Irish Water Discussion {MERGE}

MarkAnthony · 17-11-2014 08:45AM

In other news, Gazza has let himself go a bit:

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/paul-gascoigne-released-police-after-4204183

Grolschevik · 17-11-2014 11:18AM

garhjw wrote: »

Some loser posts bull on the web and you simpletons take it as gospel? Good lads

I think you'll find that we are despairing of the fact that other people are taking that bull seriously.

Johnboy1951 · 17-11-2014 01:07PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

The photo posted with those allegations has been doctored. When you compare a before and after it's evident that the "stab vest" has been coloured in to make if look all navy where before there was a light coloured stripe. Add to that the fact there is zero evidence to support it at all makes it a pretty weak allegation.

Thanks for the explanation!

amber2 · 23-11-2014 05:09PM

Put this up on a thread water meters in politics probably more suited here as it's really a legalities related question

Got a leaflet on Friday in the letterbox stating that meters are being installed in our area from Monday on or within three days of the 24/11/ listing the do's and dont's of using certain appliances during this time. So went out this morning only to find that the meter was in fact installed Thursday or Friday and is up to 160 litres already so has been in there for some days. So why give a signed leaflet to residents giving an instillation date at all. Is this fitted illegally. Rang irish water as as usual they have no idea why this would happen. Quoted the serial number and irish water have no record of any water meters being installed in our area even though all the houses around have had their meters installed too.

Little CuChulainn · 23-11-2014 05:36PM

amber2 wrote: »

Put this up on a thread water meters in politics probably more suited here as it's really a legalities related question

Got a leaflet on Friday in the letterbox stating that meters are being installed in our area from Monday on or within three days of the 24/11/ listing the do's and dont's of using certain appliances during this time. So went out this morning only to find that the meter was in fact installed Thursday or Friday and is up to 160 litres already so has been in there for some days. So why give a signed leaflet to residents giving an instillation date at all. Is this fitted illegally. Rang irish water as as usual they have no idea why this would happen.

I think the legislation states that they have to give a weeks notice. But the question becomes, if they don't give the notice, what could a court do? I'd say the most you are looking at is compensation for any inconvenience caused.

Losty Dublin · 23-11-2014 06:09PM

amber2 wrote: »

Got a leaflet on Friday in the letterbox stating that meters are being installed in our area from Monday on or within three days of the 24/11/ listing the do's and dont's of using certain appliances during this time. So went out this morning only to find that the meter was in fact installed Thursday or Friday....

Friday is within 3 days, is it not?

amber2 · 23-11-2014 07:04PM

It's either on or with in three days from the 24/11 instillation begins in my area. From,, so I assume it's beginning on that date but in fact the meter was installed last Thursday with no record of it being installed on the system held as of today by Irish water, when quoting the meter serial number.

Irish water have now rang back agologised for this and are raising the issue with a manager to contact next week, so it would seem that there is an issue. So If you do get a notice ensure that the meter hasn't already been installed.

23-11-2014 08:03PM

amber2 wrote: »

It's either on or with in three days from the 24/11 instillation begins in my area. From,, so I assume it's beginning on that date but in fact the meter was installed last Thursday with no record of it being installed on the system held as of today by Irish water, when quoting the meter serial number.

Irish water have now rang back agologised for this and are raising the issue with a manager to contact next week, so it would seem that there is an issue. So If you do get a notice ensure that the meter hasn't already been installed.

Why? What difference does it make? You clearly didn't experience any difficulties while it was being installed.

amber2 · 23-11-2014 08:11PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Why? What difference does it make? You clearly didn't experience any difficulties while it was being installed.

Why give notice with a list of do's and Dont's then.

Also not that it matters but the ball cock in the attic stuck open cause crap got stuck in the line, bit inconvenient alright.

23-11-2014 09:14PM

amber2 wrote: »

Why give notice with a list of do's and Dont's then.

Also not that it matters but the ball cock in the attic stuck open cause crap got stuck in the line, bit inconvenient alright.

I mean from a legal point of view. They have to install them. You legally can't prevent that. If they install them in a manner which caused so little inconvenience to you that you were actually unaware that they had even been installed, isn't that a positive thing?

conorh91 · 23-11-2014 10:18PM

amber2 wrote: »

Irish water have now rang back agologised for this and are raising the issue with a manager to contact next week, so it would seem that there is an issue.

Raising "the issue" with a manager is no more a sign of a legitimate grievance than a checkout-girl alerting her manager that a naked man is doing arabesques and pirouettes in the vegetable aisle.

Telephone-support staff are very poorly paid. Any query that cannot be answered rationally is above their pay grade. That includes dealing with cranks. I'm not accusing you of being a crank, I'm saying that cranks often get referred to managers.

FreudianSlippers · 24-11-2014 10:07AM

Are "days" defined in the legislation? I presume they'd be business days.

Grolschevik · 24-11-2014 02:05PM

"...we have been clearly told by our lawyers it will not stand up under Irish contract law.”

Anyone got an opinion on this?

Context: Irish Examiner article - http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cwsnsncwqlcw/rss2/

"More than 17,000 people have been duped into signing up to Irish Water, despite returning packs to say they have no interest in the company ... However, 17,400 of the packs have been sent back without being filled in by protesters who are opposed to charges ... While this makes it clear those involved do not want to become Irish Water customers, the company has previously confirmed that any returned packs will result in the person or their address being automatically signed up."

TheChizler · 24-11-2014 02:40PM

Grolschevik wrote: »

"...we have been clearly told by our lawyers it will not stand up under Irish contract law.”

Anyone got an opinion on this?

Context: Irish Examiner article - http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cwsnsncwqlcw/rss2/

Maybe, if it was a contract. But AFAIK the form is to update their details basically, to let them to know to charge you less than the max rate. You'll get a bill regardless of the status of the form.

Little CuChulainn · 24-11-2014 02:56PM

Grolschevik wrote: »

"...we have been clearly told by our lawyers it will not stand up under Irish contract law.”

Anyone got an opinion on this?

Context: Irish Examiner article - http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cwsnsncwqlcw/rss2/

"More than 17,000 people have been duped into signing up to Irish Water, despite returning packs to say they have no interest in the company ... However, 17,400 of the packs have been sent back without being filled in by protesters who are opposed to charges ... While this makes it clear those involved do not want to become Irish Water customers, the company has previously confirmed that any returned packs will result in the person or their address being automatically signed up."

You are a customer if you use the water or sewer system. Doesn't matter if you want to be or not. This is set out in legislation so contract law doesn't apply. Only a constitutional challenge can cancel it out.

FreudianSlippers · 24-11-2014 02:58PM

Contract would be implied by cross-consideration anyway.

Grolschevik · 24-11-2014 03:14PM

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You are a customer if you use the water or sewer system. Doesn't matter if you want to be or not. This is set out in legislation so contract law doesn't apply. Only a constitutional challenge can cancel it out.

The bit I was interested in was the spokesman saying that "their lawyers had said".

So essentially it's a case of "it won't stand up under Irish contract law, because it's not about contract law".

AniaH · 04-01-2015 09:54PM

Hello guys,

I am writing an essay about local government, new public management and Irish water. I am having a very hard time to find any an up to date legal article about this topic.. There are plenty articles in the newspapers but I need something something "more legal".. Could anybody advice me some good legal article to start with? Went on westlaw.ie, JSTOR and hein-on-line.. Thank you.

04-01-2015 11:01PM

AniaH wrote: »

Hello guys,

I am writing an essay about local government, new public management and Irish water. I am having a very hard time to find any an up to date legal article about this topic.. There are plenty articles in the newspapers but I need something something "more legal".. Could anybody advice me some good legal article to start with? Went on westlaw.ie, JSTOR and hein-on-line.. Thank you.

Is this what you're after? http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2013/en.act.2013.0006.pdf
http://www.environ.ie/en/Environment/Water/WaterServices/Legislation/
http://www.water.ie/news/water-services-%28no.2%29-act/

AniaH · 05-01-2015 02:29PM

Thank you Maryanne84, I have these pages already. I am looking for the articles written by legal academics who tackle the problem from the policy, regulation and local government law point of view.

FreudianSlippers · 05-01-2015 02:42PM

Philip Lee Solicitors had something that I think was posted earlier in the thread.

AniaH · 05-01-2015 04:56PM

Thank you.

05-01-2015 05:44PM

Try this http://www.philiplee.ie/Libraries/Publications/The_Legal_Case_for_Household_Water_Charges.sflb.ashx
http://www.philiplee.ie/Libraries/Publications/The_challenge_for_Irish_Water_-_Issue_85_PAI_Journal.sflb.ashx

AniaH · 05-01-2015 06:04PM

Maryanne84

thank you so much

Irish Water Discussion {MERGE}

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