Shane Lowry - 2019 Champion Golfer of The Year (note first post please for posting guidance)

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Once a bully - always a bully.

Seen it in school .

I think there should be a rule on here about talking about a golfers weight - you can't even talk about gambling. Yet you can give Ireland's leading pro stick over his weight.

Maybe - Shane is a so called outlier - Like Ian Woosnam - I bet Ian - had to hear you are too short, all his life - **** them anyway Ian - as he stuck on a green jacket.

Nobody is bullying Shane over his weight. People are just remarking about how good a player he is now but how he could be one of the greats if he was fitter than he is now. If he was fitter he would have improved mobility, flexibility, stamina, endurance and concentration. This would only improve his game even further.

gordongekko wrote: »

Nobody is bullying Shane over his weight. People are just remarking about how good a player he is now but how he could be one of the greats if he was fitter than he is now. If he was fitter he would have improved mobility, flexibility, stamina, endurance and concentration. This would only improve his game even further.

Sorry somebody was going on about dress sizes - post could be deleted the way things work here.

Yes there maybe genuine posters about his weight - but others are using it to get a dig at him.

Like the nationality Issue - maybe a rule that stops it - extreme as it is, prevents it coming into - what has been another great week.

I think some people are watching Ireland's fittest family too much - clearly Shane has all the attributes required to be a top golfer. He is.

The other problem here is - that it will not be let go - you will have 10 pages of too and fro and this issue will be what the Shane Lowry thread will be about.

If I'm being 100 % honest - I think people slag Shane because he is not from the traditional set - and this is his biggest battle.

Keep it up Shane - "Don't let the bastards grind you down".

GreeBo wrote: »

So why is Petterson's loss of form tied to his weight and yet no one elses is?

Golf is a sport, I dont think its stretching much to say that the stronger and fitter you are the better chance you have of performing well in a sport that requires strength and fitness. I dont think arguing that Caroline had an impact of Rory's performance is anyway similar to a persons fitness levels.



I dont think anyone ever said you did?

See.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Sorry somebody was going on about dress sizes - post could be deleted the way things work here.

Yes there maybe genuine posters about his weight - but others are using it to get a dig at him.

If you have an issue with "the way things are done here" then follow the proper channels, firing random pot-shots or personal accusations is not acceptable, end of.

First Up wrote: »

I think he is now ready to look at moving into the elite level but it is not an incremental progression. He has shown he has the talent and the temperament at a certain level but he has yet to be tested in real pressure situations against the best.
I'm happy to see he is looking increasingly serious - especially off the course. I know it is a crude indicator but a reduction of another 3-4 dress sizes would be a great start.

To be honest, I think Shane is one of a kind. He's clearly immensely talented. He comes across as being a bit more rounded (no pun intended) than your average pro golfer and I think it's great that he hasn't lost the run of himself and started becoming all po-faced and intensely serious about everything. In many ways, he's a breath of fresh air.

Does that mean he doesn't take the game seriously? I don't think so. You have only to look at his face when he misses a putt or hits an errant shot to know that he is very serious about playing well. Could he bit fitter than he is and would this improve his game? Maybe, but I don't think he has a serious fitness problem (as far as I can tell from observing his play) and building more lean muscle mass might improve his length off the tee, but how would it affect his incredible touch around the greens? And just because getting fitter and leaner seems to have helped Tiger and others, it doesn't automatically follow that it will benefit everybody.

I think Shane is well on course to get into the top 50 in the world rankings, with all that entails in terms of eligibility for key tournaments. I think he has the game to contend at the top level and look forward to seeing him do so over the next several years.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But Tiger is in bits now. Knee back.

Monty is winning on Senior tour as did Christy O'Connor

Suppose I'll have to check back here in 30 years so.

abff wrote: »

To be honest, I think Shane is one of a kind. He's clearly immensely talented. He comes across as being a bit more rounded (no pun intended) than your average pro golfer and I think it's great that he hasn't lost the run of himself and started becoming all po-faced and intensely serious about everything. In many ways, he's a breath of fresh air.

Does that mean he doesn't take the game seriously? I don't think so. You have only to look at his face when he misses a putt or hits an errant shot to know that he is very serious about playing well. Could he bit fitter than he is and would this improve his game? Maybe, but I don't think he has a serious fitness problem (as far as I can tell from observing his play) and building more lean muscle mass might improve his length off the tee, but how would it affect his incredible touch around the greens? And just because getting fitter and leaner seems to have helped Tiger and others, it doesn't automatically follow that it will benefit everybody.

I think Shane is well on course to get into the top 50 in the world rankings, with all that entails in terms of eligibility for key tournaments. I think he has the game to contend at the top level and look forward to seeing him do so over the next several years.

As he is at number 53 now, the Top 50 should not be the height of his ambition. What we (well, me anyway) are trying to discuss here is what - if anything - he could do that would help move him a few rungs higher even than that.

I think there has been a significant change in his expectations of himself and therefore of his dedication over the last while. I think he has gone from enjoying the fruits of his talent, while still having the craic to seeing himself as someone who could really scale the heights. And it is starting to show.

I've been making the point that the weight thing might be more a symptom than a cause. Late last year, I criticised him for failing to notice he had damaged his putter until he was about to start his round the next day, This after he had three putted the 18th but had clearly not thought it worthwhile to spend even a few minutes on the practice green to review what he might learn from it. Its only a guess on my part but maybe, just maybe that incident was embarrassing and revealing enough to give him the kick up the arse he needed.

First Up wrote: »

As he is at number 53 now, the Top 50 should not be the height of his ambition. What we (well, me anyway) are trying to discuss here is what - if anything - he could do that would help move him a few rungs higher even than that.

I think there has been a significant change in his expectations of himself and therefore of his dedication over the last while. I think he has gone from enjoying the fruits of his talent, while still having the craic to seeing himself as someone who could really scale the heights. And it is starting to show.

I've been making the point that the weight thing might be more a symptom than a cause. Late last year, I criticised him for failing to notice he had damaged his putter until he was about to start his round the next day, This after he had three putted the 18th but had clearly not thought it worthwhile to spend even a few minutes on the practice green to review what he might learn from it. Its only a guess on my part but maybe, just maybe that incident was embarrassing and revealing enough to give him the kick up the arse he needed.

What are your expectations for him First Up?
They seem extremely high and you seem extremely critical of him for the most part.
You slated him at the start of the year, went fairly quite we he hit form, then came back with a bang to make a joke of his pairing for the US Open.
It hasn't all been negative but I'd be interested to see what will turn the tables for you?

Your expectations seem to be a lot higher than mine.
For me, if he becomes a solid top 50 player that picks up a few wins along the way and who can challenge for the odd Ryder Cup on a good year then I think that would be a successful career.
I say that as I can't see him making the move to the US and that will limit his chances to get into Top 25 with any consistency.

I do think he still can and will apply himself better as you suggest but I'd give him credit for learning for a few mistakes which I think he has. That said, I'm sure we'll hear about a few night out over the winter and fair play to him if so imo.


****

Linking the turnaround to that incident with the putter is a bit much imo.
Because months and months after that incident you still claimed something like "as soon as he starts taking himself seriously, I will".
I remember it as I think it was in reply to a post I made that there was too much panic about his form on the thread and that he'd turn it around on the European Leg of the tour as that's where I see him being most comfortable.
The putter incident was about 4 or 5 months before you still thought he wasn't taking himself seriously.

Anybody who's been following Lowry over the last few years must have noticed that he is clearly much fitter and trimmer this year than previously. Clearly he is working on his fitness so I'm not sure what more people want from him. A gradual process is the best way to do this, particularly given that there is the mechanics of a swing involved as well.

I would argue that he is in the best and most consistent run of form in his career so far, with high finishes in a lot of quality tournaments while also obviously working on his conditioning, rocking a great beard and maintaining his affable personality. I'm struggling to see why, given all of this, that his weight remains a main point of discussion in this thread.

SSK wrote: »

Anybody who's been following Lowry over the last few years must have noticed that he is clearly much fitter and trimmer this year than previously. Clearly he is working on his fitness so I'm not sure what more people want from him. A gradual process is the best way to do this, particularly given that there is the mechanics of a swing involved as well.

So why the outcry when people suggest that he has more to lose?
Some are suggesting that he doesn't need to lose any more weight abd that if he did his game would disappear.
I think it's fair to say the improvement in fitness can only have helped his game, so he should keep going. The backlash and ridiculous claims of bullying are just silly. I haven't seen a single negative post towards Shane or anyone not wishing him well, are we so precious that we can't accept any constructive criticism? Shane certainly isn't so why aspects of this thread feel the need to be is beyond me.

GreeBo wrote: »

So why the outcry when people suggest that he has more to lose?
Some are suggesting that he doesn't need to lose any more weight abd that if he did his game would disappear.
I think it's fair to say the improvement in fitness can only have helped his game, so he should keep going. The backlash and ridiculous claims of bullying are just silly. I haven't seen a single negative post towards Shane or anyone not wishing him well, are we so precious that we can't accept any constructive criticism? Shane certainly isn't so why aspects of this thread feel the need to be is beyond me.

How on earth do you know how Shane feels about this - it is not even just about Shane - it is the principle.

And GreeBo - If you want to ban me on an issue of principle - I'm fine with that.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I've asked for this issue to be off bounds with mods and Cmods.
We will see if this is possible.

I expect the overwhelming majority agree it is out of order.
So hopefully we get a result.

SSK - How can we/ I progress this

Sorry I'm not necessarily in agreement that this constitutes bullying. As Greebo has said, I don't think any of the posts are of an abusive nature. The main point I was making was that I feel it's a redundant argument given the strides he is making and the work he is clearly already putting in.

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Well it is an area we would want to be pretty sure about . In all walks of life I have been in (I've been around) - a person's weight was always a way of bullying.

I've also trained in this area over many years - have seen cases develop.

So if your not in agreement - the mod here is actively involved in this discussion. The majority of golf forum contributors are not happy with aspects of this thread and cards.

Where do we go next ? Could you or Greebo help me with this ?

Report any posts you find offensive and PM the mods if you have more specific concerns.

SSK wrote: »

The main point I was making is that he's quite clearly working on it and it's quite clearly bringing results so we're essentially in agreement. I certainly don't have an issue with constructive criticism but I don't see the point of it with regards to his weight when it's obvious to pretty much everyone that it is something he is focusing on.

There is anecdotal evidence out there to suggest that dramatic weight loss can impact on your swing so it's not something that can be completely dismissed. Which is why I'm happy to see him take a more measured approach in improving his conditioning, even if it would appear that dropping a lot of kg in a short space of time may be a route that some would prefer him to take.

I agree with all of this, which is why I dont understand the response that says "he doesnt need to do anything"
He does and clearly he is already on the road to addressing this, he has already lost a fair amount of weight. There is more to lose though (not saying that he isn't trying to lose it, at whatever speed he thinks is appropriate to maintaining his game)