Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

Bridge93 · 03-11-2014 11:35PM

Headshot wrote: »

Not really.

You dont call for the head of a WC manager that has a pedigree to prove it

Yes really, you'd swear Moyes lost his first 10 games. He had a poorish start but not so bad he deserved headhunting in early November, and the majority of the thread at the time agrees with this.

Bridge93 · 03-11-2014 11:37PM

adox wrote: »

Well that's where I disagree. Different times, different circumstances. Utd wouldn't have so far to climb back up if Moyes had been removed sooner.

Anyway not trying to rehash the Moyes debate, was just trying to give some context when commenting on the calls for Van Gaals head.

Sooner maybe, but 10 games is ridiculous especially after all he was following, left with and what Ferguson told the fans.

Headshot · 03-11-2014 11:38PM

I ****ing despise the Moyes defenders

I cant get my head around how anyone can defend this manager that has destroyed this team

Im done talking about him. Giving me ulcer thinking about the rubbish last season

Bridge93 · 03-11-2014 11:42PM

Headshot wrote: »

I ****ing despise the Moyes defenders

I cant get my head around how anyone can defend this manager that has destroyed this team

Im done talking about him. Giving me ulcer thinking about the rubbish last season

If youre willing to calm down and read the posts you'll see I'm not defending Moyes, I'm defending the idea that managers deserve more than 2 and a half months to prove themselves. Much the same as Van Gaal should be and those calling for his sacking need a looking at.

Rayne Wooney · 03-11-2014 11:43PM

The damage began long before Moyes tbh

Van Gaal will get the team playing at a more than acceptable standard eventually, it's insane talking about him being sacked after 10 games

Mantis Toboggan · 03-11-2014 11:52PM

Headshot wrote: »

I ****ing despise the Moyes defenders

I cant get my head around how anyone can defend this manager that has destroyed this team

Im done talking about him. Giving me ulcer thinking about the rubbish last season

Same could be said about the LVG defenders. People need to open their eyes to reality.

No manager should be above criticism, especially if the team is under-performing.

kryogen · 04-11-2014 12:03AM

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Same could be said about the LVG defenders. People need to open their eyes to reality.

No manager should be above criticism, especially if the team is under-performing.

Criticism, grand, can you clarify your position on the questions that follow please?

You think Van Gaal should be sacked?
You think we are playing worse then last season?
You think there is no improvement weekly in our performances?
You think managers have a magic wand?

Billy86 · 04-11-2014 12:11AM

kryogen wrote: »

You think managers have a magic wand?

Can we get Luca Toni to answer this? :pac:

kryogen · 04-11-2014 12:14AM

Billy86 wrote: »

Can we get Luca Toni to answer this? :pac:

He can answer after the other lad I suppose, or the simple request can just be ignored. Wouldn't be anything new

Mantis Toboggan · 04-11-2014 12:15AM

kryogen wrote: »

Criticism, grand, can you clarify your position on the questions that follow please?

You think Van Gaal should be sacked? Sacked - nope. criticised? Absolutely

You think we are playing worse then last season? Given the amount of money spent we should be playing better.

You think there is no improvement weekly in our performances? Not particularly, I think the formation changes from 352 to 41212 and 433 have seen us perform better as a unit

You think managers have a magic wand? Fergie had Seriously, this man is supposed to have a golden Penis, so maybe it's time he dropped the trousers.

Think this pretty much sums up my opinion.

kryogen · 04-11-2014 12:21AM

You haven't answered whether you think we are playing worse then last season, but thanks.

Now, we agree he should not be sacked, great, he has been criticised for certain decisions. Check.
As I said, you didn't answer the next one, but its pretty obvious to everyone we are certainly not playing worse then last year.
You agree with me that there has been an improvement weekly in our performances. Check
You do not think managers have a magic wand. Check

You don't exactly differ much from the crowd there, from reading your posts I would have thought differently.

aligator_am · 04-11-2014 12:22AM

adox wrote: »

I honestly don't think that some people realise the damage that was done last season and the state the club was in at the end of the season, and there has been huge changes again since then.

Calling for Van Gaals head at this early stage is beyond ludicrous and this is coming from someone who was calling for Moyes head at this stage last season.

I've not read the full thread but genuine question, who's calling for LVG's head? (I don't doubt you on it, just wondering if it was in here)

I think there's been underlying issues with the squad for the past 2 or 3 years, Moyes inherited that and it was likely too much for him, but I think LVG has taken it by the horns and is dealing with it.

I know he loves to bang on about his philosophy but I think he's taking us in the right direction, it's probable that this season is a write off (I hope I'm wrong about that) but I think he's building for the next season or two.

We'll see what happens in the January transfer window.

04-11-2014 12:31AM

Headshot wrote: »

I ****ing despise the Moyes defenders

I cant get my head around how anyone can defend this manager that has destroyed this team

Im done talking about him. Giving me ulcer thinking about the rubbish last season

Destroyed a team that remained the exact same except for an extra CM when he left? Right. Edit:forgot about Mata here actually, so add a WC attacking player there too.

He hardly made them forget to play football. The league got significantly better in last year's Summer window and Moyes did the same as LVG and took stock of the players but when it came to crunch time Woodward didn't get the players like he did for LVG for some reason or another. United have half as many points as Chelsea with a quarter of the season gone after spending £100m more than he did in the Summer, who's been the best player over the last 3 games? Moyes only signing.

I think Woodward went looking for a quick fix from the moment he sacked Moyes and that was the wrong approach imo and if Gill had stayed I don't think it would have happened. There is no good cover on the wings or in defense and instead of trying to provide some continuity both the fans and the upper management did exactly what Fergie warned them not to. Moyes was in a far better position to make a judgment on players than LVG but wasn't given a chance with player's rising up in the way they did and the management bowing to it. Sets a good precedent right?

I wonder if United held on to beat Bayern would Moyes have kept his job? Those games showed what the team was capable of producing and instead of giving the manager some backing they rip up the team again and expect it to turn out better. I'm not sold on the current approach at all tbh, and Di Maria and Falcao are players I've only dreamed of having at United in the past. I don't know what it was but something felt really off about ignoring defense while bringing them in.

Mantis Toboggan · 04-11-2014 12:33AM

kryogen wrote: »

You haven't answered whether you think we are playing worse then last season, but thanks.

Now, we agree he should not be sacked, great, he has been criticised for certain decisions. Check.
As I said, you didn't answer the next one, but its pretty obvious to everyone we are certainly not playing worse then last year.
You agree with me that there has been an improvement weekly in our performances. Check
You do not think managers have a magic wand. Check

You don't exactly differ much from the crowd there, from reading your posts I would have thought differently.

Well supposedly we have much better players than last season (remember the board never backed Moyes in the transfer market) so in that respect we are playing better. I still reckon we signed the wrong players over the summer/spent too much on these players (50k per day for Falcao...) and letting some players leave cheaply (wellbeck) together with poor decisions (new contracts for Valencia and Nani) All in just a very disgruntled United fan and i've been to OT twice already this season to watch drivel.

Lukker- · 04-11-2014 12:37AM

Will I Amnt wrote: »

Chelsea were poor last season, it was a poor league tbh. He took over a team that finished 3rd and over the course of a full season finished up 3rd.

Wouldn't really say that. Beat the top 4 home and away. If they had a top striker against the smaller teams they'd have walked the league.

ShooterSF · 04-11-2014 12:42AM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Mourinho mounted a credible title challenge last season.

Van Gaal has spent north of £100m and presided over our worst start to a season since 1986.

This time last season Mourinho's Chelsea were 2 points worse off than the season before. If anything the team was in regression (using a similar argument of yours earlier re Moyes v LVG)

NIMAN · 04-11-2014 12:49AM

I'm not a Utd fan, but as a neutral I see LVG being given a lot more time simply due to the fact of who he is.

Plus, they will throw whatever money he asks for at him to buy more players, simply because of who he is.

But if you let me spend what LVG has spent or will spend over the next year or two, I would make Utd a good team again. It won't necessarily mean he's a genius. He's a genius if he turns them around on a limited budget and with tactics, but not by spending hundreds of millions of pounds.

Billy86 · 04-11-2014 12:59AM

Liam O wrote: »

Destroyed a team that remained the exact same except for an extra CM when he left? Right. Edit:forgot about Mata here actually, so add a WC attacking player there too.

Yeah, it's not like we lost the four most experienced leaders on our team or anything, including our captain who even came out and said he would have stayed if he knew Moyes was gone if I recall...

I'm not getting back into the one millionth debate on if Moyes was going to magically turn around the team falling off a cliff from when he came in, but forget beating Bayern... we didn't really even deserve to be there, just got lucky RVP had an amazing game and DDG saved the day. Against Olympiakos.

Blatter · 04-11-2014 01:17AM

Only 10 games gone. The first three were a bit of a mess, completely different lineups and system (three at the back - which was a disaster) to what we've seen over the last few weeks.

I reckon if we were to play the first three games again over the next three weeks (Swansea (h), Sunderland, Burnley (a)), you would see the team pick up 7-9 points, not the 2 that we actually got.

The side right now, although far from perfect, is much more settled. Performances are getting better and the players/manager are clearly all pulling in the same direction, which is a major difference between now and this time last year under Moyes.

The Moldy Gowl · 04-11-2014 01:20AM

Buddy Holly wrote: »

Well supposedly we have much better players than last season (remember the board never backed Moyes in the transfer market) so in that respect we are playing better. I still reckon we signed the wrong players over the summer/spent too much on these players (50k per day for Falcao...) and letting some players leave cheaply (wellbeck) together with poor decisions (new contracts for Valencia and Nani) All in just a very disgruntled United fan and i've been to OT twice already this season to watch drivel.

Hahahaha 50 000 a day. Lol.

Pighead · 04-11-2014 01:20AM

kryogen wrote: »

Meh, its Arsenal. Always confident when we play them.

Indeed. Read the other day that the last 14 games between the sides have seen Man Utd W 10 D3 L1. That's a pretty dominant record against a supposed rival.

The Moldy Gowl · 04-11-2014 01:26AM

Larry Wildman wrote: »

Fair play to you for engaging in reasoned debate.

However, I've an issue with your argument - You're suggesting that we judge Van Gaal based on things that haven't happened. The only objective measure is results - And with the biggest spend in the history of the club, we've seen the worst results since 1986.

How was Mourinho able to take over Chelsea the first time, integrate a load of new players and win the league at a canter? Pellegrini did the same.

I do enjoy your posts, apart from the naive thinking I don't let them get to me like other people.

But yes. Like it's been said, we can't judge him on 10 games. If you don't know why then just leave and go watch
People play FIFA.

Come back in 10 games time, that would be a fair time frame.

04-11-2014 01:33AM

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah, it's not like we lost the four most experienced leaders on our team or anything, including our captain who even came out and said he would have stayed if he knew Moyes was gone if I recall...

I'm not getting back into the one millionth debate on if Moyes was going to magically turn around the team falling off a cliff from when he came in, but forget beating Bayern... we didn't really even deserve to be there, just got lucky RVP had an amazing game and DDG saved the day. Against Olympiakos.

Moyes didn't get rid of Rio and Evra, not much use they were last season in helping to get him sacked. Hardly blame him for Giggs considering he's still there and Vidic was always going to leave in fairness. Olympiakos are no slouches at home and if anything it shoukd be a plus that he got the team through, until they played Madrid United fot closer than anyone to knocking out Bayern over 2 seasons, on another day DDG saves the shot right after Evra's goal or the aforementioned leaders actually lead the team and United go through.

kryogen · 04-11-2014 01:36AM

Pighead wrote: »

Indeed. Read the other day that the last 14 games between the sides have seen Man Utd W 10 D3 L1. That's a pretty dominant record against a supposed rival.

I did a quick check in case I needed to back my point up with stats earlier, we have a pretty incredible record v Arsenal in recent times in all honesty, considering they have always been one of the traditional big four, and before that the main rival.

Since 03....Away from home, played 12, won 3 drawn 6 lost 3. The last 4 years carry that trends, played 4 won 1 lost 1 drew 2

At home since 03, played 11, won 8 drew 2 lost 1.

A serious record against them, the only game they won in that time at OT was in 06 and last time at Emirates was 2011.

Anyways, combined total the last 23 meetings has seen United win 11 of the games and lose just 4. I fear nothing from Arsenal. Sure they could turn up and do a number on United, they could on anyone on their day. More often then not they don't though, certainly not against United.

The Moldy Gowl · 04-11-2014 01:37AM

Stats are for chumps. Let's fire everyone abd play the mascots. Bitches love kids

Mantis Toboggan · 04-11-2014 01:38AM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Hahahaha 50 000 a day. Lol.

Aye, 350k per week. Savage money.

kryogen · 04-11-2014 01:42AM

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Stats are for chumps. Let's fire everyone abd play the mascots. Bitches love kids

Ah they have their uses, can support a variety of points of view depending on what way you want to twist them. Us having nothing to fear from Arsenal needs no stat to back it up, this team has just put it up to the two best teams in the country. Arsenal must be respected, but not feared.

Also, I prefer the phrase, stats are for losers, The final score is for winners.

The Moldy Gowl · 04-11-2014 01:50AM

kryogen wrote: »

Ah they have their uses, can support a variety of points of view depending on what way you want to twist them. Us having nothing to fear from Arsenal needs no stat to back it up, this team has just put it up to the two best teams in the country. Arsenal must be respected, but not feared.

Also, I prefer the phrase, stats are for losers, The final score is for winners.

Stats are great for twisting. I did sociology in college. Grab some numbers, make assumptions.

Larry Wildman · 04-11-2014 06:36AM

Whatsisname wrote: »

Say that again?

Now you're being disingenuous.

A different point was made each time.

You're deploying a rather cute tactic - Accuse someone of not responding, even when they do. Then ask them different questions which have similar answers and accuse them of repeating themself.

I was dealing with different issues - Moyes, Mourinho etc.

Larry Wildman · 04-11-2014 06:39AM

ShooterSF wrote: »

This time last season Mourinho's Chelsea were 2 points worse off than the season before. If anything the team was in regression (using a similar argument of yours earlier re Moyes v LVG)

But Van Gaal has spent the GDP of a small country to get worse results...

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - See Mod Warning in OP, 09/11

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