Dail Suspended - Debate and Voting

listermint

Perhaps the more enlightened among us as to how a Debate and a Vote of important legislation can take place with a suspended Dail.

Is there precedent for this, is this the done thing ?

I am having trouble understanding how the government debates or votes or enacts legislation in this sort of situation

Or is the debate and subsequent vote cancelled in these situations ?



I thought this warranted a discussion thread of its own.

raymon

I hope the debate and vote still goes ahead after all the Sinn Fein toys are put back in the pram.

Harry Angstrom

Perhaps the debate might begin when a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle is appointed.

listermint

raymon wrote: »

I hope the debate and vote still goes ahead after all the Sinn Fein toys are put back in the pram.

You hope the vote still goes ahead with out all TDs in the Dail? is that what you posted?

raymon

listermint wrote: »

You hope the vote still goes ahead with out all TDs in the Dail? is that what you posted?

No ,

The vote should go ahead when the Dail is reconvened.

It reminds me of a spoilt child sitting on the football so nobody else can play.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Sierra Oscar

The Dáil cannot debate or vote on legislation while it is in suspension. The government would not be able to pass legislation if it remained in suspension. In reality if you had a situation whereby deputies were preventing the Dáil from operating on a long term basis, the Captain of the Guard would be forced to take action to allow things to proceed.

ThisRegard

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Perhaps the debate might begin when a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle is appointed.

Or maybe people adhere to a democratic vote of their peers, rather than picking and choosing what suits them.

As is this is her second suspense, does she lose dail facilities or something like that?

walshb

Can she not be physically removed from the Dail?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Spon Farmer

Now Gerry Adams is looking to oust the Ceann Comhairle?

It is a bit obvious that Sinn Fein are just blowing smoke to distract from the abuse scandal.

Mary Lou McDonald is one of the more capable TDs. When is she going to realise that she and Sinn Fein will be much better off without Adams.

And I'm no Sinn Fein supporter, so if I can see it, why can't Sinn Fein?

ThisRegard

walshb wrote: »

Can she not be physically removed from the Dail?

Can you imagine the propaganda value to SF if that happened? Best leave her there showing she's not that into the democratic workings of the state.

Godge

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

Perhaps the debate might begin when a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle is appointed.

Perhaps a Sinn Fein member? I mean, they have to be the most non-partisan political party around:rolleyes:

Harry Angstrom

Godge wrote: »

Perhaps a Sinn Fein member? I mean, they have to be the most non-partisan political party around:rolleyes:

I'm not a Sinn Fein member, and I've voted Labour all my life but you can believe what you like, I'm not bothered.

Godge

Harry Angstrom wrote: »

I'm not a Sinn Fein member, and I've voted Labour all my life but you can believe what you like, I'm not bothered.

Well, genuinely explain to me where you can find a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle?

Ruairi Quinn is the only name that comes to me who could do the job. Certainly there is no talent on the opposition benches capable of it.

bajer101

Godge wrote: »

Well, genuinely explain to me where you can find a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle?

Ruairi Quinn is the only name that comes to me who could do the job. Certainly there is no talent on the opposition benches capable of it.

Stephen Donnelly?

BoJack Horseman

bajer101 wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly?

Donnelly didn't run just to take up a thankless refereeing/admin role.

He wouldn't touch it.

bajer101

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Donnelly didn't run just to take up a thankless refereeing/admin role.

He wouldn't touch it.

True, but I don't think anyone would accuse him of being partisan or unfair. If getting the Dáil suspended becomes a tactic that stops the Dáil functioning, it will become very important to have a Ceann Comhairle whose rulings are obeyed without question.

hfallada

Does anyone else find it weird, that the greater the alleged cover up of abuse by SF. The more vocal they are about the water charges. It appears to be keeping the the spotlight of the abuse away from them and focused on 360 degrees turn on water charges.

Spon Farmer

Godge wrote: »

Well, genuinely explain to me where you can find a non-partisan Ceann Comhairle?

Ruairi Quinn is the only name that comes to me who could do the job. Certainly there is no talent on the opposition benches capable of it.

Does the Ceann Comhairle have to be Irish?

I have a friend in the UK who could do it - she has Irish grandparents.

She'd have everyone getting along

Spon Farmer

hfallada wrote: »

Does anyone else find it weird, that the greater the alleged cover up of abuse by SF. The more vocal they are about the water charges. It appears to be keeping the the spotlight of the abuse away from them and focused on 360 degrees turn on water charges.

This is absolutely their tactic - and it will probably work too.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

listermint

hfallada wrote: »

Does anyone else find it weird, that the greater the alleged cover up of abuse by SF. The more vocal they are about the water charges. It appears to be keeping the the spotlight of the abuse away from them and focused on 360 degrees turn on water charges.

If i wanted to discuss the water charges or abuse cover up id have opened a thread titled that.

I didnt, id probably have also brought in all the other parties too FF FG and Labour who sat by for years covering up systematic abuse in this country.


So enough about finger pointing and back to my question. Some helpful posters have answered it somewhat.

Spon Farmer

Fred Swanson wrote: »

The Ceann Comhairle has to be a sitting TD. No other restriction on nationality.

I'll give her a call - she'll bluff her way in

Seriously though, Barrett is good at his job - if anyone truly wants to cause this kind of rubbish they'll do it no matter who is in the chair.

Would McDonald really have carried on like this if it wasn't for Adams and his baggage?

bajer101

Spon Farmer wrote: »

This is absolutely their tactic - and it will probably work too.

I tend to agree. Today's events have opened up a can of worms that has a fair bit of mileage yet. While there may be an issue with the Ceann Comhairle's impartiality and while something does need to be done about Government Minister's not answering questions - the overriding issue for me is that someone was allowed to stop our Parliament functioning. Despite my misgivings about the Government and the Ceann Comhairle, I am more annoyed that someone was allowed to disrupt the Dáil, after our democratically elected representatives voted to eject that person.

Spon Farmer

listermint wrote: »

If i wanted to discuss the water charges or abuse cover up id have opened a thread titled that.

I didnt, id probably have also brought in all the other parties too FF FG and Labour who sat by for years covering up systematic abuse in this country.


So enough about finger pointing and back to my question. Some helpful posters have answered it somewhat.

It is related though - it is at the core of what Sinn Fein are doing.

Godge

bajer101 wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly?

Wouldn't do it. It kills your political career. Name a Ceann Comhairle who went on to better things.

Couldn't do it. It also needs someone who knows Dail procedure and precedence and who has been around for a while, rules out first-time TDs.

There is a very short list of people who are respected on all sides of the Dail, you can immediately rule out anyone from Sinn Fein, any of the wacky independents, most FF, FG and Labour backbenchers.

Former Ministers are always a potential choice. They owe nobody anything and are well experienced.

O'Dea and O'Cuiv are tainted by their involvement in the Government that ruined the country. Gilmore was tanaiste recently, can't be him.

Leaves Rabbitte and Quinn, not sure Rabbitte would be good for the job.

Godge

listermint wrote: »

If i wanted to discuss the water charges or abuse cover up id have opened a thread titled that.

I didnt, id probably have also brought in all the other parties too FF FG and Labour who sat by for years covering up systematic abuse in this country.


So enough about finger pointing and back to my question. Some helpful posters have answered it somewhat.

Unfortunately, events in the Dail today are inextricably linked to SF efforts to distract from the child abuse scandal.

bajer101

Godge wrote: »

Wouldn't do it. It kills your political career. Name a Ceann Comhairle who went on to better things.

Couldn't do it. It also needs someone who knows Dail procedure and precedence and who has been around for a while, rules out first-time TDs.

There is a very short list of people who are respected on all sides of the Dail, you can immediately rule out anyone from Sinn Fein, any of the wacky independents, most FF, FG and Labour backbenchers.

Former Ministers are always a potential choice. They owe nobody anything and are well experienced.

O'Dea and O'Cuiv are tainted by their involvement in the Government that ruined the country. Gilmore was tanaiste recently, can't be him.

Leaves Rabbitte and Quinn, not sure Rabbitte would be good for the job.

I absolutely concede the point that Donnelly isn't a suitable candidate at the moment, and was more thinking out loud. The question got me thinking about who would be an acceptable neutral who was well respected and his name was the only one I could come up with.

If we are moving into an era where the Dáil cannot function due to disruptive tactics it will become a role that will have to be looked at more seriously.

Godge

bajer101 wrote: »

I absolutely concede the point that Donnelly isn't a suitable candidate at the moment, and was more thinking out loud. The question got me thinking about who would be an acceptable neutral who was well respected and his name was the only one I could come up with.

If we are moving into an era where the Dáil cannot function due to disruptive tactics it will become a role that will have to be looked at more seriously.

It is difficult to think of someone respected on all sides and who has sufficient experience. The next Dail could be really short of a suitable candidate.

Fr Tod Umptious

Godge wrote: »

It is difficult to think of someone respected on all sides and who has sufficient experience. The next Dail could be really short of a suitable candidate.

But there is always someone from the back benches that has been around for years that few have heard about but is well respected.

The last holder of the office was Seamus Kirk, whom I doubt many outside Louth ever heard of.

Fr Tod Umptious

Spon Farmer wrote: »

This is absolutely their tactic - and it will probably work too.

And that's where I actually pity McDonald.

She being used as cannon fodder to deflect from Adams, a leader she or others cannot it seems heave against regardless of how much he continues to be a liability.

listermint

Godge wrote: »

Unfortunately, events in the Dail today are inextricably linked to SF efforts to distract from the child abuse scandal.

I dont see how ? FG have spent the last number of weeks talking about the abuse 'issue' the public doesnt care. Most people see this as a PSNI issue and nothing to do with us. Endas mock trial was exposed for the sham it was. Even the DPP wanted nothing to do with it.

Its all fun and games to get the eye off IW which is the bigger issue here. And that is a fact and that is what you have attempted to move the jumpers too.

Again i voted for FG and Labour and i never voted for SF. FG are making a mockery of the Dail whichever way your SF colours fly. Im tired of this nonsense.

Where are the bodies..... jesus FG are doing some job of giving SF votes people are sick of the crap. They may aswell host a SF party rather than keep up the sillyness in response to every legitimate question that is asked of them.

fergus1001

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The Dáil cannot debate or vote on legislation while it is in suspension. The government would not be able to pass legislation if it remained in suspension. In reality if you had a situation whereby deputies were preventing the Dáil from operating on a long term basis, the Captain of the Guard would be forced to take action to allow things to proceed.

Guards cannot remove elected representatives from the Dail so you can hold up legislation indefinitely or so the punters on the George hook show were saying

bajer101

listermint wrote: »

I dont see how ? FG have spent the last number of weeks talking about the abuse 'issue' the public doesnt care. Most people see this as a PSNI issue and nothing to do with us. Endas mock trial was exposed for the sham it was. Even the DPP wanted nothing to do with it.

Its all fun and games to get the eye off IW which is the bigger issue here. And that is a fact and that is what you have attempted to move the jumpers too.

Again i voted for FG and Labour and i never voted for SF. FG are making a mockery of the Dail whichever way your SF colours fly. Im tired of this nonsense.

Where are the bodies..... jesus FG are doing some job of giving SF votes people are sick of the crap. They may aswell host a SF party rather than keep up the sillyness in response to every legitimate question that is asked of them.

I couldn't disagree more. I have always voted left-wing but the current debacles have pushed me more towards the mainstream parties and definitely further away from Sinn Féin. IW is a bandwagon that is being overdone at this stage. Every question in the Dáil seems to be about it.

The Shinners have been less than impressive with their handling of the Mairia Cahill story and it has raised some important questions. You might think that the ordinary punters don't care about these things - but they do. While they may wish to register a protest vote, and while they will say that they will vote for for Sinn Féin in the polls - when it comes to it, they will pull back at the last minute and give the vote to an independent instead. The Irish electorate may carry Lowry on their shoulders through the town square, because they will live with cute hoorism if they get their medical cards. They will turn a blind eye to the odd extension. But they won't turn a blind eye to sex offenders being across the border to us.

tayto lover

Did Mary-Lou hit a nerve with the questions she asked and why did Joan Burton not answer the questions?
Have the Govt plans to take water charges from SW and also to use Revenue?

Would love to know this.

listermint

bajer101 wrote: »

I couldn't disagree more. I have always voted left-wing but the current debacles have pushed me more towards the mainstream parties and definitely further away from Sinn Féin. IW is a bandwagon that is being overdone at this stage. Every question in the Dáil seems to be about it.

The Shinners have been less than impressive with their handling of the Mairia Cahill story and it has raised some important questions. You might think that the ordinary punters don't care about these things - but they do. While they may wish to register a protest vote, and while they will say that they will vote for for Sinn Féin in the polls - when it comes to it, they will pull back at the last minute and give the vote to an independent instead. The Irish electorate may carry Lowry on their shoulders through the town square, because they will live with cute hoorism if they get their medical cards. They will turn a blind eye to the odd extension. But they won't turn a blind eye to sex offenders being across the border to us.

Somehow i doubt it,

Anyway all that is for the other thread.


I still completely doubt it at all, in fact nobody i know is even talking about it. Its just a political football that real people dont really care about.

Godge

listermint wrote: »

I dont see how ? FG have spent the last number of weeks talking about the abuse 'issue' the public doesnt care. Most people see this as a PSNI issue and nothing to do with us. Endas mock trial was exposed for the sham it was. Even the DPP wanted nothing to do with it.

Its all fun and games to get the eye off IW which is the bigger issue here. And that is a fact and that is what you have attempted to move the jumpers too.

Again i voted for FG and Labour and i never voted for SF. FG are making a mockery of the Dail whichever way your SF colours fly. Im tired of this nonsense.

Where are the bodies..... jesus FG are doing some job of giving SF votes people are sick of the crap. They may aswell host a SF party rather than keep up the sillyness in response to every legitimate question that is asked of them.

Two young boys were abused in Louth and the perpretrator was let go by SF/IRA in the early 2000s.

Liam Adams was working in Dundalk in the relatively recent past.

An unknown number of SF/IRA child abusers were rehoused in the South and free to reoffend.

You obviously don't have children or don't know anyone who does.

bajer101

listermint wrote: »

Somehow i doubt it,

Anyway all that is for the other thread.


I still completely doubt it at all, in fact nobody i know is even talking about it. Its just a political football that real people dont really care about.

You care enough about it to post! I think you'll find that people care an awful lot more about it than you think. It's not spoken about around the water cooler as much as it should because there's still a bit of a veil of silence when it comes to talking about Sinn Féin. Most Irish people have family members who were involved in the fight for independence and have a soft spot for "the cause". They mightn't talk about it openly, but they are assimilating all the info.

StudentDad

I find it interesting that the idea of getting rid of Adams will somehow make Sinn Fein more pr friendly. Maybe there is some truth in that to an extent. I can't see it happening anytime soon though and even if he were to walk off into the sunset, it won't make those awkward questions go away.

Regarding the actions of Sinn Fein members in the Dail, I can understand their frustration. As it stands the Dail doesn't seem to be much of a forum for debate.

SD

Spon Farmer

listermint wrote: »

Somehow i doubt it,

Anyway all that is for the other thread.


I still completely doubt it at all, in fact nobody i know is even talking about it. Its just a political football that real people dont really care about.

No, it may seem that way now because the protesters against Irish Water are just making the most noise - but even more are horrified at the reports that these "people" were sent down here.

Why aren't people up in arms?

Quite honestly because nobody knows what to make of it yet and peoe don't know who these "people" are.

I have a friend who works with the spouse of a Sinn Fein politician, and this person spends quite a bit of time bad mouthing Maria Cahill.

Spon Farmer

StudentDad wrote: »

I find it interesting that the idea of getting rid of Adams will somehow make Sinn Fein more pr friendly. Maybe there is some truth in that to an extent. I can't see it happening anytime soon though and even if he were to walk off into the sunset, it won't make those awkward questions go away.

Regarding the actions of Sinn Fein members in the Dail, I can understand their frustration. As it stands the Dail doesn't seem to be much of a forum for debate.

SD

If that is the case, isn't it better to behave like adults and get some actual work done instead of carrying on like idiots, as Sinn Feinn has done?

No, getting rid of Adams won't make the party more "PR friendly" - it would just make them better.

There was a time when I would would never have believed McDonald would behave like she did today. Since Adams came south, she has gone downhill.

Cookie_Monster

with the whip system in place why even bother with the debates (from the govts point of view), you know you can pass whatever you want without caring what the opposition think...

raymon

I think this sets a dangerous precedent . If any other publicity craving diva deputy wants to get their face on the front pages of the newspapers all they have to do is stage a sit in and stop the Dail from functioning.

A new era of whinge politics has dawned. We'll done Sinn Fein .

Little CuChulainn

tayto lover wrote: »

Did Mary-Lou hit a nerve with the questions she asked and why did Joan Burton not answer the questions?
Have the Govt plans to take water charges from SW and also to use Revenue?

Would love to know this.

Don't worry. Sinn Fein have decided to suspend democracy until they can force an answer. An interesting insight into what they would be prepared to do on power.

FreudianSlippers

Headline: Our saviour MLMcD prevents Dail from voting on days in which it already does not vote! What's this fantastic woman going to do next? Make a massive ball of radiation and light appear in the... OH MY GOD!




:rolleyes:

Sierra Oscar

fergus1001 wrote: »

Guards cannot remove elected representatives from the Dail so you can hold up legislation indefinitely or so the punters on the George hook show were saying

The Gardai may not be able to but the Captain of the Guard, a Commandant, can and indeed must if that is what the Ceann Comhairle orders.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Little CuChulainn

Is there any evidence out there of this emergency legislation that was to be pushed today? DDI are claiming Mary Lou referenced it before being suspended but I don't see it in any of the clips.

the groutch

raymon wrote: »

I think this sets a dangerous precedent . If any other publicity craving diva deputy wants to get their face on the front pages of the newspapers all they have to do is stage a sit in and stop the Dail from functioning.

A new era of whinge politics has dawned. We'll done Sinn Fein .

do you remember the last time she was removed from the Dail?
Barrett did it because she addressed a TD directly rather than through the chair, something that government TDs do all the time.

Sinn Fein had long before yesterday lost any confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, and yesterday's sit-in was a result of it.

Godge

the groutch wrote: »

do you remember the last time she was removed from the Dail?
Barrett did it because she addressed a TD directly rather than through the chair, something that government TDs do all the time.

Sinn Fein had long before yesterday lost any confidence in the Ceann Comhairle, and yesterday's sit-in was a result of it.

Yes, but the democratic way of responding to that is to put forward a motion of no-confidence in the Ceann Comhairle and have a debate.

The bullyboy, just one step removed from violence tactic is to have a sit-in and ignore the democratic procedures of the Dail.

The first one is the right thing to do, the second one is publicity-grabbing thing to do.