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Will the dublin hurlers win an AL in the next 10 years?

2

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    offaly is a small county didn't stop them beating kilkenny in hurling and kerry in football all irelands.

    But look at them now, absolute muck at everything.

    Shame they fell off, it was a great achievement, can still remember them winning that AI v Kerry. :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 402 ✭✭J DEERE


    Rightwing wrote: »
    They are a poor man's version of KK, lots of fitness and heart and plenty of pulling & dragging & blocking.

    I wouldn't go so far as to say that but I feel that Dublin don't hurl with the same fluidity or intelligence as the like of Tipp of Kk. I have rarely seen Dublin hurl and have them produce a passage of play that has made me sit back and say wow. Other teams have. They are big, powerful athletic players but their hurling and play look like it has been done to death on the training ground. The kk forwards interact almost telepathically and have an instinctive finishing ability

    A worrying aspect for Dublin is their inability or difficulty getting goals. They have a lot of grafters, ball winners and point scorers but they don't have a goal threat. Look back through the years at the all Ireland finals. Goals win all irelands


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    J DEERE wrote: »
    I wouldn't go so far as to say that but I feel that Dublin don't hurl with the same fluidity or intelligence as the like of Tipp of Kk. I have rarely seen Dublin hurl and have them produce a passage of play that has made me sit back and say wow. Other teams have. They are big, powerful athletic players but their hurling and play look like it has been done to death on the training ground. The kk forwards interact almost telepathically and have an instinctive finishing ability

    A worrying aspect for Dublin is their inability or difficulty getting goals. They have a lot of grafters, ball winners and point scorers but they don't have a goal threat. Look back through the years at the all Ireland finals. Goals win all irelands

    Any knowledgeable person would agree with that. Why do you think that is the case?


  • Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭homeofhurling


    Rightwing wrote: »
    But look at them now, absolute muck at everything.

    Shame they fell off, it was a great achievement, can still remember them winning that AI v Kerry. :pac:

    yes they are poor at the moment but they are in the two leinster club finals this year, also remember them was it kilcormac-killoughey giving your thurles sarsfields a lesson in hurling two years ago, and yes kerrymen if they live to be 150 willnever forget the 5 in-a-row anyone still got the T-Shirts that said the 5 in-a-row :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭savannahkat


    Of course Dublin can win the All Ireland Hurling. They should have beaten Cork in last years semi and would have seriously tested Clare and in my opinion would have beaten them. They have already been close, they are one of the strongest at underage so there is no serious reason to say they cannot go the whole way. The improvement in them in the past six years is exemplary. All they need to do is to continue the hard graft and the great work they have been doing and their day will come.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    J DEERE wrote: »

    A worrying aspect for Dublin is their inability or difficulty getting goals. They have a lot of grafters, ball winners and point scorers but they don't have a goal threat. Look back through the years at the all Ireland finals. Goals win all irelands

    The lack of goals was down to the system Daly had them playing i.e. players lying deep/two man FF line. Very hard to score goals when it's 2 vs 3 in the FF line. Dublin played KK in a league game in NP in 2013 and it was a goal fest; something like 8/9 goals scored in the game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    Dublin under Daly weren't going to win an AI. He had brought them as far as he could. As mentioned earlier, they had a great opportunity in 2013 when the championship was wide open.
    Don't know anything about Cunningham as a trainer but he'll certainly freshen things up for the Dubs being a totally new voice to all of them. They are shy of a few players needed to win an AI though that could be said about some of the other 'top tier' counties. They could do with a slump in the footballers fortunes and hope that some of the dual players come back to the hurling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    Rightwing wrote: »

    I'd regard Tipp as having the best hurlers in the country.

    I certainly hope that all those players are in situ next year along with the professor.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,098 ✭✭✭Browney7


    The problem for Dublin is that they'll realistically always come up against Kilkenny and Cody early in the championship. To win they'd have to be seriously on their game potentially peaking too early, lose and they have the mine field of the qualifiers.

    Seeing them against Tipp this year I'd think an all Ireland is a fair bit away for them. They had no fluidity at all that day and were very one dimensional.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,221 ✭✭✭braddun


    yes


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭deadybai


    As long as Kilkenny are around its hard to see Dublin win the All-Ireland. Dublin would need someone else to beat the Cats to have a shot at the title. Right now Dublin are on the same level as Waterford. Have a few decent hurlers but no one stands out. Where is their Richie Hogan?, Brendan Maher?, Joe Canning?, Pat Horgan?, Seamus Hickey? Danny Sutcliffe is Dublins best player at the moment but would he even make it on to any of this years top 4 teams?

    Right now Dublin are almost like a team of young inexperienced hurlers. Dublin have won a lot at underage but physically they are monsters at that age. All that physical development balances out when they reach Senior Level.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,784 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    deadybai wrote: »
    Danny Sutcliffe is Dublins best player at the moment but would he even make it on to any of this years top 4 teams?

    .

    In fairness, of course he would. Easily. And he's a 'natural hurler' by any stretch of the imagination as well, though insecure hurling snobs from some counties with inferiority complexes might question that because it doesn't fit their narrative that Dublin are a team of muscle men.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    Of course Dublin can win. Will they win is another question, and ten years is a long time. People were saying that in 2013 they missed their chance, I don't quite buy that. They couldn't beat Cork and (IMO) would have been well beaten by Clare. But this Dublin team isn't the finished article and is still building. They will no doubt be serious contenders. They just have to get all their ducks in a row regarding bringing more players through.

    People often say that the true test of a counties potential is in how healthy the club game is. What's the take on that from a Dub's perspective? All we really hear is that so-and-so opted for football or the like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭Peace


    Dublin have had reasonable success at under age. Its not easy to win a Leinster championship and since 2010 Dublin have competed in 4 minor finals ('10,'11,'12,'14) winning in '11 and '12. That lead to competing in 2 AI minor finals ('11,12) which were both lost.

    At U21 Dublin were in the '11 final as well and have produced Leinster wins in '10 and '11.

    The Seniors have won Leinster in 2013 and had 2 AI Semi appearances in the past 5 years as well as the National Hurling league title in 2011. The Leinster and NHL achievements took 52 and 72 years respectively.

    The appointment of Ger Cunningham is introducing an unknown quantity into the mix. The recent successes of the hurlers may slightly reduce the draw of underage talent to go to the football panel which is one of the biggest handicap that Dublin hurling faces.

    On balance the seniors are missing another 3 top class hurlers and usually struggle in mid field. A couple of the forwards and hitting the downslide of their careers but at the moment the replacements are there and will step up. The problem of midfield will be the biggest challenge to solve.

    So whats the answer to the original question... probably.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    Their forwards are poor enough to be honest. They've lost three or four of their best prospects.

    Sutcliffe is class, and Colm Cronin looks the part as well. Keaney is very hard to figure out. Can be excellent, and then can have days like the Leinster final where I felt he was the worst player on the field. Ryan O Dwyer wouldn't make the top 4 county teams I would say. I like Dotsy, but didn't see much from him this year. And Paul Ryan has talent, but its telling he's struggled to nail down his place at the team.

    I think they are a good bit away, but they are committed. I think Cunningham was a good appointment overall but he has a bit too prove, and there are enough questions over Tommy Dunne who was already involved this year and wouldn't be hearing great stories of his involvement with Tipp.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    deadybai wrote: »

    Right now Dublin are on the same level as Waterford.

    The results wouldn't bear out that comparison. Dublin dispatched Wexford down in Wexford park earlier this year. Wexford took care of Waterford. I'd fancy the dubs vs the deise any/every time.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,851 ✭✭✭Mountainlad


    citykat wrote: »
    The results wouldn't bear out that comparison. Dublin dispatched Wexford down in Wexford park earlier this year. Wexford took care of Waterford. I'd fancy the dubs vs the deise any/every time.

    We're at a low ebb I guess. They had a bit of help off two refs in the league mind and still only bet us once. Think Wexford improved a lot for the game v Dublin. Same can't be said for the Dubs unfortunately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,320 ✭✭✭MfMan


    I've wrote here before, I think they need to win an AI club title first. Don't think a Senior AI can be won without the necessary strong club scene which provides the foundation and testing battle ground for the county team. Don't think the domestic championship in Dublin is anywhere nearly as competitive or productive (in terms of supplying players) enough to yet guarantee a good selection for the county team.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,784 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    MfMan wrote: »
    I've wrote here before, I think they need to win an AI club title first. Don't think a Senior AI can be won without the necessary strong club scene which provides the foundation and testing battle ground for the county team. Don't think the domestic championship in Dublin is anywhere nearly as competitive or productive (in terms of supplying players) enough to yet guarantee a good selection for the county team.

    dunno if they need the club all Ireland as such, but certainly a more competitive club scene in terms of depth of talent across the senior clubs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭citykat


    MfMan wrote: »
    I've wrote here before, I think they need to win an AI club title first. Don't think a Senior AI can be won without the necessary strong club scene which provides the foundation and testing battle ground for the county team. Don't think the domestic championship in Dublin is anywhere nearly as competitive or productive (in terms of supplying players) enough to yet guarantee a good selection for the county team.

    What has winning the club AI done for Galway? You're right about a strong club scene though esp senior. IMO this is more important than any number of minor or U21 successes.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭corny


    I hope Dublin win an AI soon, if only to save me from hearing all these tired cliches.

    Dublin big, powerful, side? Really? I think they are dwarfed by the likes KK and Tipp. Rushe and Sutcliffe match up physically alright. Anyone else? Dotsy, McCrabbe, Niall Corcoran, McCaffrey, Durkin? Monsters right! Even the lads who could be described as physical are getting on now and just aren't a match anymore for lads who are really physical (Hiney, ROD, Keaney).

    Too much time in the gym and on fitness? Really? In what game did Dublin finish stronger than their opposition last year? KK breezed past them in the final 10 minutes of the Leinster final. Same thing happened in Thurles. Against Weford they saw the game out but were far from comfortable in doing so.

    No wristy (Cyril Farrellism) hurlers in Dublin? Really? No we've our share. The problem has been getting them exposure and getting them to stay away from the football. Will a new team be able to mix it with KK for basic skills? Maybe not but thats hardly an indictment is it.

    I don't know if we'll win an Ireland for a while yet but a new coach with new ideas and hopefully a fresh panel might quell some of this ****e we have to listen to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,459 ✭✭✭deadybai


    corny wrote: »
    I hope Dublin win an AI soon, if only to save me from hearing all these tired cliches.

    Dublin big, powerful, side? Really? I think they are dwarfed by the likes KK and Tipp. Rushe and Sutcliffe match up physically alright. Anyone else? Dotsy, McCrabbe, Niall Corcoran, McCaffrey, Durkin? Monsters right! Even the lads who could be described as physical are getting on now and just aren't a match anymore for lads who are really physical (Hiney, ROD, Keaney).

    Too much time in the gym and on fitness? Really? In what game did Dublin finish stronger than their opposition last year? KK breezed past them in the final 10 minutes of the Leinster final. Same thing happened in Thurles. Against Weford they saw the game out but were far from comfortable in doing so.

    No wristy (Cyril Farrellism) hurlers in Dublin? Really? No we've our share. The problem has been getting them exposure and getting them to stay away from the football. Will a new team be able to mix it with KK for basic skills? Maybe not but thats hardly an indictment is it.

    I don't know if we'll win an Ireland for a while yet but a new coach with new ideas and hopefully a fresh panel might quell some of this ****e we have to listen to.


    I think though when people talk about them spending to much time in the gym, they are talking about at under-age level. Which I believe is the main reason Dublin have been so successful over the last number of years at underage. When the players get to Senior everyone is on the same fitness levels so it balances out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,320 ✭✭✭MfMan


    citykat wrote: »
    What has winning the club AI done for Galway? You're right about a strong club scene though esp senior. IMO this is more important than any number of minor or U21 successes.

    True, it's not axiomatic that winning a 'club' means you will win a 'county' soon after, but Galway have been much closer to winning 'Liam' in recent years than Dublin have, and a county that produces a club-winning team is surely an indicator that the domestic scene there is competitive and productive. (Though a Corofin win in the football will disprove this somewhat!) Is it only once that a Dublin club have ever won Leinster?

    Believe me, I would love to see Dublin win an AI, but throwing money at it hoping for a short-cut fix won't work I feel - a culture and tradition has to grow organically which takes time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,784 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    MfMan wrote: »
    a county that produces a club-winning team is surely an indicator that the domestic scene there is competitive and productive.

    I think Antrim and Offaly would call that into question. All it means is that team is good, it doesn't seem to correlate with club competitiveness or by extension inter county success at all to me. Often the team winning all Irelands is totally dominant within their own country, like portumna a few years back, ballyhale at their best, birr in their hey day, and the really glaring example (admittedly from football) crossmaglen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭freddiek


    with all the culchie expertise they draft in i'd say they won't be far off. a final appearance within 10 years is eminently achievable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 830 ✭✭✭jimpump


    Damn



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,565 ✭✭✭Mal-Adjusted


    There's still two years to go!



  • Registered Users Posts: 830 ✭✭✭jimpump


    More chance of Tipp winning it and that's saying something



  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭rogerywalters


    Theyve regressed!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,784 ✭✭✭✭Realt Dearg Sec


    They'll never win one if their best players keep leaving to play football.



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