I don't want a vote

petrolcan · 13-11-2014 05:39PM #1

(Mods: This may be in the wrong place so feel free to move it)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30035870

I've lived in the UK since 1991 yet if those recommendations were adopted I'd be allowed a vote on Irish Parliamentary matters.

Seems completely mad to me.

Fuhrer · 13-11-2014 05:42PM

I think Irish citizens can already vote in UK elections, must be to balance it out.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 13-11-2014 05:43PM

Mad is right. I would be totally opposed to this. Nobody living outside the jurisdiction of the state should have a vote. We living here would have to live with the consequences while they vote based on an ideology.

petrolcan · 13-11-2014 05:43PM

Fuhrer wrote: »

I think Irish citizens can already vote in UK elections, must be to balance it out.

Only if they are living in the UK.

Areyouwell · 13-11-2014 05:48PM

A pleasant surprise when I moved to the UK and suddenly I'm entitled to vote in a UK election.

onemorechance · 13-11-2014 05:51PM

Fuhrer wrote: »

I think Irish citizens can already vote in UK elections, must be to balance it out.

petrolcan wrote: »

Only if they are living in the UK.

I would expect that any EU citizen is entitled vote in any ballot in any EU state in which they are resident.

Arsemageddon · 13-11-2014 05:53PM

Kayden Wonderful Sphere wrote: »

Mad is right. I would be totally opposed to this. Nobody living outside the jurisdiction of the state should have a vote. We living here would have to live with the consequences while they vote based on an ideology.

Voting based on ideology strikes me as better than our existing system of voting based on a candidates ability to fix potholes.

Fuhrer · 13-11-2014 05:56PM

onemorechance wrote: »

I would expect that any EU citizen is entitled vote in any ballot in any EU state in which they are resident.

Not in general elections though

Who is eligible to vote at a UK general election?

To vote in a UK general election a person must be registered to vote and also:
be 18 years of age or over on polling day
be a British citizen, a qualifying Commonwealth citizen or a citizen of the Republic of Ireland
not be subject to any legal incapacity to vote

Additionally, the following cannot vote in a UK general election:
EU citizens resident in the UK (although they can vote at elections to local authorities, devolved legislatures and the European Parliament)
anyone other than British, Irish and qualifying Commonwealth citizens

Philo Beddoe · 13-11-2014 06:04PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Voting based on ideology strikes me as better than our existing system of voting based on a candidates ability to fix potholes.

What are you talking about? :mad:

My father voted for his father, and you'll vote for his son.

lazybones32 · 13-11-2014 06:17PM

petrolcan wrote: »

Seems completely mad to me.

Well, this is Ireland, you know...

This is just a pointless exercise so FG/Lab will have something positive to say they did when they come knocking on doors for the next election.

Irish people won't travel too far to vote in our own elections. I can't imagine people being too arsed to make a more considerable journey to a designated polling booth in a foreign land.

FloatingVoter · 13-11-2014 06:19PM

This will mean shinnerbots being bussed south to vote in our elections which worries me. As it will the powers that be. It'll stay at committee stage. I know this country is going to turn into Germany 193 at some point but not just yet. I still need time to save for my plane ticket out.

Fuhrer · 13-11-2014 06:21PM

FloatingVoter wrote: »

This will mean shinnerbots being bussed south to vote in our elections which worries me. As it will the powers that be. It'll stay at committee stage. I know this country is going to turn into Germany 193 at some point but not just yet. I still need time to save for my plane ticket out.

You still have to be registered at an address in the South, you cant just hope on a bus and go tourist voting.

biko · 13-11-2014 06:32PM

I'm all for it. Say I move away for 6 years somewhere but am an Irish citizen still.
I should still have a say in home politics.

So, Irish passport = Irish vote.

daheff · 13-11-2014 07:26PM

As far as im concerned you want an irish vote you should have to pay irish taxes, even if you live abroad (like the us does) ...and a small flat rate if you live abroad but dont vote.

VinLieger · 13-11-2014 07:39PM

biko wrote: »

I'm all for it. Say I move away for 6 years somewhere but am an Irish citizen still.
I should still have a say in home politics.

So, Irish passport = Irish vote.

Ridiculous attitude you may never return home and still have a say on how our country is governed without having to be directly affected by the consequences?

Also the passport logic is ridiculous, due to how Irish passport eligibility works, two Irish people could have moved to America and stay there for the rest of their lives and have a family, their grandchildren who will likely never be a resident in Ireland or possibly even visit the country have a right to a passport and under your logic a vote as well. How is that fair?

questionmark? · 13-11-2014 08:32PM

Should be restricted to Irish born only. Have a time limit such as 10 years.

It wouldnt be a free vote all over the country depending on which county you grew up in but rather allocated seats in the same way countrys
like France have. You could have seat for the UK, Europe/Africa, North/South America, Asia/Oceania.

Cant post link but Irish emigrants send a lot of money home, lots are likely to come home not to mention building trade links with the motherland.

Son Of A Vidic · 13-11-2014 10:48PM

Kayden Wonderful Sphere wrote: »

Mad is right. I would be totally opposed to this. Nobody living outside the jurisdiction of the state should have a vote. We living here would have to live with the consequences while they vote based on an ideology.

Live with what consequences, an upset to the status quote? I have no doubt the decades of talent that had to leave this country through no fault of their own, would not agree with those I'm alright jack sentiments. I like many people I know, had to leave Ireland for a significant number of years. To escape the shackles of who you know, not what you know. And I would have loved the opportunity as an Irish citizen while abroad, to register my displeasure and give a two fingers to the Fine Gael/Fianna Fail induced virus of cronyism that pervades this little country. And that's the real reason successive governments have denied Irish citizens abroad the vote - fear. They are well aware of the kicking they would deservedly receive. 120 countries around the world see this as a democratic right for their citizens who live abroad. But no doubt the cliques and their self-interests will fight it as hard as they can. Fortunately with the EU now keeping an eye on matters and the potential for this ending up in European Court of Justice. They maybe be fighting a losing battle.

The Golden Miller · 13-11-2014 11:05PM

I think this is aimed more at Irish people in the north, and the ones who hold an Irish passport should be allowed to vote

JuliusCaesar · 13-11-2014 11:10PM

biko wrote: »

I'm all for it. Say I move away for 6 years somewhere but am an Irish citizen still.
I should still have a say in home politics.

So, Irish passport = Irish vote.

That's what I used to think in the 12+ years I lived abroad - until in conversation about this, I realised that: Emigrants have an old-fashioned notion of what goes on at home, and also that everyone who votes should live with the consequences of that vote.

Can you imagine all the votes for Sinn Fein and Fianna Fail from our emigrants abroad? I'd have to emigrate, I could no longer live in a country where the biggest constituency lives elsewhere and doesn't have to live with the consequences.

biko · 13-11-2014 11:30PM

There are currently over a hundred countries that allow expats to vote to varying degrees. That's about half of the countries in the world.
Unless I give up my citizenship I don't see a reason to restrict my influence on national politics. I may or may not return, it doesn't matter.

Putin · 13-11-2014 11:38PM

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

That's what I used to think in the 12+ years I lived abroad - until in conversation about this, I realised that: Emigrants have an old-fashioned notion of what goes on at home, and also that everyone who votes should live with the consequences of that vote.

Old fashioned notion? Yes, maybe in the 1950's but not today. We live in the high speed digital/internet age. I know more about what's going on back home than friends who never left. And a lot of Irish friends are the same, they are very much up to speed with what has been going on in their homeland. I had no choice but to leave Ireland thanks to the corrupt clowns in government and their mismanagement. And I will be returning home someday, so how dare anyone who thinks they can justifiable deny me the right to vote as an Irish citizen.

DoctorEdgeWild · 13-11-2014 11:46PM

The day I moved here to England is the day I gave up the right to directly influence things in Ireland in my opinion.

I think residency is all that should matter when it comes to elections.

I don't think I should have the right to decide how a society is run unless I contribute to that society.

Putin · 13-11-2014 11:56PM

DoctorEdgeWild wrote: »

I don't think I should have the right to decide how a society is run unless I contribute to that society.

You must be one of the fortunate ones that had a choice then. I and many others had no choice but to leave, thanks to the clowns running the country. I have travelled home when possible on several occasion to vote in constitutional referendums and in one general election. But on other occasions work has made it impossible. I'm not British and I have not interest in voting in a UK election. So it's about time corrupt little Ireland joined most of the civilised democracies in granting it's citizens the right to vote. The good thing though is, it will be a matter of when not if.

DoctorEdgeWild · 14-11-2014 12:10AM

Putin wrote: »

You must be one of the fortunate ones that had a choice then. I and many others had no choice but to leave, thanks to the clowns running the country. I have travelled home when possible on several occasion to vote in constitutional referendums and in one general election. But on other occasions work has made it impossible. I'm not British and I have not interest in voting in a UK election. So it's about time corrupt little Ireland joined most of the civilised democracies in granting it's citizens the right to vote. The good thing though is, it will be a matter of when not if.

Everyone had a choice whether to leave or not.

I understand your position that you wish to still be involved in something you see as important to you but I simply disagree with a system where someone who lives thousands of miles away, for many years, should be able to directly influence society in a certain country simply due to a place of birth or country written on a passport.

keith16 · 14-11-2014 12:15AM

DoctorEdgeWild wrote: »

I don't think I should have the right to decide how a society is run unless I contribute to that society.

Do you have a vote in England?

In any case, it does seem duplicitous that the government deny the vote to Irish citizens abroad, but also to foreign nationals living in the state.

DoctorEdgeWild · 14-11-2014 12:18AM

keith16 wrote: »

Do you have a vote in England?

In any case, it does seem duplicitous that the government deny the vote to Irish citizens abroad, but also to foreign nationals living in the state.

I do indeed, I voted in the local elections here a couple of months ago. Interestingly, I found there to be a really poor field of candidates to choose from compared to where I lived in Ireland.

keith16 · 14-11-2014 12:21AM

DoctorEdgeWild wrote: »

I don't think I should have the right to decide how a society is run unless I contribute to that society.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this.

I was born in Ireland, lived there all my life and contributed an awful lot. Now that I don't live there anymore, doesn't mean I still don't take a keen interest on what still goes on there.

Furthermore, who's to say I won't ever return? Distance is hardly a factor either. Just because something is going on far away from me, doesn't mean I'm not interested in influencing it.

And maybe politics and democracy would be different in Ireland if expats had a say. And if that influence was real and tangible, maybe it would mean a lot of people return from abroad.

DoctorEdgeWild · 14-11-2014 12:29AM

keith16 wrote: »

I'm not sure I entirely agree with this.

I was born in Ireland, lived there all my life and contributed an awful lot. Now that I don't live there anymore, doesn't mean I still don't take a keen interest on what still goes on there.

Furthermore, who's to say I won't ever return? Distance is hardly a factor either. Just because something is going on far away from me, doesn't mean I'm not interested in influencing it.

And maybe politics and democracy would be different in Ireland if expats had a say. And if that influence was real and tangible, maybe it would mean a lot of people return from abroad.

I see your point and you put it across well but I have to disagree.

I am also interested in influencing things in Ireland, in making things better for my family and friends and, like yourself, contributed to society there for many years.

However, I feel I gave up that right when I left. I have no plans to ever return as my home is now here but I would only expect to be afforded a say if I did move back full time.

For me it comes down to a simple ideal - I shouldn't have a say in a society/community of which I am not a currently active member.

Henlars67 · 14-11-2014 01:04AM

As far as I know (couldn't be bothered looking for a source but read it a few times), the plan is to allow all Irish citizens to vote in presidential Elections. Think their might have been some talk about referendums as well.

I really don't see how anyone could have a problem with emigrants voting for a President, as it doesn't make any difference as to how the country is run, and as far as I'm concerned the President represents all Irish people regardless of where they live.

It wouldn't be practical to give emigrants a vote in local or general elections where there are so many constituencies, each with a separate ballot paper. Everyone gets the same ballot paper for a presidential election, so it would be relatively easy to do.

rainbow kirby · 14-11-2014 01:36AM

DoctorEdgeWild wrote: »

I do indeed, I voted in the local elections here a couple of months ago. Interestingly, I found there to be a really poor field of candidates to choose from compared to where I lived in Ireland.

Were 80% of your candidates from some variation of UKIP/BNP/miscellaneous racist idiots too? :eek:

I'd like to see it for the first 5 years after leaving Ireland. Covers most people who have left temporarily to find work and who do intend to return to Ireland. Someone who has stayed more than that probably intends on settling for the foreseeable future in their adopted country. The problem with allowing all Irish citizens the vote is the sheer volume of Catholic loopers in the US with an Irish grandparent who would drag us back to the dark ages in a heartbeat.

DoctorEdgeWild · 14-11-2014 08:22AM

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Were 80% of your candidates from some variation of UKIP/BNP/miscellaneous racist idiots too? :eek:

I'd like to see it for the first 5 years after leaving Ireland. Covers most people who have left temporarily to find work and who do intend to return to Ireland. Someone who has stayed more than that probably intends on settling for the foreseeable future in their adopted country. The problem with allowing all Irish citizens the vote is the sheer volume of Catholic loopers in the US with an Irish grandparent who would drag us back to the dark ages in a heartbeat.

My area is, so far, free of that particular scourge luckily. It's probably because I came from Dublin North Central where I remember there being a lot of independents to consider and read about before voting. Here in Worcestershire I didn't have to do more than a couple of hours research before reaching a decision.

I don't want a vote

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