RTE report: Bill makes purchasing sexual services an offence

al22 · 28-11-2014 10:10AM

To avoid prosection .... do not pay! :-)

28-11-2014 10:10AM

KungPao wrote: »

So I can't say "**** Jesus!", or buy a few cans after ****ing 10PM, smoke a bit of hash, visit Pirate Bay (without a tinkering), and now, I can't pay some lady for some lovin'...a business transaction between two consenting adults, let's not forget.

Ya gotta love Ireland.

What country in the world can you do all of the above?

SEPT 23 1989 · 28-11-2014 10:15AM

Far right catholic headbangers are embedded in every institution in this country

keithclancy · 28-11-2014 10:17AM

rusty cole wrote: »

very well said mate, there a people who are depressed, not great looking, handicapped, disfigured, socially awkward etc etc.
listen, it doesn't matter what, if a person is ok with accepting money for sex, then I think that's their business and it should be left alone.

there are basic human needs, heat, food, water, love and sex!! apparently without them, people can die or without the latter two, lead a very sad and lonely existence!! I'm all for bludgeoning human traffickers but realy, clamping down on prostitution is not the way. I'm sure countries where it's decriminalised would serve to show this.... poor catholic Ireland.. the Vatican is full of hookers and rent boys and we still suffer the guilt and dogma.

They should just legalise it and have a red light district in Cavan.

Sure nobody gives a sh1t about Cavan anyway.

28-11-2014 10:22AM

how can anyone distinguish if you paid the girl for sex or paid her to leave your apartment?? eh ?? eh??? awwww come on...:D

Day Lewin · 28-11-2014 10:57AM

@rusty cole
How can the girl report an assault or even explain an injury without admitting that she has committed a crime?
This redoubles her vulnerability.

keithclancy · 28-11-2014 11:06AM

Gennady Golovkin10 wrote: »

And if you visit their apartment just say you paid over the odds for a glass of water.

Seems like you've been to those places with expensive bottles of champagne.

whupdedo · 28-11-2014 11:12AM

katemarch wrote: »

@rusty cole
How can the girl report an assault or even explain an injury without admitting that she has committed a crime?
This redoubles her vulnerability.

Exactly, which is why this bill is actually a regressive step in protecting the people in the industry, pushing the whole thing underground MIGHT stop the ordinary punter, but the guy that is going to commit acts of aggression toward an escort won't give 2 fcuks what laws are in place

strobe · 28-11-2014 11:19AM

Presumably guys across the country will continue to pay girls across the country strictly and exclusively for their time and companionship, and should they happen to trip over each other and accidentally have sex during that time, well that's an entirely unrelated and legal twist of fate.

Strong Life in Dublin · 28-11-2014 11:29AM

It could of been even worse, recommendations of the Justice Committee report wanted to treat the viewing of online escort ads as being the same as view child pornography.

newport2 · 28-11-2014 12:13PM

strobe wrote: »

Presumably guys across the country will continue to pay girls across the country strictly and exclusively for their time and companionship, and should they happen to trip over each other and accidentally have sex during that time, well that's an entirely unrelated and legal twist of fate.

"Your honour, I can honestly swear I did not pay her for sex. I paid her to leave after sex."

newport2 · 28-11-2014 12:14PM

katemarch wrote: »

@rusty cole
How can the girl report an assault or even explain an injury without admitting that she has committed a crime?
This redoubles her vulnerability.

This was a symbolic victory for certain groups, nothing to do with helping those in a vulnerable situation

suicide_circus · 28-11-2014 12:57PM

There's a bang of misogynistic rape culture off this thread

Grayson · 28-11-2014 01:19PM

mariaalice wrote: »

What country in the world can you do all of the above?

Netherlands?
To be fair, except for the hash you can do the rest of it in nearly every country in Europe.

Yuri Checkov · 28-11-2014 01:20PM

As a regular user of escorts and escort websites I feel I must comment.

I use escorts maybe twice a month and I have never hurt anyone by my actions. To me it is just a hobby, some people collect stamps, I likes to have sex with beautiful ladies. That is my business. I am not driving around the city centre slowly being a dick, everything is done off street and is fully above board. The lady wants to be in the line of work she is in, we are both happy with the business relationship.

But no, the catholic church and it's agents such as TROL and the nuns want to spoil my fun. But no, they won't. The law in it's current guise will be almost impossible to enforce and tbh it is not going to affect seasoned punters like me one bit. The holy joes can rejoice that they are striking a blow against trafficking but the reality will be that the status quo will continue.

In short nothing is going to change and people will continue to buy sex.

Grayson · 28-11-2014 01:20PM

Federror wrote: »

Can only assume you are being sarcastic.

I can smell something iffy here too.

keithclancy · 28-11-2014 01:46PM

Yuri Checkov wrote: »

As a regular user of escorts and escort websites I feel I must comment.

I use escorts maybe twice a month and I have never hurt anyone by my actions. To me it is just a hobby, some people collect stamps, I likes to have sex with beautiful ladies. That is my business. I am not driving around the city centre slowly being a dick, everything is done off street and is fully above board. The lady wants to be in the line of work she is in, we are both happy with the business relationship.

But no, the catholic church and it's agents such as TROL and the nuns want to spoil my fun. But no, they won't. The law in it's current guise will be almost impossible to enforce and tbh it is not going to affect seasoned punters like me one bit. The holy joes can rejoice that they are striking a blow against trafficking but the reality will be that the status quo will continue.

In short nothing is going to change and people will continue to buy sex.

I've met a few prostitutes while living here in NL (in a social scenario, not a have sex with scenario)

To be fair there is still a lot of pimping and human trafficing that goes on.

Also by it's very private nature it can be dangerous for the girls.

There a good few that work for themselves or work in a group together usually with a older 'Madam' running things.

But there is also a lot of prostitutes forced to work, or illegally trafficed from Russia/Asia.

And unfortunately usually these shady characters are linked to the drugs trade and can try to move in on well established brothels.

So to say it hurts nobody and that legalising it solves everything is not specifically true, its just a high risk job, like working on an oil rig.

valoren · 28-11-2014 01:49PM

They tried the same thing with Prohibition. That worked well.

Where there's a will(y), there will always be a way.

The sex trade has not gone away now that a Bill has been passed.

All this will do is drive the sex trade deeper underground making it even harder for law enforcement agencies to police it and it also alienates the people affected by the sex trade further from getting the services and rights they need.

biko · 28-11-2014 01:59PM

I think it's good the Swedish model is adapted that prohibits the purchase of sexual favours but not the selling.

The women are just victims often trafficked here and set up, not uncommon by their own countrymen already living here, as prostitutes in some flat somewhere.
They were promised work as waitresses etc but upon arrival their passport is taken away and they are told they now owe money to someone for transporting them here and they need to whore themselves out to pay this debt.

However, it seems that in Sweden this model has caused a lot of the prostitution to go even further underground.

The other option would of course be to legalise it like Holland and control it that way.

Either way, the traffickers/pimps are the main criminals here and should be jailed long term and deported as needed.

keithclancy · 28-11-2014 02:01PM

valoren wrote: »

They tried the same thing with Prohibition. That worked well.

Where there's a will, there will always be a way.

The sex trade has not gone away now that a Bill has been passed.

All this will do is drive the sex trade deeper underground making it even harder for law enforcement agencies to police it and it also alienates the people affected by the sex trade further from getting the services and rights they need.

I have a feeling that it almost never gets enforced because the Gardai would probably be busting Gardai :P

Yuri Checkov · 28-11-2014 02:02PM

I agree with you to a certain extent.

The trade here is mostly independent ladies that operate by themselves in business for themselves. No pimps or anyone coercing them against their will. I see mostly Irish and English ladies and they are certainly not trafficked and enjoy their work that they have chosen to do. Quite a few of them hold down 9-5 jobs and do sex work for extra income or for their own pleasure. I would never get involved in the street or brothel scene. If I ever found a trafficked person I would go to the police with my concerns.

Maybe I have been lucky and have not come across any pimps or brothels? The street scene here is very small. Looking at a escort website shows me there are 336 people advertising in Dublin.

Shep_Dog · 29-11-2014 04:09PM

Johngoose wrote: »

An awful lot of legislation being rushed through all of a sudden.

This one is quite wide-ranging. it runs the risk of failing due to be vague or over-reaching.

For example the part about 'sexual activity' in public, that could criminalise couples kissing in the park.

Grayson · 29-11-2014 04:16PM

biko wrote: »

However, it seems that in Sweden this model has caused a lot of the prostitution to go even further underground.

The other option would of course be to legalise it like Holland and control it that way.

Either way, the traffickers/pimps are the main criminals here and should be jailed long term and deported as needed.

I think I'd like it to be even more regulated than NL or DE. Possibly something like Australia. Only in licensed premises that are inspected.Records must be kept and ID's must be checked. It'd provide security and help prevent trafficking.

Fred Swanson · 29-11-2014 04:27PM

This post has been deleted.

UCDVet · 29-11-2014 04:46PM

I just don't see how it can be legal to SELL something, but ILLEGAL to BUY something. It doesn't make sense. And if you think about it a little bit, the whole thing is going to be ridiculously unenforceable.

Escorts/prostitutes/and honestly anyone who earns a living sells anything....they *want* to sell their product. That is their livelihood, it's how they pay their bills. I sell my services when I go to work each day, and if I were rich, I'd quit and never go to work again. I don't really enjoy it, I do it for the money. But, since I'm not rich, I *want* to go to work, I want to get paid.

If you make it illegal for people to buy my services....what's that going to do? I'm still going to be here *legally* selling my services. Your new laws might scare away my customers, so now I'm not able to pay my rent or feed my family. I'm unlikely to see how that is improving my situation. And the customers who aren't afraid of the law, well, who is going to report them?

NOT ME. Because I WANT customers. If I turn them in, they aren't coming back. People aren't that stupid, and especially with the internet, the world talks. If you are into escorts in Ireland, you can find all sorts of information/reviews online - just like buying a product off Amazon.

highgiant1985 · 29-11-2014 05:05PM

has this bill actually been passed or is it being reviewed / debated first?

realtalk101 · 29-11-2014 05:06PM

To do this to Irish men is cruel ! It's hard enough as it is to get laid ,pls don't compare us with sexually liberated Sweden,
Global dating is the way forward for us lonely Irish men

Fred Swanson · 29-11-2014 05:09PM

This post has been deleted.

nokia69 · 29-11-2014 06:24PM

UCDVet wrote: »

I just don't see how it can be legal to SELL something, but ILLEGAL to BUY something. It doesn't make sense. And if you think about it a little bit, the whole thing is going to be ridiculously unenforceable.

the whole thing is crazy and illogical but then thats feminism

it would be very hard to enforce but they will probably set up the odd sting operation every now and then, a small number of men will have their lives ruined just because they wanted a shag

it like going back in time to 1950s Ireland

Grayson · 29-11-2014 06:38PM

nokia69 wrote: »

the whole thing is crazy and illogical but then thats feminism

it would be very hard to enforce but they will probably set up the odd sting operation every now and then, a small number of men will have their lives ruined just because they wanted a shag

it like going back in time to 1950s Ireland

It's not feminism. Feminists are split on whether it empowers or degrades women (Personally i think it depends on the situation)

Religious people on the other hand...

RTE report: Bill makes purchasing sexual services an offence

Comments