Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2014 - Mod Warning in OP, 10/12

Mr Alan

Chucky the tree wrote: »

He did sign him hoping he'd be a big player, just because that hasn't happen yet doesn't make it a bad signing though.

I'm sorry, but if a team signs a player to be a big player & then they turn out not to be and regularly can't get into the team, that means it hasn't worked.

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm sorry, but if a team signs a player to be a big player & then they turn out not to be and regularly can't get into the team, that means it hasn't worked.

It doesn't make it a bad signing or miss.

jesus_thats_gre

hefferboi wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks Joe Allen is a good player?

I think he is perfectly up to the job too. Wee bit expensive but i think he will prove value for money.

Charlie19

hefferboi wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks Joe Allen is a good player?

For me I'd like to see him do more in the final third, he doesn't threaten the opposition goal enough/at all.

Agent Coulson

hefferboi wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks Joe Allen is a good player?

We probably paid too much for him but he is a very good player and the kind of player you need in your first 14 players

Mr Alan

Just to refresh peoples memories, this is what we had when Allen had a couple of good games to start his Liverpool career:

Rodgers wrote:

I would have paid many millions more for this kid. He’s unique in that he’s a British player who is incredible on the ball. His body work is very intelligent and for a 22-year-old it’s frightening. He’s incredible. Joe’s role is to keep the ball. And that, in Britain, is a special talent. It is why Paul Scholes is still playing to his age. It is such a rare talent for a midfielder to rarely give the ball away. People have talked about him and his fee but in time he will be an absolute bargain. He’s a wonderful talent and over time people will see what facets he’s got in his game. Where we have been really pleased with Joe is with his tactical discipline. Maybe he’s never going to score as many as Steven Gerrard but he’s certainly got quality going forward. Offensively, he has far more than what a lot of people have seen, just because he’s having to play a more sitting role at the moment. I have played him in there because he knows how to control the game. He is courageous and will go and get the ball in any area. It is his tactical discipline to stay and keep the shape of the team and offer the passing line, which has been really good though. Because of that we haven’t seen everything he can do going forward – but we will

Read that & even try to say he has lived up to what was expected & it's delusional. If we sold him in the morning we'd make a loss. That says it all.

klose

Joe allen, good player but we overpaid. Think its as simple as that really.

Mr Alan

klose wrote: »

Joe allen, good player but we overpaid. Think its as simple as that really.

Agree.

NukaCola

15m rarely buys you world class anyway lets be honest.

Mr Alan

NukaCola wrote: »

15m rarely buys you world class anyway lets be honest.

It regularly buys quality players for starting 11 though. In this instance, it hasn't.

Gbear

klose wrote: »

Joe allen, good player but we overpaid. Think its as simple as that really.

I think, like with anything, there's a sweet spot in value for money for most transfers.

Even if you overpay by 50% on a £10m sort of player, you're probably getting at least reasonable quality, he'll probably be sufficient to pad out the squad, will hold value ok and not demand crazy wages.

But while I don't want to dismiss the player completely, the Albertos of this world or the Assaidis are pretty much just a waste of time IMO.

Every now and again you might find bargains and you'd like to trust the scouts and all that, but it might take 4 or 5 of that calibre of players to find one who's actually good enough to keep.

And unlike spending 1m for someone like Yesil when they're 16 or 17, you can't throw them into the academy for a year or two.

tok9

Mr Alan wrote: »

So he's as good as our other CBs who we all agree are not good enough. Therefore he is not good enough.

His transfer is another "miss"

But I think he's the best of the three and unlike Skrtel and Lovren, has the potential to improve.

I'm not disagreeing with you regards our transfers in general. Certainly has been a high turnover of players who haven't done as well as we'd hope.

But that's our transfer policy, we look for the talent that's about to make that next step to an excellent player. You're always going to have a few misses. We can't compete with City (Could you imagine if we signed Mangala for that amount to see his current form) or Chelsea.

We all knew we needed a bigger squad this season. It hasn't worked out yet but it's still early in the season.

Utopia Parkway

klose wrote: »

Joe allen, good player but we overpaid. Think its as simple as that really.

Hasn't exactly been a hit but I wouldn't class him as a miss either. Has played quite a lot when he's been fit and played very well at times. Not so much other times.

Mr Alan

A few misses?!?

2 out of our last 20 transfers have been good. That's ****ing horrendous.

The likes of Rafa was slated for having a 50/50 success rate & didn't have anywhere near the backing

Mr Alan

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Hasn't exactly been a hit but I wouldn't class him as a miss either. Has played quite a lot when he's been fit and played very well at times. Not so much other times.

If we sold him now, how much do you think we'd get?

BenEadir

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Just on wages issue, this is the wages spend in 2012/13

City - £233m
United - £183m
Chelsea - £179m
Arsenal - £154m
Liverpool £133m


Those differences are crazy. The difference between us an chelsea is roughly 6 extra Di Marias. People go on about us spending £100m+ in transfer this summer while City spend that amount extra on wages every year compared to us. Asking us to compete with these 5 other teams is a huge ask.

Spot on PLUS the reality is if we're offering the same wages to a player as any of the others on that list the player (Willian, Sanchez etc etc) will 9 times out of 10 prefer the other clubs for two reasons 1. They have huge financial clout and are likely to be able to buy success (City, United and Chelsea) and 2. They are in London which is quite simply where modern footballers (and their wives/girlfriends) want to be. With that reality we would actually need to be paying 15% to 20% MORE than the others in wages in order to attract the very best players and we simply don't have that financial clout and under FSG we never will unless FFP is actually implemented and we can organically grow the commercial side of the club which in fairness to them they are doing pretty well i.e. increased sponsorship deals, bigger stadium on the way etc.

JohnDaniels

Allen for the money we paid, wages he's on and his age would be near the top end of successful transfers in Rodgers time at the club. His overall package is peanuts in today's market.

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

It regularly buys quality players for starting 11 though. In this instance, it hasn't.

15m wouldn't buy you quality regularly in the current market.

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

If we sold him now, how much do you think we'd get?

Impossible to gauge. Borini was going for 14m or something, who'd have predicted that?

Mr Alan

NukaCola wrote: »

15m wouldn't buy you quality regularly in the current market.

There is an abundance of players who have moved in the transfer market for fees in the region of £15m that would go straight into our first team.

The delusion is strong in here today.

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

A few misses?!?

2 out of our last 20 transfers have been good. That's ****ing horrendous.

The likes of Rafa was slated for having a 50/50 success rate & didn't have anywhere near the backing

So, after 10 games you've written off all our signings this summer?

NukaCola

Mr Alan wrote: »

There is an abundance of players who have moved in the transfer market for fees in the region of £15m that would go straight into our first team.

The delusion is strong in here today.

And there is just as many that have failed for similar fee's. If 15m regularly buys you quality, it hasn't worked regularly for us.

Less of your snarky comments, I have been perfectly respectful of your opinions please dont talk down to me.

Chucky the tree

Mr Alan wrote: »

A few misses?!?

2 out of our last 20 transfers have been good. That's ****ing horrendous.

The likes of Rafa was slated for having a 50/50 success rate & didn't have anywhere near the backing

That's a joke right?

Agent Coulson

Rafa brought in 50/60 players and I'd say his hit rate was about 20/25%.

The last time we had a hit rate anywhere above that as a hit rate was when Kenny was manager in the 80's.

Lord Trollington

Glen Johnson (£90k) and Steven Gerrard (£140k) are both on almost a quarter a million a week between them. Both contracts up at the end of the year.

Would people renew one or both players contracts given their current form and contribution to the team?

Agent Coulson

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Glen Johnson (£90k) and Steven Gerrard (£140k) are both on almost a quarter a million a week between them. Both contracts up at the end of the year.

Would people renew one or both players contracts given their current form and contribution to the team?

If both were happy to take a 50% pay cut and rolling contracts I would.

I think Johnson will leave on a free in January myself.

I think Gerrard will sign a 1 year extension.

GotTheTshirt

Mr Alan wrote: »

A few misses?!?

2 out of our last 20 transfers have been good. That's ****ing horrendous.

The likes of Rafa was slated for having a 50/50 success rate & didn't have anywhere near the backing

All our summer signings are ****ing horrendous? Could we not ease up on the judgements for a couple of months at least?

Utopia Parkway

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Glen Johnson (£90k) and Steven Gerrard (£140k) are both on almost a quarter a million a week between them. Both contracts up at the end of the year.

Would people renew one or both players contracts given their current form and contribution to the team?

Johnson is almost certainly gone.

Gerrard should be allowed to retire as a Liverpool player so will get a 1 or 2 year deal. Maybe a rolling 1 year deal.

NukaCola

Lord Trollington wrote: »

Glen Johnson (£90k) and Steven Gerrard (£140k) are both on almost a quarter a million a week between them. Both contracts up at the end of the year.

Would people renew one or both players contracts given their current form and contribution to the team?

Not if it was my money.

However as a fan, it would be nice if SG sees out his career with us. Its not just sentimentality as SG is an integral part of BR's team, so he will get a contract anyway.

Johnson can be replaced, especially for the wages he's on. He gets a lot of stick, a lot of it justified, but I dont think he was ever worth that kind of wage in his whole career with us.

JohnDaniels

Chucky the tree wrote: »

That's a joke right?

His hit rate on players over £5m+ was very good. He did sign a lot of players but many of them were for next to nothing and he very rarely ever lost money on a player. His record in the transfer market on reflection is pretty great. The last window was extremely dodgy. He did though on a very tight budget fil our first team with top level international quality in every position. Reina, Aurelio, Arbelo, Agger, Alonso, Kuyt, Mascherano, Torres. I think it was hard for a lot of fans to see the wood for the trees at the time but looking back now knowing how hard it's to get it right even when you have money, he did spectacularly well with the resources he had available.

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