Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

1…3637394142…132

Comments

  • #1142
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    listermint wrote: »
    We have quite literally pissed hundreds of millions against a wall of an organisation that was ... poorly implemented.
    No argument here.
    Its plain as day if this was a real company without the tax payer money holding it up that it would have folded already.
    Considering they haven't even started trading yet, that's a pretty nonsensical statement to make.
    And a more stream lined smaller central decision and planning entity should have been the option No1. with funds issued and direction issued to existing local authorities.
    Where does the funding come from? Who is the central entity answerable to, and who do the councils answer to?
    You cannot legitimately advocate IW and not be advocating bad business practice
    Well of course you can. You can advocate the existence of IW in principle. The mistakes made in setting it up are separate to that.
    Do you think it would be cheaper now to scrap IW and move to your model?


  • #1143
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    seamus wrote: »
    No argument here.

    Considering they haven't even started trading yet, that's a pretty nonsensical statement to make.

    Where does the funding come from? Who is the central entity answerable to, and who do the councils answer to?

    Well of course you can. You can advocate the existence of IW in principle. The mistakes made in setting it up are separate to that.
    Do you think it would be cheaper now to scrap IW and move to your model?

    I would start by getting rid of the 2000 odd unnecessary staff, I would clear out middle upper management to industry norms. Seems a lot of cooks in that place.


  • #1144
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,497 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Barely There wrote: »
    Ah yes.

    Amazing the amount of posters who aren't really against the idea of water charges

    whats amazing about it. some aren't against the idea of paying for water. however they are against the shambolic way in which the charges and the company to look after the infrastructure has been implemented with people who have failed again and again at the tax payers expence being put in charge of it, all at the tax payers expence.
    Barely There wrote: »
    but

    I don't like IW
    They want my PPS number
    It might be privatised in future

    whats the issue. you obviously love IW. tell us whats likeable about a company which has been a shambles from the get go? maybe people having looked at the UK for example don't wish to pay private companies for their water as they can see how it has turned out, with prices rising to ridiculously high levels, and for some un-payible levels. with not enough to little investment. i don't blame people for not wanting this shambles to have their PPS number.

    but no doubt all you will do is continue to show contempt and insult people because you have nothing else.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1145
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I would start by getting rid of the 2000 odd unnecessary staff, I would clear out middle upper management to industry norms. Seems a lot of cooks in that place.

    Move them back into the LA's?

    Wow, you've just saved us millions in one fell swoop.

    Oh wait.........


  • #1146
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    I would start by getting rid of the 2000 odd unnecessary staff, I would clear out middle upper management to industry norms. Seems a lot of cooks in that place.
    Can they though? You can't just fire people. Are there really 2,000 people sat around twiddling their thumbs? Over time, as the whole operation consolidates I would expect staff numbers to drop.
    If you think about it, those 2,000 people are former council staff. If they hadn't hired them into IW, those people would still be chair warmers in council offices for the rest of their careers.
    Now as staff of IW, they can be shed when their services are no longer required.

    This stuff was actually flagged really early on, like last year - that IW would be bloated as it took on council staff, but in the medium-term would shed them - I find it funny that people are only now complaining about it if they think it's such a big deal.


  • Advertisement
  • #1147
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Barely There wrote: »
    Move them back into the LA's?

    Wow, you've just saved us millions in one fell swoop.

    Oh wait.........

    Ah yes I forgot in the real world when a company has no work for you or no need they keep you on regardless and pay you.


  • #1148
    Tinkersbell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    shinzon wrote: »
    The view from the Ivory tower must be breathtaking, I see weve gone back to the protestors are scrounging unemployed scummers argument again which simply isn't true.

    Shin

    And Garth Brooks fans too don't forget!;)


  • #1149
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,359 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    seamus wrote: »
    No argument here.

    Considering they haven't even started trading yet, that's a pretty nonsensical statement to make.

    Where does the funding come from? Who is the central entity answerable to, and who do the councils answer to?

    Well of course you can. You can advocate the existence of IW in principle. The mistakes made in setting it up are separate to that.
    Do you think it would be cheaper now to scrap IW and move to your model?

    Yes I do. I don't believe it is fit for purpose and I would sure as fire be examining the consultation advice that was received and contracts for same.


  • #1150
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    listermint wrote: »
    Yes I do. I don't believe it is fit for purpose and I would sure as fire be examining the consultation advice that was received and contracts for same.

    Was a lot of it ignored in relation to staffing and cost compared to like in other parts of the EU.


  • #1151
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,359 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    seamus wrote: »
    Can they though? You can't just fire people. Are there really 2,000 people sat around twiddling their thumbs? Over time, as the whole operation consolidates I would expect staff numbers to drop.
    If you think about it, those 2,000 people are former council staff. If they hadn't hired them into IW, those people would still be chair warmers in council offices for the rest of their careers.
    Now as staff of IW, they can be shed when their services are no longer required.

    This stuff was actually flagged really early on, like last year - that IW would be bloated as it took on council staff, but in the medium-term would shed them - I find it funny that people are only now complaining about it if they think it's such a big deal.

    They are permanent for 12 years there will be no natural shedding.


  • Advertisement
  • #1152
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Tinkersbell wrote: »
    And Garth Brooks fans too don't forget!;)

    Nah they just have incredibly bad taste in music :D

    Shin


  • #1153
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,029 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Knight who says Meh wrote: »
    And yet what the pro IW lot desperately keep trying to convey is the barely present (in this thread) objection to paying for water at all.
    Im not against it in principle. i cannot afford it as of now but if I werent being taken for a ride by the Irish Class System I may become more inclined to dig deeper..not sure to where but thats for another day.

    The right2water champagine which claims thousands are protesting at their marches clearly state water should be free

    So when they organise marches and people turn up they are perceived as support the right2water viewpoint.


  • #1154
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,029 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Ah yes I forgot in the real world when a company has no work for you or no need they keep you on regardless and pay you.

    Believe or not there are companies out there that have let people go and pay them an income between now and when they officially retire.


  • #1155
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,461 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Believe or not there are companies out there that have let people go and pay them an income between now and when they officially retire.

    over 2000 ?


  • #1156
    Stargate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Believe or not there are companies out there that have let people go and pay them an income between now and when they officially retire.

    Nobody disagrees with that .

    It gets funnier by the day the way some posters seem to vigorously defend this disgusting cronyism .Given many an example ...

    "Mr Hubert Kearns (ex sligo county manager ) when he retired in 2013 got a whopping €270,000 and a pension of €68,000 per year. Is now a senior manager @IW being paid a high salary of over €100,000.

    Mr. David O'Connor (ex fingal county manager)
    Retired in November 2013 with a €296,082.00 lump sum and a yearly pension of €73,394.00.

    Irish Water's finest and you have absolutely no problem with that ?


  • #1157
    Badger2009
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭Badger2009


    shinzon wrote: »
    Way to ignore the obvious 3 things

    1) The man told him he didn't want a meter was told to **** off

    2) the man told him he did not get the pack was told to **** right off

    and

    3) If the guards had of been there they would have arrested the man instead of the worker whose abusing him

    what more context do you need a break down scene by scene of the video looking for any edits or cuts, perhaps what the man was doing from the time he got up in the morning till the time he clicked record on the phone

    christ almighty like

    Shin

    I have to laugh at this, sorry.

    That video looks a bit staged to me.

    1. The 'worker's' face is never shown. In all the other protest videos as soon as anyone speaks at all the camera is in their face trying to 'expose' them. Why in this video would the protestors just let this individual away with speaking like that?

    2. The works seem to be set up in the road. IW only work in the footpaths so there is no reason for it to be set up like that.

    3. The 'worker' has no tools of any description unless he is about to dig a hole with an imaginary shovel....

    4. There is zero context other than 'worker' being heard a couple times telling person to F Off.

    I'm very dubious about this one....could be wrong though.


  • #1158
    Tinkersbell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭Tinkersbell


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Ace2007 wrote: »
    The right2water champagine which claims thousands are protesting at their marches clearly state water should be free

    So when they organise marches and people turn up they are perceived as support the right2water viewpoint.

    Water isn't free.
    We pay for it through our taxes.
    Who do you think has been paying for it for decades now?
    How come you pro water tax lads can't seem to understand that?
    It's not that difficult to understand, is it?


  • #1159
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,029 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    Stargate wrote: »
    Nobody disagrees with that .

    It gets funnier by the day the way some posters seem to vigorously defend this disgusting cronyism .Given many an example ...

    "Mr Hubert Kearns (ex sligo county manager ) when he retired in 2013 got a whopping €270,000 and a pension of €68,000 per year. Is now a senior manager @IW being paid a high salary of over €100,000.

    Mr. David O'Connor (ex fingal county manager)
    Retired in November 2013 with a €296,082.00 lump sum and a yearly pension of €73,394.00.

    Irish Water's finest and you have absolutely no problem with that ?

    Sounds like your jealous tbh - anyone let go or take early retirement are entitled to lump sums depending on service etc.

    People don't care about pensions - look at aer lingus - members pretty much screwed and hardly made the news - they just accepted the proposals and got on with their lives


  • #1160
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Badger2009 wrote: »
    I have to laugh at this, sorry.

    That video looks a bit staged to me.

    1. The 'worker's' face is never shown. In all the other protest videos as soon as anyone speaks at all the camera is in their face trying to 'expose' them. Why in this video would the protestors just let this individual away with speaking like that?

    2. The works seem to be set up in the road. IW only work in the footpaths so there is no reason for it to be set up like that.

    3. The 'worker' has no tools of any description unless he is about to dig a hole with an imaginary shovel....

    4. There is zero context other than 'worker' being heard a couple times telling person to F Off.

    I'm very dubious about this one....could be wrong though.

    I'm anti "Irish water" and even I can see it is staged.


  • #1161
    listermint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,359 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Sounds like your jealous tbh - anyone let go or take early retirement are entitled to lump sums depending on service etc.

    People don't care about pensions - look at aer lingus - members pretty much screwed and hardly made the news - they just accepted the proposals and got on with their lives


    Your a gas man,

    How is that we have to wait till what is it 74 for pension ? and i can officially retire at 50 odd and draw a pension from a county manage job a pension that is ring fenced and way above average wage. And then float of into another semistate to get more crazy money.

    Thats not jealously ya spaz, Thats plain and simple misappropriation of my very important tax money.

    I am not here to subsidise that nonsense. Pensions shouldnt be handed out that early or by choice. Utter madness.


  • Advertisement
  • #1162
    Stargate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Sounds like your jealous tbh - anyone let go or take early retirement are entitled to lump sums depending on service etc.

    People don't care about pensions - look at aer lingus - members pretty much screwed and hardly made the news - they just accepted the proposals and got on with their lives

    That the best you can do ? LoL :rolleyes: x2


  • #1163
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Sounds like your jealous tbh - anyone let go or take early retirement are entitled to lump sums depending on service etc.

    People don't care about pensions - look at aer lingus - members pretty much screwed and hardly made the news - they just accepted the proposals and got on with their lives

    That is a complete and utter cop-out of an answer. But at least you tried to answer the question unlike the blinkered ones.

    Why don't you just admit that you have no problem with blatant cronyism?


  • #1164
    Red Pepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭Red Pepper


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Nobody disagrees with that .

    It gets funnier by the day the way some posters seem to vigorously defend this disgusting cronyism .Given many an example ...

    "Mr Hubert Kearns (ex sligo county manager ) when he retired in 2013 got a whopping €270,000 and a pension of €68,000 per year. Is now a senior manager @IW being paid a high salary of over €100,000.

    Mr. David O'Connor (ex fingal county manager)
    Retired in November 2013 with a €296,082.00 lump sum and a yearly pension of €73,394.00.

    Irish Water's finest and you have absolutely no problem with that ?
    Ace2007 wrote: »
    Sounds like your jealous tbh - anyone let go or take early retirement are entitled to lump sums depending on service etc.

    People don't care about pensions - look at aer lingus - members pretty much screwed and hardly made the news - they just accepted the proposals and got on with their lives

    Pathetic response. Some of you folks are really letting yourselves down. Lets try a little honesty.


  • #1165
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    mikom wrote: »
    I'm anti "Irish water" and even I can see it is staged.

    well all I can say is there must be a lot of steven spielbergs out there to create such a staged scene as that

    It amazes me that people will only see what they want to see in these videos although maybe not tbh and the question asked earlier still needs answering why is it when an Irish Water worker telling someone to **** off its staged yet when the opposite is done there dissident unemployed scummers

    Shin


  • #1166
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Ah yes I forgot in the real world when a company has no work for you or no need they keep you on regardless and pay you.

    Arf.

    Half your fellow protestors buddies are of the 'unionised, left-wing, jobs-for-life boyos.

    Especially the Tayto dude, who amusingly thanked your post suggesting we sack them all - couldn't make it up.


  • #1167
    ROCKMAN
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,246 ✭✭✭ROCKMAN


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    shinzon wrote: »
    well all I can say is there must be a lot of steven spielbergs out there to create such a staged scene as that

    It amazes me that people will only see what they want to see in these videos although maybe not tbh and the question asked earlier still needs answering why is it when an Irish Water worker telling someone to **** off its staged yet when the opposite is done there dissident unemployed scummers

    Shin

    I'm sorry ,but even as someone who been classed as a dissident unemployed scummer ,I just don't believe that video for one second ,Its staged and doesn't help at all. IMHO.


  • #1168
    Creative Juices
    Closed Accounts Posts: 336 ✭✭Creative Juices


    From Fine Gael's New Politics document...

    The fundamental goal of Fine Gael’s New Politics is to build a New Republic where the
    peoples’ concerns are placed at the centre of government. In a Republic, the people are
    supposed to be supreme. Judged by that simple standard, Ireland today is a Republic in name
    only. The expressions “Golden Circle”, “Crony Government” and “Cosy Capitalism” all
    describe the same thing: The abduction of our Republic by both public and private sector
    vested interests, aided and abetted by the present Government.

    Incidentally they pulled their New politics document from the FG website, I wonder why.


  • #1169
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    shinzon wrote: »
    the question asked earlier still needs answering why is it when an Irish Water worker telling someone to **** off its staged yet when the opposite is done there dissident unemployed scummers

    I'll take this one.

    Because one is patently staged and the other is a real video showing protestors acting like scumbags?

    What do I win??


  • #1170
    shinzon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    ROCKMAN wrote: »
    I'm sorry ,but even as someone who been classed as a dissident unemployed scummer ,I just don't believe that video for one second ,Its staged and doesn't help at all. IMHO.

    Each to there own opinion tired of trying to justify the video believe what you will.

    Shin


  • Advertisement
  • #1171
    Highflyer13
    Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Highflyer13


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Creative Juices wrote: »
    From Fine Gael's New Politics document...

    The fundamental goal of Fine Gael’s New Politics is to build a New Republic where the
    peoples’ concerns are placed at the centre of government. In a Republic, the people are
    supposed to be supreme. Judged by that simple standard, Ireland today is a Republic in name
    only. The expressions “Golden Circle”, “Crony Government” and “Cosy Capitalism” all
    describe the same thing: The abduction of our Republic by both public and private sector
    vested interests, aided and abetted by the present Government.

    Incidentally they pulled their New politics document from the FG website, I wonder why.

    Sure a noble(questionable) Mayoman once proclaimed when quizzed on broken promises 'Isn't that what you do to win an election.'


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement