Dail Suspended - Debate and Voting

Fr Tod Umptious · 14-11-2014 12:24AM

Spon Farmer wrote: »

This is absolutely their tactic - and it will probably work too.

And that's where I actually pity McDonald.

She being used as cannon fodder to deflect from Adams, a leader she or others cannot it seems heave against regardless of how much he continues to be a liability.

listermint · 14-11-2014 12:26AM

Godge wrote: »

Unfortunately, events in the Dail today are inextricably linked to SF efforts to distract from the child abuse scandal.

I dont see how ? FG have spent the last number of weeks talking about the abuse 'issue' the public doesnt care. Most people see this as a PSNI issue and nothing to do with us. Endas mock trial was exposed for the sham it was. Even the DPP wanted nothing to do with it.

Its all fun and games to get the eye off IW which is the bigger issue here. And that is a fact and that is what you have attempted to move the jumpers too.

Again i voted for FG and Labour and i never voted for SF. FG are making a mockery of the Dail whichever way your SF colours fly. Im tired of this nonsense.

Where are the bodies..... jesus FG are doing some job of giving SF votes people are sick of the crap. They may aswell host a SF party rather than keep up the sillyness in response to every legitimate question that is asked of them.

fergus1001 · 14-11-2014 12:29AM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The Dáil cannot debate or vote on legislation while it is in suspension. The government would not be able to pass legislation if it remained in suspension. In reality if you had a situation whereby deputies were preventing the Dáil from operating on a long term basis, the Captain of the Guard would be forced to take action to allow things to proceed.

Guards cannot remove elected representatives from the Dail so you can hold up legislation indefinitely or so the punters on the George hook show were saying

bajer101 · 14-11-2014 12:41AM

listermint wrote: »

I dont see how ? FG have spent the last number of weeks talking about the abuse 'issue' the public doesnt care. Most people see this as a PSNI issue and nothing to do with us. Endas mock trial was exposed for the sham it was. Even the DPP wanted nothing to do with it.

Its all fun and games to get the eye off IW which is the bigger issue here. And that is a fact and that is what you have attempted to move the jumpers too.

Again i voted for FG and Labour and i never voted for SF. FG are making a mockery of the Dail whichever way your SF colours fly. Im tired of this nonsense.

Where are the bodies..... jesus FG are doing some job of giving SF votes people are sick of the crap. They may aswell host a SF party rather than keep up the sillyness in response to every legitimate question that is asked of them.

I couldn't disagree more. I have always voted left-wing but the current debacles have pushed me more towards the mainstream parties and definitely further away from Sinn Féin. IW is a bandwagon that is being overdone at this stage. Every question in the Dáil seems to be about it.

The Shinners have been less than impressive with their handling of the Mairia Cahill story and it has raised some important questions. You might think that the ordinary punters don't care about these things - but they do. While they may wish to register a protest vote, and while they will say that they will vote for for Sinn Féin in the polls - when it comes to it, they will pull back at the last minute and give the vote to an independent instead. The Irish electorate may carry Lowry on their shoulders through the town square, because they will live with cute hoorism if they get their medical cards. They will turn a blind eye to the odd extension. But they won't turn a blind eye to sex offenders being across the border to us.

tayto lover · 14-11-2014 12:43AM

Did Mary-Lou hit a nerve with the questions she asked and why did Joan Burton not answer the questions?
Have the Govt plans to take water charges from SW and also to use Revenue?

Would love to know this.

listermint · 14-11-2014 12:58AM

bajer101 wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more. I have always voted left-wing but the current debacles have pushed me more towards the mainstream parties and definitely further away from Sinn Féin. IW is a bandwagon that is being overdone at this stage. Every question in the Dáil seems to be about it.

The Shinners have been less than impressive with their handling of the Mairia Cahill story and it has raised some important questions. You might think that the ordinary punters don't care about these things - but they do. While they may wish to register a protest vote, and while they will say that they will vote for for Sinn Féin in the polls - when it comes to it, they will pull back at the last minute and give the vote to an independent instead. The Irish electorate may carry Lowry on their shoulders through the town square, because they will live with cute hoorism if they get their medical cards. They will turn a blind eye to the odd extension. But they won't turn a blind eye to sex offenders being across the border to us.

Somehow i doubt it,

Anyway all that is for the other thread.

I still completely doubt it at all, in fact nobody i know is even talking about it. Its just a political football that real people dont really care about.

Godge · 14-11-2014 01:12AM

listermint wrote: »

I dont see how ? FG have spent the last number of weeks talking about the abuse 'issue' the public doesnt care. Most people see this as a PSNI issue and nothing to do with us. Endas mock trial was exposed for the sham it was. Even the DPP wanted nothing to do with it.

Its all fun and games to get the eye off IW which is the bigger issue here. And that is a fact and that is what you have attempted to move the jumpers too.

Again i voted for FG and Labour and i never voted for SF. FG are making a mockery of the Dail whichever way your SF colours fly. Im tired of this nonsense.

Where are the bodies..... jesus FG are doing some job of giving SF votes people are sick of the crap. They may aswell host a SF party rather than keep up the sillyness in response to every legitimate question that is asked of them.

Two young boys were abused in Louth and the perpretrator was let go by SF/IRA in the early 2000s.

Liam Adams was working in Dundalk in the relatively recent past.

An unknown number of SF/IRA child abusers were rehoused in the South and free to reoffend.

You obviously don't have children or don't know anyone who does.

bajer101 · 14-11-2014 01:36AM

listermint wrote: »

Somehow i doubt it,

Anyway all that is for the other thread.

I still completely doubt it at all, in fact nobody i know is even talking about it. Its just a political football that real people dont really care about.

You care enough about it to post! I think you'll find that people care an awful lot more about it than you think. It's not spoken about around the water cooler as much as it should because there's still a bit of a veil of silence when it comes to talking about Sinn Féin. Most Irish people have family members who were involved in the fight for independence and have a soft spot for "the cause". They mightn't talk about it openly, but they are assimilating all the info.

StudentDad · 14-11-2014 02:27AM

I find it interesting that the idea of getting rid of Adams will somehow make Sinn Fein more pr friendly. Maybe there is some truth in that to an extent. I can't see it happening anytime soon though and even if he were to walk off into the sunset, it won't make those awkward questions go away.

Regarding the actions of Sinn Fein members in the Dail, I can understand their frustration. As it stands the Dail doesn't seem to be much of a forum for debate.

SD

Spon Farmer · 14-11-2014 04:27AM

listermint wrote: »

Somehow i doubt it,

Anyway all that is for the other thread.

I still completely doubt it at all, in fact nobody i know is even talking about it. Its just a political football that real people dont really care about.

No, it may seem that way now because the protesters against Irish Water are just making the most noise - but even more are horrified at the reports that these "people" were sent down here.

Why aren't people up in arms?

Quite honestly because nobody knows what to make of it yet and peoe don't know who these "people" are.

I have a friend who works with the spouse of a Sinn Fein politician, and this person spends quite a bit of time bad mouthing Maria Cahill.

Spon Farmer · 14-11-2014 04:35AM

StudentDad wrote: »

I find it interesting that the idea of getting rid of Adams will somehow make Sinn Fein more pr friendly. Maybe there is some truth in that to an extent. I can't see it happening anytime soon though and even if he were to walk off into the sunset, it won't make those awkward questions go away.

Regarding the actions of Sinn Fein members in the Dail, I can understand their frustration. As it stands the Dail doesn't seem to be much of a forum for debate.

SD

If that is the case, isn't it better to behave like adults and get some actual work done instead of carrying on like idiots, as Sinn Feinn has done?

No, getting rid of Adams won't make the party more "PR friendly" - it would just make them better.

There was a time when I would would never have believed McDonald would behave like she did today. Since Adams came south, she has gone downhill.

Cookie_Monster · 14-11-2014 09:02AM

with the whip system in place why even bother with the debates (from the govts point of view), you know you can pass whatever you want without caring what the opposition think...

raymon · 14-11-2014 09:08AM

I think this sets a dangerous precedent . If any other publicity craving diva deputy wants to get their face on the front pages of the newspapers all they have to do is stage a sit in and stop the Dail from functioning.

A new era of whinge politics has dawned. We'll done Sinn Fein .

Little CuChulainn · 14-11-2014 09:42AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Did Mary-Lou hit a nerve with the questions she asked and why did Joan Burton not answer the questions?
Have the Govt plans to take water charges from SW and also to use Revenue?

Would love to know this.

Don't worry. Sinn Fein have decided to suspend democracy until they can force an answer. An interesting insight into what they would be prepared to do on power.

FreudianSlippers · 14-11-2014 10:23AM

Headline: Our saviour MLMcD prevents Dail from voting on days in which it already does not vote! What's this fantastic woman going to do next? Make a massive ball of radiation and light appear in the... OH MY GOD!

:rolleyes:

Sierra Oscar · 14-11-2014 10:53AM

fergus1001 wrote: »

Guards cannot remove elected representatives from the Dail so you can hold up legislation indefinitely or so the punters on the George hook show were saying

The Gardai may not be able to but the Captain of the Guard, a Commandant, can and indeed must if that is what the Ceann Comhairle orders.

Fred Swanson · 14-11-2014 10:54AM

This post has been deleted.

Little CuChulainn · 14-11-2014 10:56AM

Is there any evidence out there of this emergency legislation that was to be pushed today? DDI are claiming Mary Lou referenced it before being suspended but I don't see it in any of the clips.

the groutch · 14-11-2014 11:58AM

raymon wrote: »

I think this sets a dangerous precedent . If any other publicity craving diva deputy wants to get their face on the front pages of the newspapers all they have to do is stage a sit in and stop the Dail from functioning.

A new era of whinge politics has dawned. We'll done Sinn Fein .

do you remember the last time she was removed from the Dail?
Barrett did it because she addressed a TD directly rather than through the chair, something that government TDs do all the time.

Sinn Fein had long before yesterday lost any confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, and yesterday's sit-in was a result of it.

Godge · 14-11-2014 12:01PM

the groutch wrote: »

do you remember the last time she was removed from the Dail?
Barrett did it because she addressed a TD directly rather than through the chair, something that government TDs do all the time.

Sinn Fein had long before yesterday lost any confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, and yesterday's sit-in was a result of it.

Yes, but the democratic way of responding to that is to put forward a motion of no-confidence in the Ceann Comhairle and have a debate.

The bullyboy, just one step removed from violence tactic is to have a sit-in and ignore the democratic procedures of the Dail.

The first one is the right thing to do, the second one is publicity-grabbing thing to do.

FreudianSlippers · 14-11-2014 12:10PM

the groutch wrote: »

do you remember the last time she was removed from the Dail?
Barrett did it because she addressed a TD directly rather than through the chair, something that government TDs do all the time.

Sinn Fein had long before yesterday lost any confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, and yesterday's sit-in was a result of it.

I'm sorry, that's not factually accurate. She was reminded of the rule not to address the TD directly, she was removed for flat out ignoring the CC and continuing her nonsensical diatribe.

If you're going to make **** up, at least try to go for things that are not factually on the record.

walshb · 14-11-2014 12:13PM

The problem here is that when rules are enforced and applied we get the whole "anti Sinn Fein" reply. Democracy must always prevail. If not we aren't too far from anarchy. That is how delicate these issues are. I respect SF, but I am losing confidence in them.

FreudianSlippers · 14-11-2014 12:19PM

The reality is that the rules are enforced all the time. If Mick Wallace can follow the rules when told to do so, I expect someone like MLMcD (on the same intellectual level) to be able to follow the rules too.

She didn't, rightfully was expelled and that's that.

walshb · 14-11-2014 12:24PM

Well, IMO these issues should be stamped out authoritatively. No ifs and buts. If a Dail TD refuses to obey a 'legal command,' then they should be forcibly removed and punished for their actions. These people are the supposed pillars of the community. The people influencing society. Is it in our laws that she should have been forcibly ejected from the Dail?

crusher000 · 14-11-2014 12:32PM

Godge wrote: »

Yes, but the democratic way of responding to that is to put forward a motion of no-confidence in the Ceann Comhairle and have a debate.

The bullyboy, just one step removed from violence tactic is to have a sit-in and ignore the democratic procedures of the Dail.

The first one is the right thing to do, the second one is publicity-grabbing thing to do.

becuase sit ins are so violent , process is the correct way but in my view some people in the dail have to follow process and others don't. Why is this?

crusher000 · 14-11-2014 12:36PM

If the captain of the guard being a man physically man handled Mary Lou can you imagine the ire that would fall on his head. You'd have every womans rights organisation screaming blue murder and in fairness rightly or wrongly is it right to have someone physically removed from the Dail in a democratic society whether it's a man or a woman ?.

walshb · 14-11-2014 12:52PM

crusher000 wrote: »

If the captain of the guard being a man physically man handled Mary Lou can you imagine the ire that would fall on his head. You'd have every womans rights organisation screaming blue murder and in fairness rightly or wrongly is it right to have someone physically removed from the Dail in a democratic society whether it's a man or a woman ?.

Right or wrong to remove shouldn't come into it. If it's in the law then it should be enforced. I was wondering it it is in the law that it should happen.

FreudianSlippers · 14-11-2014 01:04PM

walshb wrote: »

Right or wrong to remove shouldn't come into it. If it's in the law then it should be enforced. I was wondering it it is in the law that it should happen.

The standing orders:

61. (1) The Ceann Comhairle shall order a member whose conduct is
grossly disorderly to withdraw immediately from the Dáil for the
remainder of that day's sitting. If, however, on any occasion the Ceann
Comhairle deems that the powers conferred under this Standing Order are
inadequate to deal with the offence, he or she may, in accordance with the
next succeeding Standing Order, name such member for misconduct, or he
or she may call on the Dáil to adjudge upon his or her conduct. Members
ordered to withdraw in pursuance of this Standing Order, or who are
suspended in pursuance of the next succeeding Standing Order, shall
forthwith withdraw from the precincts of the Dáil.

(2) A member may be named or the Dáil called on to adjudge upon his or
her conduct only when the Ceann Comhairle is in the Chair.

It's unambiguous that the member shall (which is an important word in legislation) withdraw. My reading would be that they cannot be forcibly removed, but they are expected to remove themselves when direct to do so.

I'm not entirely sure where the question of her removal comes into it though? She refused to leave and the CC had no option but to suspend the Dail - revolting behaviour by MLMcD and SF.

raymon · 14-11-2014 01:06PM

the groutch wrote: »

do you remember the last time she was removed from the Dail?
Barrett did it because she addressed a TD directly rather than through the chair, something that government TDs do all the time.

Sinn Fein had long before yesterday lost any confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, and yesterday's sit-in was a result of it.

This has nothing to do with anything other than the fact that she wants to move on from the abuse discourse and put her face in the papers for something populist.

It was a carefully choreographed stunt.

By sitting on the ball with her arms folded, she prevented the rest of the dail from holding the government to account.

I didn't see Pearse Doherty standing shoulder to shoulder with her in the press conference on the plinth ...... was he hiding again ?

Godge · 14-11-2014 01:07PM

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

The standing orders:

It's unambiguous that the member shall (which is an important word in legislation) withdraw. My reading would be that they cannot be forcibly removed, but they are expected to remove themselves when direct to do so.

I'm not entirely sure where the question of her removal comes into it though? She refused to leave and the CC had no option but to suspend the Dail - revolting behaviour by MLMcD and SF.

Yes, but you have to be a democrat to follow the rules. If you don't believe in democracy or don't respect the legitimacy of Dail Eireann, you are not bound by the Standing Orders and you can stage a sit-in.

Dail Suspended - Debate and Voting

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