and culture of the country. There are also neolithic graves carefully preserved, do we pull them down as well?

If I were asked to vote on a new religious symbol being placed in a public area I would probably vote against, but this is different, it is vandalism by a few who feel entitled to inflict their opinions on everyone else.

Firefox11 · 30-11-2014 12:06PM

What ever happened to that fella that used to carry a cross around the country which had a handy wheel on the end. I don't see him around any more.

Tail Docker · 30-11-2014 12:10PM

Firefox11 wrote: »

What ever happened to that fella that used to carry a cross around the country which had a handy wheel on the end. I don't see him around any more.

His feet were crucifying him, he had to stop.

Red Pepper · 30-11-2014 12:59PM

keithclancy wrote: »

It wasn't a Swastica or something

I thought the swastika was a cross of some sort.

hfallada · 30-11-2014 01:06PM

After a while religious symbols are no longer just religious symbols but an icon of an area. Like the statue of Jesus in Rio de Janeiro in Brazil. With Brazil no longer being that Catholic, should the Jesus statue be removed? No as its the icon of the city.

Atheist removing these symbols are just taking their intolerance of religion to another level. Im not religious but Im not going to loss sleep over a cross at the top of a mountain. For a intercultural society, people need to be tolerant of each other. As secularism has failed in places like France. Where as in Catholic Quebec, the region didnt dilute its culture to integrate its immigrants. It remained Catholic and French speaking. It thought its heritage to newly arrived immigrants and as a result, its multicultural society has fewer issues than secular countries like France

Cantremember · 30-11-2014 01:08PM

It's on private land, doesn't seem to require planning permission and is completely silly. I hope a Muslim, a Jew, a Hindu, a Sikh, a Zoroastrian, a Buddhist, a Mormon, a Scientologist, a devotee of the spaghetti monster all buy land on Kerry mountains, maybe even Carantuhil. And they all put up giant symbols of their beliefs. The crowning glory would be a fertility cult with symbols of human genitalia. It could be a new theme park for Kerry, sales of Flat caps could soar and it would be an Irish Disneyland.

diomed · 30-11-2014 01:13PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Why do some Christians think they have the right to conquer public space with their propaganda?

I think Ireland is different from the USA. All land in Ireland is owned, most privately, while in the USA a high percentage is government owned "public lands".
Don't go gold prospecting in Ireland.

keithclancy · 30-11-2014 01:19PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

I thought the swastika was a cross of some sort.

No, your thinking of the Swastika that's the other way around used in Hinduism/Buddhism.

Usually has a dot in each square.

shruikan2553 · 30-11-2014 01:19PM

I think it is weird to put a religious symbol at the top of the highest mountain in the country but I struggle to care too much. Put a McDonalds up there for all I care.

stimpson · 30-11-2014 01:21PM

I love the way people assume atheists did this. It could have just as easily been the People's Front of Judea.

All things considered, how do we not know that it wasn't gods will that it be cut down. Personally speaking, if I was God and people were putting up representations of the murder weapon used to kill my son I'd be pretty pissed off. I'd be smiting those people like there was no tomorrow. Think Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Ficton.

Cantremember · 30-11-2014 01:25PM

stimpson wrote: »

I love the way people assume atheists did this. It could have just as easily been the People's Front of Judea.

All things considered, how do we not know that it wasn't gods will that it be cut down. Personally speaking, if I was God and people were putting up representations of the murder weapon used to kill my son I'd be pretty pissed off. I'd be smiting those people like there was no tomorrow. Think Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Ficton.

But you're forgetting that he willed his son dead as an atonement sacrifice to himself to make up for all the bad people. He'd better start smiting himself. POW! KerPLLAAAAT!

shruikan2553 · 30-11-2014 01:26PM

stimpson wrote: »

I love the way people assume atheists did this. It could have just as easily been the People's Front of Judea.

All things considered, how do we not know that it wasn't gods will that it be cut down. Personally speaking, if I was God and people were putting up representations of the murder weapon used to kill my son I'd be pretty pissed off. I'd be smiting those people like there was no tomorrow. Think Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp Ficton.

The atheists are big into religious violence, just look at the north! I'm just confused on if I am meant to be a rebellious teenager living at home or if I'm a big strong guy carrying powertools up the highest mountain in the country.

Countering religious extremism in Ireland

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