ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

Cantona's Collars · 12-11-2014 05:05PM

I agree with metered water charges

The mother called in,she had her IW pack all filled out & ready to post.For the umpteenth time I told her not to.She's the kind of person FG etc. love,pay up & be intimidated if they don't.The type of person who says "sure we have to 'cos the govt said so".
However,more & more of these formerly compliant folk are changing their tune as they realise that all that's happening is a huge scam,no provision of services or anything near what was promised just take,take,take.IW is the straw that broke the camels back....A tax too many.I took part in protests & a huge amount who marched were this demographic-not the so called "wasters" as Barely There et al refer to.These are the people who have worked hard all their lives,payed their way without question but are now sick to the teeth of the hand in our pockets attitude of this government.
Anyone who champions this government should sit down & have a long hard think about it.

Tony EH · 12-11-2014 05:08PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Satriale wrote: »

42% is the generally accepted figure. They were using the 49% figure with the CER to manipulate the costs and allowances to customers, a bit of creative accounting so to speak.
A bit like Endas attempt to bring this thing "off balance sheets" in the eyes of Europe by semi-privatising it.

Dodgy cnuts.

TBH, I'd wonder if the 42% estimation holds any water as well, so to speak.

12-11-2014 05:10PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

zerks wrote: »

The mother called in,she had her IW pack all filled out & ready to post.For the umpteenth time I told her not to.She's the kind of person FG etc. love,pay up & be intimidated if they don't.The type of person who says "sure we have to 'cos the govt said so".
However,more & more of these formerly compliant folk are changing their tune as they realise that all that's happening is a huge scam,no provision of services or anything near what was promised just take,take,take.IW is the straw that broke the camels back....A tax too many.I took part in protests & a huge amount who marched were this demographic-not the so called "wasters" as Barely There et al refer to.These are the people who have worked hard all their lives,payed their way without question but are now sick to the teeth of the hand in our pockets attitude of this government.
Anyone who champions this government should sit down & have a long hard think about it.

So instead of being intimidated by the Government, as you claim,she is actually being intimidate by her own family. Very nice.

Satriale · 12-11-2014 05:11PM

I would like Irish Water as a company to be restructured

Tony EH wrote: »

TBH, I'd wonder if the 42% estimation holds any water as well, so to speak.

Who knows, you couldnt believe anything the fcukers say anymore...

gladrags · 12-11-2014 05:16PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So instead of being intimidated by the Government, as you claim,she is actually being intimidate by her own family. Very nice.

That is very very low

VinLieger · 12-11-2014 05:19PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Tony EH wrote: »

TBH, I'd wonder if the 42% estimation holds any water as well, so to speak.

Yeah just continue with the conspiracy theories, years ago before IW was even considered the figure was being quoted as being in the worst situations as 40% this is not something being massaged or doctored it is FACT. In places now the figure is as high as 49% in others it is lower than 30% the AVERAGE is 42% and it is gonna keep going up if we do not do something about it.

Look how boil water notices have sky rocketed in recent years and the serious water situation that happened in Dublin a little over a year ago today and try to deny our infrastructure is on the brink of falling apart.

Tony EH · 12-11-2014 05:21PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

People can note, of course, that I've mentioned nothing about a "conspiracy". Nor have I "denied" anything about the state of our water infrastructure. In fact, I've acknowledged it's in a bad way in previous posts.

I've simply questioned the validity of the percentage figure.

:rolleyes:

Don't let that stop your old maid reaction though.

Red Pepper · 12-11-2014 05:25PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Deleted User wrote: »

So instead of being intimidated by the Government, as you claim,she is actually being intimidate by her own family. Very nice.

That's not what I got from that at all. He helped her open her eyes.

Wait until he tells her there is no God!

Red Pepper · 12-11-2014 05:26PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Barely There wrote: »

What, like you just did, cherry-picking the parts of my post it suited you to come up with a smart-arse reply to while conveniently ignoring the rest of it?

:D:D:D:D

Pot and kettle...but good to have you back!

end of the road · 12-11-2014 05:28PM

Barely There wrote: »

Just come out and admit you want others to pay for your water.
I'd honestly have more respect for you

the same nonsense from you as per. if someone dares to tell the real truth about your belovid irish water, its because "shur they don't want to pay for water" and not because its most likely what will happen knowing this country and its history.
just come out and admit your belovid irish water is a shambles, and that it is another jobs for the boys club run by not fit for purpose wasters who have failed time and time again in their previous work, all at the tax payers expence, and the water charges are nothing to do with water but to be a form of revenue collection and nothing else. we'd honestly all have respect for you if you did.

Barely There wrote: »

Long sighted and for the benefit of society in general actually.

short sighted and for the benefit of your belovid irish water and government cronies actually.

Barely There wrote: »

But, to be honest, it's apparent you don't have any solutions and are just here to have a good old moan about stuff, and frankly, I can't be arsed dealing with that.

by then. its obvious you have contempt for those who can't afford to pay this gambling debt tax which will also keep a few failed wasters in a job when they ****ed up in their previous work time and time again, so maybe not bothering with this thread is a good option for you.

VinLieger · 12-11-2014 05:30PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Tony EH wrote: »

People can note, of course, that I've mentioned nothing about a "conspiracy". Nor have I "denied" anything about the state of our water infrastructure. In fact, I've acknowledged it's in a bad way in previous posts.

I've simply questioned the validity of the percentage figure.

:rolleyes:

Don't let that stop your old maid reaction though.

No you just questioned it with a vague throwaway statement and absolutely no evidence to back it up whatsoever simply because its convenient to do so for your sides argument of mistrusting everything the evil corrupt politicians say.

The 42% figure also doesn't actually come from IW it comes from the people you are arguing to keep in control of our water infrastructure so why would you wish so fervently to keep them in control of our water if you don't trust what they say?

end of the road · 12-11-2014 05:32PM

Barely There wrote: »

What, like you just did, cherry-picking the parts of my post it suited you to come up with a smart-arse reply to while conveniently ignoring the rest of it?

thats what you've been doing, along with showing contempt for those who can't afford this new charge. tony on the other hand has spoken the truth as per and put up very good arguments. something you could never do

end of the road · 12-11-2014 05:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So instead of being intimidated by the Government, as you claim,she is actually being intimidate by her own family. Very nice.

thats a disgusting accusation. take it back

12-11-2014 05:42PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

end of the road wrote: »

thats a disgusting accusation. take it back

Ok. She's not being intimidated by the Government.

listermint · 12-11-2014 05:44PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok. She's not being intimidated by the Government.

Very Sad. If thats the level of posting you have reduced yourself to.

Slagging off a poster for informing his mother of facts rather than baseless intimidation the likes of your headmaster Enda slings around 4% was it ??

Very Sad

end of the road · 12-11-2014 05:57PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok. She's not being intimidated by her family

good. thats more like it

VinLieger · 12-11-2014 06:03PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

end of the road wrote: »

good. thats more like it

Talking about intimidation :P

I kid I kid......

Tony EH · 12-11-2014 06:27PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

VinLieger wrote: »

No you just questioned it with a vague throwaway statement and absolutely no evidence to back it up whatsoever simply because its convenient to do so for your sides argument of mistrusting everything the evil corrupt politicians say.

The 42% figure also doesn't actually come from IW it comes from the people you are arguing to keep in control of our water infrastructure so why would you wish so fervently to keep them in control of our water if you don't trust what they say?

Yeh, whatever.

I don't know where the 40% percentage comes from, or who it was that was tasked to find it out.

The question STILL stands however.

Is it reliable?

It's a simple question. I'm sure there's a simple answer.

One thing is for sure, we can all do without the old maidish attitudes and bollocks accusations of "conspiracy". :pac:

Pedro K · 12-11-2014 06:48PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Barely There wrote: »

People like me pulled this Country out of recession.

Most of the bitch-monkeys on here couldn't pull their fingers out of their arses.

I think I should get a parachute, because I'm great. In fact, I think I should get both parachutes, in case one doesn't work!

VinLieger · 12-11-2014 06:52PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Tony EH wrote: »

Yeh, whatever.

I don't know where the 40% percentage comes from, or who it was that was tasked to find it out.

The question STILL stands however.

Is it reliable?

It's a simple question. I'm sure there's a simple answer.

One thing is for sure, we can all do without the old maidish attitudes and bollocks accusations of "conspiracy". :pac:

Well what would you call your questioning of "is it reliable?" If its deemed to not be reliable then there's a conspiracy to inflate the number for the advantage of one group over another however that is without proof still a theory, hence - conspiracy theory

VinLieger · 12-11-2014 06:58PM

I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth

Tony EH wrote: »

I don't know where the 40% percentage comes from, or who it was that was tasked to find it out.

The question STILL stands however.

Is it reliable?

Ill add this from 2011

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/half-of-water-lost-through-leaky-pipes-despite-500m-upgrades-26709944.html

from the article wrote:

A major report into services provided by local authorities shows 44.5pc of all water produced is "unaccounted for" because of leaks, unauthorised usage and metering errors.

The 171-page report -- seen by the Irish Independent -- is produced by the Local Government Management Services Board.

There facts and source for you from before IW and anyone else with a vested interest in charges would have been looking to inflate the figures or alter them.

Ace2007 · 12-11-2014 07:14PM

shinzon wrote: »

And there you go again but anyways the infrastructure needs to be fixed first before any metering system should even be considered, its simple logic, you wouldn't try and fly an aeroplane without first checking if the engines worked so why should the pipes be any different.

So for the last x amount of years you were happy enough for businesses up and down the country having meters installed, but only when the meter comes to your door do you then stand up and give out about it.

Like most things in this country, unless the issue affects people themselves they don't care about it.

Out of every issue that people in this country could protest about - Water is probably one of the least important. People will pay more for property tax each year than they will for water for example. People pay more for a decent health care system now than before (government removed relief on private healthcare 2 budgets ago) - little or no protests about these issues.

Also, I love the way you use the plane as if that has any logic, if a plane had no engine, then you wouldn't fly it, but pipes in Ireland have been leaking for years - but that hasn't stopped anyone from using the water. So your comparison doesn't work.

Red Pepper · 12-11-2014 07:42PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Ace2007 wrote: »

So for the last x amount of years you were happy enough for businesses up and down the country having meters installed, but only when the meter comes to your door do you then stand up and give out about it.

Like most things in this country, unless the issue affects people themselves they don't care about it.

Out of every issue that people in this country could protest about - Water is probably one of the least important. People will pay more for property tax each year than they will for water for example. People pay more for a decent health care system now than before (government removed relief on private healthcare 2 budgets ago) - little or no protests about these issues.

Also, I love the way you use the plane as if that has any logic, if a plane had no engine, then you wouldn't fly it, but pipes in Ireland have been leaking for years - but that hasn't stopped anyone from using the water. So your comparison doesn't work.

You guys clearly aren't getting it. As a result you are going around in ever increasing waffley circles.

2 words will explain the protests...concentrate....

Tipping & Point

shinzon · 12-11-2014 07:44PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Ace2007 wrote: »

Also, I love the way you use the plane as if that has any logic, if a plane had no engine, then you wouldn't fly it, but pipes in Ireland have been leaking for years - but that hasn't stopped anyone from using the water. So your comparison doesn't work.

yup way to ignore what I said further down that post only quote what ye want to quote as everyone here does.

Let me ask you a question will you be accepting the concessions that government will be rolling out in order to appease us dissidents or will you be out protesting to get the original rates reinstated or write to IW asking to have those concessions removed I don't think so.

And your right as with everything else its how it effects the individual and I have a sneaking suspicion you and your pro water rate friends will remain extremely quiet if the water rates are abolished why its quite simple its not about what peoples useage is its not about a world class infrastructure or any of the other arguments in the 2 threads its simply down to one thing money and those who have it and those that don't and those who think they have a right to talk down to people in difficulty cause there crippled with taxes and have no more money to hand over to a bloated quango who is no more going to fix the pipes then the man in the moon

And also property tax is a completely lame argument in all honesty as you well know that's a Tax and revenue will collect it irregardless if you protest or don't pay itll simply be deducted by whatever financial means you have.

Shin

twowheelsgood · 12-11-2014 07:55PM

Irish Steve wrote: »

I've made a number of suggestions throughout this thread that I think would lead Ireland to a better place, but I would be the first to admit that they are over a much wider spectrum than just Irish Water.

Yes you have. But what I asked was for realistic outcomes from the protests.

Your idea of asking the IMF back in to sort out problems in the public sector may (or may not!) be a good idea. But there is absolutely no chance that that will happen - no government will invite in the IMF if they have any choice.

And I cannot see how any of your ideas, however good they are, are likely to be a consequence of a successful protest. It would be a nice, if naive notion, that if IW is dismantled that the current, or more probably their successors, will redo it properly.

Far more likely that metered water will become a toxic topic that no government will want to touch anytime soon. And our crumbling water infrastructure will disintegrate even further.

A successful (or as successful as is now possible) start up for IW is the best, or if you prefer, least worst thing we can hope for. Any realistic expectation of the shape of government in the nest few years (unstable and left leaning) and an even basic understanding of how politicians think and operate (as opposed to how you would like them to) would lead to this conclusion.

Ace2007 · 12-11-2014 07:55PM

shinzon wrote: »

yup way to ignore what I said further down that post only quote what ye want to quote as everyone here does.

Let me ask you a question will you be accepting the concessions that government will be rolling out in order to appease us dissidents or will you be out protesting to get the original rates reinstated or write to IW asking to have those concessions removed I don't think so.

And your right as with everything else its how it effects the individual and I have a sneaking suspicion you and your pro water rate friends will remain extremely quiet if the water rates are abolished why its quite simple its not about what peoples useage is its not about a world class infrastructure or any of the other arguments in the 2 threads its simply down to one thing money and those who have it and those that don't and those who think they have a right to talk down to people in difficulty cause there crippled with taxes and have no more money to hand over to a bloated quango who is no more going to fix the pipes then the man in the moon

Shin

I wonder will you and all the rest be still protesting this time next year when the water chargers are here and people are paying them, I can guarantee you that like every thing else in this country, people will slowly forget about the charges and accept what the government give them. i.e. they protest saying xyz, they get abc and are happy.

I'll pay whatever bill comes through the door.

But a question i've asked before many a time - which posters choose to ignore, say water charges remain, and election in the morning - who you going to vote for - majority of independents interviewed support the idea of people paying something towards water, Sinn Fein have said they believe that it should be paid for.

Would you be happy for the tax in this country to rise by 2/3% in order to pay for it? Perhaps they would increase the lower rate of tax.

Ireland is a broke country - Money needs to come from somewhere, have i ever said that those who cannot pay should? allowance can be made just like they are made for heating/gas.

I've said before the entity that is irish Water shouldn't have been set up the way it was - but of course people choose to ignore me saying that and just assume that because i think people should pay for water, that i then also am pro Irish water.

How much would it cost to fix the pipes and all the leaks - put a figure on it - and then tell me where you are going to get this figure from in order to fix the problems?

Barely There · 12-11-2014 08:01PM

Red Pepper wrote: »

Tipping & Point

Tipping point me bollox.

Let someone else pay for my water more like.

Red Pepper · 12-11-2014 08:10PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Barely There wrote: »

Tipping point me bollox.

Let someone else pay for my water more like.

Now now Barely, take it easy on the language. Remember the mauling you got before.

PS. You know I am right.

12-11-2014 08:10PM

Barely There wrote: »

Well let her **** off to another country then and see how she gets on.

We could do without the nauseating self-pity of these whingers.

the level of antipathy, animosity and the complete lack of compassion by some recent posts here is shocking (Barely There and Seamus). There was nothing nauseating and self pitying about Donna Harnetts letter. It was exceptionally articulate and well written. Its hard not to empathise with her.

She probably bought a house back when houses prices were at an all time high. That took 2 full time salaries to repay the mortgage. All young couples were told they had to get on the property ladder as prices would keep rising. There was no choice if they wanted to provide their kids with a home to grow up in. Thats hardly an unusual aspiration - its what everyone wants for their kids. Its called life.
The market crashed, negative equity yet still paying a huge mortgage, loans and bills to pay, creche fees rising , no chance of taking part time work, nothing left at the end of each week. Why wouldn't she feel is this it? Kids are being reared in a creche and they have nothing to show for their lives.

And you can knock me all you like/ say what you want to me but I don't care. Nothing can hurt me anymore.
I am 53 - well educated and worked in banking years ago. Lost that job, no bank pension, lost my house, lost a child to cancer, lost my marriage. I took tons of low paid jobs rather than sign on.
I reared my other 2 kids alone and put them through college. Last year they both emigrated - neither of them wanted to but they needed jobs. I am now alone. One year ago I went on the dole and now work in a CE Scheme . This is not "whinging" - this is fact!
It's the first time in my life I received Social welfare. Every day in work I deal with homeless people, bankrupt people, suicides, mental health issues, abuse, emigration etc. So I kinda know what I'm talking about. I'm thankful I have a job. I've lived both lives. I see people at breaking point, in tears, unbearable stress levels, suicidal. I'm glad I can help, listen and advise. The most important thing in life are your health, your kids, family & friends, treating people with compassion and respect .

Dont judge people because you really dont know their lives. Unless you have walked that walk you're not qualified to talk that talk! I cant understand the scathing comments and bitterness.

(I was contributing to this thread as even though I agree with paying for water I dont agree with Irish Water. However some of the animosity and downright ignorant posts here make me just want to walk away from the whole topic now. Would people be so brave to say some of these comments to a persons face ?)

Red Pepper · 12-11-2014 08:15PM

I do not want to pay for water in any way

Ace2007 wrote: »

How much would it cost to fix the pipes and all the leaks - put a figure on it - and then tell me where you are going to get this figure from in order to fix the problems?

Maybe stop hiring useless people on over €100,000 for no reason e.g. this guy...

Hubert Kearns was Sligo County Manager for 17 years and when he retired in 2013 he received a lump sum of €270,000 and a pension of €68,000 per year. His time as Sligo manager was controversial and he left behind a County debt of €80 million. "It's not the end of the world, nobody died," he said about the council's financial woes. At one stage he refused to attend council meetings in a dispute with an independent Councillor and spent more than €50,000 council money hiring HR consultant Declan Naughton to monitor meetings. Asked to comment on reports that his own pay as Sligo Manager, at €136,000, was €30,000 more than that of the Spanish prime minister, Mr Kearns said his salary was fixed by Government. “I am surprised that the Spanish prime minister earns so little.”

**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP