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Irish people abroad who just won't shut up moaning about Ireland

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    I posted a link to a local news story in Galway on Facebook with a comment on it about 3 weeks after I moved to the US. The response was a long the lines of well, at least here we don't *insert a generalization about America*

    In fairness there's about 5 or 6 of my friends on Facebook that are at that craic so it's not everybody but there's some that see you as an outsider the minute you leave.

    I've come to appreciate some things about Ireland that I never appreciated before and have started to dislike some things I had felt indifferent about before. The grass is always greener....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,522 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    What do you expect OP, if some one move abroad to a country that actually functions normally it tends to open ones eyes about how Ireland really operates. It's not all bad but it's cringe worthy at times reading about Ireland from a different perspective. I would imagine the same could be said about most places though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭The Aussie


    I take up the nationality of the country i am currently in. For example i was in France not so long ago so i considered myself French for a few weeks. All my Facebook status updates were in French, all my texts were in French etc etc.

    Well played Sir...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,869 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    Areyouwell wrote: »
    Had to leave Ireland to pursue my education and profession. Came back over qualified and highly skilled for said profession. Barely two weeks in the job and I was told by a colleague that I will always be viewed as an outsider (This was in Dublin btw). The fact the everybody loved me, seemed to make me more of a threat to senior management. One of these managers had spent an internship several years earlier in the UK with me, where I had mentored and trained them. Now they were looking down their nose at me. I realised then that who you know, not what you know will never die in Ireland. It's too small, too parochial for that to ever change. Sadly I left Ireland again because of the professional small mindedness and cliques. And thankfully, I have now reached the pinnacle of my profession. I have been rewarded for my skill and ability. Rather than where I was from, or what my Father worked at. So nobody's going to tell me I have no right to moan about Ireland, especially since I was driven out of it and would still be there thanks to a shower of c**ts.

    I always find it hard to believe these totally unsubstantiatable online stories like reaching the "pinnacle" of your profession. They're never modest or simply make a step up, its always "I was written off in Ireland, but I moved abroad and now a month later I'm Commander in Chief of the Universe, typical Irish begrudgery"

    They remind me of young lads with their "Yeah I might get rejected here all the time, but I got with this utter stunning girl on holiday....far far away....with no name...and I also lost her number, but she was a pure 10/10 I swear"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 472 ✭✭folbotcar


    I think a lot of people who emigrate feel the need to justify their decision by slagging off Ireland particularly if their new life is not so rosy. 'I may be only a toilet cleaner here in Sydney but I get more money than I would in crappy Tipperary' That kind of thing.

    Others are just bitter about having to leave.

    There's a lot wrong with this country but there's more good than bad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,946 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    What I find worse is Irish people moving abroad and constantly whinging about where they've moved to and the locals.

    Ffs. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,821 ✭✭✭fussyonion


    People who've emigrated pi** me off and I'm not sure why.

    Whenever I hear of people who've gone off to Oz or New Zealand, found work, fell in love, had a child....and just deserted their families, friends and country..it just irks me.

    I know a fella who moved to Oz back in 2005. He met someone, married her, had a baby and now he's always on Facebook saying he wishes one day he can get home so that his parents can meet his son before they die.

    I find the whole thing so sad for the people left behind.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,361 ✭✭✭mojesius


    RonanP77 wrote: »
    I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I like getting away every now and then but my favourite bit of every trip I've ever been on is that first view of Ireland as you fly back in.

    Nothing like the Ryanair 20 minute walk of shame through T1 arrivals on a dark, dank Dublin evening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    I always find it hard to believe these totally unsubstantiatable online stories like reaching the "pinnacle" of your profession. They're never modest or simply make a step up, its always "I was written off in Ireland, but I moved abroad and now a month later I'm Commander in Chief of the Universe, typical Irish begrudgery"

    Tell me then, what if anything, that we post on this site is actually or has been substantiated? Or are you the resident Master of Verification here who decides this?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭Squeedily Spooch


    fussyonion wrote: »
    People who've emigrated pi** me off and I'm not sure why.

    Whenever I hear of people who've gone off to Oz or New Zealand, found work, fell in love, had a child....and just deserted their families, friends and country..it just irks me.

    I know a fella who moved to Oz back in 2005. He met someone, married her, had a baby and now he's always on Facebook saying he wishes one day he can get home so that his parents can meet his son before they die.

    I find the whole thing so sad for the people left behind.

    That's just Irish begrudgery. Sure what do you care if someone leaves and finds happiness? Ireland is a TINY country there's a lot more to the world than living on an island a few hours drive wide.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,916 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    kneemos wrote: »
    Ireland is full of Irish.

    The problem with Ireland is that it's full of Irish.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    What I find worse is Irish people moving abroad and constantly whinging about where they've moved to and the locals.

    Ffs. :rolleyes:

    You get that alright but it's not only the Irish at it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 117 ✭✭Gordon Minard


    You'll find that they're kids on their first real break away from home . . .

    Wait until they have kids and they will be dying to come back!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭jacksie66


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    I think they are missing home, and this is why they give out.

    Welcome home to your beautiful country...



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,692 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Areyouwell wrote: »
    Ah bless, trying to feel better about yourselves. As much as I wanted to stay in Ireland, I probably should be grateful for the the thick, insular, small minded ****'s I used to work with. Only for them, I wouldn't have left and I wouldn't be as totally minted as I am today. I love my homeland, there's no more beautiful country in the world and I always visit family & friends 6-7 times a year. But it's the few inbred, insular types and their incestuous cliques that will always have a strangled hold on some professions.

    Do you work on the cutting edge of German finance?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,910 ✭✭✭OneArt


    When I finally got out of Ireland I stopped moaning about it.

    If people ask me what it's like, I'll mostly say positive things. Though if someone asks why I left, I will tell them why.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭greeno


    I love ireland always did and will return one day. I am living in the usa just over a year and I'm enjoying the change of scenery and the new opportunities. I find the complete opposite of the OP, been home twice since I left and the moaning of the people at home is draining. Water charges, property tax, rent prices bla bla bla. People here don't moan they just get on with it and it's refreshing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭Buona Fortuna


    fussyonion wrote: »
    People who've emigrated pi** me off and I'm not sure why.

    Whenever I hear of people who've gone off to Oz or New Zealand, found work, fell in love, had a child....and just deserted their families, friends and country..it just irks me.

    I know a fella who moved to Oz back in 2005. He met someone, married her, had a baby and now he's always on Facebook saying he wishes one day he can get home so that his parents can meet his son before they die.

    I find the whole thing so sad for the people left behind.

    Maybe we could start an appeal for him :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,188 ✭✭✭DoYouEvenLift


    Ireland would be perfect to me if there were no knackers and travellers...and better weather


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,041 ✭✭✭who the fug


    Oranage2 wrote: »
    I haven't been in Ireland in two years, amn't I deadly!

    Come back when you have 25 years under your belt


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,790 ✭✭✭Linoge


    Areyouwell wrote: »
    Ah bless, trying to feel better about yourselves. As much as I wanted to stay in Ireland, I probably should be grateful for the the thick, insular, small minded ****'s I used to work with. Only for them, I wouldn't have left and I wouldn't be as totally minted as I am today. I love my homeland, there's no more beautiful country in the world and I always visit family & friends 6-7 times a year. But it's the few inbred, insular types and their incestuous cliques that will always have a strangled hold on some professions.

    In fairness, I don't know what industry you work in, but in my experience, if you work hard you get rewarded. Being completely honest, you came across with a lot of attitude in your post. If you were bringing that same attitude to work I would not be surprised that you would never reach the pinnacle of your profession here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,873 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Areyouwell wrote: »
    Ah bless, trying to feel better about yourselves. As much as I wanted to stay in Ireland, I probably should be grateful for the the thick, insular, small minded ****'s I used to work with. Only for them, I wouldn't have left and I wouldn't be as totally minted as I am today

    Success.

    Brings out the best in some. Not you though. Your scorn, your attitude, your language and your fury, not good. Minted you may be, I'd rather be comfortable and happy. Enjoy. (Or try and enjoy)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,228 ✭✭✭mrsbyrne


    Areyouwell wrote: »
    Ah bless, trying to feel better about yourselves. As much as I wanted to stay in Ireland, I probably should be grateful for the the thick, insular, small minded ****'s I used to work with. Only for them, I wouldn't have left and I wouldn't be as totally minted as I am today. I love my homeland, there's no more beautiful country in the world and I always visit family & friends 6-7 times a year. But it's the few inbred, insular types and their incestuous cliques that will always have a strangled hold on some professions.

    Your bitterness is literally going to corrode your soul. Honestly. Just forget about it and concentrate on your current life.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,145 ✭✭✭Mister Vain


    The only reason I emigrated was because I was fed up with the Irish drinking culture. Other than that its a great place.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,316 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    RonanP77 wrote: »
    I wouldn't want to live anywhere else. I like getting away every now and then but my favourite bit of every trip I've ever been on is that first view of Ireland as you fly back in.

    I like it too, but only because I hate flying and at that point it's nearly over. Normally I'm thinking "Oh look, it's raining. Who would have expected it"



    There are many things about Ireland that suck. Although there are many good things here there's many utterly terrible things too. Our public transport is a fcuking shambles for a start. I'd prefer to listen to someone who had an actual point to make rather than those tossers who think it's so fcuking perfect here. they're the reason that nothing ever gets done.


  • Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    You don't have to leave to hear irish people moaning about Ireland.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,906 ✭✭✭Streetwalker


    In fairness they are right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭The Aussie


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    What I find worse is Irish people moving abroad and constantly whinging about where they've moved to and the locals.

    Ffs. :rolleyes:

    I find this a classic myself, sitting in a foreign country hating the place but doing nothing to remedy the situation, I like to think of them as weak gutted fools who don't want to go home incase they look stupid, but that is exactly what they are, Stupid...

    Or the ones who stay in a country for the money but despise where they are, putting a price tag on happiness, idiots as well.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 145 ✭✭SameDiff


    daveyeh wrote: »
    I'm sick of reading online comments from Irish people who have moved abroad and just moan about Ireland.

    "It's a ****hole"
    "I hate that place"
    "Thank god I left that miserable dump"
    etc.
    etc.

    You didn't like living here, so you pissed off to start a new life. So, shut the **** up and get on with enjoying your new life you miserable arsehole.

    Rant over.

    :)

    It's only when you leave Ireland you realise what a dump it is and how badly you've been let down all your life.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    I don't get the logic some people seem to have here: If you leave Ireland, you can't bitch about it and you can't bitch about the new place either. :confused: WTF??? Is this a dictatorship? Since when can't we complain?

    Granted, I'm aware there are some Irish people who seem to spend all their time bitching about Ireland, but I've also met some Americans who bitch about America all the time and Spaniards who bitch about Spain all the time. It's those particular people that are the problem. They'll bitch about anything and everything.

    I'd be similar to a previous poster, I don't bitch about Ireland but if you ask me why I left and don't want to return, I'll tell you why.

    I don't hate Ireland, there's plenty I love about it, but I hated living there. At the same time, I love living in Spain and I feel like I fit in better here than I ever did back home.

    Spain is far from perfect and I do bitch about stuff here but no place is perfect and I still prefer living here than back home.

    It's great that there are some people who love living in Ireland, that's fine for you, but there are people who don't like living in Ireland and we should be allowed to explain why but when we do, it seems like people respond with a load of "Ireland's the best country ever", there's no discussion about the reasons. It's just dismissed.

    FWIW, I used to live in the Czech Republic. I didn't like it and left after a year. A bit later, I was talking to one of my friends from there and she asked if I'd ever go back. I said no and explained why. Her reaction was identical to some of those here. She couldn't understand that I didn't like the Czech Republic but she refused to discuss or acknowledge my gripes with the place.

    I would guess that this mindset of believing your country is perfect and not being able to understand or acknowledge that some people might not like it is tied to an inferiority complex, as I've only encountered it in Irish or Czech people.

    I will point out one thing that strikes me as a strictly Irish thing: I'm sick of people asking me when I'm coming back and when I tell them I don't intend to, I get told I'll grow out of it. Again, no discussion of why or no attempt to even convince me that I should do it, I just get told I'll grow out of it.

    I honestly don't know if I'll ever go back to living in Ireland but it's not something I plan on. However, whenever I say this, I'm met with "You'll be back" as if they know my life better than I do. It's a horribly patronising and insulting trait and that is something that only Irish people have ever said to me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    I was told one day by a Polish fella I worked with that this was a useless country, that pisses me off a lot more than the Irish who have moved somewhere else complaining because at least I can't hear them complaining.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    It's great that there are some people who love living in Ireland, that's fine for you, but there are people who don't like living in Ireland and we should be allowed to explain why but when we do, it seems like people respond with a load of "Ireland's the best country ever", there's no discussion about the reasons. It's just dismissed.

    I think it's how it's usually done though. I see a lot of "I love it! Best fooking place on the planet!" or "I hate it. It's an awful **** hole!" and I think people react to that.

    I do agree, though, that some people can be a little tetchy with those who criticise aspects of it even in a reasonable fashion. Tbh though, I don't think many nationalities are open to hearing criticism about their country and I've never come across a nationality that doesn't get defensive (you live in Spain - me too - they really take don't any kind of criticism well from an outsider at all). I think many Irish see us emigrants as outsiders and exempt from having any say in the country because we emigrated. I've seen comments even on here how we're traitors and abandoned the country when things got rough (I left when things were never better). The fact that we can't even vote in local elections speaks volumes; we're one of the few countries where this is the case.


    I'd a funny conversation over the Summer while I was on me holiers. Got talking to a man from Northern Africa who'd emigrated to France and had been there for years. He was asking me questions about Ireland and I was yapping away goodio believing I knew it all and he stopped me and said, "how would you know, though? You moved away 10 years ago" and the comment caught me off guard completely tbh. He didn't mean it in a spiteful way, just pointing out that times, they are-a-changin' and Ireland has no doubt changed a huge amount since I left in 2004. He said he found the same thing applied in his case as well; the country he'd left 25 years previously had moved on but not in his head.

    Not sure what my point is. I suppose I'm less inclined to comment on Ireland at all now as I don't think I know the country very well anymore. Strange feeling.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    The fact that in nearly every job I have had I have worked with a lot of other Europeans means I do think for all its faults Ireland can't be that bad, today the Spanish guy was joking about the idea of trying to work over there in our sector. If Ireland genuinely was the repressive ****-hole that some people talk about we just wouldn't have the long term immigration we have where people are here for 5+ years and building a life and raising kids.
    I do get a bit bitter about people who are away and bitch about here, but I think thats more a response from me (half my friends have left, and I miss having them around, ironically I may be gone myself soon), but its also a bit depressing when you go a bit deeper people say they no they have no place for them back here.
    I think there is a psychological baggage attached to migration in Ireland that may not be quiet so present in other countries we have generation after generation that where so many people have left , AFAIK unique in that we now have a lower population than we did in 1840, I think the attitude of "fcuk off you've left" is sort of understandable its even built into our national mythology with the Wild Geese, if you want the place to change stay and make it better, I know that sounds very harsh but its understandable if you think about how many people have left and never returned over the years.
    Still its produced some great sad songs :)



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    I do get a bit bitter about people who are away and bitch about here, but I think thats more a response from me (half my friends have left, and I miss having them around, ironically I may be gone myself soon), but its also a bit depressing when you go a bit deeper people say they no they have no place for them back here.

    I missed this bit before I went off on one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,509 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    You find people who live abroad and complain about Ireland to their Irish friends but are full of praise for the place and how back home is better to the natives.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    TBH I don't see why Irish people who have moved to another country should get to vote in Elections that are held here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭NSAman


    TBH I don't see why Irish people who have moved to another country should get to vote in Elections that are held here.

    Err we don't..;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    NSAman wrote: »
    Err we don't..;)

    I'm aware of that, but I've seen it suggested from time to time.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,413 ✭✭✭chupacabra


    I dont miss Ireland. I miss Kerry.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    I'm aware of that, but I've seen it suggested from time to time.

    I can see both sides of the debate but I don't agree with you. We're one of the few countries where this is the case.

    It's a democratic right that has been taken away from us. I can't even vote in the country I live. The moment I left the country, my voice didn't count anymore...anywhere. Irish emigrants are completely disenfranchised from the moment they leave and that is unjust. Even Iranians, one of the most repressive states on the planet, allow their countries to vote from abroad.

    Tbh, I'm not even speaking for myself, just using me as an example as I wouldn't vote in general elections anyway at this stage as I'm away 10 years and have more interest in the politics of Spain than there (and many feel like I do and wouldn't vote) but many do feel that connection and many intend on returning when things improve. Many people left the country out of necessity and many of us can't return for the foreseeable future because of the lack of opportunities (I include myself in the latter). Many people in Ireland truly believe that all emigrants had a choice to stay or go. Even if that choice was made, we're still Irish citizens and should still have the basic right to vote in our country of birth as stated in the constitution.

    The fact is, it's not in the government's interest to allow us to vote, mainly because Irish citizens abroad can’t hold them accountable in the polls and that's why they've left the law as it is. Irish citizens abroad and their families at home do not usually view our situations collectively. I can see that attitude even on this thread. There's resentment among some quarters towards emigrants in Ireland that I haven't come across elsewhere; people believe we left for purely selfish reasons and they use young people in Australia on a temp visa as an example (many of those had to go too - just because they're enjoying themselves doesn't mean they're any less Irish or didn't have to leave - awful begrudgery from some quarters with regards to this - should they be suffering everyday to make their plight more legitimate?).

    I'll be honest, it's a horrible feeling, particularly for those of us who love our country, are proud to be Irish and hope to return someday.

    People talk about the resentment they feel of those who left and complain about the country (even those who make reasonable complaints - how DARE they!) but think how resentful many of us feel to be complained about and maligned and almost disliked by so many people there just because we left.

    People argue that those who don't pay taxes into the system shouldn't vote and in that case, we should take that right away from those on the dole, those who stay at home to mind children and full time carers of sick relatives, students without part time jobs, recent graduates without jobs, the elderly etc. People wouldn't dream of doing that (understandably). Many Irish abroad DO pay taxes into the system anyway.

    Another issue that concerns people is the potential swamping of the electoral system. The Votes for Irish Citizens Abroad Campaign (VICA) has this problem by proposing that the votes of citizens abroad for the Dáil should be managed through reserved constituencies, as in France and Italy. For example, in French general elections, one member of parliament represents French people voting in Britain, Ireland, Scandinavia and the Baltic countries and there are eleven other constituencies for the French abroad. Italy has four overseas constituencies: South America, North and Central America, Europe, and Australia, Asia, Oceania, Antarctica as one huge constituency.

    If this was implemented in Ireland it would mean a certain number of TDs are designated as representing different regions of emigrants abroad entitled to vote (maybe three as proposed for the Irish Senate). This ring fences the diaspora vote, ensures the votes of residents are not swamped, and also gives the diaspora direct representation in the Dáil.

    Perhaps putting a limit on the amount of time you can vote after leaving the country (8-10 years?) and forfeiting the right to vote once you take citizenship elsewhere (which often takes 8 years). This seems reasonable to me.

    Fact of the matter is, it's a right that we should have as Irish citizens and it's unlawful to deny us of that. People are shocked here when I tell them but there isn't the same kind of resentment towards emigrants here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    People talk about the resentment they feel of those who left 

    No they don't. The vast majority of Irish people don't give emigrants, except those that are their friends and family, a second thought.
    Another issue that concerns people is the potential swamping of the electoral system. 

    We, along with Italy and Portugal, have the laxest citizenship by descent laws in the EU. Take this for an example. Paddy moves to Boston in the 60s. Meets an American, marries her and has four kids. One Irish emigrant, now we have six citizens. Those four kids grow up, get married and have two kids each. One Irish emigrant, eighteen citizens. Once they register their childrens birth with the FBR, this cycle can continue indefinitely. Allowing citizens abroad vote, would allow potentially millions of people who never set foot in Ireland, vote. Groups like the AOH would be all over it and become extremely influential. F*ck that.
    it's unlawful to deny us of that.

    How? What law is being broken?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    No they don't. The vast majority of Irish people don't give emigrants, except those that are their friends and family, a second thought.


    I didn't say the majority. I don't mean the majority. I was very careful to make a point of that:
    There's resentment among some quarters towards emigrants in Ireland that I haven't come across elsewhere
    We, along with Italy and Portugal, have the laxest citizenship by descent laws in the EU. Take this for an example. Paddy moves to Boston in the 60s. Meets an American, marries her and has four kids. One Irish emigrant, now we have six citizens. Those four kids grow up, get married and have two kids each. One Irish emigrant, eighteen citizens. Once they register their childrens birth with the FBR, this cycle can continue indefinitely. Allowing citizens abroad vote, would allow potentially millions of people who never set foot in Ireland, vote. Groups like the AOH would be all over it and become extremely influential. F*ck that.

    As is the case in other countries and what I included in my post:
    Perhaps putting a limit on the amount of time you can vote after leaving the country (8-10 years?) and forfeiting the right to vote once you take citizenship elsewhere (which often takes 8 years). This seems reasonable to me.

    I would be happy to see only those born in Ireland having the right to vote in this case (emigration) and only up to 10 years after they leave or sooner if they've taken up citizenship elsewhere. "Paddy" lost his own right to vote along time ago. I already alluded to that in my post.


    How? What law is being broken?

    It has another meaning:
    not morally right or conventional

    Unconstitutional and undemocraic if that suits you better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Unconstitutional and undemocraic if that suits you better.

    How is this unconstitutional?
    I would be happy to see only those born in Ireland having the right to vote in this case (emigration) 

    But this not? Which would effectively be creating two tiers of citizenship.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,669 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Well that's not a bad idea to limit the right to vote to let's say 10 years after leaving the place but the idea that someone who emigrated and has no intention of ever returning still having a say on who the Government here will be is unacceptable.

    Even the people who are gone say over 5 years, would they even know who they are voting for?

    Would they do any research on the policies of the canidate they are voting in and realise how it would affect the people living and working here in Ireland ?


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  • Posts: 0 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Blaire Noisy Bellboy



    Would they do any research on the policies of the canidate they are voting in and realise how it would affect the people living and working here in Ireland ?

    This criterion should be applied to those resident here also :pac:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    Well that's not a bad idea to limit the right to vote to let's say 10 years after leaving the place but the idea that someone who emigrated and has no intention of ever returning still having a say on who the Government here will be is unacceptable.

    Fair enough.
    Even the people who are gone say over 5 years, would they even know who they are voting for?

    Course they would! You can follow what's going on in Ireland without living there. Those who'd vote would have enough interest to find out who they're voting for...like anyone living in the country (actually, as Bluewolf pointed out, that isn't always the case, even for those who live there).

    Would they do any research on the policies of the canidate they are voting in and realise how it would affect the people living and working here in Ireland ?

    Those policies also affect the future of the country I'm from. It affects the country many were forced to leave and would return to if things improved or will return to. Next year you're voting in a referendum that won't have a direct effect on you..but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed vote in that election. You're an Irish citizen and in turn, you have the right to vote like any other Irish citizen. I'm an Irish citizen too...but I can't vote anywhere.

    I also suggested this:
    Another issue that concerns people is the potential swamping of the electoral system. The Votes for Irish Citizens Abroad Campaign (VICA) has this problem by proposing that the votes of citizens abroad for the Dáil should be managed through reserved constituencies, as in France and Italy. For example, in French general elections, one member of parliament represents French people voting in Britain, Ireland, Scandinavia and the Baltic countries and there are eleven other constituencies for the French abroad. Italy has four overseas constituencies: South America, North and Central America, Europe, and Australia, Asia, Oceania, Antarctica as one huge constituency.

    If this was implemented in Ireland it would mean a certain number of TDs are designated as representing different regions of emigrants abroad entitled to vote (maybe three as proposed for the Irish Senate). This ring fences the diaspora vote, ensures the votes of residents are not swamped, and also gives the diaspora direct representation in the Dáil.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    How is this unconstitutional?

    Anything that is undemocratic, like this law, is unconstititonal:
    National sovereignty: The constitution asserts the "inalienable, indefeasible, and sovereign right" of the Irish people to self-determination (Article 1). The state is declared to be "sovereign, independent, [and] democratic" (Article 5).

    But this not? Which would effectively be creating two tiers of citizenship.

    It's far from ideal but it would allow citizens to have a voice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,086 ✭✭✭TheBeardedLady


    bluewolf wrote: »
    This criterion should be applied to those resident here also :pac:

    Literally any citizen born in Ireland over the age of 18 and who hasn't emigrated, can vote. Criminals can vote in Ireland but a law abiding citizen who left his country because he couldn't find work, can't. Sound.
    For elections in the Republic of Ireland, there is no disenfranchisement based on criminal conviction, and prisoners remain on the electoral register at their pre-imprisonment address


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    I don't know I've argued about this before with yourself but its not hard to compare Ireland to an equivalent European country. As I pointed out in my post have a unique situation in relation to the sheer number of migrants for such a long period.

    It also dodges the question of Northern Ireland another situation that is rather unique, I'm an Irish citizen born on the Island of Ireland until I moved down South I lived literally 3 miles from the border yet until i lived in the Republic I was completely unable to influence the direction of the state even though its positions could have massive impacts. Thats at least 360,000 people using a quick calculation of Irish passport holders in NI and the number who consider themselves "Irish" could be far higher.

    While it may seem unfair to you, in one sense the current system is a much fairer in relation to how the state views its citizens, it treats us all equally badly, otherwise your relegating a huge number of citizens to a lower status because they weren't born in the "right" part of Ireland (even post 1999 this fact is recognized but particularly before hand with the strongly worded articles 2 + 3)

    That said the list idea do seem have its merits and I don't see why it couldn't be quickly and uncontroversially rolled out for the Senate (which is massively undemocratic anyway, I think I still have two votes in it :pac: )


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