Policing Budget Chit Chat

Homer01 · 30-09-2014 4:26pm #1

This seems like a good place to contain all the rumours and developments on the recruitment budget; will they won't they?

It will help keep the recruitment stage threads nice and clean

I know this was posted elsewhere but is pretty big news today (30/09/14)
http://www.psni.police.uk/termination_of_contracts_for_associate_workers_

Sthm · 01-10-2014 4:48pm

Not the best of news:

http://m.u.tv/news/Cuts-will-leave-PSNI-unrecognisable/5aa97e48-4277-4f37-9def-2f0e3223b9af

Seems January's campaign may be on hold at the moment.

ptsb1 · 01-10-2014 6:02pm

To be honest it is not looking good for anyone (including me) that is currently waiting on the call. It is very disheartening at this stage for this to come about but there is very little we can do about it.

.S. · 01-10-2014 6:20pm

I'm worried. I hate being negative but if further job losses are inevitable I can't see all the people waiting / in the 2014 campaign getting through. I'd love to say we're safe and it's only the jan campaign being stopped but... I can't see how they can do the 2014 campaign through now. Be interesting what he says at the policing board meeting tomorrow.

DesertCreat_15 · 01-10-2014 6:45pm

ptsb1 wrote: »

To be honest it is not looking good for anyone (including me) that is currently waiting on the call. It is very disheartening at this stage for this to come about but there is very little we can do about it.

I have a feeling that 1309 campaign should be okay. If anything it will be 2014 campaign that would be hit, i dont think they can afford to lose more officers.

Stopping recruitment will cost them more in the long run.

marfrig2014 · 01-10-2014 6:50pm

Policing board tomorrow should tell a tale. But I'm not optimistic. Massive cuts right away needed. Hamilton has shown he will make tough decisions.

I think next step will be freeze on intakes of my campaign and the current one. Typical. 2 marks off getting a call.

Mop a top · 01-10-2014 7:14pm

lol don't even start. I should have been in months ago if it wasn't for the decking vetting grrrrr I seriously hope they continue with the 2013 campaign. I'll be gutted as I'm sure an awful lot of people will be

Sthm · 01-10-2014 7:44pm

Mr Hamilton said 7,000 officers was the level agreed between police, the PSNI’s oversight body – the Policing Board – and the Department of Justice as the number needed to maintain service delivery.

“We have a recruitment programme in place to get us up toward that 7,000,” he said.

“We are still working through the detail but the level of recruitment will be significantly reduced.

“The third recruitment campaign that was due to start in the next financial year will be stopped and we will not be getting anywhere towards the 7,000 officers that I believe that I need.”

Source: http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/hamilton-cuts-make-more-police-job-losses-inevitable-1-6332317

I guess we'll find out tomorrow what's planned for recruitment.

monty46 · 01-10-2014 10:58pm

Cant link article as it says im a new member, but on bbc northern ireland website there is a news article saying that unionists and the orange order are planning rallies in relation to parades disputes. Surely something like that would be a disaster for the police at the moment.

DesertCreat_15 · 02-10-2014 12:10am

I imagine the chief constable would have also mentioned the other campaigns and not just 3rd one if he planned to cull them!

walkman2302 · 02-10-2014 2:39am

It is a real shame that these events are happening at the moment, I think the executive need to seriously get a grip of things before it becomes too late!!!

CDizzle · 02-10-2014 7:54am

The 1309 campaign has already been budgeted for surely? It should be unaffected, would make no sense to stop it now so near to completion. Not sure how the current campaign stands though

Mop a top · 02-10-2014 8:10am

Personally I think the Jan campaign will be the only casualty. It should be politicians wages tbh. Wouldn't make financial sense to cut a campaign when they need the numbers. Fair enough the mght scale back the numbers from 1405 but I'd imagine that CDizzle is right and the 1309 will continue until the 378 are in.

HighburyLad · 02-10-2014 8:52am

All we can do is wait until this afternoon when the policing board takes meeting with the chief con and his senior officers. I know for a fact it's got to the point were it is costing more not to recruit the levels they want, and that it has become cost effective to recruit, it is critical as we speak, I know that by March 2015 there is a large amount to retire also.

Again nothing we can do at all if recruitment is affected, I personally think campaign 1 will be fine and recruitment will proceed to get the max 378, campaign 2 though I am hesitant and I am in campaign 2, having done my assessment yesterday, I pray it is unaffected but time will tell. At this point I'm more anxious about this afternoon than I was doing my assessment.

Homer01 · 02-10-2014 9:36am

On Nolan now!

DesertCreat_15 · 02-10-2014 10:27am

Homer01 wrote: »

On Nolan now!

Good man! I'll keep an ear out for ya! lol

Keep me up to scratch with the Goss, can't get listening to it.

Sthm · 02-10-2014 1:14pm

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/cuts-that-will-make-psni-unrecognisable-laid-bare-30631185.html

No mention of cessation of recruitment in this article but we'll find out for sure later this afternoon.

didierdrogba · 02-10-2014 1:27pm

I'd imagine that the budget cuts relate directly to the new tax year and as such 1309 will be unaffected as funding was agreed for this long ago

Sthm · 02-10-2014 1:37pm

Unrelated to budget cuts, but Terry Spence also just announced his retirement.

https://www.policefed-ni.org.uk/News/2014/October/PFNI-chairman-announces-decision-to-retire.aspx

DesertCreat_15 · 02-10-2014 2:54pm

Livestream of policing board meeting at the link below (if you can get a sneaky bit of viewing in at work) :cool:

Meeting starts at 1500hrs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_bl0VvGDUE

Sthm · 02-10-2014 3:17pm

Got away from my desk for a bit and heard the Chief Con state that both campaigns will still continue but that less numbers will be taken on from campaign two.

DesertCreat_15 · 02-10-2014 3:23pm

Campaign 2 will be "significantly reduced" from the original 378 advertised

Sthm · 02-10-2014 3:35pm

The report:

http://www.psni.police.uk/pr_report_of_the_chief_constable_to_the_northern_ireland_policing_board_021014

HUMAN RESOURCES UPDATE

Police Recruitment Slowed and Stopped
I remain of the view that 6963 officers are required to remain effective and ensure capacity to respond to the significant challenges presented by policing in a post conflict society, as was laid out in the Review of Resilience and Capability 2013.

However, the level of cuts now being imposed means that 6963 is no longer affordable. This has a direct impact on the current programme of recruitment.

Competition two, which is currently running, will continue as the majority of the budgeted spend has already been invested. The intake of new officers will however be substantially slower. The plans for a third recruitment competition have been stopped.

PSNI have a strategic responsibility to ensure the protection of policing in the future and it is essential that the issue of police recruitment is kept strictly under review.

With recruitment plans significantly reduced, it is anticipated that Police officer headcount will decline over the next three years through retirements.

Sthm · 02-10-2014 4:44pm

Apologies if I'm wrong when I wrote about less being taken, guys. The actual report suggests intakes just being substantially slower.

Could have sworn I heard less being mentioned but I was having a sneaky watch whilst in work, so not exactly 100% listening.

marfrig2014 · 02-10-2014 4:51pm

He did say substantially less for campaign 2 did he not?

What does it mean for campaign 1 though? Has he decided it's reached capacity already?

DesertCreat_15 · 02-10-2014 4:53pm

You heard right, he deviated a bit from his speech!

DesertCreat_15 · 02-10-2014 4:53pm

marfrig2014 wrote: »

He did say substantially less for campaign 2 did he not?

What does it mean for campaign 1 though? Has he decided it's reached capacity already?

Campaign 1 is going ahead, only 187 positions filled

VES86 · 02-10-2014 4:58pm

http://www.psni.police.uk/pr_report_of_the_chief_constable_to_the_northern_ireland_policing_board_021014

a lot can change in a month. This months report is a far from positive read

Homer01 · 02-10-2014 5:16pm

It sounds as if the job itself has changed. Join the police, work in an office

This country is rapidly heading down the drain!

didierdrogba · 02-10-2014 6:28pm

Just to confirm,campaign 2 refers to the one which is at the assessment centre stage yes?

LadyVernal · 02-10-2014 6:33pm

didierdrogba wrote: »

Just to confirm,campaign 2 refers to the one which is at the assessment centre stage yes?

yes it does

Homer01 · 02-10-2014 6:41pm

didierdrogba wrote: »

Just to confirm,campaign 2 refers to the one which is at the assessment centre stage yes?

Yes; Campaign 1 aka 1309 (September 2013) Campaign 2 aka 1405 (May 2014)

Suzuka · 06-10-2014 12:55pm

All the more reason to try and score as high as possible at the AC! not that I can since I've done mine already

lol

Rj408 · 06-10-2014 8:01pm

Does anyone have any intel on the actual numbers they are taking from campaign 2? Real sucker punch that the recruitment will be scaled back and stopped due to budget cuts, I hope the politicians can sort this out and things will be back to normal soon.

Its just about started again after what 4(?) years of nothing and now they are going to stop again? I mean none of us are getting any younger and those of us who have been waiting for this a number of years when they were not recruiting its even more frustrating!!

tino77 · 10-10-2014 8:25am

Just saw a story on the bbc website that the NI executive has agreed a £100m loan from the treasury.

I'm no economist but as David Ford says it is like taking out a second credit card when you've maxed out the first. From our point of view may be good for those in campaign 2?

Suzuka · 10-10-2014 9:15am

tino77 wrote: »

Just saw a story on the bbc website that the NI executive has agreed a £100m loan from the treasury.

I'm no economist but as David Ford says it is like taking out a second credit card when you've maxed out the first. From our point of view may be good for those in campaign 2?

I dunno I'm not holding my breath especially since this line is in the article:
the loan allows the executive to deal with urgent financial pressures in the health service, the PSNI and services for victims.

Makes me think PSNI will be under big pressure to use any extra money to bring back HET or pump more money into legacy issues

HighburyLad · 10-10-2014 2:54pm

From what I've heard campaign 2 is going ahead as planned, and there is no other plans to stop that, even without this now 30 mil they're getting or whatever it is. HET I don't think will come back, there is a lot of politicking involved here regarding budgets etc and HET and any officer can say otherwise, but I know a lot especially the old guard, didn't look upon it well within the PSNI, paying people to police and question the police is essentially the way it is looked upon by many. You could see more volunteer redundancy within the PSNI again, not the same scale as Patten but it's up in the air from what I've heard through sources, would make a lot of new room for recruits on 19k and getting rid of some of the older generation on the guts of 50k for the old guard etc, time will tell all I suppose, there is a lot of speculation from everyone in the service too, so take what you hear from people with a pinch of salt including myself because what I've heard and the same as many others is hear say.

Everyone says recruitment stops the minute budget cuts enter the equation but not trying to reassure myself or anyone on here that isn't an option now because of the moratorium on recruitment the last few years, and the fact they're facing a staffing crisis as we speak, maybe 10 years ago when there was 7600 officers they would have stopped it, the campaign for January has been shelved as the chief con has said, I reckon it will be placed under next year's budget but again time will tell all, that's what I've been told by several sources.

notbrazil · 10-10-2014 5:20pm

Suzuka wrote: »

I dunno I'm not holding my breath especially since this line is in the article:
the loan allows the executive to deal with urgent financial pressures in the health service, the PSNI and services for victims.

Makes me think PSNI will be under big pressure to use any extra money to bring back HET or pump more money into legacy issues

There's no pressure to bring back HET - in fact, it's the opposite as SF don't like it and the DUP are starting to bow to pressure from Loyalist elements who don't like their own atrocities being investigated, so are unlikely to challenge its demise.

Suzuka · 04-12-2014 5:32pm

Campaign 2 numbers are down from them looking 378 recruits to only 100. BBC News website, can't link because I'm new. Add www to start

.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30333080

DesertCreat_15 · 04-12-2014 5:56pm

Suzuka wrote: »

Campaign 2 numbers are down from them looking 378 recruits to only 100. BBC News website, can't link because I'm new. Add www to start

.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-30333080

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30333080

HighburyLad · 04-12-2014 6:02pm

Jesus, literally the odds went from favourable to flip me that's tight, all we can do is wait and see what happens in a couple of weeks ac results may be different now compared to last time, good luck everyone awaiting I have a plan b in place big time this time over thankfully but it means I won't be home but I'll do what I need to do, could be a merit list of 400 people this time round for 100 jobs so we'll see, not all is lost just tighter, good luck all.

.S. · 04-12-2014 6:22pm

I doubt I'll be in the top 100. Top 200 and might have a slim chance but... Makes bad reading for me...

Cromlech · 04-12-2014 6:26pm

.S. wrote: »

I doubt I'll be in the top 100. Top 200 and might have a slim chance but... Makes bad reading for me...

Take in to account the stages after AC with fails and no shows you are still in with a shout, it's not over untill you are told so. Just give your all to everything and even if you don't get it this time you can still walk away knowing you gave your all.

.S. · 04-12-2014 6:30pm

I won't give up on it, I'll do everything I can. But isn't pleasant reading. Esp with all the deaths on roads, apparently increased threat again this xmas. They need officers...

Cromlech · 04-12-2014 6:33pm

.S. wrote: »

I won't give up on it, I'll do everything I can. But isn't pleasant reading. Esp with all the deaths on roads, apparently increased threat again this xmas. They need officers...

Yeah, it sucks, there is a clear need for officers and there is no shortage of willing candidates here. If only they would.make cuts in other non essential areas in order to hire the required number.

pb82 · 04-12-2014 7:06pm

Cromlech wrote: »

Yeah, it sucks, there is a clear need for officers and there is no shortage of willing candidates here. If only they would.make cuts in other non essential areas in order to hire the required number.

Define non essential? They have already cut all temporary staff, cut the hours enquiry offices are open to the public.

Reading David Fords words today I'm thinking civilian jobs will be cut soon aswell ( there is already a voluntary early retirement deal on the table on the mainstream civil service) and I know there are people thrashing out something similar for the police staff. Worryingly those that are let go could end up back at desk jobs instead of on the front line.

Huge transitional period for the organisation and interesting times ahead

200WattWarlock · 04-12-2014 7:08pm

Cromlech wrote: »

Yeah, it sucks, there is a clear need for officers and there is no shortage of willing candidates here. If only they would.make cuts in other non essential areas in order to hire the required number.

And you're straight back into politics. Everybody has an agenda and a group to represent. It's just a pity that the front-line services tend to serve the same public, and all are fighting over the same budget.

Let's half the number of MLA's and use their wages, office costs and expenses instead

Rj408 · 04-12-2014 7:20pm

200WattWarlock wrote: »

And you're straight back into politics. Everybody has an agenda and a group to represent. It's just a pity that the front-line services tend to serve the same public, and all are fighting over the same budget.

Let's half the number of MLA's and use their wages, office costs and expenses instead

No doubt. 105 MLA s £48,000 a year each and £70,000 office expenses complete joke heaviest in the UK population and representation wise. This is hard reading for us in campaign two, missed the boat this time god knows how long we will have to wait.

I wonder if the top brass would take a pay cut off volunteer to retire to free up some much needed man power space. It's not like the budget is tiny in comparison to other forces, who have more officers. Overhaul of the entire system coming too if the Tory party get into power come May.

Fingers crossed for those who really want it, you can only do your best the rest is all politics. Chances getting slimmer each time I read the news ffs!!

Cromlech · 04-12-2014 7:34pm

pb82 wrote: »

Define non essential? They have already cut all temporary staff, cut the hours enquiry offices are open to the public.

Reading David Fords words today I'm thinking civilian jobs will be cut soon aswell ( there is already a voluntary early retirement deal on the table on the mainstream civil service) and I know there are people thrashing out something similar for the police staff. Worryingly those that are let go could end up back at desk jobs instead of on the front line.

Huge transitional period for the organisation and interesting times ahead

I didn't just mean within the DOJ. If every department within the executive cut back on non essential expenditures there wouldn't be the need for budget cuts and therefore the PSNI could recruit necessary numbers. As others have said and I have mentioned before, if any cuts are to be made it should be to MLA salaries.

I'm in no way interested in politics and no expert in economy but even I can see clear mismanagement of funds a Stormount. If the Northern Irish politicians actually focused on the jobs they have rather than trying to one up each other, then maybe there wouldn't be such a deficit in the funds in this country.

This is just my opinion. Obviously people will disagree, it's just I can't see where our taxes re going, when all we see are cuts to policing, healthcare and social security to name but a few.

Suzuka · 04-12-2014 7:46pm

The NI Assembly didn't lose 1p on their budget for next year

pb82 · 04-12-2014 7:49pm

Suzuka wrote: »

The NI Assembly didn't lose 1p on their budget for next year

Corrupt to the core

Policing Budget Chit Chat

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