Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

NukaCola · 02-11-2014 09:02PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

It's 28 games I believe.

He's an international player in his mid twenties with loads of top level experience who cost aporox £20m.

How many games does it take before it's ok to have an opinion on him?

It was widely reported that he cost 15m.
He has made 25 appearances.

You can have an opinion on any player at any time you like. Personally I wouldn't call a player an appalling signing after 25 games.

MD1990 · 02-11-2014 09:03PM

Sakho was playing well before his hamstring injury last December imo.

SuperTortoise · 02-11-2014 09:05PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

It's 28 games I believe.

He's an international player in his mid twenties with loads of top level experience who cost aporox £20m.

How many games does it take before it's ok to have an opinion on him?

Of what i've seen of him in those games i am confident his ceiling is much higher than any other CB we have at the club, even now i'd rate him above Lovren and Skittles on current ability.

Mr Alan · 02-11-2014 09:10PM

NukaCola wrote: »

You can have an opinion on any player at any time you like. Personally I wouldn't call a player an appalling signing after 25 games.

So when is it ok to have an opinion?

Put it like this, Sakho is at the club longer than Andy Carroll, Downing, Adam ever were....so presumably it's ridiculous to have had any opinion on them?

If I searched for your thoughts on those players, would I find a consistent approach in line with what you're saying here now about Sakho? Or would I find you slating them as ****e signings?

MD1990 · 02-11-2014 09:14PM

I know Lovren & Sakho were not good when they played together this season but I would like to see them given 5-10 games in the back 4 for us try to play a high line with pressure high up the pitch wih Borini & Balotelli up front.
I would like us to go once Sakho is fit. Also Flanagan is proving to be a big enough loss imo.

Mignolet

Manquillo--Lovren--Sakho--Moreno

Gerrard

Henderson----Coutinho

Sterling

Balotelli----Borini---

Sturridge in place of Borini once fit.

NukaCola · 02-11-2014 09:18PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

So when is it ok to have an opinion?

Put it like this, Sakho is at the club longer than Andy Carroll, Downing, Adam ever were....so presumably it's ridiculous to have had any opinion on them?

Did i say its ridiculous to have an opinion on him?

You do realise he was signed last summer though? One full season and a bit.

Downing had 2 full seasons.
Adam has more games and approx the same time.
Carroll had a full season and a half.

tok9 · 02-11-2014 09:19PM

You can have an opinion, just don't be expecting everyone to agree with it.

Mr Alan · 02-11-2014 09:21PM

NukaCola wrote: »

Did i say its ridiculous to have an opinion on him?

You do realise he was signed last summer though? One full season and a bit.

Downing had 2 full seasons.
Adam has more games and approx the same time.
Carroll had a full season and a half.

I had in my head he was signed the Jan before, but regardless, my point is pretty much the same. He has had plenty of time & shown **** all.

Mr Alan · 02-11-2014 09:23PM

tok9 wrote: »

You can have an opinion, just don't be expecting everyone to agree with it.

People saying it's silly to have an opinion this early is what's grating. Those people are just wrong.

Francie Barrett · 02-11-2014 09:27PM

The difference between us and the other big clubs is that they have accepted that you need to spend massively to bring in top quality play-making/attacking talent. We on the other hand are missing out on these players because we got stung so badly on Carroll that the owners have adopted the strategy of quantity over quality. Before we even kicked a ball this season, I was appalled with our transfers over the Summer. Lallana was way too expensive, £25M for a 26 year old who although is a good player, wasn't likely to step up to be CL quality. £20M on Markovic is starting to look like the worst bit of business we've done. At least when things were going wrong for Sterling last season, I was always confident that he was always getting on the ball, trying different things and working his nuts off. I don't see that from Markovic. What's annoying is that we're about see Suso leave the club on a free, a player who has actually contributed more his career than Markovic. Massively overspending on defenders was also another big mistake. Skrtel and Agger might have mistakes in them but they are generally very good players. We've just spent £50M to replace them, and the defence looks even worse. The fact we miss out on so many of our targets is a damning indictment of our transfer policy.

Hopefully the owners learn from all this and in the next window we focus on quality.

MD1990 · 02-11-2014 09:30PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The difference between us and the other big clubs is that they have accepted that you need to spend massively to bring in top quality play-making/attacking talent. We on the other hand are missing out on these players because we got stung so badly on Carroll that the owners have adopted the strategy of quantity over quality. Before we even kicked a ball this season, I was appalled with our transfers over the Summer. Lallana was way too expensive, £25M for a 26 year old who although is a good player, wasn't likely to step up to be CL quality. £20M on Markovic is starting to look like the worst bit of business we've done. At least when things were going wrong for Sterling last season, I was always confident that he was always getting on the ball, trying different things and working his nuts off. I don't see that from Markovic. What's annoying is that we're about see Suso leave the club on a free, a player who has actually contributed more his career than Markovic. Massively overspending on defenders was also another big mistake. Skrtel and Agger might have mistakes in them but they are generally very good players. We've just spent £50M to replace them, and the defence looks even worse. The fact we miss out on so many of our targets is a damning indictment of our transfer policy.

Hopefully the owners learn from all this and in the next window we focus on quality.

Spot on Francie. Thats my huge worry with Markovic is from the outset has tried to do nothing. He is young but needs to show more courage to try something.

Gbear · 02-11-2014 09:31PM

NukaCola wrote: »

Sakho has also only played 20 odd games.

That is certainly a problem in itself. The same is true of Allen. He's never had a period of several months where he's made himself a fixture.

But unless the players was already a sicknote when you signed them, I'm not sure how you can fault the manager for signing them.

slingerz · 02-11-2014 09:31PM

I think Gerrard can only be accommodated as a striker rather than anywhere else on the pitch. Anywhere else and his lack of legs could be exposed by opponents at least as a second striker he could use his intelligence and shooting ability

Something like

Mignolet
Manquillo Skrtel Lovren Moreno
Henderson Allen
Sterling Coutinho
Balotelli Gerrard

K-9 · 02-11-2014 09:31PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

People saying it's silly to have an opinion this early is what's grating. Those people are just wrong.

It was silly to have these opinions 2 years ago and last season. People having mid life crisises over Rodgers joining. Similar 7/8 games in last season and after losing to City and Chelsea at Christmas.

Rodgers has proven the doubters wrong both seasons so while it mightn't be silly now, it isn't really based on much. We are still only 3 points of 4th, CL knock out football is in our hands and we've a Cup run.

Gbear · 02-11-2014 09:35PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Certainly is when you consider how ropey Napoli have been bar beating Roma.

They've gotten their **** together after a really bad start. Really it was the disastrous loss to Bilbao and two bad results at the start of the league season that put Benitez under pressure. Since then they've done pretty well.

Their problem is a lack of spending. They were a long way behind Juventus and haven't made up any ground on their squad.

Roma have done some smart business in the last couple of years as well.

Turtyturd · 02-11-2014 09:36PM

Whether Markovic comes good or not we shouldn't be pining after players of Suso's quality.

GotTheTshirt · 02-11-2014 09:39PM

Mr Alan wrote: »

So it's the injuries fault now :rolleyes:

It's a definate consideration over the short term which is what we're discussing.

He is in his third season & it does appear the more he puts his own stamp on the team, the worse it gets. I hope I'm wrong.

You neglected to quote this part of my post.

18 months we got better and better, one poor spell after a huge upheavel this summer shouldn't be any cause for panic.

In August people were saying give it a month.

In September, give it two months

Etc etc etc

It's a quarter way through the season now & you're saying he should apparently get 5 months of total dross before it's alright to point out it looks like we're in big trouble?!

He is using up his credits. We've played 1 decent match all season, yet the fans & media haven't turned on him. That's more credit than most get.

If his poor spell continues to Christmas it'll be irreparable IMO.

'people' can say what they wish but do not include me as people for the sake of this 'argument'. I was expressing my own opinion not others. I agree he's using up his credits but there isn't a manager alive who didn't have bad spells, If you'd read my entire post and didn't quote parts of it to suit your aims I'd have more respect, instead what you've done is react with a series of fallicies that only serve to dissuade me from discussing with you. I respect your opinion but selecting sections of a post and discarding the context to suit your argument isn't on.

.

I agree with some aspects of your posts today but your refusal to even consider other arguments sets you in a bad light, stubbornness is rarely a way to have others listen to your opinions.

PhiloCypher · 02-11-2014 09:48PM

Considering Sakhos form for France and psg before moving here , I'm completely baffled how people people are righting him off as being not good enough. The problem with our defence is clearly in the coaching(and currently a lack of confidence), with our squad selection and philosophy leaving our defense badly exposed time after time .

In fact If I had a problem with Sakho its that thus far he seems to be almost as much of a crock as Agger. As such there has been **** all continuity in our defense for the last 18 months , when everyone is fit Rodgers needs to decide on his cb pairing and stick with it regardless of whether we concede a soft goal or 2 or who is back from injury.

Now Sakho may well not make it at pool as Lovren seems to be "a Rodgers signing" and Skrtel has seniority but it has absolutely nothing to do with him being a poor player. A poor signing perhaps but that's something completely different. If we sold him on I'd have every confidence in him being a success given a uninterrupted run in whatever side he ended up in.

Francie Barrett · 02-11-2014 09:51PM

Turtyturd wrote: »

Whether Markovic comes good or not we shouldn't be pining after players of Suso's quality.

I am making the point that we may have just let a 20 year go on a free only to spend £20M on another more inferior 20 year old player.

tok9 · 02-11-2014 10:46PM

Markovic has been disappointing. No doubt about it.

But he didn't make the European Golden boy list for doing nothing. He just hasn't been able to produce for us yet.

I would also love to see Suso get a few games. Said that so many times now. Such a shame he got injured after playing well.

02-11-2014 10:49PM

Just a bit of perspective, Markovic has started 2 games for us. 2 games.

The lad is 20.

Turtyturd · 02-11-2014 10:59PM

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I am making the point that we may have just let a 20 year go on a free only to spend £20M on another more inferior 20 year old player.

Or we may not have.

Demosthenese · 02-11-2014 10:59PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Just a bit of perspective, Markovic has started 2 games for us. 2 games.

The lad is 20.

Alot easier to bring a new guy into the team thats playing well than one which is suffering. So probably better to ease him in considering people love to write off players before they've even had 1 season.

Worrys me that Lallana can't maintain a place in the side this season especially when our current mids have been so poor. I'd love to hear an honest opinion from BR on that one.

Turtyturd · 02-11-2014 11:03PM

Demosthenese wrote: »

Alot easier to bring a new guy into the team thats playing well than one which is suffering. So probably better to ease him in considering people love to write off players before they've even had 1 season.

Worrys me that Lallana can't maintain a place in the side this season especially when our current mids have been so poor. I'd love to hear an honest opinion from BR on that one.

My only explanation is that he is being eased back in since the injury. Like I said earlier he seems like a Rodgers buy so would be surprised if he is being frozen out.

Agent Coulson · 02-11-2014 11:14PM

I wonder with the formation and tactics used yesterday by Rodgers was he trying to be to clever after Big Sam called him out as a manager who was to ridged.

Pardew said after that he was surprised and didn't expect that formation from Liverpool.

magma69 · 02-11-2014 11:38PM

rarnes1 wrote: »

Just a bit of perspective, Markovic has started 2 games for us. 2 games.

The lad is 20.

That's true but spending 20 million on a 20 year old who's only started two games this season is questionable in itself. Just depends what way to look at it. I think we can all agree its too early to pass judgement on him as a player, not a signing.

klose · 02-11-2014 11:40PM

Forgot we are playing madrid tomorrow night...

magma69 · 02-11-2014 11:47PM

klose wrote: »

Forgot we are playing madrid tomorrow night...

We're not playing Madrid tomorrow night.

5starpool · 02-11-2014 11:49PM

klose wrote: »

Forgot we are playing madrid tomorrow night...

Not tomorrow night yet, although that depends where you are posting from I guess.

If we keep it to 3-0 again we'll be doing well I suspect. Hopefully Madrid won't be too bothered in embarrassing us too much.

MD1990 · 02-11-2014 11:49PM

klose wrote: »

Forgot we are playing madrid tomorrow night...

Its depressing that there isnt much hype around that game beacuse nearly everyone thinks we will lose heavily:(

Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

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