Peintre Celebre wrote: » Surprised Raven's Pass hasn't dropped more he has proved absolutely woeful at stud. Sea the Stars to 125k next year
rule supreme wrote: » I see Mastercraftsman is 40k next year , what was his price this year
bellybuster12 wrote: » Kingman to cover Taghrooda. https://twitter.com/rpbloodstock/status/531117023611609088
FIVE2_THREE wrote: » Ending result would be a 5x4 to Norther Dancer, a 3/4 to Greed Desert and a 5/4 to Danzig as both Kingman and Tag. descend directly from Danzig via Green Desert in the male line. Speedy Pedigree
FIVE2_THREE wrote: » It's a bit too soon to be moving Sea the stars. He may have had a great first crop but he has no 2 year olds' to speak of for next season classics and it would be horrendous for him if he has no group one winners next season. that would result in a reduction of his sire fee after only two racing crops. they should have left his fee where it was for at least 3 crops.
tryfix wrote: » Nice mating, both superb physical specimens and Taghrooda herself needs another bit of speed injected into her line. She's the product of some speed being injected into her own dam's dour pedigree and continuing the process of speeding up the line seems a sound idea. The resulting foal will stay a trip even with Kingman as the sire.
NewApproach wrote: » Kingman's conformation is far from superb
Sea The Starz wrote: » I nearly choked on my chicken wings when I seen Sea The Stars price. Any breeders actually paying 125k should get their heads examined. A 40k increase is insane. Based on what?? Taghrooda was an excellent filly and he has a lot of useful animals but given the quality of his first two books that's the least I'd have expected. His other 2 group 1 winners - a german derby winner, a filly awarded a race who couldn't even place in group 2's after with no penalty.
Peintre Celebre wrote: » 2 classic winners in a first crop I'm guessing to be one big reason...Bearing in mind stud fees aren't just based on runners' performances but sales too. Average price through the ring of 243k per foal. Call me crazy but I'm guessing the breeders know what they're doing when using him.
FIVE2_THREE wrote: » True. but to justify that stud fee he must keep producing G1 horses. I have seen nothing sired by him stamping its self as a player for next years classics. he can't be just a sire who produces horses who run at 3 years old and then tail off. it that were the case that fee will plummet very soon.
FIVE2_THREE wrote: » he can't be just a sire who produces horses who run at 3 years old and then tail off. it that were the case that fee will plummet very soon.
ronsh2000 wrote: » So you think the horses he has been producing are too precocious? Is it not a bit previous to write off his four year olds considering he doesn't have any yet? Are you basing that on the fact that his three year olds were so good?
FIVE2_THREE wrote: » It's not so much his precocity because he has no 2 year olds worth mentioning for the 2015 classics. Tag hit the wall at 3. had she stayed in training at 4 she would have nothing to offer in 2015. Sea the moon was done after the German Derby and Vazira is a horse I have no opinion of. I see that for some there is a rush to push him as a sire given who his brother is but to those people I say slow down. the raising of his fee was too soon.
Sea The Starz wrote: » Mastercraftsman also had 2 top quality classic winners aswell and a number of other stakes winners yet only 40k from a much lower class book of mares. (I personally wouldn't call German classics as "classics").Similarly New Approach 2 classic winners AND 3 royal ascot winning 2yo's from his first crop yet fee only upped to 80k gbp. There just 2 off the top of my head who have performed similarly if not better and yet undercut him. Yes STS sales results are excellent and he gets good looking stock but had a book of mares on a par with Galileo. In my opinion sales results feed less into the price the more crops you have so although a big factor of his price before and during his first crop, it shouldn't have much too weight in his fee now. Also there's generally delirium with first crop sires at the sales especially one as exciting as STS. I believe Frankel will have similar if not better sales results, even without knowing what his stock look like for the above reasons - great book of mares and first season excitement.
ronsh2000 wrote: » Tag came third in the Arc having run half way round Paris from a wide draw - that's hardly hitting the wall. What possible evidence could you have to allow you to categorically state that she "would have nothing to offer in 2015"? Sea The Moon was retired because he was injured, not because he was over the top.
FIVE2_THREE wrote: » Sea the moon was beaten decisively by a B level horse. Tag was not the same horse after York. that's when the wheels came off. you can pat her on the back for running 3rd in the Arc but I don't see it that way. had she stayed in training for 2015 the decline would be evident.
ronsh2000 wrote: » If you think her effort in the Arc was disappointing then you must have an even higher opinion of her than I do. STM had excuses. Your conjecture about Tag in 2015 is pure codswallop (to put it politely).
