The Paedophile Next Door

Roquentin · 25-11-2014 07:10PM

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Someone who is attracted to a child who hasn't reached puberty i.e. usually 11 or less.

After that you're an ephebophile.

its higher than 11 id say. i would say up to 14/15 and maybe a grey area at 15

years ago it would have been 11, but we are maturing later now, thats why i say it. people are taking a longer time to grow up.

looking_around · 25-11-2014 07:11PM

Roquentin wrote: »

thats the thing. It is there to protect adolescents who would be taken advantage of by adults. That alone says something very fundamental about the law abiding sect of society.

by that criteria, every single bloke would be a ephebophile. Every single bloke is attracted to an 18 year old girl. Now society deems it morally wrong for an older man to chase one, but the attraction is there, but ignored.

as of now attraction to a teen is normal(17/18/19). Now its considered wrong and men repress it, but teen porn is the biggest porn in the internet. maybe in 300 years time 24 could be the new 18.

Actually the criteria isn't about saying it's wrong, simply about labelling it more clearly. I would say ephebophiles are closer to the norm.

Still adult and a teen is wrong, and shouldn't be more accepted than adult and a toddler. It's still very possible to take advantage of a teen, hence the law of consent.

Roquentin · 25-11-2014 07:15PM

looking_around wrote: »

Actually the criteria isn't about saying it's wrong, simply about labelling it more clearly. I would say ephebophiles are closer to the norm.

ok my bad.

Buona Fortuna · 25-11-2014 07:23PM

Roquentin wrote: »

its higher than 11 id say. i would say up to 14/15 and maybe a grey area at 15

years ago it would have been 11, but we are maturing later now, thats why i say it. people are taking a longer time to grow up.

Don't think so. Where did you get that from?

On average, girls begin puberty at ages 10–11; boys at ages 11–12.[1][2] Girls usually complete puberty by ages 15–17,[2][3][4] while boys usually complete puberty by ages 16–17.[2][3][5] The major landmark of puberty for females is menarche, the onset of menstruation, which occurs on average between ages 12–13;[6][7][8][9] for males, it is the first ejaculation, which occurs on average at age 13.[10] In the 21st century, the average age at which children, especially girls, reach puberty is lower compared to the 19th century, when it was 15 for girls and 16 for boys.[11] This can be due to any number of factors, including improved nutrition resulting in rapid body growth, increased weight and fat deposition,[12] or exposure to endocrine disruptors such as xenoestrogens, which can at times be due to food consumption or other environmental factors.[13][14] Puberty which starts earlier than usual is known as precocious puberty. Puberty which starts later than usual is known as delayed puberty.

Wiki

Roquentin · 25-11-2014 07:30PM

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

Don't think so. Where did you get that from?

Wiki

so you quote wiki and believe what it says

.......emmm

looking_around · 25-11-2014 07:39PM

Roquentin wrote: »

so you quote wiki and believe what it says.......emmm

Usually, puberty starts between ages 8 and 13 in girls and ages 9 and 15 in boys. This wide range in ages may help explain why some of your friends still look like young kids whereas others look more like adults.

Kidshealth better source for you?

thegaurdian explains that's it's fallen by 5 years
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/21/puberty-adolescence-childhood-onset

Buona Fortuna · 25-11-2014 08:07PM

Roquentin wrote: »

so you quote wiki and believe what it says.......emmm

FFS - for all its faults quoting wiki is better than simply making it up as you go along. Did I miss any references that you were citing?:eek:

Roquentin · 25-11-2014 08:09PM

looking_around wrote: »

Usually, puberty starts between ages 8 and 13 in girls and ages 9 and 15 in boys. This wide range in ages may help explain why some of your friends still look like young kids whereas others look more like adults.

Kidshealth better source for you?

thegaurdian explains that's it's fallen by 5 years
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2012/oct/21/puberty-adolescence-childhood-onset

thats exactly the point. It depends not on the age when they hit puberty but rather what they look like.

From an evolutionary psychology point of view, yes you are correct and so is the other poster. Technically puberty tells us when we are ready. But attraction is instinctive and we are attracted to what someone looks like not that they are in puberty.

Age is just a concept of what it takes the planet to revolve around the sun in the sky. So one year takes 365 days and we then attach this age onto people to further identify them. The mind cannot fathom age. It deals with looks. And it deals on instinct. A person has a general idea of what is attractive.

A child who is 12 years old is still transforming into an adult and thus wouldnt be attractive to the mind, despite that they may have hit puberty. The human mind knows what it finds attractive and it should not find that attractive. This is why i said there is a grey area at maybe 14/15 because it depends on what the individual looks like. Of course you get people who age quicker, but i say 14/15 because that would be the general age.

what happens is that you have men who are attracted to that type of individual when they shouldnt. You have men who are in the middle of an addiction and will do anything for a high.

What also happens is the mind gets tricked. A poster mentioned transexual porn and that works in the same method. Its tricks the mind. The youth of today are now dressing like adults and that can trick the mind.

Its open to interpretation and depends on what the person looks like, not age. pedophilia overlaps a lot with hebephilia. some psychologists would prefer to distinguish them unlike the media. My issue is that a person may be in puberty but still look young and that is what the mind goes on, what a person looks like

TwoShedsJackson · 25-11-2014 08:16PM

Roquentin wrote: »

its higher than 11 id say. i would say up to 14/15 and maybe a grey area at 15

years ago it would have been 11, but we are maturing later now, thats why i say it. people are taking a longer time to grow up.

That wasn't my opinion, I was quoting the wiki.

looking_around · 25-11-2014 08:17PM

Roquentin wrote: »

thats exactly the point. It depends not on the age when they hit puberty but rather what they look like.

From an evolutionary psychology point of view, yes you are correct and so is the other poster. Technically puberty tells us when we are ready. But attraction is instinctive and we are attracted to what someone looks like not that they are in puberty.

Age is just a concept of what it takes the planet to revolve around the sun in the sky. So one year takes 365 days and we then attach this age onto people to further identify them. The mind cannot fathom age. It deals with looks. And it deals on instinct. A person has a general idea of what is attractive.

A child who is 12 years old is still transforming into an adult and thus wouldnt be attractive to the mind, despite that they may have hit puberty. The human mind knows what it finds attractive and it should not find that attractive. This is why i said there is a grey area at maybe 14/15 because it depends on what the individual looks like. Of course you get people who age quicker, but i say 14/15 because that would be the general age.

what happens is that you have men who are attracted to that type of individual when they shouldnt. You have men who are in the middle of an addiction and will do anything for a high.

What also happens is the mind gets tricked. A poster mentioned transexual porn and that works in the same method. Its tricks the mind. The youth of today are now dressing like adults and that can trick the mind.

Its open to interpretation and depends on what the person looks like, not age. pedophilia overlaps a lot with hebephilia. some psychologists would prefer to distinguish them unlike the media. My issue is that a person may be in puberty but still look young and that is what the mind goes on, what a person looks like

I don't believe attraction can be wrong, acting on that attraction however, .

UCDVet · 25-11-2014 09:57PM

Maybe I'm biased - but I just feel sorry for the guy. You can't help how you *feel*. Nobody chooses what they find attractive. We can choose how we act on those feelings.

I'd venture to guess that most men (or possibly people? I dunno how the ladies feel) have sexual urges that would be criminal if acted upon. It's just that, almost all of us, can control ourselves.

UCDVet · 25-11-2014 09:59PM

Buona Fortuna wrote: »

FFS - for all its faults quoting wiki is better than simply making it up as you go along. Did I miss any references that you were citing?:eek:

Didn't even read the rest of the thread - but 10000000x times.

If people are going to dismiss references from wiki - they should certainly have much better references to provide themselves!

looking_around · 25-11-2014 10:03PM

UCDVet wrote: »

Maybe I'm biased - but I just feel sorry for the guy. You can't help how you *feel*. Nobody chooses what they find attractive. We can choose how we act on those feelings.

I'd venture to guess that most men (or possibly people? I dunno how the ladies feel) have sexual urges that would be criminal if acted upon. It's just that, almost all of us, can control ourselves.

As a woman, I love sadism in the bedroom. So yes, I can vouch for criminal thoughts. (Women really aren't a separate species, you know.)

But that's just it, they're thoughts.

I think the best thing to compare them, for people. is have you ever been really, really, really angry at someone? ever uttered the words "ugh, I could kill them"...you don't really mean it, but, at the moment, you thought it.

It's just a thought, and thoughts should never be treated as a crime.

yipeeeee · 25-11-2014 10:09PM

The simple fact is, we are all products of matter in our brain.

We have no control over the way our brains function with regards preferences etc.

Free will is an illusion. We are all just products of how our minds are made up.

whupdedo · 25-11-2014 10:32PM

There is an inherent danger in mixing up the terms paedophile and child abuser, while the former is undesirable, it is at the same time a recognised sexual leaning such as heterosexual and homosexual, while not ideal it isn't dangerous unless a paedophile has the same mindset as a heterosexual rapist, I'm a straight male but don't have any tendency to go and rape women just because I find them attractive, likewise a paedophile usually doesn't feel the need to go out and abuse or rape children

If pedophiles feel the need to go and get treatment that is up to them, but branding them as abusers and threatening to lock them up is going down a very dangerous path imo

ScumLord · 25-11-2014 10:53PM

looking_around wrote: »

As a woman, I love sadism in the bedroom. So yes, I can vouch for criminal thoughts. (Women really aren't a separate species, you know.)

I don't think (consensual) sadism is illegal. As long as nobody dies it's all good.

looking_around · 25-11-2014 11:12PM

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't think (consensual) sadism is illegal. As long as nobody dies it's all good.

ah, but you see, my thoughts go further than consent.
__
oh and there's a very fine line, in consent and legal, legally it's abuse, where the "victim" is "coerced" into not reporting their abuser.
(and I understand this thinking, and would never want them to make it legal, as it would make it tricky to charge and deal with actual domestic violent cases)
but that's a tangent,
my thoughts are violent and not legal, was the point of my post. And that, violent thoughts aren't just for males.

Of course, I know the difference between fantasy and reality, and my thoughts will stay as thoughts only.

It's not just violence that people curb either.

What about walking into a shop and thinking for a moment about not paying for the item?
Walking out of the restaurant after eating a meal?

Humans think alot of unsavoury things, that doesn't mean they'll act on them. Peadophiles are not some subspecies of human either. They know right from wrong. (well most do...like most humans, obviously there's a few without morals).

Buona Fortuna · 25-11-2014 11:14PM

On C4 at 22:00 tomorrow is "It was alright in the 1970s".

I picked it up on 4OD a few days ago. Quite shocking how a number of pre-watershed, main stream programmes were sniggeringly suggesting that schoolgirls were "fairgame". Programmes like The Likely Lads, Doctor at Large or something.

sadie06 · 25-11-2014 11:32PM

whupdedo wrote: »

I'm a straight male but don't have any tendency to go and rape women just because I find them attractive, likewise a paedophile usually doesn't feel the need to go out and abuse or rape children

Yes but as a straight male you will have ample opportunity to satisfy your attraction, so are statistically unlikely to rape. There is no opportunity for somebody with an attraction to children to satisfy their urge, unless they resort to abuse. You can't just file it as another orientation in my opinion.

looking_around · 25-11-2014 11:37PM

sadie06 wrote: »

Yes but as a straight male you will have ample opportunity to satisfy your attraction, so are statistically unlikely to rape. There is no opportunity for somebody with an attraction to children to satisfy their urge, unless they resort to abuse. You can't just file it as another orientation in my opinion.

There is cgi/cartoon porn.
There are dolls

we don't really know if these things would help, because we don'y give them a chance.
Much easier to close our eyes to it and say "they're all evil".

Into The Blue · 25-11-2014 11:40PM

whupdedo wrote: »

If pedophiles feel the need to go and get treatment that is up to them, but branding them as abusers and threatening to lock them up is going down a very dangerous path imo

A path I wouldn't mind living at the end of.. Comparing liking grown women to liking kids? Ffs,

We live in a world where everyone thinks they have a right to life.. I wish that was not the case, and give me a choice over the greater public good, and some peados free will, I know which I'd choose.

Laura Palmer · 26-11-2014 12:44AM

Hard-hitting programme.
I found it strange the way the idea that paedophiles should receive treatment before they offend (and thus helping prevent abuse of at least one child) as "radical", to be strange. It's not exactly complex stuff.
I also found it strange the way there was surprise expressed that there are those who harbour attraction to children but wouldn't act on it. Surely that's a given?
Nearly everyone has a sexual attraction to someone, but most don't force themselves on/groom those they're attracted to.
I'm sure it's possible for those who are attracted to children to have self control and to make choices not to harm children.
For a decent person to realise they're attracted to children, that is most unenviable - I'm sure they'd much rather not have those feelings. It's when that person is not decent/is damaged, that children are more at risk.

I found it interesting how studies show that when a person is feeling cornered and a sense of no way out, they're more likely to abuse. And that when those who feel attraction to children internalise the popular view that they will go out and abuse a child, it increases the risk.
IMO it makes sense therefore to offer those who have sexual feelings for children a treatment programme, instead of leaving them hiding/underground, and thus creating more of a risk to children.

The testimonies from abuse victims were absolutely heartbreaking. If that man who was abused at his school can sit down and talk to a man who has sexual attraction to children and understands he doesn't want to feel this way, he wants help, he doesn't want to harm children... then anyone should be able to understand being a paedophile isn't always voluntary and doesn't always automatically = going to abuse a child.

Found it strange how the focus was only on male abusers.

ALiasEX · 26-11-2014 01:17AM

looking_around wrote: »

Of course, I know the difference between fantasy and reality, and my thoughts will stay as thoughts only.

First they'll come to castrate pedophiles then they'll come to castrate sadists

ALiasEX · 26-11-2014 01:22AM

sadie06 wrote: »

Yes but as a straight male you will have ample opportunity to satisfy your attraction, so are statistically unlikely to rape. There is no opportunity for somebody with an attraction to children to satisfy their urge, unless they resort to abuse. You can't just file it as another orientation in my opinion.

Fantasy and masturbation. What does a heterosexual person that can't satisfy their attraction do? (eg too shy)

MadDog76 · 26-11-2014 02:28AM

looking_around wrote: »

As a woman, I love sadism in the bedroom. So yes, I can vouch for criminal thoughts. (Women really aren't a separate species, you know.)

But that's just it, they're thoughts.

I think the best thing to compare them, for people. is have you ever been really, really, really angry at someone? ever uttered the words "ugh, I could kill them"...you don't really mean it, but, at the moment, you thought it.

It's just a thought, and thoughts should never be treated as a crime.

Anyone else turned on by this post??? :cool:

ceadaoin. · 26-11-2014 02:52AM

1 in 4 girls and 1 in 8 boys in the UK suffer some form of sexual abuse. Does that suggest that most paedophiles are able to control their urges? Im sure there are people who have these feelings and who don't want to act on them but I think in a lot of cases it is more than a sexual orientation issue and more about power and control.

I don't know what the answer is but I think sympathy should lie with abused children, most of whom feel the effects of abuse well into adulthood.

Smidge · 26-11-2014 02:54AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

1 in 6 children in the UK suffer some form of sexual abuse. Does that suggest that most paedophiles are able to control their urges? Im sure there are people who have these feelings and who don't want to act on them but I think in a lot of cases it is more than a sexual orientation issue and more about power and control.

I don't know what the answer is but I think sympathy should lie with abused children, most of whom feel the effects of abuse well into adulthood.

The woman in that programme was a prime example of that,

whupdedo · 26-11-2014 07:30AM

sadie06 wrote: »

Yes but as a straight male you will have ample opportunity to satisfy your attraction, so are statistically unlikely to rape. There is no opportunity for somebody with an attraction to children to satisfy their urge, unless they resort to abuse. You can't just file it as another orientation in my opinion.

I agree, but your either a rapist or not, and by rapist I mean someone who intentionally goes out to commit a rape or sets up an environment where rape is the main intention (I don't mean having consensual sex with someone who later regrets it) their are men and women who will never have sexual relations and are never a danger to society

floggg · 26-11-2014 10:41AM

Into The Blue wrote: »

A path I wouldn't mind living at the end of.. Comparing liking grown women to liking kids? Ffs,

We live in a world where everyone thinks they have a right to life.. I wish that was not the case, and give me a choice over the greater public good, and some peados free will, I know which I'd choose.

Trust me, the greater public good isn't being served by punishing (never mind executing as you appear to suggest) somebody who hasn't committed and doesnt intend to commit any crime whatsoever.

floggg · 26-11-2014 10:48AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

1 in 4 girls and 1 in 8 boys in the UK suffer some form of sexual abuse. Does that suggest that most paedophiles are able to control their urges? Im sure there are people who have these feelings and who don't want to act on them but I think in a lot of cases it is more than a sexual orientation issue and more about power and control.

I don't know what the answer is but I think sympathy should lie with abused children, most of whom feel the effects of abuse well into adulthood.

I think everybody's sympathies do lie with abused children. That doesn't mean you can't feel sympathy for somebody who has unwanted attractions to children but who never acts on them.

And I think if you really wanted to protect children, you'd want society to everything it could to help people with those attractions to ensure they never do act on them. So I would think providing whatever non-judgmental counselling services they might find helpful would be the best thing you could do for kids to protect them from abuse.

The Paedophile Next Door

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