Stallions

califano · 06-11-2014 02:30PM

Its just €4,000 for Famous Name.

bellybuster12 · 06-11-2014 05:20PM

Lope De Vega up from 15k to 40k for 2015

paddyisreal · 07-11-2014 05:51PM

Darley European fees --

Stallion fee (2014)

Dalham Hall Stud

Dubawi £125,000 (£100,000)

New Approach £80,000 (£80,000)

Iffraaj £22,500 (€25,000)

Sepoy £15,000 (£15,000)

Farhh £12,000 (£15,000)

Poet's Voice £12,000 (£12,000)

Epaulette £7,000 (£7,500)

Kheleyf £3,000 (£5,000)

Kildangan Stud

Shamardal €70,000 (€50,000)

Teofilo €50,000 (€50,000)

Exceed And Excel €40,000 (£35,000)

Dawn Approach €35,000 (€35,000)

Cape Cross €20,000 (€30,000)

Slade Power €20,000 NEW

Raven's Pass €20,000 (€25,000)

Helmet €10,000 (£8,000)

Casamento €5,000 (£5,000)

Vale Of York €3,000 (€3,000)

Haras du Logis

Authorized €10,000 (€10,000)

Manduro €7,000 (€7,000)

Rio De La Plata €5,500 (€7,000)

Slickly €5,500 (€7,000)

Alexandros €3,000 (€3,000)

Masterstroke €3,000 (€3,000)

Peintre Celebre · 07-11-2014 07:33PM

Surprised Raven's Pass hasn't dropped more he has proved absolutely woeful at stud.

Sea the Stars to 125k next year

Panrich · 08-11-2014 03:26PM

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

Surprised Raven's Pass hasn't dropped more he has proved absolutely woeful at stud.

Sea the Stars to 125k next year

Bit surprised by Sea The Stars even allowing for a great first crop. His stock take time and you won't be getting too many big days out with your two olds with him. Patience is not a prevalent trait in the flat racing industry.

rule supreme · 08-11-2014 03:40PM

I see Mastercraftsman is 40k next year , what was his price this year

Gringo180 · 08-11-2014 03:58PM

80k for New Approach is a bit steep.

bellybuster12 · 08-11-2014 06:14PM

Kingman to cover Taghrooda. https://twitter.com/rpbloodstock/status/531117023611609088

FIVE2_THREE · 08-11-2014 06:32PM

It's a bit too soon to be moving Sea the stars. He may have had a great first crop but he has no 2 year olds' to speak of for next season classics and it would be horrendous for him if he has no group one winners next season. that would result in a reduction of his sire fee after only two racing crops. they should have left his fee where it was for at least 3 crops.

FIVE2_THREE · 08-11-2014 06:36PM

rule supreme wrote: »

I see Mastercraftsman is 40k next year , what was his price this year

It's was 35,000 for 2014

FIVE2_THREE · 08-11-2014 07:05PM

bellybuster12 wrote: »

Kingman to cover Taghrooda. https://twitter.com/rpbloodstock/status/531117023611609088

Ending result would be a 5x4 to Norther Dancer, a 3/4 to Greed Desert and a 5/4 to Danzig as both Kingman and Tag. descend directly from Danzig via Green Desert in the male line. Speedy Pedigree

I said · 08-11-2014 08:22PM

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Ending result would be a 5x4 to Norther Dancer, a 3/4 to Greed Desert and a 5/4 to Danzig as both Kingman and Tag. descend directly from Danzig via Green Desert in the male line. Speedy Pedigree

Will probably end up as a three mile chaser.lol

tryfix · 09-11-2014 12:00AM

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

It's a bit too soon to be moving Sea the stars. He may have had a great first crop but he has no 2 year olds' to speak of for next season classics and it would be horrendous for him if he has no group one winners next season. that would result in a reduction of his sire fee after only two racing crops. they should have left his fee where it was for at least 3 crops.

They might as well cash in while the going is good, his credibility is higher due to his two stars than it's likely to be in the long term.

Don't rate him as a supplier of quantity in the quality stock department, but his stock will sell well for a while until the penny drops that he's not a super stallion after a quiet year or two.

tryfix · 09-11-2014 12:07AM

bellybuster12 wrote: »

Kingman to cover Taghrooda. https://twitter.com/rpbloodstock/status/531117023611609088

Nice mating, both superb physical specimens and Taghrooda herself needs another bit of speed injected into her line. She's the product of some speed being injected into her own dam's dour pedigree and continuing the process of speeding up the line seems a sound idea. The resulting foal will stay a trip even with Kingman as the sire.

NewApproach · 09-11-2014 12:46AM

tryfix wrote: »

Nice mating, both superb physical specimens and Taghrooda herself needs another bit of speed injected into her line. She's the product of some speed being injected into her own dam's dour pedigree and continuing the process of speeding up the line seems a sound idea. The resulting foal will stay a trip even with Kingman as the sire.

Kingman's conformation is far from superb

tryfix · 09-11-2014 01:01AM

NewApproach wrote: »

Kingman's conformation is far from superb

He was a very physically strong specimen, an early developer and deep bodied, the legs weren't great but he was a solid really good looking animal.

Sea The Starz · 10-11-2014 01:49PM

I nearly choked on my chicken wings when I seen Sea The Stars price. Any breeders actually paying 125k should get their heads examined.

A 40k increase is insane. Based on what??

Taghrooda was an excellent filly and he has a lot of useful animals but given the quality of his first two books that's the least I'd have expected.

His other 2 group 1 winners - a german derby winner, a filly awarded a race who couldn't even place in group 2's after with no penalty.

Peintre Celebre · 10-11-2014 05:10PM

Sea The Starz wrote: »

I nearly choked on my chicken wings when I seen Sea The Stars price. Any breeders actually paying 125k should get their heads examined.

A 40k increase is insane. Based on what??

Taghrooda was an excellent filly and he has a lot of useful animals but given the quality of his first two books that's the least I'd have expected.

His other 2 group 1 winners - a german derby winner, a filly awarded a race who couldn't even place in group 2's after with no penalty.

2 classic winners in a first crop I'm guessing to be one big reason...Bearing in mind stud fees aren't just based on runners' performances but sales too. Average price through the ring of 243k per foal. Call me crazy but I'm guessing the breeders know what they're doing when using him.

FIVE2_THREE · 12-11-2014 02:58PM

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

2 classic winners in a first crop I'm guessing to be one big reason...Bearing in mind stud fees aren't just based on runners' performances but sales too. Average price through the ring of 243k per foal. Call me crazy but I'm guessing the breeders know what they're doing when using him.

True. but to justify that stud fee he must keep producing G1 horses. I have seen nothing sired by him stamping its self as a player for next years classics.
he can't be just a sire who produces horses who run at 3 years old and then tail off. it that were the case that fee will plummet very soon.

Panrich · 12-11-2014 04:53PM

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

True. but to justify that stud fee he must keep producing G1 horses. I have seen nothing sired by him stamping its self as a player for next years classics.
he can't be just a sire who produces horses who run at 3 years old and then tail off. it that were the case that fee will plummet very soon.

There's zero evidence that they will tail off at four though. In general, horses that improve from two to three will progress again at four as they seem later maturing types. The big dangerous age for regression on the flat is two to three and there are.plenty at three who 'don't train on". STS stock are the opposite to that profile.

ronsh2000 · 13-11-2014 12:09AM

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

he can't be just a sire who produces horses who run at 3 years old and then tail off. it that were the case that fee will plummet very soon.

So you think the horses he has been producing are too precocious? Is it not a bit previous to write off his four year olds considering he doesn't have any yet? Are you basing that on the fact that his three year olds were so good?

FIVE2_THREE · 13-11-2014 04:14AM

ronsh2000 wrote: »

So you think the horses he has been producing are too precocious? Is it not a bit previous to write off his four year olds considering he doesn't have any yet? Are you basing that on the fact that his three year olds were so good?

It's not so much his precocity because he has no 2 year olds worth mentioning for the 2015 classics. Tag hit the wall at 3. had she stayed in training at 4 she would have nothing to offer in 2015. Sea the moon was done after the German Derby and Vazira is a horse I have no opinion of. I see that for some there is a rush to push him as a sire given who his brother is but to those people I say slow down. the raising of his fee was too soon.

ronsh2000 · 13-11-2014 12:39PM

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

It's not so much his precocity because he has no 2 year olds worth mentioning for the 2015 classics. Tag hit the wall at 3. had she stayed in training at 4 she would have nothing to offer in 2015. Sea the moon was done after the German Derby and Vazira is a horse I have no opinion of. I see that for some there is a rush to push him as a sire given who his brother is but to those people I say slow down. the raising of his fee was too soon.

Tag came third in the Arc having run half way round Paris from a wide draw - that's hardly hitting the wall. What possible evidence could you have to allow you to categorically state that she "would have nothing to offer in 2015"? Sea The Moon was retired because he was injured, not because he was over the top.

Sea The Starz · 13-11-2014 02:22PM

Peintre Celebre wrote: »

2 classic winners in a first crop I'm guessing to be one big reason...Bearing in mind stud fees aren't just based on runners' performances but sales too. Average price through the ring of 243k per foal. Call me crazy but I'm guessing the breeders know what they're doing when using him.

Mastercraftsman also had 2 top quality classic winners aswell and a number of other stakes winners yet only 40k from a much lower class book of mares. (I personally wouldn't call German classics as "classics").Similarly New Approach 2 classic winners AND 3 royal ascot winning 2yo's from his first crop yet fee only upped to 80k gbp. There just 2 off the top of my head who have performed similarly if not better and yet undercut him.

Yes STS sales results are excellent and he gets good looking stock but had a book of mares on a par with Galileo. In my opinion sales results feed less into the price the more crops you have so although a big factor of his price before and during his first crop, it shouldn't have much too weight in his fee now. Also there's generally delirium with first crop sires at the sales especially one as exciting as STS. I believe Frankel will have similar if not better sales results, even without knowing what his stock look like for the above reasons - great book of mares and first season excitement.

ronsh2000 · 13-11-2014 02:36PM

Sea The Starz wrote: »

Mastercraftsman also had 2 top quality classic winners aswell and a number of other stakes winners yet only 40k from a much lower class book of mares. (I personally wouldn't call German classics as "classics").Similarly New Approach 2 classic winners AND 3 royal ascot winning 2yo's from his first crop yet fee only upped to 80k gbp. There just 2 off the top of my head who have performed similarly if not better and yet undercut him.

Yes STS sales results are excellent and he gets good looking stock but had a book of mares on a par with Galileo. In my opinion sales results feed less into the price the more crops you have so although a big factor of his price before and during his first crop, it shouldn't have much too weight in his fee now. Also there's generally delirium with first crop sires at the sales especially one as exciting as STS. I believe Frankel will have similar if not better sales results, even without knowing what his stock look like for the above reasons - great book of mares and first season excitement.

STS has 10.6% black-type winners to runners, second only to Galileo as leading European sire in this category. He is also second by winners to runners with 53.2% (to Dubawi I think.) he's up there with the big boys.

FIVE2_THREE · 13-11-2014 03:48PM

ronsh2000 wrote: »

Tag came third in the Arc having run half way round Paris from a wide draw - that's hardly hitting the wall. What possible evidence could you have to allow you to categorically state that she "would have nothing to offer in 2015"? Sea The Moon was retired because he was injured, not because he was over the top.

Sea the moon was beaten decisively by a B level horse. Tag was not the same horse after York. that's when the wheels came off. you can pat her on the back for running 3rd in the Arc but I don't see it that way. had she stayed in training for 2015 the decline would be evident.

ronsh2000 · 13-11-2014 03:58PM

FIVE2_THREE wrote: »

Sea the moon was beaten decisively by a B level horse. Tag was not the same horse after York. that's when the wheels came off. you can pat her on the back for running 3rd in the Arc but I don't see it that way. had she stayed in training for 2015 the decline would be evident.

If you think her effort in the Arc was disappointing then you must have an even higher opinion of her than I do. STM had excuses. Your conjecture about Tag in 2015 is pure codswallop (to put it politely).

Panrich · 13-11-2014 04:22PM

I'd say that any trainer with a STS says that they need time. With that in mind, they won't be overfaced early and will have more to offer as they get older. I can't remember any sire who could only ever sire a good 3yo.

FIVE2_THREE · 13-11-2014 04:32PM

ronsh2000 wrote: »

If you think her effort in the Arc was disappointing then you must have an even higher opinion of her than I do. STM had excuses. Your conjecture about Tag in 2015 is pure codswallop (to put it politely).

What were his "excuses" ? He lost fair and square

Peintre Celebre · 13-11-2014 04:36PM

Sea The Starz wrote: »

Mastercraftsman also had 2 top quality classic winners aswell and a number of other stakes winners yet only 40k from a much lower class book of mares. (I personally wouldn't call German classics as "classics").Similarly New Approach 2 classic winners AND 3 royal ascot winning 2yo's from his first crop yet fee only upped to 80k gbp. There just 2 off the top of my head who have performed similarly if not better and yet undercut him.

Yes STS sales results are excellent and he gets good looking stock but had a book of mares on a par with Galileo. In my opinion sales results feed less into the price the more crops you have so although a big factor of his price before and during his first crop, it shouldn't have much too weight in his fee now. Also there's generally delirium with first crop sires at the sales especially one as exciting as STS. I believe Frankel will have similar if not better sales results, even without knowing what his stock look like for the above reasons - great book of mares and first season excitement.

I'm repeating myself. Sea the Stars' foals sell for an average of 3 x the cover fee. this is going to have a HUGE say on his stud fee. You do realize Mastercraftsman's average is 48k. He is obviously doing very well but do you really think Coolmore could stand him at 80 grand or something, nearly twice his average sales. These are facts not opinions

No disrespect but just because you wouldn't call a classic a classic does not mean it is not so.

You also say New Approach is ''only' up to 80k. That is over 100k Euro and bearing in mind this year was hardly an exceptional one for him

Stallions

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