RTE report: Bill makes purchasing sexual services an offence

SeanW

Link: http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1127/663041-sexual-offences/

Found out about this late yesterday, no thread on it at the moment. Although the bill contains some positive aspects, such as to create/strengthen laws relating to the grooming of children for abuse and child pornography, it also has some serious negatives. Essentially, Ireland is to implement the Swedish model on sex work. I.E. the buyer is always a criminal.

I'm missing a key point here: how is it that in a supposidly healthy, tolerant, free society, those who wish to criminalise sexual activites between consenting adults, can not only be taken seriously, but have their neo-Victorian, quasi-religious agenda written into a countries law?

Banjo String

Don't know who he is, but "Bill" is a fcuking spoilsport so. :mad:

Christmas parties are coming up and that will mean coke only this year, no hookers.

Son0vagun

Bill O'Herlihy?

El Guapo!

Total step in the wrong direction in my opinion.

Banjo String

Son0vagun wrote: »

Bill O'Herlihy?

Cullen.

Sh1tbag OToole

Why would someone want to pay for sexual services anyway? Pure daft thing to be doing now..

SeanW

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Why would someone want to pay for sexual services anyway? Pure daft thing to be doing now..

People who have disabilities for one thing.

Sh1tbag OToole

SeanW wrote: »

People who have disabilities for one thing.

We should organise a massive orgy for all the disabled people. Will save them a few bob

AboutaWeekAgo

Not really a massive shock that it's been made illegal, Ireland has never been at the forefront when it comes to sexual matters..well bar the Catholic Chruch of course.

Very backwards thing to do.

whupdedo

Because women's rights groups and religious nuts believe it is in everybody's best interests, in the main belief that men are basically animals who shouldn' be allowed visit an women who willingly do what she wants to do

It would of course be much more practical to regulate and tax the industry but instesd will give in to the likes of ruhama and any other groups who shout loudest

Its easy to outlaw a voiceless industry because any one voicing support for it will be castigated as being perverted or totally immoral

Mena

So if I wine and dine the missus I'm screwed (the other one)?

:-(

porsche959

Really quite depressing example of how a narrow sectional interest group can manipulate lawmakers into making laws which as far as I can gather go against the mass of public opinion.

To Elland Back

Paying for sexual services is not the problem in my opinion. What needs to be addressed is the pimping, the abuse and the trafficing

Gummy Panda

whupdedo wrote: »

Because women's rights groups and religious nuts believe it is in everybody's best interests, in the main belief that men are basically animals who shouldn' be allowed visit an women who willingly do what she wants to do

It would of course be much more practical to regulate and tax the industry but instesd will give in to the likes of ruhama and any other groups who shout loudest

Its easy to outlaw a voiceless industry because any one voicing support for it will be castigated as being perverted or totally immoral

I think the idea is that by criminalising the women, you are making a criminal out of a victim. This is based on human trafficking.

There is always going to be issues where statistics ate skewed for these organisations as victims of trafficking will be more likely to avail of their services compared to someone who is independent.

Mech1

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

We should organise a massive orgy for all the disabled people. Will save them a few bob

Anyone got the loan of a crutch?

BlaasForRafa

As if the court system isn't clogged up enough already. I think the guards time would be better spent trying to catch burglars and muggers rather than kerb-crawlers.

DeadHand

To Elland Back wrote: »

Paying for sexual services is not the problem in my opinion. What needs to be addressed is the pimping, the abuse and the trafficing

All of which could be addressed more effectively if we did the mature thing and legalised/regulated prostitution.

eviltwin

Should be legalised, maybe then we ladies could get in on the fun. I am envious of men being able to by the services of a sexual professional.

El Guapo!

eviltwin wrote: »

Should be legalised, maybe then we ladies could get in on the fun. I am envious of men being able to by the services of a sexual professional.

You do realise there's plenty of male prostitutes out there too right?

hfallada

The most shocking thing about the whole debate(or lack of it), was the male sex industry workers were not mentioned once. Plenty of men work in the industry in Ireland but were ignored. The debate was entirely one sided and only took advice from an organisation who suggested the only women in the sex industry, were trafficked women. Yet there is plenty of college educated sex workers in Ireland, who do it as a choice.

It would have been far better for the industry to be regulated like Germany. The working girls( and men) are required to pay tax and be tested regularly for STIs. But instead Ireland choose to force prostitution underground because Prohibition "works"(like in the way we no longer have drugs on our street and America did have alcohol during Prohibition.

eviltwin

El Guapo! wrote: »

You do realise there's plenty of male prostitutes out there too right?

Yes I do but not as easily found as the females

Kangoo Man

While I welcome tougher laws to deal with trafficking and child abuse. Making the act of prostitution an offence between two consenting adults is a mistake in my opinion. It will undoubtedly push prostitution even deeper underground and make it more violent. It's like drugs, there will always be a market for prostitution and there will always be scumbags who will want to profit from it, making it illegal will only increase their profits...

Lord Trollington

eviltwin wrote: »

Should be legalised, maybe then we ladies could get in on the fun. I am envious of men being able to by the services of a sexual professional.

Why.?

super_furry

What about bartering?

AboutaWeekAgo

eviltwin wrote: »

Yes I do but not as easily found as the females

PM sent.

Cienciano

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

Why would someone want to pay for sexual services anyway? Pure daft thing to be doing now..

Because not everyone wants to wine and dine a woman to get sex. Some people just want the physical act of sex and no strings attached. It's not rocket science

The_Valeyard

I'm confused....


Many of the pro choice people (Ivana Bacik) are backing legistation for this????


What happened to woman's body, woman's choice?

The other stuff for protecting kids is spot on.

KungPao

So I can't say "**** Jesus!", or buy a few cans after ****ing 10PM, smoke a bit of hash, visit Pirate Bay (without a tinkering), and now, I can't pay some lady for some lovin'...a business transaction between two consenting adults, let's not forget.

Ya gotta love Ireland.

c_man

A guy brought this news item up in random talk at lunch in work. We all now reckon he's a punter.

whupdedo

KungPao wrote: »

So I can't say "**** Jesus!", or buy a few cans after ****ing 10PM, smoke a bit of hash, visit Pirate Bay (without a tinkering), and now, I can't pay some lady for some lovin'...a business transaction between two consenting adults, let's not forget.

Ya gotta love Ireland.

It actually frightens me a little the way Ireland has gone in recent years, we seem to be heading in a direction that is only backwards, banning prostitution is wrong much the same as hash, we should move forward and tax and regulate harmless industries such as these

Men who are caught will be placed on the sex offenders list ( wtf ) for engaging in a consensual act, this is absolutely moronic, we seem to be appeasing those who shout loudest in society, the silent majority are once again speechless and without a voice

Clandestine

They're going after your online comments next. More and more things will be banned under the guise of "protection"... but really its control.

To Elland Back

DeadHand wrote: »

All of which could be addressed more effectively if we did the mature thing and legalised/regulated prostitution.

I agree. If both parties are happy with the arrangement, they should be entitled to a safe system to engage in the trade without impacting on those who prefer not to be confronted by it.

enfant terrible

Sex is dirty and need to be banned

KungPao

whupdedo wrote: »

It actually frightens me a little the way Ireland has gone in recent years, we seem to be heading in a direction that is only backwards, banning prostitution is wrong much the same as hash, we should move forward and tax and regulate harmless industries such as these

Men who are caught will be placed on the sex offenders list ( wtf ) for engaging in a consensual act, this is absolutely moronic, we seem to be appeasing those who shout loudest in society, the silent majority are once again speechless and without a voice

Agreed.
In the 90s, we made some progress from the absolute madness of before (selling condoms, divorce, homosexuality etc), but in recent years we have gone backwards.

It's actually scary.

I want an Ireland where we can buy alcohol anywhere, wherever we want (e.g. Brazil), purchase marijuana (e.g. some (and soon more) states in the US), be grown ups and have a legal and regulated sex industry, abortion etc. And things like banning ecigs in publics buildings and public transport piss me off, but that's for another thread.

KungPao

enfant terrible wrote: »

Sex is dirty and need to be banned

Not getting any? :P

enfant terrible

KungPao wrote: »

Not getting any? :P

Not now anyway

Molester Stallone II

Mech1 wrote: »

Anyone got the loan of a crotch?

Fixed that for ya

The Th!ng

The_Valeyard wrote: »

I'm confused....


Many of the pro choice people (Ivana Bacik) are backing legistation for this????


What happened to woman's body, woman's choice?

The other stuff for protecting kids is spot on.

Michael Moran is an Irish man and Interpol's head of human trafficking and child exploitation division. Recently he felt the need to remind Bacik and Denise Charlton that consensual adult prostitution does not equate to human trafficking and sexual slavery.

Meanwhile in Sweden Police turn blind eye to Swedish 'slave trade', Top prosecutor nabbed in prostitution sting

The Swedes are heavily invested in promoting the idea internationally that their laws are a success, but the reality is a lot different.

eviltwin

Is it just kerb crawling that is illegal now? What is the law in relation to hiring an escort online?

hfallada

KungPao wrote: »

Agreed.
In the 90s, we made some progress from the absolute madness of before (selling condoms, divorce, homosexuality etc), but in recent years we have gone backwards.

It's actually scary.

I want an Ireland where we can buy alcohol anywhere, wherever we want (e.g. Brazil), purchase marijuana (e.g. some (and soon more) states in the US), be grown ups and have a legal and regulated sex industry, abortion etc. And things like banning ecigs in publics buildings and public transport piss me off, but that's for another thread.

It doesnt help that our most liberal and educated are moving abroad. Plus some of our immigrants dont come from the most liberal places. I think Ireland is becoming overly PC and its mainly due the belief that broadcasters cant be biased. Its good in the sense they cant be bible mad like in the Southern States of the US. But every prime time debate generally has highly educated experts for something eg Same Sex Marriage and then some whack jobs against it, which make for good TV. A lot of former RTE employees will tell you RTE is allegedly very exploitive about certain topics for a few cheap views.

Una Mullally is about the only young journalist in Ireland. Everyone in Media in Ireland is quite old and tend to have the values of old Ireland. Irish media needs a serious shake up, which wont happen in the traditional media forms of print, tv and radio

Standman

KungPao wrote: »

So I can't say "**** Jesus!", or buy a few cans after ****ing 10PM, smoke a bit of hash, visit Pirate Bay (without a tinkering), and now, I can't pay some lady for some lovin'...a business transaction between two consenting adults, let's not forget.

Ya gotta love Ireland.

You poor thing!

KungPao

Standman wrote: »

You poor thing!

It's tragic!

Berserker

eviltwin wrote: »

Is it just kerb crawling that is illegal now? What is the law in relation to hiring an escort online?

The law relates to the purchasing of sex, so online escorting would be included in that. In reality, this will make little difference. The guards will have to prove that money has changed hands between the two parties, for the purpose of sex, to successfully prosecute the purchaser. That is going to be extremely difficult to do.

KungPao

hfallada wrote: »

It doesnt help that our most liberal and educated are moving abroad. Plus some of our immigrants dont come from the most liberal places. I think Ireland is becoming overly PC and its mainly due the belief that broadcasters cant be biased. Its good in the sense they cant be bible mad like in the Southern States of the US. But every prime time debate generally has highly educated experts for something eg Same Sex Marriage and then some whack jobs against it, which make for good TV. A lot of former RTE employees will tell you RTE is allegedly very exploitive about certain topics for a few cheap views.

Una Mullally is about the only young journalist in Ireland. Everyone in Media in Ireland is quite old and tend to have the values of old Ireland. Irish media needs a serious shake up, which wont happen in the traditional media forms of print, tv and radio

That's something that makes me bang my head of a wall. Who the hell cares? legalise it. Like it'll make a difference to anything in a negative way. Two lads/girls want to be married? Good luck and have a happy marriage. Big deal.

I hope that in the future we look back laugh at these things, but the way things are going, I'm not so sure.

Popoutman

So take your hooker for a 5 minute kebab or burger or drink, then back to wherever. You pay (lots) for her food/drink, and the sex is free..

The Th!ng

Does anyone remember the story a few years back of the Canadian paedo who had used software to swirl his face beyond recognition in photos of him abusing children? Michael Moran was the head of the Interpol operation that finally nabbed him in Thailand.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-interpol-officer-honoured-405768.html

Cienciano

Popoutman wrote: »

So take your hooker for a 5 minute kebab or burger or drink, then back to wherever. You pay (lots) for her food/drink, and the sex is free..

Jesus, join date in 2000!

Donkey Oaty

The full act is available here.

It's surprisingly detailed in what is and isn't allowed.

For example, there's one section devoted to "Removal of wigs and gowns".

RDM_83 again

Berserker wrote: »

The law relates to the purchasing of sex, so online escorting would be included in that. In reality, this will make little difference. The guards will have to prove that money has changed hands between the two parties, for the purpose of sex, to successfully prosecute the purchaser. That is going to be extremely difficult to do.

Its just going to be a waste of resources if applied, I used to live up in Stoneybatter and for a period of a month every few days I'd see the same girl that was clearly on the game, never thought much of it until I looked at her properly one day and it was clear she was probably 15 or less.
I'm ambivalent/conflicted on if prostitution should be legalised but what I am certain about is that the resources available should be used to tackle the most negative aspects and most vulnerable people before we go about criminalising its less harmful aspects.

castletownman

I sat idly by as people were out protesting about hospital closures, medical card cutbacks, classroom sizes, nurses hours and water meter charges.

But this is the final straw. How dare they take away my fundamental right of a ride. Pitchfork is at the ready

Berserker

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Its just going to be a waste of resources if applied, I used to live up in Stoneybatter and for a period of a month every few days I'd see the same girl that was clearly on the game, never thought much of it until I looked at her properly one day and it was clear she was probably 15 or less.
I'm ambivalent/conflicted on if prostitution should be legalised but what I am certain about is that the resources available should be used to tackle the most negative aspects and most vulnerable people before we go about criminalising its less harmful aspects.

I was listening to an ex-policeman from NI talking about this and he said that it will be very difficult for the police to implement these laws up there. The same will be the case for our police.

I do not want to see prostitution legalised in this country. Dublin, as a city, is pretty unpleasant as is, without adding the extra eye sore of a RLD to it. I am happy to maintain the status quo on it, to be honest. I have serious concerns about the parties who are pushing this new bill also.