Irish people abroad who just won't shut up moaning about Ireland

I think a lot of people who emigrate feel the need to justify their decision by slagging off Ireland particularly if their new life is not so rosy. 'I may be only a toilet cleaner here in Sydney but I get more money than I would in crappy Tipperary' That kind of thing.

Others are just bitter about having to leave.

There's a lot wrong with this country but there's more good than bad.

fussyonion wrote: »

People who've emigrated pi** me off and I'm not sure why.

Whenever I hear of people who've gone off to Oz or New Zealand, found work, fell in love, had a child....and just deserted their families, friends and country..it just irks me.

I know a fella who moved to Oz back in 2005. He met someone, married her, had a baby and now he's always on Facebook saying he wishes one day he can get home so that his parents can meet his son before they die.

I find the whole thing so sad for the people left behind.

Maybe we could start an appeal for him

HalloweenJack wrote: »

It's great that there are some people who love living in Ireland, that's fine for you, but there are people who don't like living in Ireland and we should be allowed to explain why but when we do, it seems like people respond with a load of "Ireland's the best country ever", there's no discussion about the reasons. It's just dismissed.

I think it's how it's usually done though. I see a lot of "I love it! Best fooking place on the planet!" or "I hate it. It's an awful **** hole!" and I think people react to that.

I do agree, though, that some people can be a little tetchy with those who criticise aspects of it even in a reasonable fashion. Tbh though, I don't think many nationalities are open to hearing criticism about their country and I've never come across a nationality that doesn't get defensive (you live in Spain - me too - they really take don't any kind of criticism well from an outsider at all). I think many Irish see us emigrants as outsiders and exempt from having any say in the country because we emigrated. I've seen comments even on here how we're traitors and abandoned the country when things got rough (I left when things were never better). The fact that we can't even vote in local elections speaks volumes; we're one of the few countries where this is the case.


I'd a funny conversation over the Summer while I was on me holiers. Got talking to a man from Northern Africa who'd emigrated to France and had been there for years. He was asking me questions about Ireland and I was yapping away goodio believing I knew it all and he stopped me and said, "how would you know, though? You moved away 10 years ago" and the comment caught me off guard completely tbh. He didn't mean it in a spiteful way, just pointing out that times, they are-a-changin' and Ireland has no doubt changed a huge amount since I left in 2004. He said he found the same thing applied in his case as well; the country he'd left 25 years previously had moved on but not in his head.

Not sure what my point is. I suppose I'm less inclined to comment on Ireland at all now as I don't think I know the country very well anymore. Strange feeling.

RDM_83 again wrote: »

I do get a bit bitter about people who are away and bitch about here, but I think thats more a response from me (half my friends have left, and I miss having them around, ironically I may be gone myself soon), but its also a bit depressing when you go a bit deeper people say they no they have no place for them back here.

I missed this bit before I went off on one.

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

I'm aware of that, but I've seen it suggested from time to time.

I can see both sides of the debate but I don't agree with you. We're one of the few countries where this is the case.

It's a democratic right that has been taken away from us. I can't even vote in the country I live. The moment I left the country, my voice didn't count anymore...anywhere. Irish emigrants are completely disenfranchised from the moment they leave and that is unjust. Even Iranians, one of the most repressive states on the planet, allow their countries to vote from abroad.

Tbh, I'm not even speaking for myself, just using me as an example as I wouldn't vote in general elections anyway at this stage as I'm away 10 years and have more interest in the politics of Spain than there (and many feel like I do and wouldn't vote) but many do feel that connection and many intend on returning when things improve. Many people left the country out of necessity and many of us can't return for the foreseeable future because of the lack of opportunities (I include myself in the latter). Many people in Ireland truly believe that all emigrants had a choice to stay or go. Even if that choice was made, we're still Irish citizens and should still have the basic right to vote in our country of birth as stated in the constitution.

The fact is, it's not in the government's interest to allow us to vote, mainly because Irish citizens abroad can’t hold them accountable in the polls and that's why they've left the law as it is. Irish citizens abroad and their families at home do not usually view our situations collectively. I can see that attitude even on this thread. There's resentment among some quarters towards emigrants in Ireland that I haven't come across elsewhere; people believe we left for purely selfish reasons and they use young people in Australia on a temp visa as an example (many of those had to go too - just because they're enjoying themselves doesn't mean they're any less Irish or didn't have to leave - awful begrudgery from some quarters with regards to this - should they be suffering everyday to make their plight more legitimate?).

I'll be honest, it's a horrible feeling, particularly for those of us who love our country, are proud to be Irish and hope to return someday.

People talk about the resentment they feel of those who left and complain about the country (even those who make reasonable complaints - how DARE they!) but think how resentful many of us feel to be complained about and maligned and almost disliked by so many people there just because we left.

People argue that those who don't pay taxes into the system shouldn't vote and in that case, we should take that right away from those on the dole, those who stay at home to mind children and full time carers of sick relatives, students without part time jobs, recent graduates without jobs, the elderly etc. People wouldn't dream of doing that (understandably). Many Irish abroad DO pay taxes into the system anyway.

Another issue that concerns people is the potential swamping of the electoral system. The Votes for Irish Citizens Abroad Campaign (VICA) has this problem by proposing that the votes of citizens abroad for the Dáil should be managed through reserved constituencies, as in France and Italy. For example, in French general elections, one member of parliament represents French people voting in Britain, Ireland, Scandinavia and the Baltic countries and there are eleven other constituencies for the French abroad. Italy has four overseas constituencies: South America, North and Central America, Europe, and Australia, Asia, Oceania, Antarctica as one huge constituency.

If this was implemented in Ireland it would mean a certain number of TDs are designated as representing different regions of emigrants abroad entitled to vote (maybe three as proposed for the Irish Senate). This ring fences the diaspora vote, ensures the votes of residents are not swamped, and also gives the diaspora direct representation in the Dáil.

Perhaps putting a limit on the amount of time you can vote after leaving the country (8-10 years?) and forfeiting the right to vote once you take citizenship elsewhere (which often takes 8 years). This seems reasonable to me.

Fact of the matter is, it's a right that we should have as Irish citizens and it's unlawful to deny us of that. People are shocked here when I tell them but there isn't the same kind of resentment towards emigrants here.

No they don't. The vast majority of Irish people don't give emigrants, except those that are their friends and family, a second thought.

I didn't say the majority. I don't mean the majority. I was very careful to make a point of that:

There's resentment among some quarters towards emigrants in Ireland that I haven't come across elsewhere

We, along with Italy and Portugal, have the laxest citizenship by descent laws in the EU. Take this for an example. Paddy moves to Boston in the 60s. Meets an American, marries her and has four kids. One Irish emigrant, now we have six citizens. Those four kids grow up, get married and have two kids each. One Irish emigrant, eighteen citizens. Once they register their childrens birth with the FBR, this cycle can continue indefinitely. Allowing citizens abroad vote, would allow potentially millions of people who never set foot in Ireland, vote. Groups like the AOH would be all over it and become extremely influential. F*ck that.

As is the case in other countries and what I included in my post:

Perhaps putting a limit on the amount of time you can vote after leaving the country (8-10 years?) and forfeiting the right to vote once you take citizenship elsewhere (which often takes 8 years). This seems reasonable to me.

I would be happy to see only those born in Ireland having the right to vote in this case (emigration) and only up to 10 years after they leave or sooner if they've taken up citizenship elsewhere. "Paddy" lost his own right to vote along time ago. I already alluded to that in my post.

How? What law is being broken?

It has another meaning:

not morally right or conventional

Unconstitutional and undemocraic if that suits you better.

Well that's not a bad idea to limit the right to vote to let's say 10 years after leaving the place but the idea that someone who emigrated and has no intention of ever returning still having a say on who the Government here will be is unacceptable.

Fair enough.

Even the people who are gone say over 5 years, would they even know who they are voting for?

Course they would! You can follow what's going on in Ireland without living there. Those who'd vote would have enough interest to find out who they're voting for...like anyone living in the country (actually, as Bluewolf pointed out, that isn't always the case, even for those who live there).

Would they do any research on the policies of the canidate they are voting in and realise how it would affect the people living and working here in Ireland ?

Those policies also affect the future of the country I'm from. It affects the country many were forced to leave and would return to if things improved or will return to. Next year you're voting in a referendum that won't have a direct effect on you..but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed vote in that election. You're an Irish citizen and in turn, you have the right to vote like any other Irish citizen. I'm an Irish citizen too...but I can't vote anywhere.

I also suggested this:

Another issue that concerns people is the potential swamping of the electoral system. The Votes for Irish Citizens Abroad Campaign (VICA) has this problem by proposing that the votes of citizens abroad for the Dáil should be managed through reserved constituencies, as in France and Italy. For example, in French general elections, one member of parliament represents French people voting in Britain, Ireland, Scandinavia and the Baltic countries and there are eleven other constituencies for the French abroad. Italy has four overseas constituencies: South America, North and Central America, Europe, and Australia, Asia, Oceania, Antarctica as one huge constituency.

If this was implemented in Ireland it would mean a certain number of TDs are designated as representing different regions of emigrants abroad entitled to vote (maybe three as proposed for the Irish Senate). This ring fences the diaspora vote, ensures the votes of residents are not swamped, and also gives the diaspora direct representation in the Dáil.

bluewolf wrote: »

This criterion should be applied to those resident here also :pac:

Literally any citizen born in Ireland over the age of 18 and who hasn't emigrated, can vote. Criminals can vote in Ireland but a law abiding citizen who left his country because he couldn't find work, can't. Sound.

For elections in the Republic of Ireland, there is no disenfranchisement based on criminal conviction, and prisoners remain on the electoral register at their pre-imprisonment address