Should Christians be celebrating Pagan Holidays such as Christmas?

Terrlock · 13-11-2014 12:34PM #1

Is it right for followers of the Lord to Celebrate Halloween, Christmas and Easter.

All these Holidays have Pagan roots, in which Christianity has basically tried to Christianize and incorporate them into their celebrations to the Lord.

However does this not go against what the scriptures teaches us not to use the ways of the Pagan's to worship the Lord.

Kirk Cameroon has a new movie called Saving Christmas which defends christian celebrating the Season.

Should we not be instead celebrating the Lords Feast days as he has given us in Scripture.

If there is a post already covering this topic please remove, I just didn't see one.

Peregrinus · 13-11-2014 03:11PM

Well, I have to point out that Sunday is a pagan festival, coming to us from the extremely pagan Babylonian culture, which created the seven-day week. The Jews had no difficulty in adopting that week, and celebrating one of its days as the sabbath, and the Christians had no difficulty about moving their celebration to another of it's days.

In short, taking over pagan festivals and "repurposing" them is something the People of God have been doing since forever, and there is abundant scriptural warrant for the practice.

JimiTime · 13-11-2014 03:34PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

In short, taking over pagan festivals and "repurposing" them is something the People of God have been doing since forever, and there is abundant scriptural warrant for the practice.

Could you elaborate on that in terms of the scriptural warrant for the practice?

Terrlock · 13-11-2014 04:05PM

According to scripture God created the 7 day week as we can see from Genesis I presume that the Babylonian's came after the initial creation period.

I can't find in scripture where it warrants the practice of using pagan festivals. I can however find the Lord warning against using them.

Can you please provide where in scripture it warrants it?

lazybones32 · 13-11-2014 05:49PM

Christmas is the Christian celebration of the birth of Our Lord Jesus Christ (Christ's Mass). The Church never claimed He was born on the 25th of December but chose to celebrate it on that day. Scripture doesn't demand or denounce the celebration of the Word becoming flesh but the Church does.

Easter is a pagan festival but at this time, Christians celebrate the sufferings, death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Again, I don't think Scripture demands and prohibits celebration of these mysteries but the Church does. We know the date He died and the Irish Church caused a bit of furore when they insisted on celebrating it on it's anniversary, rather than ensuring that the celebration was held on a Friday and Sunday.

Halloween isn't a scriptural concept but the Church made November a month for remembering all dead people because people, being people, need and want to remember, honour and feel close to those who are no longer with us.

Point being: Christians are not celebrating the Pagan festivals but the Christian mysteries.

And scripture does indeed advise the People to celebrate their festivals (it's in one of the minor prophets). You do know the Jews in biblical times had new moon celebrations, right?Maybe the still do... Doesn't that sound a bit pagan?

homer911 · 13-11-2014 05:58PM

Isn't Easter Sunday dictated by the moon?

The first Sunday after (but never on) the Paschal full moon. Theoretically, the Paschal full moon is the first full moon occurring on or after the spring equinox..

Terrlock · 13-11-2014 07:02PM

Easter comes from the worship of the Goddess Ishtar. Pretty much breaks the 1st commandment me thinks.

Manach · 13-11-2014 08:48PM

One: Gosh the clue is in the name.
Two: This is such an old Protestant canard that certain uses, attempting to link Paganism to the Church. It historically did not work with Cromwell, so a bit surprised to see it still in place.
Three: Christmas is a time of celebration of the family which is at the heart of Christian worship, only a bleak and individualistic self-interpretation of the Bible would find issue with it.
Four : To image in a historical context of Paul's outreach to the Gentiles that Christmas should not be celebrated as a means to embrace and extend the then holidays and make them their own ignores the joyous and celebratory aspect that writers like Chesterton mark as key to a merciful God.

Not to mark Christmas would be a wilful, deliberate and ahistorical misreading of the Birth of Christ,

Benny_Cake · 13-11-2014 09:24PM

Terrlock wrote: »

Easter comes from the worship of the Goddess Ishtar. Pretty much breaks the 1st commandment me thinks.

I hadn't heard that before - this article from Scientific American seems to indicate it's something of an urban legend:

http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/anthropology-in-practice/2013/03/31/beyond-ishtar-the-tradition-of-eggs-at-easter/

Terrlock · 13-11-2014 10:08PM

Manach wrote: »

One: Gosh the clue is in the name.
Two: This is such an old Protestant canard that certain uses, attempting to link Paganism to the Church. It historically did not work with Cromwell, so a bit surprised to see it still in place.
Three: Christmas is a time of celebration of the family which is at the heart of Christian worship, only a bleak and individualistic self-interpretation of the Bible would find issue with it.
Four : To image in a historical context of Paul's outreach to the Gentiles that Christmas should not be celebrated as a means to embrace and extend the then holidays and make them their own ignores the joyous and celebratory aspect that writers like Chesterton mark as key to a merciful God.

Not to mark Christmas would be a wilful, deliberate and ahistorical misreading of the Birth of Christ,

What do you mean by Church?

Cromwell's invasion of Ireland was sanctioned by the Pope at the time.

Also how would not to mark Christmas be a willful, deliberate and historical mis reading of the birth of Christ - I guess more the question here is what scriptural evidence points to the current Christmas period as being Birth of Christ?

I still can't find any scriptural basis for celebrating Christmas, however throughout the scriptures it warns against it.

Festus · 13-11-2014 10:29PM

Terrlock wrote: »

Cromwell's invasion of Ireland was sanctioned by the Pope at the time.

I'm not a historian but I find this interesting. Do you have a source or citation for this?

jimd2 · 13-11-2014 11:03PM

Terrlock wrote: »

Is it right for followers of the Lord to Celebrate Halloween, Christmas and Easter.

All these Holidays have Pagan roots, in which Christianity has basically tried to Christianize and incorporate them into their celebrations to the Lord.

However does this not go against what the scriptures teaches us not to use the ways of the Pagan's to worship the Lord.

Kirk Cameroon has a new movie called Saving Christmas which defends christian celebrating the Season.

Should we not be instead celebrating the Lords Feast days as he has given us in Scripture.

If there is a post already covering this topic please remove, I just didn't see one.

Absolutely, it is a celebration of Christ's birth and the vast majority of Irish people have grown up celebrating it for that very reason.

But, since you are so interested in who should or should not be celebrating the upcoming festive season why dont you tip over to the Atheist forum and ask do they feel that they should be celebrating Christmas like the rest of us?

katydid · 13-11-2014 11:59PM

Terrlock wrote: »

Is it right for followers of the Lord to Celebrate Halloween, Christmas and Easter.

All these Holidays have Pagan roots, in which Christianity has basically tried to Christianize and incorporate them into their celebrations to the Lord.

However does this not go against what the scriptures teaches us not to use the ways of the Pagan's to worship the Lord.

Kirk Cameroon has a new movie called Saving Christmas which defends christian celebrating the Season.

Should we not be instead celebrating the Lords Feast days as he has given us in Scripture.

If there is a post already covering this topic please remove, I just didn't see one.

Having pagan roots is not the same as being pagan. Christianity used pagan ceremonies and concepts and adapted them. If anything, that's all the more reason to celebrate them - one can see it as the triumph of Christianity over Paganism...

Peregrinus · 14-11-2014 02:42AM

JimiTime wrote: »

Could you elaborate on that in terms of the scriptural warrant for the practice?

Well, Ex 23:12, for example.

Peregrinus · 14-11-2014 02:44AM

Terrlock wrote: »

According to scripture God created the 7 day week as we can see from Genesis I presume that the Babylonian's came after the initial creation period.

I can't find in scripture where it warrants the practice of using pagan festivals. I can however find the Lord warning against using them.

Can you please provide where in scripture it warrants it?

The Babylonians came well after creation, but well before Genesis was written. When the Israelites produced the Book of Genesis, they already had a seven-day week which they had acquired from the Babylonians. One of the functions of Genesis is to explain why they attribute a religious significance to the seventh day, and attach certain observances to it.

Peregrinus · 14-11-2014 02:54AM

Terrlock wrote: »

Easter comes from the worship of the Goddess Ishtar. Pretty much breaks the 1st commandment me thinks.

The word "Easter", used only by English-speaking Christians, is thought to come from an Indo-European root meaning "dawn". It's possible, but not certain, that the name of the Babylonian fertility goddess Ishtar comes from the same root, but if so the two words descend separately; "Easter" certainly does not come from "Ishtar".

The festival that English-speakers call "Easter" is much older than the English word, and in most parts of the world has never been called by that name or any similar name; it's called by various names which all descend from the Hebrew Pesach, Passover. And there's a bit of a clue there to the real roots of the Christian festival. It has never had anything to do with the worship of Ishtar. People who suggest that it did have clearly not given the matter much thought.

It's worth pointing out that if the word "Easter" possibly has pagan roots, the word "God" definitely does; it comes to us from the Germanic languages, and originally referred to the norse/pagan gods. Those who think that the festival is somehow paganised by English-speaking Christians applying the word "Easter" to it must accept that it follows the whole Christian religion is paganised by English-speaking Christians applying the word "God" to the Divinity.

Peregrinus · 14-11-2014 02:56AM

Festus wrote: »

I'm not a historian but I find this interesting. Do you have a source or citation for this?

I think Terrlock is possibly confusing Cromwell with either Henry II or (more likely) William of Orange, both of whom did enjoy papal backing. Cromwell certainly did not.

Peregrinus · 14-11-2014 02:59AM

homer911 wrote: »

Isn't Easter Sunday dictated by the moon?

Yes, it is, because it comes from the Jewish festival of Pesach, and the Jewish festival was fixed by the lunar character which the Israelites acquired from the Babylonians. All the Jewish festivals were fixed by the phases of the moon. Easter is unusual because it's fixed by the moon and the sun; its the first Sunday after the first full moon following the northern vernal equinox. It's this combination of lunar and solar referents which causes the festival to bounce around the calendar in such a notable way.

Terrlock · 14-11-2014 12:30PM

jimd2 wrote: »

Absolutely, it is a celebration of Christ's birth and the vast majority of Irish people have grown up celebrating it for that very reason.

But, since you are so interested in who should or should not be celebrating the upcoming festive season why don't you tip over to the Atheist forum and ask do they feel that they should be celebrating Christmas like the rest of us?

I'm not an Atheist. I'm a christian and I'm interested in christian views on this.

tommy2bad · 14-11-2014 12:42PM

Terrlock wrote: »

I'm not an Atheist. I'm a christian and I'm interested in christian views on this.

Yet you use quotations from the old testament i.e. Jewish, to support the argument that christians should not celebrate CHRISTmass because it's pagan?

Theirs a school of thought that taking pagan things and making them christian is only bringing to completion these things which foreshadow the incarnation but that might depend on your sensibilities.

Terrlock · 14-11-2014 12:53PM

tommy2bad wrote: »

Yet you use quotations from the old testament i.e. Jewish, to support the argument that christians should not celebrate CHRISTmass because it's pagan?

Theirs a school of thought that taking pagan things and making them christian is only bringing to completion these things which foreshadow the incarnation but that might depend on your sensibilities.

That's interesting could you elaborate on this school of thought.

LeinsterDub · 14-11-2014 12:55PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Well, I have to point out that Sunday is a pagan festival, coming to us from the extremely pagan Babylonian culture, which

How do you be extremely pagan? Isn't paganism an all or nothing deal?

Terrlock · 14-11-2014 01:03PM

tommy2bad wrote: »

Yet you use quotations from the old testament i.e. Jewish, to support the argument that christians should not celebrate CHRISTmass because it's pagan?

Why shouldn't a christian use the Old Testament? Do you view it as just for Jews?

Question for you, is the Old testament not for all of Israel, not just the Jews?

Tabnabs · 14-11-2014 01:23PM

Peregrinus wrote: »

It's worth pointing out that if the word "Easter" possibly has pagan roots, the word "God" definitely does; it comes to us from the Germanic languages, and originally referred to the norse/pagan gods.

Who in turn took it from the Proto-Indo-European word ghut- "that which is invoked". But yeah, they weren't christians either...

Terrlock · 14-11-2014 05:17PM

So can we at least establish Halloween and Easter are both of Pagan origin.

As such should Christians be celebrating these holidays?

Is there any harm in celebrating Halloween, Christmas and Easter as they are?

This scripture seems very similar to what a lot of Christians do every year in regards to putting up a Christmas tree.

Jer. 10:2-4 -Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

lazybones32 · 14-11-2014 08:26PM

Terrlock wrote: »

So can we at least establish Halloween and Easter are both of Pagan origin.

As such should Christians be celebrating these holidays?

Is there any harm in celebrating Halloween, Christmas and Easter as they are?

This scripture seems very similar to what a lot of Christians do every year in regards to putting up a Christmas tree.

Jer. 10:2-4 -Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. 3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. 4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

No-one is saying that Halloween and Easter aren't pagan holidays: Samhain is the time when the Celts believed the spirit world was closest to the physical world but having children dressing up as pirates or spongebob doesn't mean they are divining with spirits and worshiping idols. I haven't a proper understanding on what Easter was a celebration of (the return of Spring?) but the Christian celebration isn't about Nature...it's about Christ.

Festus · 14-11-2014 08:29PM

Terrlock wrote: »

So can we at least establish Halloween and Easter are both of Pagan origin.

No we cannot. All Hallows may coincide with harvest festivals but All Hallows has no pagan origins. The celebration of the Saints and Souls of the faithful departed is purely Christian in origin.
Easter follows the Jewish Passover as it cannot precede it and they are intimately linked but the last time I looked the Jews were not pagans. Again Easter is purely Christian as it is the celebration of Our Lords Resurrection.

Festus · 14-11-2014 08:30PM

lazybones32 wrote: »

No-one is saying that Halloween and Easter aren't pagan holidays:

I am

catallus · 14-11-2014 08:31PM

There are only so many days in the year. It is obvious that some Christian holidays will fall at the same time as other older celebratory days. This does not suggest any connection with them. Easter a pagan holiday? That's just offensive!

tommy2bad · 14-11-2014 09:56PM

Terrlock wrote: »

That's interesting could you elaborate on this school of thought.

It's a notion I think from CS Lewis so if you get the chance read some (make that all) of his books.

As to the Jewish origins of easter, thats not a controversial idea, the xian easter is a fulfilment of the Passover, the two are tied together like eggs and chickens. Yes Pascha coincides with the timing of a pagan festival but is not a variation of the pagan festival,it's a 100% xian festival. The name easter comes from the name of the month in the old english calendar when Pascha happened.
I just am pointing out that we are not Jews, Hebrews or Israelites, we are christians. Part of a tradition that starts with the hebrews but not confined by hebrew tradition.
We are the Easter people and Hallelujah is our song. Used to be my sig here one time.

Terrlock · 15-11-2014 12:47AM

tommy2bad wrote: »

It's a notion I think from CS Lewis so if you get the chance read some (make that all) of his books.

As to the Jewish origins of easter, thats not a controversial idea, the xian easter is a fulfilment of the Passover, the two are tied together like eggs and chickens. Yes Pascha coincides with the timing of a pagan festival but is not a variation of the pagan festival,it's a 100% xian festival. The name easter comes from the name of the month in the old english calendar when Pascha happened.
I just am pointing out that we are not Jews, Hebrews or Israelites, we are christians. Part of a tradition that starts with the hebrews but not confined by hebrew tradition.
We are the Easter people and Hallelujah is our song. Used to be my sig here one time.

Pascha is derived from the Hebrew word pesach as there is no original Greek word for Passover - it means passover not easter.

Passover was still celebrated in the New Testament after the death of Christ.

I don't see any issue with celebrating Passover as this is authorized by the scriptures, not just for the Jewish people but for all of Israel.

The Jewish people only consist of 2 of the tribes who came out of Egypt in Exodus, the other 10 were scattered throughout the nations of the earth.

So to say we are not Israelites, does not mean we are not descendant from them. And the Lords promise to Abraham were for his descendants.

Easter itself is of pagan origin, and is derived from Eastre, the goddess of Spring who goes all the way back to the Tower of Babel, she was the wife of Nimrod who was worshiped later as the God Baal and she was also known as the Queen of Heaven.

False religion came from this time period with sun and moon worship, along with false priests, astrology, demonic worship, human sacrifice...etc

There should be better ways of celebrating Christ resurrection then adopting pagan celebrations in remembrance of Christ.

PS. I will definitely have a read of C.S. Lewis

Should Christians be celebrating Pagan Holidays such as Christmas?

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