Two minute silence at 11am

cloud493 · 11-11-2014 01:42PM

The poppy is a symbol of those who gave those lives, regardless of the cause. Whether other people have hijacked the symbol for whatever reason doesn't relate to me, far as I'm concerned.

teddy_303 · 11-11-2014 01:43PM

OSI wrote: »

"Goebbels, I need a new car, the bank won't give me a loan, round up a few jews and stick them in an oven for me." - Hitler, 1939

http://youtu.be/e2_oVexQk7I

AudreyHepburn · 11-11-2014 01:44PM

topper75 wrote: »

I don't mean to be contradictory towards the general sentiments in your post but your grammar wasn't the best if I may say so and implied something passive about their deaths. That's what I wanted to refute. People sent them to their deaths. Actively.

Do you not like people asking why generally, or just in relation to this issue?

I am. You are aware it was not applicable in Ireland, yes?

I never said nor implied anything of the sort , which I think you know or would if you had actually read what I said, and I don't appreciate the tone of the above statement.

topper75 · 11-11-2014 01:45PM

OSI wrote: »

And where does AudreyHepburn say their post was only applicable to the war dead of Ireland?

They didn't - but it we are all in Ireland are we not? and therefore looking at this remembrance from an Irish perspective?

AudreyHepburn · 11-11-2014 01:47PM

topper75 wrote: »

They didn't - but it we are all in Ireland are we not? and therefore looking at this remembrance from an Irish perspective?

I would appreciate if you didn't read things into my words that are not there.

Obviously yes I think first of the Irish that lost their lives, but I don't only think of them. I think of all servicemen, and women, who died. But in case what does it matter who I personally want to remember?

topper75 · 11-11-2014 01:48PM

cloud493 wrote: »

The poppy is a symbol of those who gave those lives, regardless of the cause. Whether other people have hijacked the symbol for whatever reason doesn't relate to me, far as I'm concerned.

A bit disingenuous. AFAIK your money goes to the Royal British Legion.

topper75 · 11-11-2014 01:52PM

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I would appreciate if you didn't read things into my words that are not there.

Obviously yes I think first of the Irish that lost their lives, but I don't only think of them. I think of all servicemen, and women, who died were sent to their deaths.

Maybe that wasn't there. But it should have been.

FTA69 · 11-11-2014 01:54PM

cloud493 wrote: »

The poppy is a symbol of those who gave those lives, regardless of the cause. Whether other people have hijacked the symbol for whatever reason doesn't relate to me, far as I'm concerned.

The poppy appeal was invented by the British Legion. It is concerned with advocating support for the Crown Forces, both past and present, regardless of what context they served in.

About the Poppy Appeal

In the year that marks the centenary of the start of one of the costliest conflicts in our history, The Royal British Legion is encouraging everyone to support the Poppy Appeal for the memory of the fallen and the future of the living.

The Legion created the Poppy Appeal to help those returning from the First World War. A century on from the start of that conflict, we're still helping today's Armed Forces families in much the same way, whether coping with bereavement, living with disability, or finding employment.

The poppy is a powerful symbol. It is worn to commemorate the sacrifices of our Armed Forces and to show support to those still serving today and their loved ones.

Money raised through the Poppy Appeal goes directly to our welfare work providing through life care to anyone who is currently serving in the British Armed Forces, who has previously served, and their families.

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/poppy-appeal

Tokyo · 11-11-2014 01:54PM

topper75 wrote: »

Do you not like people asking why generally, or just in relation to this issue?

Do you always pick and choose just the parts of a statement that suit your argument, rather than the statement as a whole? I clearly said that "There's another 1438 minutes left in the day for those questions, surely?"

I think that regardless of the reasoning behind their deaths, servicemen and women are entitled to a couple of minutes silence in remembrance of their deaths, without trying to politicise it.

AudreyHepburn · 11-11-2014 01:55PM

topper75 wrote: »

Maybe that wasn't there. But it should have been.

Stop being pedantic will you.

Anyone with half a brain will know what I meant.

Packrat · 11-11-2014 01:59PM

What's the minute's silence for? I genuinely didn't know until I read the thread.

What I've learned: Some clowns who watch too much British TV and aren't really aware that they live and come from a different country have bought into the "our boys abroad Fighting For freedom" bullcrap think it should be observed here.

Why don't ye put it on your Facebook status instead, - that's about the level of the intellectual thought it deserves.

Also, - come back and let us know how you get on.

FTA69 · 11-11-2014 02:11PM

OSI wrote: »

I wasn't aware that the British Legion had sole manufacture and distribution, and royalty rights on poppies. Considering their use was inspired by a Canadian poem, and first used by the American legion, your insistence at tying their use to the glorification of the actions of the British armed forces is a stretch at best.

A stretch? The ones sold in Ireland are flogged by the British Legion. The clip-on plastic ones commonly used were designed and are now sold by the British Legion. The only stretch here is you pretending that the British Legion is a minor actor in the poppyfest we see every year in Britain and Ireland.

Packrat · 11-11-2014 02:16PM

OSI wrote: »

Didn't say they were. I said the poppy as a symbol doesn't solely exist to glorify the exploits of the British armed forces. Does wearing an easter lily mean I think the Omagh bombing was justified?

Why do you ask? Do you wear an easter lily?

Ficheall · 11-11-2014 02:21PM

I went to a gig by the Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain (who are awesome) on Sunday. Since it was Remembrance Sunday they were commissioned to do a gig based on war songs etc. It was crap. So that's my reason for being bothered by the "remembrance/poppy" thing.
Also, youtube keeps popping up the ad for the "official" song supporting the royal british legion which is Joss Stone butchering The Green Fields of France. That's annoying too.

A friend of mine was skydiving on Sunday, and he said the plane he was on actually went and landed in between jumps to observe the two minutes' silence and then went back up. Seemed a bit over the top to me.

RobertKK · 11-11-2014 02:25PM

No.

Most of these commemorations have more to do with glorifying the army of whatever country than remembering dead people.

The military is often promoted by war mongering countries as such - put on an army uniform and you are an automatic 'hero'.

So no I did not stop, my view on WW1 is it was a most stupid war, there was no need for Britain and us to be involved in it and all we got was dead people from the stupidity of people who wouldn't themselves be seen dead on a battle field.

The subsequent stupidity of WW1 and how Germany was humiliated with the treaty of Versailles led to the rise of Hitler and another round of devastation in the world.

Rather than remembering the dead, it is used as a promotion for the military with nothing about the stupidity of it all.

Earl Turner · 11-11-2014 02:31PM

topper75 wrote: »

They didn't die by accident. Let's not paint this war as something that befell them. They were sent out to die by born-again bastards whose collective egos had run amok.

If there is a meaningful legacy - it is that we must question authority.

Question it always.

Question it at every turn.

Complete over simplification. People fought for different motivations. In Ireland men fought fought for economic reasons, for Home Rule and a genuine desire to protect Ireland. Our image of the war has become distorted due to the prominence of the war poets within the cultural narrative.

Pwindedd · 11-11-2014 02:32PM

Yes I did observe the 2 minute silence. I though about the futility of war and the loss of life and how lucky I am to live in a time when any personal participation in war is entirely optional.

See you all same time next year for the now traditional poppy re-hash thread.

Packrat · 11-11-2014 02:32PM

OSI wrote: »

Well some people wear the poppy to glorify the British war dead, so according to some posters, by wearing it you're automatically doing so to. Some people wear the Easter lily as a symbol of the Republican struggle or in support of the paramilitary groups, so does wearing one to comemorate the Easter rising mean I also glorify the actions of those groups?

Yes, I get your argument.

So, do you wear one?

I suspect not.

I also suspect that if I had the next three hours to drag it out of you, (which I don't) that you'd give a reason which would make total bullsh1t of your argument that the poppy doesn't represent British actions in the north or in Iraq. Something like "murdering terrorist bombers rabble rabble rabble"

Timberrrrrrrr · 11-11-2014 02:34PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Fair play lad. Wear your poppy with pride. :rolleyes:

I do

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/129/590x/First-World-War-509689.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/09/1412888441167_wps_6_LONDON_ENGLAND_OCTOBER_09.jpg

rainbow kirby · 11-11-2014 02:38PM

My (Indian-born) boss just cracked on with the stand-up meeting at 11 without noticing that other people were observing it!

FTA69 · 11-11-2014 02:43PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I do

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/129/590x/First-World-War-509689.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/09/1412888441167_wps_6_LONDON_ENGLAND_OCTOBER_09.jpg

Thus proving my original point. When you point out to the poppy brigade that the British Legion is also concerned with those who committed massacres against civilians in their own country you either meet with blind indifference or this bizarre notion of:

'I support this symbol that supports all British Army adventures but I don't support some aspects of it.'

Total sh*te in other words.

11-11-2014 02:45PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I do

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/129/590x/First-World-War-509689.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/10/09/1412888441167_wps_6_LONDON_ENGLAND_OCTOBER_09.jpg

I liked the idea of this, as a memorial it's fitting and actually remembering the individual dead is nice. But again the charity partners are the usual all-inclusive serving British Army ones which is disappointing, why couldn't it have been to fundraise for a permanent memorial to the WW1 dead or a graves association?
Also the picture of a 13 year old buy in full army dress laying the final poppy seemed a little disturbing imo

Timberrrrrrrr · 11-11-2014 02:46PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Thus proving my original point. When you point out to the poppy brigade that the British Legion is also concerned with those who committed massacres against civilians in their own country you either meet with blind indifference or this bizarre notion of:

'I support this symbol that supports all British Army adventures but I don't support some aspects of it.'

Total sh*te in other words.

Listen kiddo

You can think what you want, spin what you want and believe what you want. I will wear the poppy for MY reasons and not the hysterical reasons you want to force on everyone. Don't like that? Feel free to avoid the threads with the word poppy in them so as not to upset your delicate feelings. Either that or feel free to approach me in the street and make your feelings known to my face.

FTA69 · 11-11-2014 02:53PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Listen kiddo

You can think what you want, spin what you want and believe what you want. I will wear the poppy for MY reasons and not the hysterical reasons you want to force on everyone. Don't like that? Feel free to avoid the threads with the word poppy in them so as not to upset your delicate feelings. Either that or feel free to approach me in the street and make your feelings known to my face.

It isn't spin and it isn't belief. The fact is that the British Legion poppy is concerned with positively commemorating ALL British soldiers and ALL the imperial wars in which they fought and continue to fight today. I've posted the link to it below which you can view for yourself. That includes those who shot demonstrators in Derry, tortured innocent people in prison as well as dragged innocent people off to internment camps without trial. You can ignore that fact if you want and pretend the poppy means something else, but don't get ratty when someone points out the reality of what that symbol entails.

Unfortunately for many of the British Army's victims there will be very few symbols sold or state-sponsored commemorations held for them.

statesaver · 11-11-2014 02:55PM

Well done poppy wearers for remembering sectarian murderers in the North.

UVF Mural Glenwood Street Belfast

https://www.facebook.com/BELFASTLAD/photos/a.167845846753708.1073741828.167750270096599/308559109349047/?type=1&relevant_count=1

Timberrrrrrrr · 11-11-2014 02:55PM

FTA69 wrote: »

It isn't spin and it isn't belief. The fact is that the British Legion poppy is concerned with positively commemorating ALL British soldiers and ALL the imperial wars in which they fought and continue to fight today. I've posted the link to it below which you can view for yourself. That includes those who shot demonstrators in Derry, tortured innocent people in prison as well as dragged innocent people off to internment camps without trial. You can ignore that fact if you want and pretend the poppy means something else, but don't get ratty when someone points out the reality of what that symbol entails.

Unfortunately for many of the British Army's victims there will be very few symbols sold or state-sponsored commemorations held for them.

That post reminds me of a 4 year old shouting and stamping his feet because no matter how loudly he shouts no one will listen to him. Am done here see you all next year.

FTA69 · 11-11-2014 02:57PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

That post reminds me of a 4 year old shouting and stamping his feet because no matter how loudly he shouts no one will listen to him. Am done here see you all next year.

Since you're obviously unaware of what the poppy symbolises:

http://www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/poppy-appeal

Money raised through the Poppy Appeal goes directly to our welfare work providing through life care to anyone who is currently serving in the British Armed Forces, who has previously served, and their families.

Karl Stein · 11-11-2014 03:09PM

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

That post reminds me of a 4 year old shouting and stamping his feet because no matter how loudly he shouts no one will listen to him.

Plenty are listening and agree that what's being said is the truth. You'd rather not listen and that's why you revert to baiting.

You should promote yourself to commander in chief of the 'shut up' brigade.

Manach · 11-11-2014 03:10PM

No but ...
I know and post a bit on history. I'd recognise the many brave souls who lost their lives or health in the "War to end wars". Recent trends in historical study now focus on the lives of this lost generation. However, my own traditional roots would not be part of the 11/11 celebrations and I'd feel the honours paid during the annual day of remembrance are sufficient.

AudreyHepburn · 11-11-2014 03:14PM

statesaver wrote: »

Well done poppy wearers for remembering sectarian murderers in the North.

UVF Mural Glenwood Street Belfast

https://www.facebook.com/BELFASTLAD/photos/a.167845846753708.1073741828.167750270096599/308559109349047/?type=1&relevant_count=1

I can only speak for myself but that's certainly not who I remember.

Two minute silence at 11am

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